Psystar files official notice of appeal, ruthlessly attacks windmill
By Nilay Patel 
posted January 16th 2010 12:32PM
posted January 16th 2010 12:32PM
Let's be honest: we never, ever, want this story to end.The matrix is born and the energy sucking machine herds Americans into pods of predetermined limitations. Forced programming on your computer is just one of the provisional patents looming against freedom and democracy. Capitalism spurring innovation and creativity through open and competitive markets is at risk on this new frontier. This new battle is being fought on the abstract electronic plains of America while most of us cannot even open our email. The beachheads are red with the blood of ambitious Americans gunned down for their initiative.
P.S. -- Wondering why Rebel EFI is listed as "out of stock" on the Psystar website? It's because there isn't any stock, shockingly enough -- in a statement filed with the court on December 31, Rudy Pedraza says all copies of the bootloader have been destroyed except for one that's in the possession of his attorneys. Between this appeal and the pending case in Florida over Snow Leopard, we'd say that means it'll be a long time before the software is back on the scene -- enough time for the legit OSx86 scene to leapfrog it entirely.
@grobbo
"You do realise that any "IBM-compatible" computer you've ever used that wasn't IBM/Lenovo branded also came from cloner companies just like Psystar, don't you?"
You do realize that most of these IBM clone companies would never had existed has Microsoft not been willing to sell their OS in OEM form to any company that wanted to put it on their IBM clone?
Is anyone stopping Psystar from making "Apple clones" as long as they are sold without OSX? The crux of a "clone" is the operating system. Without it you are just buying a box full of parts.
@minimalist
Again, trying to bring MS into a situation that doesn't involve them is ridiculous.
For the third time, MS is irrelevant.
The point is all "PC" makers (except IBM/Lenovo) are cloners, with the same intentions and goals as Psystar.
The reasons for one's success and the other's failure are of no interest. Success and failure are of no interest.
The legality of either is of no consequence.
The point is they are all cloners. Psystar set out to do what many cloners had done before it (and failed).
To be critical of Psystar but not other cloners is hypocritical.
@grobbo
"To be critical of Psystar but not other cloners is hypocritical."
Another strawman grobbo. Nobody has criticized Psystar for their hardware business (just like the original poster never said buying and selling copyrighted works was illegal but rather copying, modifying and THEN reselling) You are attacking arguments that were never made. The criticisms of Psystar always have always been of their sleazy unauthorized modification and use of another company's IP for profit as well as their abuse of the open source communities work.
IBM cloners never break the law. Psystar did. The hardware is inconsequential.
@minimalist
No, you are reading something that was never written. If you go back to my post at the start of this mini-thread, you'll see that I made no mention of the OP, I in fact wrote about the comments readers had left.
I am not calling the original post hypocritical, and I made no claims, nor refuted any arguments. I am calling commenters critical of Pystar's aims/goals/philosophy who have used non IBM/Lenovo "PC"s hypocritical.
Don't accuse me of strawmen with strawmen of your own. Stay on MY topic.
Correct, IBM cloners cloned legally, Psystar cloned illegally. Irrelevant. I am not interested in legality here.
Compaq (and the rest) said "let's clone IBM". They succeeded.
Psystar said "let's clone Apple". They failed.
Compaq+ cloned against IBM's wishes, and cleanroom copied their proprietary BIOS. IBM had no way to stop them.
Because Apple owned their OS (unlike IBM) they DID have a legal avenue to stop Psystar.
@grobbo
"No, you are reading something that was never written. If you go back to my post at the start of this mini-thread, you'll see that I made no mention of the OP, I in fact wrote about the comments readers had left"
Really?
"The author should brush up on his knowledge of the legalities in his post...It is 100% legal, and done by millions of Americans everyday, to resell copyrighted purchases.
It's enshrined in the "Right of First Sale" (although that is something different) in the US. Please look it up."
Those are your words grobbo, not mine. Nothing was "imagined". You claimed the author said something he never said and you were promptly called out for it. Denying you ever said such a thing when your original post is right here in the thread for all to see is absurd.
"I am not calling the original post hypocritical, and I made no claims, nor refuted any arguments. I am calling commenters critical of Pystar's aims/goals/philosophy who have used non IBM/Lenovo "PC"s hypocritical."
Care to point out these posts you claim you are responding too or are we just supposed to take your word for it? Of course the posters have to specifically be complaining specifically about Psystar and their HARDWARE (and not about the misuse of intellectual property). Because the OS has absolutely nothing to do with this, right?
@minimalist
You're in the wrong sub-thread. Try this one:
" Not sure what their idiot lawyer has to do with our gadgets and electronics.
It's a pity Psystar couldn't succeed. More competition for Apple would have been great for consumers of their products.
I'm surprised at all the negative comments directed at Psystar actually. You do realise that any "IBM-compatible" computer you've ever used that wasn't IBM/Lenovo branded also came from cloner companies just like Psystar, don't you? "
I'd be happy point out the posts I claim "I'm responding too" just as soon as you can point out where I claim that (I don't BTW. It's just another of your strawmen.)
I'll repeat myself, for your benefit: I wasn't replying to the OP in particular., Nor was I replying to a reader comment in particular; if I was, I wouldn't have started a sub-thread, I would have continued one.
Do yourself a favour, and don't bring up ay more strawmen arguments about who I'm replying to, etc. Stay on track.
My point, as it always was, is that anyone critical of Psystar's goals and philosophy but not of IBM cloners (Compaq+) is hypocritical, because they have the SAME goals and philosophy:
Compaq+ said "We want to sell 'IBM' boxes with our badge on them", despite what IBM wanted, and they did.
Psystar said "We want to sell 'Apple' boxes with our badge on them", despite what Psystar wanted, but because Apple use their own OS, Psystar was able to be stopped in court.
@edit
Psystar said "We want to sell 'Apple' boxes with our badge on them", despite what APPLE wanted, but because Apple use their own OS, Psystar was able to be stopped in court.
@grobbo
Oh please, stop dodging the subject on BS technicalities about me drawing from the "wrong subthread". It just looks desperate and your words are still there lear as day. It couldn't get any clearer than this"
"The author should brush up on his knowledge of the legalities in his post... It is 100% legal, and done by millions of Americans everyday, to resell copyrighted purchases. It's enshrined in the "Right of First Sale" (although that is something different) in the US. Please look it up."
You said it. Nilay Patel called you on it. I called you on it. Keep denying it or changing the subject if you must. But the post speaks for itself.
"My point, as it always was, is that anyone critical of Psystar's goals and philosophy but not of IBM cloners (Compaq+) is hypocritical, because they have the SAME goals and philosophy:"
Dodging again. There are only 61 posts in this whole thread. Just quote one, any damn one, that is specifically critical of Psystar's "goals and philosophy". If you can't, then you are attacking words that were never said... which is the very definition of a "strawman argument".
@minimalist
Is it too difficult to argue against my point? You need to bring up other things to argue against? Even other threads? Check the definition of "strawman".
Don't worry, I'll help you stay on subject:
Anyone critical of Psystar's goals and philosophy but not of IBM cloners (Compaq+) is hypocritical, because they have the SAME goals and philosophy:
Compaq+ said "We want to sell 'IBM' boxes with our badge on them", despite what IBM wanted, and they did.
Psystar said "We want to sell 'Apple' boxes with our badge on them", despite what Apple wanted, but because Apple use their own OS, Psystar was able to be stopped in court.
As you can see it's a blanket criticism that applies to anyone fitting the description, so pointing out which comments fit is unnecessary, but it's so easy I will anyway:
"The criticisms of Psystar always have always been of their sleazy unauthorized modification and use of another company's IP for profit as well as their abuse of the open source communities work."
"They're stone cold, bat shit crazy."
"These guys need their heads tested."
"Why wont it die!"
"PSYTAR XVIII: Dead Horse Assault!"
"Damn Psystar. Just go out of freakin' business already..."
"Heh, pirating from a company thats leeching from another. "
"psystar needs to stop walking around with a chip on their shoulders, thinking they didnt anything wrong here!"
Of course a whole lot more comments put Psystar in a negative light too, as anyone can plainly see, but these are the best.
Remember now, no strawmen, stay on subject. It might be a little extreme to put it in one post twice, but I think you need it:
Anyone critical of Psystar's goals and philosophy but not of IBM cloners (Compaq+) is hypocritical, because they have the SAME goals and philosophy:
Compaq+ said "We want to sell 'IBM' boxes with our badge on them", despite what IBM wanted, and they did.
Psystar said "We want to sell 'Apple' boxes with our badge on them", despite what Apple wanted, but because Apple use their own OS, Psystar was able to be stopped in court.
@grobbo
Thanks for at least trying this time by supplying some actual quotes. But not one of the quotes you list above actually criticize Psystar's "goals and philosophy" ... at least insofar as it pertains to the simple cloning of HARDWARE. Remember, you keep claiming the OS on a clone is irrelevant so people being angry at the way Psystar broke the law to copy, modify and illegally leech off of Apple has nothing to do with this argument.
People aren't pissed at the "goals and philosophy" of Psystar. They are pissed about Psystar's illegal ACTIONS and their sleezy justifications for those actions. Big difference. There is no hypocrisy in calling out someone for for their behavior even if their heart was in the right place. IBM cloners didn't break the law to build IBM clones. Psystar did. Its pretty simple, really.
Still hanging on to that "but its part of another subthread" excuse, to avoid owning up to your own words, huh?. It won't change the fact that you were condescendingly called out by Nilay Patel for what you said about his post. At first I thought the tone of his reaction was over the top but I am beginning to think you might have deserved it now.
@minimalist
!!! An actual argument against me!:
" There is no hypocrisy in calling out someone for for their behavior even if their heart was in the right place. IBM cloners didn't break the law to build IBM clones. Psystar did. Its pretty simple, really. "
You think following the law is the same as having your heart in the right place? You think Compaq+ had their heart in the right place when they cleanroom copied IBM's BIOS? Do you know what cleanroom copying is? It uses a loophole in the law to copy IP that the owner doesn't want copied.
As for the rest of it, still addicted to strawmen I see. You didn't even attempt to call my point wrong, instead you talk about the comments I quoted.
You said I claim OS's the OS on clones are irrelevant, which (surprise, surprise) I've never written. Please point it out if you can find it.
Not sure what your obsession with hardware is, cloners don't clone hardware and try to sell it without an OS. Wouldn't be much of a clone now would it? Most consumers need the whole package.
Compaq+ didn't break the law to copy, modify and legally leech off IBM. (not that I have any problem with that, or with Psystar)
Whether you agree or not, I'm going to go ahead and assume the authors of those quotes ALL dislike Psystar's goals and philosophy (I never said "pertaining to hardware". YOU said that). I think most people would come to the same conclusion, and I doubt the authors themselves would say otherwise - I doubt even you would say you agree with Psystar's goals and philosophy (you were one of the quote authors).
Here's the point again, see if you can hit it with your next volley of strawmen:
Anyone critical of Psystar's goals and philosophy but not of IBM cloners (Compaq+) is hypocritical, because they have the SAME goals and philosophy:
Compaq+ said "We want to sell 'IBM' boxes with our badge on them", despite what IBM wanted, and they did.
Psystar said "We want to sell 'Apple' boxes with our badge on them", despite what Apple wanted, but because Apple use their own OS, Psystar was able to be stopped in court.
Remember, you're in this sub-thread to tell me why my OP/point is wrong.
You haven't been able to even come close yet.
@grobbo
You, know, Grobbo. Nilay Patel was was pretty much right in his assessment of you to begin with. You're a prickly troll who doesn't offer others respect so you don't deserve to be shown respect yourself.
You think you don't have to own up to your words on some bullshit procedural grounds that if its in another sub-thread you don't have to be accountable for things you said. I've posted the relevant quotes several times yet you just keep dancing around them like an evasive politician. And like a child that eternally changes his story or who denies he wrote something when he has been shown the evidence, you are a waste of time to argue with.
Have fun jousting your own windmills, Grobbo. We are all "hypocrites" because we think Psystar deserved what they got and you have exposed us. Now I'm sure you'll want to get the last word (and I'm sure it will be long and rambling and incoherent. Knock yourself out.
@minimalist
You're right, there was a lot of dancing going on, but you were leading, not me.
My first, and last word, and the point of this subthread, that you managed to avoid almost entirely while trying to prove it wrong (!) was:
Anyone critical of Psystar's goals and philosophy but not of IBM cloners (Compaq+) is hypocritical, because they have the SAME goals and philosophy:
Compaq+ said "We want to sell 'IBM' boxes with our badge on them", despite what IBM wanted, and they did.
Psystar said "We want to sell 'Apple' boxes with our badge on them", despite what Apple wanted, but because Apple use their own OS, Psystar was able to be stopped in court.
Best title to a blog post, ever.
Apple is evil, What else is new?
"Jokes and humor of any kind are always welcome emails."
http://myharvardlawyer.us/eugene_action.html
If I sent him an email containing just his name... do you think he'd get it?
Poor Psystar
As someone who switched back to PCs (due to Windows 7) after using Macs for the better part of the 2000s, I can sincerely ask: WHY? Why would anyone want a cheap Mac? OS X is part of the Apple experience, and running on cheaper hardware just means you're running a limited OS with small market-share on the cheapest hardware you can find.
Let me put it another way: If you're going to use PC hardware, why limit yourself, and remove every advantage of that hardware, by using OS X?
@ZeroCorpse Written like a true Wintard. :P