Cheap netbook sales bringing down laptop revenues, no brainers require no brains
By Laura June 
posted Oct 11th 2009 7:21AM
posted Oct 11th 2009 7:21AM
Please note: If you're a current Engadget commenter, you do not need to re-register. Simply login and you will be prompted to select a username.
In other news... The sky is blue at 7:27am
The forecast is partly sunny with an 80% chance of a race to the bottom.
I believe most netbooks are purchased as supplemental computers... ie, you buy one because "hey it's cheap" and "it's small and I can throw it in my suitcase for the weekend." My girlfriend want a netbook for these very reasons... mainly to travel with and dump memory cards from our digital cameras on weekend trips. But she will still use her 15" laptop at home. And I'll still use my Quad-Core desktop.
I doubt many people are buying netbooks as their primary machine. If they do... it will be interesting to see if they buy another netbook to replace this one in a couple years... or if they will tire of it and switch back to a regular laptop.
Netbooks have their place... and I'm glad they exist... but 10" screens are too small for an everyday machine.
Yeah, hooray for those that like under-powered crap and they deserve what they get. Junk=inexpensive
Like this comes as some revelation to anyone that has any sort of business sense. Netbooks are so-so bargains for the growing number of cheapsters, extremely bad news for traditional PC manufacturers. Not even that useful a deal for Microsoft Windows OS or MS Office sales. Hardly that great a deal for Intel spitting out millions of crappy Atom processors when its profit-making quad-cores are being sold by the dozens. No skin off my back when revenues continue to plummet for HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc. Analysts and asshats with their know nothing mentalities saying Apple should join in the race to the bottom with the foolish bottom feeders trying to build crap computers selling for nearly below manufacturing costs. We'll see how well this scheme pans out in another year for struggling PC vendors.
Why the heck everyone is so happy about buying an equivalent of a computer they had five years ago is hard to understand. Yeah, they're smaller and lighter and that's about it. Two years ago, normal notebook users would have said they were underpowered. People should just work out a little bit more and buy a used Intel dual-core notebook if they can't afford a new one.
I can't really fault some people for buying netbooks because most don't know any better, but some of these computer companies can't see past their short noses to know that building dirt cheap netbooks has almost no future at all for most of the PC industry. Don't they have any decent accountants to tell them such an obvious fact. Those companies must live in some sort of business acumen vacuum.
I can picture Ballmer dancing around yelling how Windows is building huge market share by flooding the market with crappy, underpowered Windows netbooks. They're crushing Apple by stealing their market share. Yeah, and getting zero profits for every gained tenth of a percent.
Quantum, my first computer cost over $2,000, refurbished, had an old Pentium 1 (no MMX) 150MHz, 16MB of EDO SIMMs, a 3GB HDD and a 2X CD reader.
I'm glad computers are a hell of a lot cheaper now.
Bonus: It had a 28.8k ISA modem, that thing was bigger than most high-end graphics cards are today.
@Average White Boy
Even if being "smaller and lighter" was all there is to it, for many that's pretty darn significant in and of itself.
People die when they are killed.
In about 5 years, I hope we'll see sub $100 laptops touchscreen that can display full 1080p video 60fps.
You know what? We need a Manhattan project for battery technology. It's holding a lot of things up. I notice my netbook is really light without the battery.
Actually, progress is being made. Our new 15" MacBook Pro 2.53Ghz edition runs for at least 5 hours and is no heavier than earlier models. There are also some interesting developments from Toshiba. And don't neglect the excellent Samsung NC10 whose supplied battery also lasts 5 hours or more. What society and the industry should be doing is installing solar top up / charging stations across the world using industry standards, such as Micro USB as featured in the latest mobile phones and the forthcoming Light Peak - if it includes power.
If the windows in each Starbucks could be retrofitted with some of the new glass solar cell technology being developed, just think of the energy savings if the grid was removed from the equation for our mobile gadgets. Anyway, I diversify!
A Manhattan Project sized solar energy effort is required to ween us off oil and all it's nefarious side effects. (War, pollution etc.)
Ofline: i'm pretty sure light peak can only transmit data due to the fact that it is in fact light, usb 3.0 or 3.0 micro would definitely suffice though
I doubt the battery is much better- only a more efficient processor is packed in.
Light peak has been rumored to have copper wires along with the other stuff, perfect for charging phones.
Hmm, I never thought about LightPeak not being able to transmit power. Huge failure for LightPeak right there if it can't.
I too would like to see cheap touchscreen computers, the only problem is it needs to be standardized into the OS. None of this HP touch program or Dell touch crap. The way the user intearcts with the interface needs to be standard all around. Sort of like how a mouse is a mouse, anybody who has ever used one knows how to use any of them.
@Jordan
It's called Windows 7.
The problem with that is even though Windows 7 has multi-touch support, HP is already beginning to load their versions of touch crap software onto computers. I'm sure Dell will soon follow, followed by others, and the next thing you know we've got 500 different kinds of touch software suites and no ubiquity.
I can imagine a panic created by a recall of nuclear batteries for laptops due to possibility of nuclear explosion... of a laptop battery.
Hooray? Not for those of us who wouldn't touch a netbook with a bargepole. Unlike apparently many who couldn't afford one the first time around, I'm in no hurry to revisit a machine I had 6+ years ago.
You make it sound as though netbooks were actually a threat to your computing preferences. And yet it's not manufacturers are just going to stop making "normal" laptops at any point in the perceivable future.
What kind of drugs are you on? Netbooks bringing down the overall price means you get whatever fast laptop you want for cheaper too since they have to compete by making other notebooks faster and cheaper to stop people from going with a netbook. It's not like anybody is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy a netbook, so you're just whining about lower prices? Feel free to buy a notebook then just mail me the extra cash then. Or buy a Macbook Pro (same thing except Steve Jobs gets the cash).
No, he would rather buy Steve Jobs "netbook that's not called a netbook because Steve Jobs says so so they're calling it an e-book" that is underpowered and overpriced.
You see, this is the problem.
The low-end isn't actually moving faster. It's just that what we had 5+ years back which cost $2,000 and up is finally within the pocketbooks of people who don't really know what they're buying in the first place, but would have benefitted from the mobility that those of us who were (and are) regularly in the habit of spending several thousand on a laptop have had.
The problem is that the popularity of these machines have caused many manufacturers to take their eye off the high-end ball. Instead of dramatically upping the ante as you claim the4thheat, Sony has for example cancelled the rather disappointing TT (which managed to be fatter and less well-made than the preceding TZ) and their latest work is merely a supremely thinned-out netbook at budget prices. And the idea of high-end machines for makers these days seems to be high-end from the viewpoint of a netbook owner.
And that is an issue for people like me. I am nonplussed that the most compelling machines in my view at the moment are the Crapbook Air and the Toshiba R600 - both of which I own among others - the former for style, and the latter for technological prowess. The Envy 133, the only machine to seriously pique my interest last year, was essentially stillborn too late. Dell's Adamo - which I also own - is too heavy for what it is despite being a styling feat for Round Rock because they tried to ape the flawed manufacturing method that Apple employs and try and build a Windows-style ultraportable from that, and their new addition also seems to be Atom-based.
What I would like to see is as much development in the niches I've been playing for years, and not to be increasingly funnelled to machines which have (too) much in common with hardware that I've used several years back.
The X and Z are thinned out netbooks now, lol. Whatever, if you really want you're still free to go buy a TT as an import and there's plenty of other high end notebooks like the Toshiba Dynabook SS RX2. The high end ultra-portable market is better than ever-the battery life in particular have improved a ton over the last few years and I've used the old-school super expensive Sony ultraportables myself, which frankly were overpriced and just too delicate.
And there are plenty of improvements to more expensive mid-range laptops that are honestly competitive with $3000 ultraportables from a year ago. Frankly the only thing holding back the super-high-end is the fact that the improvements are limited by physics at this point-people want battery life at least as good as netbooks since they're paying 10x the money, and the RX2 is already 1.88pounds and comes with a burner-it ain't gonna get much better. Physics also limits the ability to get rid of heat in such a small notebook so any CPU power innovations are just waiting on intel.
Also fitting more expensive laptops with only slightly better graphics cards gives people no reason to go for a fully blown laptop anymore.
When there's about £100 difference between the top of the range netbook, and the best of budget notebooks... I'm surprised to see them selling here in the UK where those 100 notes guarantee (bare minimum) twice the processer, twice the RAM, twice the battery and twice the connectivity.
Yes, they're cute and super mobile, but I don't believe that netbooks are cheap enough for anyone with more sense than money. That 100 quid excess ends up going quite a long way towards a product that offers far greater value for money.
Every one I know who has a netbook does not use it for a primary computer so they are not looking for something with lots of grunt. You have already given two good reasons why people choose them over a laptop: super mobile + £100 cheaper.
Now, I would agree with your argument if they were deciding between a netbook and fully featured laptop as a primary computer.
As a second computer, it is the mobility that makes all the difference in the world. They'll be even better when they have an instant-on OS.
+twice the bulk, twice the weight, and less than a third of the battery. (2 hours vs 7) and a brand name youve never heard of. plus the dubius build quality of cheap end laptops.
if your commuting to work everyday using 2 wheels, public transport or walking you dont wanna be carrying 5 kilo 15 inch laptop with you. these things can dissapear into a shoulder bag along with your other stuff instead of cramming your other stuff in around a 15inch laptop.
if your planning on stopping off to do some quick surfing you dont want to have to walk around looking for a table to plonk a 15inch laptop on when you can have a netbook on your lap quite comfortably.
these things are perfect for use on trains, lectures, anywhere where you cant pop up a full size laptop. i could take a netbook to uni with me and still have charge when i get home in the evening, whereas my laptop needs a plug socket after a 2 hour lecture. no use if i have another one striaght after. it just cant handle 4 hours of lecture (neither can i lol)
if i bought a £1,400 gaming laptop weighing 8 kilos i wouldnt want to take it to uni with me, id get a cheap, convinient word processing computer, aka, a notebook. or if i only had a desktop but needed to take a laptop for uni each day i wouldnt buy one the same spec as my desktop because i dont need 2 high spec computers, id get a netbook for the convinience factor and use my desktop for power.
Put me in the category of people who won't touch one. I like thinking of a computer as a serious investment, although I think it's great to open up the portable market. (And $300+, while cheap for a computer, still isn't cheap by "cheap" standards.)
I love my sweet MacBook but want me some sexy MacBook Pro next time around. I'm looking for speed, memory, and space. Not to mention the OS.... And I don't want a screen any smaller, or to lose my spacious hunky keyboard. I type hard. I'd probably flip a netbook right out of my lap.
If I want to use something smaller, that's my cell phone.
Ok, Steve Jobs
People keep forgetting when they argue the money is better spent on a laptop that many people like myself purchased a netbook for the size and portability. It cost me $395 for the 1000HE with 2gb ram and I use 4gb readyboost in Windows 7. For what I do, which is browse the web, listen to music, watch movies, and play a bit of FEAR/Far Cry this purchase was perfect. I've brought it on trips with me across the US and it's ideal for the lap and the person sitting next to me.
But can it play Crysis?
Okay..we're talking apples and oranges here (pun intended). Where is the threat? Sounds like people are worried that the lap top is a dinosaur or something. And "jaejbear'...as long as you like to look at your computer as a major investment....it will continue to be ...a major investment. No one can cheat you out of that. I think they appeal to a slice of the market is all. kudos
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=puns
DOH! that all that has to be said..!
SO people are buying what they want instead of just what's offered.
Stop your bitchin' and take the hint, computer industry.
To be honest, netbooks are what the computer industry should have focused on 10 years ago, before the first Eee pc, you simply couldn't really buy a brand new laptop with a screen size of less than 10 inches for under £600.
For those people who need all the power of a full desktop pc on their laptop, the netbook market poses no threat to that segment, but the vast majority of people who want an ultralight (less than 12 inches) pc will not want it as their main computer, so a pc with reduced performance but increased battery life and vastly reduced cost is perfect. As mentioned in loads of posts before, they never should have given 'Netbooks' a special name, cos all they are is ultra portable pc's that are £800 cheaper than their Sony TZ / JVC Mininote predecessors.
My only annoyance with the netbook scene is that microsoft is imposing such restrictions on hardware, it really seems completely crazy unneccisarily cripple a windows device so as not to damage the sales of other windows devices... that makes no sense.
Will Netbooks damage the industry? hell no, and those manufacturers who arn't making netbooks deserve to loose out because they didn't spot an awesome market potential that has been around since integrated WIFI first made an appearance.
Sales can't hurt the industry, only bring down profit margins. If that's what consumers want, that's what the industry will have to adapt to.
I have a core i7 desktop, with 6 gb of ram and a pretty good (not great hd4850) running inside. I have an asus 901 as well. Guess which one I end up using more. The NETBOOK. Stop being stuck up elitists and stop insulting the intelligence of people that like small form factors that can generally handle 90% of THEIR computing needs with surprising efficiency. No one is going to pull your precious laptop from you so get a grip,
strider_mtsk is correct. It is about teh market place and supply and demand.
Computers may be a major investment, but so were TVs once. Does that mean buying a $300 is wrong? I have an S-10. It does everything I want. I got an external monitor. I am not running simulations of the weather system so I do not need the Cray-Book.
With the same money i can buy a laptop (some people like to call these netbooks) with for REAL portability capabilities (8h battery anyone? 'cause that's the normal number of working hours; not 2, or 3, or 5...) and a gaming desktop that will run every game with max settings.
So why should i go for a laptop again since it's gonna cost me as much and wont do any of those things right?
Of 'course the nVIDIA ION is really welcome, it's awesome to be able to use the laptop as a partial media center too and display 1080p video but I'd be willing to pay the 30~50$ more that nVIDIA says a computer with the chip is worth and still be within the price of a laptop with a "decent graphics" card that wont even get to the feet of a real desktop GPU.
"hooray for all of us, right?!"
Yes, hooray for sub standard resolutions, hooray for small and useless displays, hooray for underpowered cpu's, hooray for the weekend; because the dumber writers are out now for Engadget to amuse me. Thanks Laura.
Hooray for computers that can run 6 hours at a time, fit easily in your backpack, and are plenty powerful to let you type your papers and presentations up without making you eat ramen any more than you already do.
And also? Hooray for finally making it so that programmers might finally have to think a little bit before they decide to make the next revision of their word processor require 4GB of RAM and four CPU cores to run. Aside from 3D gaming most of the limitations right now are due to crappy programming-including the fact that flash videos play so poorly.
Finally, most netbook owners use them as secondary computers so they have a more powerful computer back home-if you don't want one nobody's making you buy one-what kind of tool whines about the fact that people have more options? It's not like they stopped making regular laptops.
BTW the ultraportables that these really replaced weren't ever very powerful to begin with. No such thing ever existed as a 2.5 pound gaming rig.
Ha ha. Look at you go the4thdouche.
You seem to think I would care about whatever you wrote here.
When did I write, or even imply that I was distraught over people having more options? And it's not that I dont want one... I can afford something better. Not something that has the same specs as a PC made 10 years ago.
You sir, are the tool.
has it ever occurred to anyone that people dont need a honking spec'ed laptop? personally, all i use my laptop for is internet/movies/music/email/light document editing and a way to get stuff on my zune :). im looking at a booklet 3g as my next computer because i need portability/battery life over brute power. I think alot of people are also buying netbooks because they dont need all that excess power that ruins battery life. if you want a heavy gaming experience, most people have xbox's/ps3's for that. for HD movies there is bluray/tv. if all you use a computer for is email/internet, photos..do you really need a 2.53 ghz dual core with a 256 mb radeon gpu that costs $7-1000? i think netbooks are the future of laptops...especially for the mobile people.
lol at the hate for netbooks.
go find a average consumer that would use a laptop for more then facebook, email, skype, ms word. With Nvidia Ion showing up on the latest netbooks and flash 10.1 on the horizon it will be really hard not to recommend netbooks to everyone unless they need the screen real estate or using a high end software.
I can only agree. Computers started out for people that wanted to very best performance, but computer companies need to quench share holder greed and profit margins meant netbooks make complete sense for average users who don't know what Crysis is, don't edit video and don't know/care flash 10.1 is coming or not. It's mass market politics and economics. Simple! I wait with amusement when shortly netbooks are laptops in performance terms from about 3-4 years ago but as we know relatively cheaper, etc, etc...
I am surprised. I think a netbook only fills a small niche for individuals who want a product in addition to their other laptop/desktop. i can't see many consumers settling and using just a netbook
Why to you assume consumers are "settling" for a netbook? Couldn't it be possible that it's EXACTLY what the avg non-geek, too busy for WOW, no idea what chip overclocking is about, consumer is looking for? Not everyone takes joy in hauling a 6lb i7 bricktop around, or has the need for one.
Those who are surprised probably have not owned/used a netbook. Netbooks make more sense to the mass public cost-wise, because really the segment that plays hardcore games or use high-end software is way way less than the segment that just wants to check email, search, and watch some movies (which is everyone).
Netbook is much more than a niche product. Just because we post at engadget and "know better" does not change that fact.
It seems everyone is missing the biggest negative for netbooks, margins. These companies make next to nothing on their computers as it is, and netbooks create even less profit. The fear for me is that these netbooks will force manufacturers to skimp even more on parts, support, etc. I like the idea of a netbook, but they still are not there power-wise (though maybe the next gen will be) and the low cost leaves me concerned about the viability of some of these companies and what they will have to do to make ends meet. For example, in the 90's Dell had second-to-none support. 10 years later, their support is absolutely terrible from outsourcing and cuts to make up for ever-shrinking margins on their products.