@TareG: Apple is stepping up to an entire multi-touch interface and will defend that, as opposed to defending a few distinct gestures. Besides, multi-touch on anything other than an iPhone is nothing but fail. The iPhone OS was designed with multi-touch as a core element. Multi-touch on other platforms is simply so they can showcase it in TV ads and shout, "Look we're just like Apple!: Even better: "Buy one Droid, get one free!"
@Ariel Bender What is this "Buy one Droid, get one free!" spew? You do realise that the networks are responsible for BOGOF offers, not the phone manufacturers? The network "gives" a second phone with a second line, which you pay for for the duration of the contract. the handset is paid for by the network.
As for your "multi-touch on anything other than an iPhone is nothing but fail" comment, have you used every multitouch capable handset to come to this conclusion or is it just personal opinion?
@Ariel Bender "multi-touch on anything other than an iPhone is nothing but fail" Wow, fanboy much? And I disagree the entire OS was built around multitouch, since the main OS doesn't use multitouch itself afaik, just apps like the kb, maps, browser, etc.
@ChazClout: BOGOF. Let's face it, that's what Google is all about. Mediocre stuff for free, and in return they monetize your behavior.
Regarding multi-touch in the context of a touch-centric OS, Gruber says it best: " On the iPhone, once you’re in an app, everything happens on-screen, with touch. Everything. You go outside the screen to the home button to leave the app or the sleep button to turn off the device. On Android, many things happens on screen with touch, but many other things don’t, and you’re often leaving the screen for the hardware Back, Menu, and Home buttons, and text selection and editing requires the use of the fiddly trackball. An Android gadget never disappears.'
@bstock: The truth hurts. Which is why Google/Android fans are in such denial. Google wants to be loved as Apple is loved, and Android users want to be acknowledged as hip and successful as Apple users are. Except Google is just a cheap knockoff, and for that matter, so is Android.
@Ariel Bender "BOGOF. Let's face it, that's what Google is all about. Mediocre stuff for free, and in return they monetize your behavior" Google you say? AFAIK, the only Google branded phone is the Nexus One. Care to show me a BOGOF deal on the N1? Top tip: Don't confuse other branded Android phones with Google. HTC with Android is HTC. Motorola with Android is Motorola. Samsung with Android is Samsing. Catch my drift?
2nd point, I don't give a shit what Gruber said. What actual experience have you had with other multitouch devices to say "Besides, multi-touch on anything other than an iPhone is nothing but fail"?
@dpraetorius: I love it when we get exactly what we want out of life. I'm hip and successful, and you are whoever you want to be, but the demographics and profit margins don't lie. Apple, and users of their products, is where the action is. It's where innovation is showcased and status resides.
@ChazClout: Why so serious? Oh, could it be because as often as you down rank my comments, the truth keeps rising to the forefront?
Google's Android is a knockoff of the iPhone OS. The incorporation of multi-touch is only further proof that Google is no better than Microsoft. Both are companies that rip off Apple's IP and sell it for less or in Google's case, free.
Furthermore, what is what all of this Nexus no(One) exclusivity? While it is true that Android is one big bucket of clustercuss regarding version and feature availability, that doesn't elevate the N1 to sought after status. Rather, it illustrates just how Google bends over their partners and customers when it suits their purpose. Let's go ahead and ask G1 early adopters if they've ever felt cheated. Just what I thought.
@Ariel Bender Serious? All I'm trying to deduce as someone who writes "Besides, multi-touch on anything other than an iPhone is nothing but fail" has any experience with all the competition to bolster what they are saying? If not then what you are saying is total bollocks.
I can't see what Android OS has knocked off of the iPhone as multitouch is an age old technology, going back to the 80's. If Apple really did have anything substantial on multitouch tech, why aren't they suing? Also as Google bought Android INC back in 2005, (source:) http://bit.ly/dyG7rf if the fools at Apple didn't see Google entering the mobile market, then they must be crazy. You want to talk knockoffs? What about the fact that Apple are using Nokia tech without licensing it when every other major phone manufacturer does?
On your Nexus no(One) drivel, since when has sales meant anything to the end user? Look at the Macintosh line of computers. Very low marketshare but a majority of the users (myself included) find their Macs a pleasure to use day in, day out.
Sales should only ever matter to the company selling the product or investors.
@ChazClout: Multi-touch is most effective in an operating system environment that is optimized for a touch interface. Of all smartphone operating systems, the iPhone OS is the operating system that makes the most effective use of multi-touch due to the fact the entire operating system was designed for touch input, unlike Android, Palm's WebOS and WinMo. Pure and simple. In my opinion, multi-touch is more of a 'marketing' gimmick on platforms other than the iPhone to create the impression of OS parity, instead of OS inferiority. To the last point, it is universally accepted that all other smartphone OS platforms have not yet attained the degree of user interface uniformity and polish found with the iPhone OS. And yes, I've used all of products within the competitive set. And no, the Nexus (no)One is not a parity product with the iPhone 3GS.
@ChazClout: Furthermore, don't embarrass yourself by trying to create the impression that Google was the innovator in the smartphone space. Much like Windows apologists who cite the work of Alan Kay, you are in denial. Apple is the innovator, they introduced the game-changer, not Google, not Microsoft and certainly not Nokia. So what they bought a ton of patents for IP protection. Nokia is not now, and never was, an innovator company. And trust me when I tell you this, in three years the iPad will be recognized as their next game-changer as netbook, laptop and desktop sales go the way of the dinosaur.
@Ariel Bender Wow. You really do get off to Steve Jobs. You're embarrassing all iPhone users. Go look up the LG Prada, which was both announced and released before the original iPhone. Apple could ask you for your favorite features from the iPhone and remove them all and you'd still defend it to the end.
Cheated? You mean like when Apple reduced the price of the original iPhone by $200 just weeks after launch, and gave early adopters a $100 Apple gift certificate in return.
I can't wait for a legitimate Android device to hit AT&T, so I can stop waiting for Mast.. Mr. Jobs to tell us when and if where ready for certain features.
When did I create the impression that Google was an innovator? I really like what the iPhone did on release and has achieved during its short life so far but it is hardly the pinnicle of what is a smartphone.
I've been using smartphones for well over a decade and some of the biggest problems with iPhone OS do need resolving. The intrusive notification system needs a overhaul, the lack of multitasking hampers the device (for me at least) and the lack of some physical buttons is to its detriment too. (The lack of an Android style "back" button where it takes you a step back where you were no matter what and the universal "search" button which enables you to quickly search your device no matter where you are are two features I use constantly in Android.)
I very much doubt there is much reasoning with you to the advantages of other platforms but I have enjoyed the discussion with you so thanks!
@Ariel Bender Apparently Steve Jobs has you at anything i.. LG Prada no doubt had the form factor before along with a capacitive screen. It didn't stop me from going for the iPhone instead. I did that because it was the better device, exactly why I will switch to an Android device once a nice one is available on AT&T. You on the other hand will continue swallowing whenever you're told.
It's your phone that you're going to be using daily, stop falling in love with the shortcomings just because you were told too. I don't know how or why people are willing to let their loyalty for a company hurt them. I liked my or original iPhone, and now 3GS but I'm not just gonna blindly defend it's shortcomings, and bash the competitions obvious advantages. Google has offered me great services, and I'm about to switch to Android, but I have no problem admitting I don't see the point in Google Buzz or that Android is still behind iPhone in terms of multimedia.
@ChazClout: The iPhone ecosystem, i.e., the device, the apps, the desktop client, the MobileMe cloud, represents the benchmark that every other smartphone OS attempts to conquer yet fails to achieve. I don't get into pointless feature set comparisons when it is the totality of the user experience that triumphs over all.
@TheGM: Name one feature of Android worth switching to from the iPhone OS that overcomes all of the shortcomings of the Android platform as it relates to app quality and availability, media management and overall ease of use and I might consider it.
Android now has a majority of the App I use on the iPhone; though I might have to buy 2 of them again. Other than that it has apps and features that the iPhone doesn't. Everything from widgets (Pandora, SportsTap, Weather Channel are all iPhone apps that have widgets on their Android versions), Flash (As well as HTML 5; Flash is still needed right now), free Google Navigation, Google Voice, background apps (An app that lets you do everything from, tracking your phone, locking it with a customized message displayed, or sounding an alarm sound. For free; sounds great to me.)
...But I could've mentioned that it had magical powers that granted you immortality and you wouldn't be convinced.
Android has: Android Market, GMail, Google Calendar, Google Contacts, Google Docs, Google Navigation (US only at the moment), Google Voice (again, US only) & Picasa Web albums which all substitute MobileMe, without having to pay Google a hefty sum of $99 for the single subscription or $149 for the family pack.
The best bit about the majority of the things above is that it is compatible with more than Android based phones so migrating from different handsets is a breeze.
Now that we've thrown 'em off the trail, use the form below to get in touch with the people at Engadget. Please fill in all of the required fields because they're required.
Android got it, webOS got it, and HTC introduced it for HD2. What again was this Apple patent for?
@TareG: Apple is stepping up to an entire multi-touch interface and will defend that, as opposed to defending a few distinct gestures. Besides, multi-touch on anything other than an iPhone is nothing but fail. The iPhone OS was designed with multi-touch as a core element. Multi-touch on other platforms is simply so they can showcase it in TV ads and shout, "Look we're just like Apple!: Even better: "Buy one Droid, get one free!"
@Ariel Bender
What is this "Buy one Droid, get one free!" spew?
You do realise that the networks are responsible for BOGOF offers, not the phone manufacturers? The network "gives" a second phone with a second line, which you pay for for the duration of the contract. the handset is paid for by the network.
As for your "multi-touch on anything other than an iPhone is nothing but fail" comment, have you used every multitouch capable handset to come to this conclusion or is it just personal opinion?
@Ariel Bender
"multi-touch on anything other than an iPhone is nothing but fail" Wow, fanboy much? And I disagree the entire OS was built around multitouch, since the main OS doesn't use multitouch itself afaik, just apps like the kb, maps, browser, etc.
@ChazClout: BOGOF. Let's face it, that's what Google is all about. Mediocre stuff for free, and in return they monetize your behavior.
Regarding multi-touch in the context of a touch-centric OS, Gruber says it best: " On the iPhone, once you’re in an app, everything happens on-screen, with touch. Everything. You go outside the screen to the home button to leave the app or the sleep button to turn off the device. On Android, many things happens on screen with touch, but many other things don’t, and you’re often leaving the screen for the hardware Back, Menu, and Home buttons, and text selection and editing requires the use of the fiddly trackball. An Android gadget never disappears.'
@bstock: The truth hurts. Which is why Google/Android fans are in such denial. Google wants to be loved as Apple is loved, and Android users want to be acknowledged as hip and successful as Apple users are. Except Google is just a cheap knockoff, and for that matter, so is Android.
@Ariel Bender "Android users want to be acknowledged as hip and successful as Apple users are."
Seriously? I'm pretty sure nobody wants to be as "hip" and "successful" as your comments suggest you are.
@Ariel Bender
"BOGOF. Let's face it, that's what Google is all about. Mediocre stuff for free, and in return they monetize your behavior"
Google you say? AFAIK, the only Google branded phone is the Nexus One. Care to show me a BOGOF deal on the N1?
Top tip: Don't confuse other branded Android phones with Google. HTC with Android is HTC. Motorola with Android is Motorola. Samsung with Android is Samsing. Catch my drift?
2nd point, I don't give a shit what Gruber said. What actual experience have you had with other multitouch devices to say "Besides, multi-touch on anything other than an iPhone is nothing but fail"?
@Ariel Bender
Android is the cheap knockoff, when Apple uses an OS based on Unix...
@dpraetorius: I love it when we get exactly what we want out of life. I'm hip and successful, and you are whoever you want to be, but the demographics and profit margins don't lie. Apple, and users of their products, is where the action is. It's where innovation is showcased and status resides.
@beatsmelody: Perhaps you've heard of Avie Tevanian and NextStep? No? That's what I thought.
@Ariel Bender : It's commenters like you that Engadget turned off the comments section for a while.
Why is it always the Apple cultists who cause all the trouble?
@ChazClout: Why so serious? Oh, could it be because as often as you down rank my comments, the truth keeps rising to the forefront?
Google's Android is a knockoff of the iPhone OS. The incorporation of multi-touch is only further proof that Google is no better than Microsoft. Both are companies that rip off Apple's IP and sell it for less or in Google's case, free.
Furthermore, what is what all of this Nexus no(One) exclusivity? While it is true that Android is one big bucket of clustercuss regarding version and feature availability, that doesn't elevate the N1 to sought after status. Rather, it illustrates just how Google bends over their partners and customers when it suits their purpose. Let's go ahead and ask G1 early adopters if they've ever felt cheated. Just what I thought.
@Ariel Bender
Serious? All I'm trying to deduce as someone who writes "Besides, multi-touch on anything other than an iPhone is nothing but fail" has any experience with all the competition to bolster what they are saying? If not then what you are saying is total bollocks.
I can't see what Android OS has knocked off of the iPhone as multitouch is an age old technology, going back to the 80's. If Apple really did have anything substantial on multitouch tech, why aren't they suing? Also as Google bought Android INC back in 2005, (source:) http://bit.ly/dyG7rf if the fools at Apple didn't see Google entering the mobile market, then they must be crazy. You want to talk knockoffs? What about the fact that Apple are using Nokia tech without licensing it when every other major phone manufacturer does?
On your Nexus no(One) drivel, since when has sales meant anything to the end user? Look at the Macintosh line of computers. Very low marketshare but a majority of the users (myself included) find their Macs a pleasure to use day in, day out.
Sales should only ever matter to the company selling the product or investors.
@ChazClout: Multi-touch is most effective in an operating system environment that is optimized for a touch interface. Of all smartphone operating systems, the iPhone OS is the operating system that makes the most effective use of multi-touch due to the fact the entire operating system was designed for touch input, unlike Android, Palm's WebOS and WinMo. Pure and simple. In my opinion, multi-touch is more of a 'marketing' gimmick on platforms other than the iPhone to create the impression of OS parity, instead of OS inferiority. To the last point, it is universally accepted that all other smartphone OS platforms have not yet attained the degree of user interface uniformity and polish found with the iPhone OS. And yes, I've used all of products within the competitive set. And no, the Nexus (no)One is not a parity product with the iPhone 3GS.
@ChazClout: Furthermore, don't embarrass yourself by trying to create the impression that Google was the innovator in the smartphone space. Much like Windows apologists who cite the work of Alan Kay, you are in denial. Apple is the innovator, they introduced the game-changer, not Google, not Microsoft and certainly not Nokia. So what they bought a ton of patents for IP protection. Nokia is not now, and never was, an innovator company. And trust me when I tell you this, in three years the iPad will be recognized as their next game-changer as netbook, laptop and desktop sales go the way of the dinosaur.
@Ariel Bender Wow. You really do get off to Steve Jobs. You're embarrassing all iPhone users. Go look up the LG Prada, which was both announced and released before the original iPhone. Apple could ask you for your favorite features from the iPhone and remove them all and you'd still defend it to the end.
Cheated? You mean like when Apple reduced the price of the original iPhone by $200 just weeks after launch, and gave early adopters a $100 Apple gift certificate in return.
I can't wait for a legitimate Android device to hit AT&T, so I can stop waiting for Mast.. Mr. Jobs to tell us when and if where ready for certain features.
@TheGM: You had me at LG Prada. Hahahaha.
@Ariel Bender
When did I create the impression that Google was an innovator? I really like what the iPhone did on release and has achieved during its short life so far but it is hardly the pinnicle of what is a smartphone.
I've been using smartphones for well over a decade and some of the biggest problems with iPhone OS do need resolving.
The intrusive notification system needs a overhaul, the lack of multitasking hampers the device (for me at least) and the lack of some physical buttons is to its detriment too. (The lack of an Android style "back" button where it takes you a step back where you were no matter what and the universal "search" button which enables you to quickly search your device no matter where you are are two features I use constantly in Android.)
I very much doubt there is much reasoning with you to the advantages of other platforms but I have enjoyed the discussion with you so thanks!
@Ariel Bender Apparently Steve Jobs has you at anything i..
LG Prada no doubt had the form factor before along with a capacitive screen. It didn't stop me from going for the iPhone instead. I did that because it was the better device, exactly why I will switch to an Android device once a nice one is available on AT&T. You on the other hand will continue swallowing whenever you're told.
It's your phone that you're going to be using daily, stop falling in love with the shortcomings just because you were told too. I don't know how or why people are willing to let their loyalty for a company hurt them. I liked my or original iPhone, and now 3GS but I'm not just gonna blindly defend it's shortcomings, and bash the competitions obvious advantages. Google has offered me great services, and I'm about to switch to Android, but I have no problem admitting I don't see the point in Google Buzz or that Android is still behind iPhone in terms of multimedia.
@Elranzer
Apparently they're not quite satisfied with how "hip and successful" they're perceived to be....
@ChazClout: The iPhone ecosystem, i.e., the device, the apps, the desktop client, the MobileMe cloud, represents the benchmark that every other smartphone OS attempts to conquer yet fails to achieve. I don't get into pointless feature set comparisons when it is the totality of the user experience that triumphs over all.
@TheGM: Name one feature of Android worth switching to from the iPhone OS that overcomes all of the shortcomings of the Android platform as it relates to app quality and availability, media management and overall ease of use and I might consider it.
@Ariel Bender custom wallpaper.
@Ariel Bender Nothing will convince you.
Android now has a majority of the App I use on the iPhone; though I might have to buy 2 of them again. Other than that it has apps and features that the iPhone doesn't. Everything from widgets (Pandora, SportsTap, Weather Channel are all iPhone apps that have widgets on their Android versions), Flash (As well as HTML 5; Flash is still needed right now), free Google Navigation, Google Voice, background apps (An app that lets you do everything from, tracking your phone, locking it with a customized message displayed, or sounding an alarm sound. For free; sounds great to me.)
...But I could've mentioned that it had magical powers that granted you immortality and you wouldn't be convinced.
@Ariel Bender
You actually pay for Mobile me?
Android has: Android Market, GMail, Google Calendar, Google Contacts, Google Docs, Google Navigation (US only at the moment), Google Voice (again, US only) & Picasa Web albums which all substitute MobileMe, without having to pay Google a hefty sum of $99 for the single subscription or $149 for the family pack.
The best bit about the majority of the things above is that it is compatible with more than Android based phones so migrating from different handsets is a breeze.