Perhaps it's unfair to peg as "pricey" a trio of cameras with as yet unannounced pricing, but Sigma's got a bit of rep in that department. It also has a reputation for cramming incredible sensors inside beautiful, minimalistic form factors, and that certainly doesn't seem to be changing. The DP2s (pictured) and DP1x compacts (followups to the
DP2 and
DP1s, respectively) share a tweaked rear design that should hopefully make the notoriously obtuse cameras a bit easier to operate, and the DP1x is also putting the "Quick Set" button and True II processor from the DP2 to bear on its wide-angle view. Both cameras also boast a new, faster auto focus algorithm, but at the root of it all is the same old 14 megapixel DSLR-level CMOS sensor. In fact, Sigma's also stuffing this DSLR-style sensor into a DSLR, the new SD15. It was originally announced way back in 2008, but it's apparently really happening this time. It includes the same True II processor, a larger 3-inch LCD, and all those fancy DSLR perks like swappable lenses and a 77-segment AE sensor. Unfortunately, there's no word on price or release dates for any of this trio just yet.
posted February 21st 2010 3:08AM
I'm not holding my breath, but hopefully they fix the awfully slow overall performance issues that these cameras tend to have. Image quality isn't enough when you have to fight with your camera to get it to do what you want.
beautiful!
@looselycoupled
Yes it is beautiful, but I still prefer my red lumix G1, don't everybody?
Wounder how these new models compare to the Leica D-Lux 4/Panny LX3 combo.
@Patlex
I have both a DP2 and an LX3.
The LX3 is easy to use, takes great shots without too much brain usage. The DP2 is hard to use, slow, requires a brain to plan a shot, patience to wait for the camera to find the focus then process the RAW, etc. But, the Foveon sensor in the DP2 produces staggering results. The LX3 is surprisingly good for its size, and the DP2 can be ("can be" not "is") outstanding, even compared to some SLRs.
Impossible choice - only solution: buy both :)
@Patlex
Good grief, theres NO comparison! My trusty DP1, for all its faults, COMPLETELY washes the floor with any P&S, including the LX3 (which I own) and Leica Variant. Seriously though, you're talking a completely different type of camera and sensor here; and whilst the LX3 is a lovely camera, the Fovian sensor in the DP1 puts even my EOS 450D to shame ... so to compare it to an LX3 (or any P&S) is like comparing a meal at MacDonalds to a Michelin Star restaurant.
@Patlex the d-lux 4 is a panasonic. comparing it to the X1. now that's closer
@(Unverified)
Doesnt michelin make tires?!
Seriously though, I went to the store and held a Dp2 and the build quality was really awful.
The Dp2s probably denotes speed like a certain phone out there, so Ill wait and see, but the camera has to up the build.
Lx4 is coming and its improvements could put it on top, especially when looking at the sensor improvements in the 4/3 it just released.
@Patlex
The D-lux 4 is $2,000 but also has a APS-C dSLR sensor; uses the same senor as in the D90/D300. Its a good camera but it may not be worth the price; you could get something like a Canon 7D or a microFourThirds camera if you want compactness for much less.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/x1-field.shtml
The LX3 is a nice P&S, but it ultimately has a comparatively small sensor to the Sigma DP series cameras. However, the smaller sensor comes with its own benefits, a smaller sensor has a larger crop factor/zoom and the LX3 has a more flexible lens. The DP is fixed and can only shoot wide, but would produce better results.
Each has its own niche.
@Temple I thought this was the D-lux 4 a slight better version of the LX3. http://en.leica-camera.com/photography/compact_cameras/d-lux_4/
So then lets say both the DP1 and the LX3 are around the same price on Amazon and all one really cares about is photo quality and would like a zoom that is at least 3.8x optical and higher, you guys are saying the DP1 is the better choice?
@Patlex
Well, the sensor is about 4 TIMES BIGGER than Lumix LX3's. It's a different category camera.
@Patlex I, too, own both the DP1 and and LX3. The LX3 is much more user friendly - easier to use, zooms, performs fairly ok in low light etc. But yeah, as people have pointed out, the sensor size does make a world of difference in both IQ and the '3Dness' of the photo, the sigma DPs outperform any other PS I've used by a big margin, including the LX3. I sometimes feel a little disappointed when I look at photos of landscapes and tripod night shots that I've taken with the LX3 and wish I'd had my DP1 on me that day instead (90% of the time I wish this, my DP1 was recharging it's abysmal battery).
I do wish that the DPs would allow a new photo to be taken as the old one is writing. Taking photos with my DP (after it is captured) is such a slow experience compared to the LX3.
Old WW2 camera with new 2010 feature. Just my type of machinery.
@decalfx
I bet you'll take some great pictures with your iPad!
Oh, wait...
@decalfx
i heard its camera is beastly
If it does 720p, I'm in!
I was more interested in the new 70-200 stabilized lens they announced. Sigma seems to be on a roll with producing higher quality hardware lately :)
I'd rather have a m4/3 or another camera with interchangeable lenses, in the small body, big sensor niche market.
These foveon sensors are intriguing though.
I actually wish more cameras looked like this. They are aesthetically pleasing to the eyes.
@Cizzo In the aesthetics department, actually even the Samsung pictured a few posts down has caught up. Naturally, the two aren't comparable sensor and performance wise, but just sayin' you can get these pro-looks for way cheaper.
@Cizzo Agree. I wouldn't buy one, but it looks awesome - almost as much of a classic look as the Leica (I don't mean the cheap plasticy Leica, the real one) and for a new series of cameras.
It's unfortunate that these cameras didn't really succeed (arguably, weren't good enough to succeed) before other manufacturers caught up with the same format.
should probably mention it's a Foveon sensor not just any CMOS - that's the only reason why one would even consider a Sigma camera!
Problem with Sigma is that while Foveon sensor ROCKS, everything else in those cameras pretty much SUCKS.
I wish that Foveon-kind technology would be available in Nikon/Canon
It's not some "old 14 megapixel DSLR-level CMOS sensor"! The DP cameras come the Foveon sensors with stacked photodiods rather than standard CMOS sensors which are arranged in the Bayer pattern. Shame on you Engadget for your lackluster reporting!
@jakeshdaddy Yes, but ALSO the 14MP thing is a lie; it's really 14/3 MP (4.7), but all of those pixels being full colour. (A standard 14MP camera really has 14MP, but each one is only one of the three colours.) Gives you much better colour quality and sharper image - given the lower megapixel count - due to the lack of need for filters to put the colour back, and the advantage of lower memory consumption and faster processing time in software, but somewhat lower luminance resolution.
Because the sensor's a few years old, yes it is time it got an update and Engadget are right to use the term 'old' (even if they're wrong with the rest). Unfortunately the entire rest of the industry ignored this sensor; sales of Sigma DP-x have to be orders of magnitude behind sales of any sensors used within Canon/Nikon/Sony/etc products. I guess this translates into less R+D budget for improvements - which is a shame.
Now that we are approaching resolution limits (diffraction, etc) perhaps it will soon be the case that full-colour sensors - either with this layered technology, or with an approach that groups 4 RGBG subpixels of a standard sensor behind a single microlens* (do that right now with an 19+ MP sensor and you're at higher resolution than Foveon with much much much better noise performance) - will become standard in other cameras. I really hope so because this definitely seems like a good approach for the future.
* This is just my speculation - this approach might not work in the simple manner I described. However there must surely be some workable approach other than the one Foveon patented.
@(Unverified)
14mp is not a lie. When they say there are 14,000,000 pixels. There are! 1/3 of them is green,1/3 is blue and 1/3 is red. In the exact same manner that a 14mp bayer is (only different color proportions).
The 14mp is AS MUCH of a lie as it is on ALL the current bayer sensors. The only reason Foveon is lieing is because Bayer pattern manfucturers have been lieing for years (and getting away with it).
There are pros/cons to both sensors. Foveon is definitely more theoretically pure - there's 3 colors for every pixel, just copy them to the file from the buffer. Bayer pattern requires a lot of processing (not because there's more data, but because all of the data has to interpolated, to extend the color data to the pixels that actually have no sensors of that color). Foveon sensor of the same rating (say a 15mp) will have high resolution of the same color image (because each color has 5mp), and Bayer will give higher resolution of a black and white image (7.5mp for green and 3.75mp for blue and 3.75mp for red). It's actually sad that most people don't know how much processing the bayer pattern cameras HAVE TO DO. That's why the bayer pattern cameras always advertise the processing (ie, Vinus, Digic, etc), because so much of captureing the photo is in the processing of the bayer pattern. There's no way around it, if you turn it off, you're stuck with someone that has to be rated as a 3.75mp (for a currently rated"15mp" sensor), and lose all the benefits of the bayer sensor to begin with.
There's no such thing as a 19mp full color pixel bayer, because by definition it would be a 60mp bayer, and there would not be a reason to put a "micro lens" in front of it (that would defeat the purpose of collecting individual pixels).