All is not well in the land of the
E6400- and
E6500-series lappytops. What looks to be hundreds of owners of these machines have been complaining of massive performance issues, throttling themselves down by as much as 95% under what would seem to be normal operating conditions. Whenever the devices get slightly warm the BIOS automatically starts dialing down the performance until they basically crawl to a halt, some indicating that even when cool they won't go over 50% of maximum clock. Users have been reporting this issue since early in the year and Dell has apparently started censoring some posts on its forums, including a link to a PDF created by (now-banned) user Tinkerdude describing the problem in detail. It's entitled "Performance loss during normal operation in a Dell Latitude E6500 laptop due to processor and bus clock throttling", and if you think that's long wait until you see all 59 pages of analysis (at the read link). As of now there's no official fix provided by Dell, leaving many to call this Throttlegate, and we do love a good Stargate reference.
Update: Ibrahim e-mailed to let us know that these two series aren't the only ones being gimped. The Studio XPS 1645 is said to be having similar (but somewhat less drastic) issues
according to this thread, seemingly thanks to an inadequate AC adapter. In this case Dell seems to be shipping replacement adapters to those who call up and complain.
Update 2: Dell's Chief Blogger Lionel Menchaca dropped the following in comments, which is something of a positive step:
We're aware of concerns raised in this post and others like it. At this point, our teams are looking into the details. When we have more information to share, we'll update customers via a post on Dell's blog, Direct2Dell.
posted December 1st 2009 8:21AM
I should not that this problem materialized mostly when using dualview in a docking station.
Dells older 9400/E1705 series were da bomb. Almost perfect with nice subwoofer and everything. The studios are ok since they stole Vaio designers. However the build quality is atrocious, the hinges have broken on every Studio I've seen that gets normal use. I really want to recommend Dells, but gawd damn they make it hard.
Hi,
I've received a pre-release of BIOS A18 quite a while ago. I've been working with DELL EMEA on this months ago until they admitted having a problem with the "thermal tables" in the BIOS.
I've received T11 BIOS and now A18. Both of them solved the issue. Moreover, there's another step now for the fan speeds, not just "off, med, high" just some in between.
You can download the A18 here:
http://www.file-upload.net/download-1949517/E6400A18.zip.html
Do it at your own risk. It works for me and others.
Rgds,
JB
Thats for the E6400 only!!
http://www.file-upload.net/download-1949517/E6400A18.zip.html
@breitj http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&releaseid=R246463&SystemID=LAT_E6500&servicetag=&os=WLH&osl=en&deviceid=16473&devlib=0&typecnt=0&vercnt=10&catid=-1&impid=-1&formatcnt=1&libid=1&typeid=-1&dateid=-1&formatid=-1&fileid=358522
that is the A18 and just released... maybe it will fix my issue? i installed it 10 mins ago and so far my SYSTEM does not go above 04 where it used to shoot to 40 - 90 .. but sometimes it didnt manifest until hours and hours or days after booting. But so far so good... i hope atleast. Ill update in a few hours or as soon as i notice performance issues.
A18 GO GET IT!
Mirror to the PDF:
http://rapidshare.com/files/315250417/throttlegate.pdf
is there a reason you guys removed the ability to comment on this issue?
uhh comments broken? or they disabled them so we cant post about this dell issue?
oops wtf comments wierd.
@breitj http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&releaseid=R246463&SystemID=LAT_E6500&servicetag=&os=WLH&osl=en&deviceid=16473&devlib=0&typecnt=0&vercnt=10&catid=-1&impid=-1&formatcnt=1&libid=1&typeid=-1&dateid=-1&formatid=-1&fileid=358522
that is the A18 and just released... maybe it will fix my issue? i installed it 10 mins ago and so far my SYSTEM does not go above 04 where it used to shoot to 40 - 90 .. but sometimes it didnt manifest until hours and hours or days after booting. But so far so good... i hope atleast. Ill update in a few hours or as soon as i notice performance issues.
A18 GO GET IT!
@leok
DLing now. Hopefully this works on my E6500.
@BayCreekTech do you have the same issue where SYSTEM process spikes or the laptop feels like its infected with a spyware but nothing ever finds anything? or does yours straight up freeze and the mouse doesnt even move?
Dell today has release BIOS A19 for the e6400 models, with the following fixes:
Fixes/Enhancements
------------------
1. Updated thermal table.
2. Removed HDD Acoustic support.
3. Enhanced INT 19h support.
I'll try it out later today on mine.
Installed the A17 update for the M2400 just now.
Glad Dell got their heads down and released an update.
Doing a thermal stress test as we speak. =]
Well, this update is the magic bullet M2400 users should be looking for.
Good on ya Dell.
seems better with the A18 for e6500. But SYSTEM still goes from 01 - 04 but stays below 10. Anyone else have this issue? is SYSTEM supposed to always stay at around 00? or 01? im just so damn frustrated with this laptop that ive been in Ripping hair out mode for past 6 months. My boss almost fired me because he thought i kept getting viruses... not to mention having to shut down and take my battery out during a presentation to 100 people and hear laughs because its extremely unproffessional. Good times dell!!
A19 was released yeterday for the E6400 which includes an updated Thermal Table:
http://www.engadget.com/bp_access/confirm/?activationcode=zQXm0I7F55SQo8vL/AWbyYzCkcXqycknz+POyJmRk4qat9Cd1vs+yOLQ2P8DKs4Hpw==
Rather, that link is:
http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&releaseid=R246462&SystemID=lat_e6400&servicetag=&os=WLH&osl=en&deviceid=15569&devlib=0&typecnt=0&vercnt=10&catid=-1&impid=-1&formatcnt=1&libid=1&typeid=-1&dateid=-1&formatid=-1&fileid=358515
To folks who are interested, here's the link to my Direct2Dell post: http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/direct2dell/archive/2009/12/02/dell-on-laptops-and-throttling.aspx
I've not tested other systems, but the new BIOS for the E6500 (A18) does not resolve the problem. It provides an improvement, but the system will still throttle under heavy usage at room temperature when docked. The throttling behavior is essentially the same - it only occurs at 4 or 5 degrees C higher than before. This is not acceptable, especially for a system that is marketed as "pure business performance designed for the most demanding applications" (p. 27, October 2009 printed catalog key code 65051). What "component temperature" considerations could there be? The CPU and GPU don't even approach their rated maximum temps before the E6500 cripples itself severely by throttling. What "skin temperature" considerations would there be when the system is docked? I spent about $2000 on a top-of-the-line corporate-class docking desktop replacement and the last thing I would expect (or tolerate) is that Dell would deliberately design this system to cripple itself into utter uselessness (down to less than 5% of processing capacity - even crashing with a bluescreen in the worst circumstances) and, to top it all off, to do so with no indication whatsoever. Dell has no business secretly crippling my system (and thus, my productivity) - I paid $2000 to get 2.2GHz ALL the time, not just some of the time and ESPECIALLY not just some of the time with Dell not telling me when. I'm afraid the incalculable hours of frustration and troubleshooting caused by this problem will unfortunately result in an even further erosion of Dell's global PC market share (once #1, now #3 and falling).
My original 59-page report outlining this issue in excruciating technical detail (which contains test results valid for E6500 BIOS versions through A16) is at:
http://www.sigmirror.com/files/44490_iweoz/throttlegate.pdf
Randall Cotton (AKA tinkerdude)
Detailed testing results comparing E6500 BIOS A18 with the previous version, A16 is available at:
http://en.community.dell.com/forums/p/19247293/19601699.aspx#19601699
Randall Cotton (AKA tinkerdude)
@tinkerdude hey i have one of the original E6500 systems. I have had the issue ever since i recieved it.. it has not gotten worse in the summer... it has always been just as terrible... season doesnt matter.. i always have it in a dock with 2 monitors... i cant take it out and i cant use 1 monitor because MY JOB REQUIRES IT... so dell is screwing me pretty bad... i have had to reload my machine over and over having my boss almost fire me a few times.. its BS and dell is directly ruining my life... and i cant do anything about it.. if dell doesnt release a ACKNOWLEDGEMENT STATEMENT that there is a MALFUNCTION in the E6500 series.. i might get fired... this is BS... so anyway I got the laptop back when they were first put on the DELL BUSINESS store so it has to be one of the first... if you need any testing done ... i never had anything replaced in it because i always thought it was me so u can compare it to a brand new "fixed" system realtime or i dunno.. just fyi.. i did call dell many times but always unresolved... if you want i can give u my email .
@tinkerdude hey i have one of the original E6500 systems. I have had the issue ever since i recieved it.. it has not gotten worse in the summer... it has always been just as terrible... season doesnt matter.. i always have it in a dock with 2 monitors... i cant take it out and i cant use 1 monitor because MY JOB REQUIRES IT... so dell is screwing me pretty bad... i have had to reload my machine over and over having my boss almost fire me a few times.. its BS and dell is directly ruining my life... and i cant do anything about it.. if dell doesnt release a ACKNOWLEDGEMENT STATEMENT that there is a MALFUNCTION in the E6500 series.. i might get fired... this is BS... so anyway I got the laptop back when they were first put on the DELL BUSINESS store so it has to be one of the first... if you need any testing done ... i never had anything replaced in it because i always thought it was me so u can compare it to a brand new "fixed" system realtime or i dunno.. just fyi.. i did call dell many times but always unresolved... if you want i can give u my email .
yea NOT FIXED for E6500.
if a problem persists for over a year and cannot be fixed = recall please
guys if you have facebook we can all stick together here:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-Got-A-DELL-with-the-THROTTLE-BUG-AND-IT-STILL-IS-NOT-FIXED/335577745410
FAN it and check it frequently!
I have a Dell E6500 with slow 2D, 3D video problems and the Intel card. I tried several distributions and versions of Linux, but couldn't resolve the performance problems. After hearing about Throttlegate, and almost by accident, I discovered that using a power supply with 4 amps or greater solved my performance problems. Here is a short experiment and results that shows this was a power issue, at least for me:
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~rfink1/e6500.html
THIS MAY BE A POWER SUPPLY ISSUE. I have a Dell E6500 with slow 2D, 3D video problems and the Intel card. I tried several distributions and versions of Linux, but couldn't resolve the performance problems. After hearing about Throttlegate, and almost by accident, I discovered that using a power supply with 4 amps or greater solved my performance problems. Here is a short experiment and results that shows this was a power issue, at least for me:
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~rfink1/e6500.html