Notably (or not so notably) absent from
this week's mobile announcements out of Adobe's Flash camp is the iPhone, a platform that many want to see pick up official Flash support for a number of totally valid reasons -- but realistically, the gap between Adobe's stance and Apple's stance on the subject seems no closer
than it did in 2007. The solution? Let developers make Flash apps for the iPhone and convert 'em over to native code prior to submission to the App Store. Of course, this effectively means that there's nothing "Flash app" about these Flash apps, but if nothing else, it lets devs apply their existing knowledge and code libraries in a way that'll make Apple happy and get real, native apps out to users without the muss and fuss of a manual port. The apps look pretty cheesy compared to most purpose-suited iPhone apps, but skeptics should note that there are already 8 apps live in the App Store that were compiled this way -- Adobe boasts that it's a 100 percent acceptance rate so far -- and the Flash CS5 dev environment required to make it happen should be available as a public beta "later this year." Pretty cool, but no, seriously... how about real Flash, Apple?
posted Oct 5th 2009 6:01PM
So instead of letting the Iphone users go to the website to play a flashgame. They have to wait until it's ported over through this software to the appstore?
Wow talk about jumping through hoops...
More bullshit from the control freaks at Apple.
Flash is old school. Native app is the way to go my friend. Native, Native, Native!
@Sacapone - yeah cause playing free games online is "old school" and paying apple $$$ is the "new hip thing to do"
yuriythebest@
You won't be able to count the free game apps available for iPhone!
@yuriythebest
The Developer who creates the App is the one who sets the price of the App. NOT Apple.
Developer gets 70%. Apple gets 30%.
You're paying the Developer for their work. Not Apple.
You certainly wont be able to watch any streaming videos about them.
stop getting so mad at apple. They make a great product and just because some people buy it because it's hip (which it is) doesn't mean they make straight crap.
I don't own an iPhone but it doesn't mean I have to hate it. and what they've done as far commercializing Native apps and FREE native apps is great and is going to change the mobile industry. That's just basic. Yeah it sucks it doesn't have flash, but I'm sure they have their reasons. I mean, the first iPhone lacked flash before "apps" were popular anyway and there's tons of internet "iPhone playable non-flash" games. there's no "controlling" going on. You guys sound like those conspiracy theorists from September 11th
So much for "moving to the cloud", looks like native apps are the future for everything, which is how it's always been.
Safari NEEDS a Flash plug-in. Remember how much we kicked and screamed about copy and paste? And Apple finally did it, it's no different here, voice your opinion, they'll listen, some day...
Wow, Apple gets bashed for being "proprietary" every day by the haters here on Engadget. Now people are bashing Apple for not supporting proprietary code like Flash. They just can't win with you whiny bitches.
The sooner we get rid of flash/silverlight and other propriatry plugs the better.
The move to open standards the better for everyone, consumers and developers.
@ale
I don't hate the iPhone - it's a nice device - but I do hate the horrible monolithic corporation Apple have become and the way the tech press still largely give them a free pass.
What's your bet that the next iPhone OS update breaks Flash apps?
they did it for the lulz
Does this mean that if you can code in Flash you can make an iPhone app without a Macintosh?
Yes
"What operating systems are supported for authoring iPhone content using Flash?
iPhone application development will be supported on operating systems supported by Adobe Flash Professional CS5. This includes both Mac and Windows based operating systems."
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Applications_for_iPhone (search for "Windows")
Apple if is going to put flash on their devices, it would be better than other device like they did with copy, paste, fm radio. From my perspective they just don't like throwing features at a device just for the device to have them. But since they are smart, Im looking forward to see what they do with flash on a device like the Iphone or a Itablet or whatever.
wince when did the iPhone have a radio?
damnit, since
The ipod nano has a fm radio with live pause.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ipod+nano+live+pause
so does the zune hd and the zune hd has hd radio just saying - and i also don't think that apple did copy and paste better than every other device on the market, considering it took them two years.
Good points, but they did make fast and use-able Mobile Browsing on Cell phones a standard for smart phone or was Opera better .
@asoccer345 no no, you are missing the point. even if something existed for years in competing products, when it eventually turns up in an Apple, Inc product, that means apple invented it! they are so innovative!
"From my perspective they just don't like throwing features at a device just for the device to have them."
That sucks. Why not?
Maybe its already a great gaming device?
funny boy
This is a legitimate question. Why won't Apple allow flash on the iPhone again? Or is it Adobe not allowing it? or is it just no compatible? I' m lost.
Flash on the iPhone requires the deaths of baby kittens for it to work. Steve is just thinking of the baby kittens...
Or maybe something about battery life, I don't know.
One time in another article on here, someone in the comments, I dont remember who said something that made sense. Basically he said that since flash is available for free on the internet every where , people wouldnt buy as many apps from the App store if they had access to use them. There are also alot of flash applications the mimic current functions of the Iphone and Apple or At&t dont want their users to get confused.
Flash allows code not approved by Apple to run. If it was available to the iPhone OS I could potentially write a Flash app that did something AT&T would not like.
ACTUALLY-
It is due to the way in which the iphone is engineered and the way that flash works. Apple won't let anything out of it's tied down, crippled, security sandbox. Flash needs access to some system resources the apple will not give up.
So, the iphone will NEVER be able to run flash unless apple loosens their sphincter a bit. This is also part of the reason cut and paste took so long and you'll have a long time waiting for multi tasking.
haha, I said sphincter :)
Writing a FLASH app that did something AT&T wouldnt like is pretty hard, unless yoy start throwing insults. Flash is pretty limited with network.
What this is all about is forcing every program to be bought from appshop. Even C64 Basic interpretor was nerfed, as if somebody would bother to do some serious programs with C64 basic.
There are tons of pretty good flash games and apps. Apple just tries to put bulletproof vest on their cashcow app shop.
there are a bunch of websites with games in flash. Nintendo Wii users often just log on and start playing the games.
seeing how this could potentially detract users away from the app store.... flash will never ever be allowed.
Then how do you explain how Apple still continues to promote web apps (though non-flash web apps, of course) on its site?
I suspect Apple is using the iPhone platform's dominance in mobile usage as a means to promote open standards that can compete with Flash such as HTML5, WebGL, etc. This would be very good for all mobile devices to follow an open standard instead of praying Adobe will decide to support your platform and, more importantly perhaps, keep your Flash build up to date. Flash is one of the biggest security problems out there these days. It's performance on both Linux and OSX is subpar. Is there any reason to believe mobile versions will be better? Think about it, the whole Internet is more or less build on open standards except Flash which is increasingly becoming the only way to interact with multimedia on the Internet. That is not a good situation for users. Apple surely has other reasons here too not the least of which being the other areas where Adobe and Apple compete head to head (pro apps) and Apple's potential 30% revenue stream that could be undercut with freely accessible Flash games
Why don't you guys stop with the stupid fanboy BS. Apple doesn't like Flash because it's a PROPRIETARY code made by an another company. Flash is also the bane of the internet and badly coded for OS X. I am sick of listening to all these idiots that criticize Apple for not supporting "openness," but then turn around and bash them for not supporting something as closed as Flash.
The internet is supposed to be devoid of proprietary crap like Flash, in case you guys forgot.
I am begining to hate my iPhones (Qty:3)
instead of being a cool hip device it is now a glorified Douch gadget.
Only on here, people still tend to gawp at mine (3G). I'm not saying it's perfect by any means, but outside of this tech bubble it's still very well respected, and still "cool". e.g. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/28/coolbrands_2009/
There's nothing worse than someone using an out-of-context not-really-applicable derogatory term.
Except when they spell it incorrectly, furthering the notion that they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.
It's "douche" you douche.
@Poop
So.... why did you buy 3 of 'em? Going to buy something different the next time? ;)
I would guess that the reason Apple doesn't allow flash for the iPhone is that developers would just create websites and not apps. The app store would probably not be as successful if Apple allowed flash for the iPhone. Just my guess.
Serge Jespers wrote (in a very euphoric way) about this:
http://www.webkitchen.be/2009/10/05/its-a-great-time-to-be-a-flash-platform-developer/
And there is a Video too showing Flash-Apps on the iPhone by Adrian Ludwig (Adobe Systems, Inc.) who made the Palm Pre Video too:
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashcs5/appsfor_iphone/
The main statement for me in the video was:
“We doint have a Browser-Plugin. Flash-Player 10.1 isnt available.”
Nice move Apple… *rolleyes
THE REASON APPLE DOESN'T ALLOW FLASH IS:
**DRUMROLL**
If they allow Flash, There will be no more App Store supremacy!!!!
**Exit DRUMROLL**
That drumroll didn't really bring the crescendo you usually get with a drumroll, dude. Plus, nice name.
Urgh....
That is so missing the point. I think you stuck it through the drum.
Short memories you mob, recall the tantrums over webapps; there's security issues with self downloading interpreted code; there's adobe extracting a fee per unit; there's the 'flash lite' is lame and flash is too heavy comment from Jobs (fair comment).
Then there's the simpler truth, that Flash is a locked up cruddy format that HTML 5 stomps. Apple is backing HTML 5.0 which is open and does vid/snd/vector etc.
Time will tell if Apples HTML 5 or nothing approach will win the day and free media on the net, Google seems supportive in their own actions like Chrome and Wave and I suspect OS
either that or jobs will have the spinning monkeys invent a script for him to say, introducing the -coolness- of flash on iPhone.
If it comes, it will be baked in by Apple.
"how about real Flash, Apple?"
Seriously, Chris? How about instead of Flash, you just ask for an app that arbitrarily eats up 75-85% of all available processing power and causes apps to quit randomly. I mean it's the same thing, why not?
PROTIP: Flash sucks. You're welcome.
I don't want Flash anywhere near my phone. Flash on my phone means FLASH ADS on my phone, so I'm perfectly happy with Apple's decision.
Maybe you shouldn't use email on your phone either cause of the spam... maybe you shouldn't use your phone either because of all the crank calls.. dumbass!
Because, you know, the iPhone is completely ad-free now.
It's IMPOSSIBLE to ignore them! And it's not like it's possible to block all the Flash sites except the ones you want... oh wait.
Spam gets filtered at the server. Flash ads don't. Flash ads are also considerably more annoying than any ads I've ever seen on my iPhone.
Here's an idea: how about disabling Flash by default and turning it on when you want to use it?
This is something you can do with any browser.
That way for people like you, who don't want flash, nothing has changed and for people who DO want it, they can have it. It's really simple. So Flash ads are really no excuse not to have Flash.
I hate flash with a passion. The majority of flash content on the web is ads. I hate it.
Saying you hate Flash because most of content is bad is like saying you hate paper because your junk-mail all comes printed on paper.
Good point Yanni. People are really ignorant when it comes to Flash. It's interactive vector animation. I love it. Most people only know flash from Youtube.
Well, how about the millions of shity apps available to the iPhone? I guess you hate the App store too.
Wait, now how can you play some games on the iPhone. That's right flash.
Now just write this on the sides of a paper and you'll get hours of fun! Its a feature!
While I don't agree with Apple's jackassedness I wholeheartedly want flash to die a quick but excruciatingly painful death.
Very yes.
Nice to see Adobe finally figured out how to make Flash not suck!
Those apps are listed and a partial demo is shown here:
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashcs5/appsfor_iphone/
Don't tease us, Engadget. How bout a list of said App Store apps compiled in Flash? I am most curious to see what can be done...
http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2009/10/use_flash_to_build_native_iphone_apps.html
To all the Flash Haters out there, are you telling me that you don't get flash with almost all the current free iphone apps. Yeah! That's what I thought too.
This is a good thing for every Flash developer out there (especially the ones who made games and want to convert it for iPhone users). But still, Apple NEED TO HAVE FLASH on the iphone soon or I'll..... haha jk.
This is Huge. I've been developing software both in Actionscript 3 for Flash and in Objective-C for iPhone. Based on that experience, I am sure this move will open up iPhone development to *many* developers who have looked into writing an iPhone app but gave up along the way because it's such a pain.
A developer experienced in both platforms can write the same application for in Flash in a fraction of the time it takes to do so with Xcode and Objective-C. That's why this is so significant.
So wait... yesterday there was an announcement that Flash is coming to all smartphones... except the iPhone.
So why is the iPhone "bad" because it doesn't have flash right now. None of them do, right?
We S60 and WinMo users already have full flash on our phones.
Skyfire. Look it up.
Oh cool!
And it's awesome?
Yep.
Awesommer when you see the green tinge of envy on the face of those who can't have it.
Does this mean I can get freeking Monkey Kick Off on my iPhone? I'm so jealous of Android for that one app.
As a Flash developer, I would love to see this functionality on Android. I've wanted to build a couple of simple native Android Applications but don't have any experience at all with Java nor do I have a ton of time to learn it. If I could use my Flash skills to crank out some apps on the Android platform and put them into the market then I'd be extremely happy.
Calling this "a solution" is either a flat out lie, or an indication that the speaker doesn't undersand the problem.
This is interesting from a technical standpoint, but otherwise completely meaningless to end-users. They don't care what development environment was used to create an app. They just want it to work properly.
And this does absolutely nothing to address the real issue of Flash in the browser. That's what users really care about.
Perhaps the one way in which this relates to the actual problem is that it goes another step or two towards demonstrating that Apple's statements about the reason behind the lack of Flash being at least partially performance related are just a smokescreen for the real reason: they don't want an uncontrolled means of code getting into their hardware.
@Michael Scrip
Dunno about other platforms, but there is a version of Flash for Windows mobile.
Great... a whole wave of apps with craptacular flash-like interfaces (see South Park app above)
Huzzah!
I happen to consider Flash the norm, and I'm talking about graphics and vector images and movies. I like using flash, as well as developing for it.
Does Apple and Microsoft want to get rid of Flash? I know it takes a bit of processor power to run any Flash script or file, but a lot of people are dependent on Flash right now.
Also, can anyone provide me with info on HTML 5? Thanks.
Can we all please stop lamenting Flash's absence from the iPhone? Flash is antiquated, proprietary and bloated. HTML 5 can do everything it does and better. Why would Apple yield to a 3rd party for something they don't need, and have to constantly update it at the mercy of Adobe to ensure it doesn't break? Flash isn't even worth having at the desktop without ADblock and FlashBlock, why would you put your phone through the extra wait when you need something fast?