Symbian^4 makes video debut, fails to wow
By Vlad Savov 
posted February 26th 2010 8:11AM
posted February 26th 2010 8:11AM
posted February 26th 2010 8:11AM
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My 2007 Symbian E65 still does everything I want, and as a +1 over the 2009 iPhone, it can multitask. So I can have a PDF with the bus stop schedule, open with Nokia Maps, while having a Fring call, with Opera Mini running in the background, and Donkey Kong Country SNES minimized. No lag. Again, 2007 Nokia technology.
Yes the iPhone is boasting primitive technology, but it's easy to use and fun to look at. Easy to use = wide market share in no time. I would definitely recommend it for my non-tech savvy family members. Buying apps is super easy, compared to getting Symbian apps. All my other friends with the E-series and N-series phones are only using it for camera/phone/sms. Very few use it for the internet.
So while the iPhone is kinda primitive, it is still responsible for brining the concept of smartphone and mobile internet to the masses, and that's something Nokia, HTC, and Google have all benefited from.
I'm waiting for Symbian 5 aka ...WebOS
@neffscape Please tell me: Where is WebOS superior? Look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdGyZYrix9g
At 1:00 you see the only advantage of WebOS over Symbian S60 and how it will look in Symbian^3.
@neffscape
Good luck.
@user47alpha
WebOS is far superior in ergonomics, innovation, vision and style. Symbian 3 looks just like another desperate attempt to give symbian an android-like interface without having an original idea and a good vision for the future (that reminds me of Samsung Bada, to be honest). Palm is now struggling to survive but has a treasure under the hood. Buying Palm and gaining its expertise could be a big deal for Nokia who's late in this war between mobile operating systems. WebOS is now a mature platform for smartphones which only suffers because of Palm difficulty to plan a good selling strategy in the US and around the world (the Pre was never really introduced in Europe).
@neffscape said:
"Palm is now struggling to survive but has a treasure under the hood."
It has a cute UI, but nothing to treasure, IMO... UI means little if the app frameworks are simplistic. Gimme Symbian's multiple toolkit support, Flash enabled browsers, and JBak Taskman over the WebOS cards anyday. Cards may be cute, but task management and switching is all about speed, seeing the most info at once, and being in control of all tasks, hidden or not. So keep your glitter and failure, WebOS. Real smartphoners know the difference.
"Buying Palm and gaining its expertise could be a big deal for Nokia who's late in this war between mobile operating systems."
Hmmm. Buy Palm, who haven't attracted many customers even in the US, much less anywhere else? No thanks. Maybe the Palm name, but not the immature OS. But how is Nokia late to the game? They have the first TWO FULLY open mobile OSes, invented the modern smartphone sector, and have been the leaders since I can't remember.
The media will tell you different, but mature markets and consumers don't lie. Symbian fits most people's needs better, and is the world's fave. If Symbian devices were easily accessible in the US in larger quantities, they'd run it here, too, sooner or later. Choice wins every time. We'll see this in the next 24 months...
"WebOS is now a mature platform for smartphones which only suffers because of Palm difficulty to plan a good selling strategy in the US and around the world (the Pre was never really introduced in Europe)."
Mature after a couple years?! Symbian is the only mature OS besides Windows Phone Classic, and the new simpler UI will only help it grow even more. WebOS is the LEAST mature of the OSes! Where's the advanced app frameworks? Where's the battery managment? Where's the memory optimization? Can it run without a dedicated GPU very well? These are where OSes show maturity. A UI is nothing but a skin.
Symbian outsells WebOS in the US in 18 months, promise. WebOS as a lofty idea, but just too far behind to come close to where Nokia is today, at maybe 14 times more devices sold. They have US carriers on board this year, and that means more commercials and subsidies. Soon Nokia won't be denied, and everyone will eat their words.
@christexaport
I'm not questioning that nokia is able to sell its products and has a good reputation. I'm not of course denying also that Nokia was the first company producing smartphones (someone remembers the communicator?) and that Symbian has been for a long time the best operating system for phones... but hey, that was before the iPhone-era, which introduced a new way to imagine smartphones. In the past two years Nokia showed no ideas and no vision about its platforms: Symbian 3 is the first attempt of nokia to regain its kingdom, but it's imho too similar to Android and I cannot see anything "fresh and cool" that blows me away. Even if Maemo (MeeGo) is a fantastic OS, it's not ready and it won't be ready before the end of the year (and it will be probably targeted to bigger devices, like netbooks, tablets and mids). When I say that Symbian is late, I mean that Symbian is late for THIS generation of phones. Nokia is not ready to compete with iPhone-like devices right now, and as we've seen next iterations of Symbian won't try to challenge the way that iPhone designed for this generation of phones. Playing this game, Palm's WebOS is more corageous and far ahead because what it provides is available today, in a phone who's on the market. WebOS was able to show us a couple of great innovations: card interface, multitasking (over 50 apps running at the same time), Synergy, gestures etc.
Imho if it's not a successiful OS it's only because of Palm reputation, and their inability to sell in and outside the US. A WebOS powered Nokia smartphone would be imho capable of changing the market. I'm not sure a new symbian phone would do the same.
So they haven't yet finished ^3 and are working on ^4!?
This just seems to cement my view that Symbian is a cartoon platform that just doesn't seem to be designed for anyone but teenagers.
Change the ****ing font already.
Seems fake. You're giving awfully alot of credit to this.
This looks okay, considering how Symbian is right now. However, when will Nokia release phones with this updates OS? Will users with previous premium phone like the N97 be able to upgrade? And can Nokia keep enough attention to both Symbian AND Meego? It's not like Apple/Google/Microsoft stay still waiting for Nokia to catch up.
Symbian is pretty much Dead-Man-Walking.
It's only a matter of time before iPhone and Android take over.
- Sent from my Nexus One
@Johnny Rockets
I guess your wait for that happen will be as long as the current wait for an 'iPhone killer' - you cant kill apples with oranges.
S60 5th. Maemo 5. MeeGo. Symbian^3. Symbian^4. So many Nokia operating systems, so few reasons to spend $500 on a shitty Nokia handset.
@kenny goo
Don't forget phones still selling with S60v3 and S60v2. No wonder Nokia's strategy seem so schizophrenic; they're supporting half a dozen mobile operating systems.
They need to take the tough decision and winnow it down to just one.
@Johnny Tremaine
I forget sometimes that their only affordably priced handsets are still running old versions of S60. I'll be honest, I like them moving Symbian OS to the Symbian "Platform" with this Symbian^X shit, but they're naming and developing schedule is all sorts of fucked up. Not to mention we still have Maemo 5 and MeeGo to worry about which is a HUGE mistake in my opinion.
@kenny goo said:
"S60 5th. Maemo 5. MeeGo. Symbian^3. Symbian^4. So many Nokia operating systems, so few reasons to spend $500 on a shitty Nokia handset."
I'm not surprised you're confused. Blame the carriers, since all you know is what they tell you.
S60x is just a name for the UI on top of Symbian, much like SenseUI, designed by Nokia. 5th Edition is the touch version of that UI, but its basically just S60 3rd Touch Edition, to put it simply. It will be replaced by Symbian^4, which will introduce a new UI paradigm and be completely open source this winter. It is a smartphone OS, and will be like MeeGo Lite, running most of the same apps. It will be in low to midrange hardware, and will usually be $175-475 unlocked.
Maemo5 is Linux with a finger controlled UI, also designed by Nokia. It is being merged with Moblin OS and called MeeGo going forward. Maemo6 is the foundation for the MeeGo Handheld UI, and Maemo is just a branding used by Nokia, though it may ceased to be used going forward, and be strictly MeeGo. MeeGo is a desktop class OS, running on netbooks and PCs, set top boxes, phones, MIDS, or anything running an ARM or x86 processor, which is almost anything. It will only be in high end hardware at $475+.
Now was that hard? All this stuff was on Engadget. Maybe the iPosts drowned the info out.
@kenny goo said:
"I forget sometimes that their only affordably priced handsets are still running old versions of S60."
What?! Nokia sold more touchscreen devices than anyone else in the world, and most were cheap touch models under $289, like the 5235, 5230, 5800, and 5530. You'll see a few of these coming to TMobile and possibly at&t this year, maybe at under $89 on contract. There aren't very many non touch devices selling except the Eseries business models, and they're far from low end.
"I'll be honest, I like them moving Symbian OS to the Symbian "Platform" with this Symbian^X shit, but they're naming and developing schedule is all sorts of fucked up. Not to mention we still have Maemo 5 and MeeGo to worry about which is a HUGE mistake in my opinion."
The OS is still called Symbian OS. The S^x nomenclature is just version naming, since the S60 x naming and UI are both dead after this year. Maemo 5 was to be replaced by Maemo6, but will now be called MeeGo instead, bringing parts of the Moblin netbook OS architecture with it, which will be little, since they were basically the same parts anyway, save the UI layers. So from the outside, its still the same thing, just a new name and development partner in Intel.
Most Americans are smartphone lovers, so MeeGo may be too advanced for you. (I'm an American, but have always been ahead of the curve on mobile tech.) Symbian is for smartphones, MeeGo is for mobile computers with more grunt.
Still confused? If so, get an iPhone and call me back in a year...
@christexaport
Lol, how cute. He explains this to me like I don't already know this. I don't believe anything I've said dictates that I didn't know what all of those mobile OSes were. There's a reason why I didn't mention Symbian^1 because it's the rebranded version of S60 5th, and I didn't mention OS v9.4 because it's the non-skinned version of S60 5th.
In other words, cut the condescending bullshit. Nokia isn't managing these different operating systems, revisions, and naming conventions because the carriers are telling them to. They're doing it because they don't know how to unify a brand name and an upgrade development path like every other major OS out there. It amazes me sometimes as to why they hold top spot with marketshare, though it's obvious that's declining.
As an aside, the N97 and N97 Mini running S60 5th retail for $540 and $550 respectively (originally $700 and $580) on Nokia's own site. So any time you want to stop lying about the $175 to $475 price range bullshit and actually acknowledge how expensive Nokia's handsets are, you're more then welcome to.
Hell, you can find that information on Endgadget too. They had a number of posts about the N97 Mini's relatively recent US launch. Though I guess all of these "iPosts" are making it hard for you to keep up with the news too now huh?
@christexaport
The N86 and N85 retail for $350 and $320 on their site, but only come with S60 3rd FP2 which is based on OS v9.3 (released in 2006). If that's not bad enough, the E72 retails for $360 and runs on the original S60 3rd which is based on OS v9.1 (which came out in 2005). In other words, Nokia is selling three handsets for over $300 that run on versions of an operating system that pre-date the existence of Android, the iPhone, WebOS, and Windows Mobile 6.
And no. It's not called "Symbian OS". When Nokia purchased Symbian they made the organization non-profit and changed it to the Symbian "Platform". S60 5th (and subsequently OS 9.4) we renamed as Symbian^1 of the Symbian "Platform". Symbian^2 was supposed to be released open source to developers but got skipped, now the first Symbian^3 handsets should be coming this year, but we're already talking about Symbian^4 because Nokia doesn't have a clue on how to manage and upgrade an operating system.
And let's get one thing straight here. The N900 is a smartphone. Not a computer, not a tablet, not a mobile internet device. It's a fucking cell phone. Is was originally (and stupidly) priced at $650 like a computer, and it's big, heavy, and doesn't fit particularly well in your pocket like a tablet or MID, but it's still a fucking cell phone. A cell phone, not a "mobile computer with more grunt" that is running Maemo 5.
You know what the LG GW900 is? It's a god damn cell phone. Again, cut the condescending bullshit. You're not some brilliant man who is capable of understanding technology far to advanced for us. You're a nerd on a tech site just like everyone else. Get over it.
@kenny goo said:
"I don't believe anything I've said dictates that I didn't know what all of those mobile OSes were. There's a reason why I didn't mention Symbian^1 because it's the rebranded version of S60 5th, and I didn't mention OS v9.4 because it's the non-skinned version of S60 5th."
Well, when you say, "S60 5th. Maemo 5. MeeGo. Symbian^3. Symbian^4. So many Nokia operating systems," you're just guilty of double talk and spin, since you know good and well you just spewed names for what amount to two OSes. How is two "So many"?!? I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, because its not hard to figure out, though you make it seem so.
Maybe its like two apps is "too many" to run at once on an iPhone...
"Nokia isn't managing these different operating systems, revisions, and naming conventions because the carriers are telling them to."
Of course not. Symbian is an open OS, and many partners contribute code and ideas, not just Nokia. MeeGo, maybe, since just Intel and Nokia lead its development, but since its Linux, most of its parts are actually parts kept updated by the open software community, such as Gstreamer and PulseAudio.
"They're doing it because they don't know how to unify a brand name"
Hmmm... they have the 5th most recognized and valueable brand in the world! Sure you know what you're talking about? Or are you aware your mouth is running at all?
"and an upgrade development path like every other major OS out there. It amazes me sometimes as to why they hold top spot with marketshare, though it's obvious that's declining."
Symbian updates every 6 months, give or take. And that's simple. What other OSes are major?! None have more than half of Symbian's share. Talk to me when one reaches 25%. Symbian had 65% at one time, and sits pretty at around 40% today after a 5% increase last quarter. That's nearly the entire Android market worth of growth in one quarter. Nothing is as major. When your smartphone synopsis looks past the UI to the plumbing under the hood, you'll see why Symbian is tops.
"As an aside, the N97 and N97 Mini running S60 5th retail for $540 and $550 respectively (originally $700 and $580) on Nokia's own site. So any time you want to stop lying about the $175 to $475 price range bullshit and actually acknowledge how expensive Nokia's handsets are, you're more then welcome to."
Ok. How much are the Cseries models releasing at CeBIT? Bet their under $225 in a couple months. Nokia is always higher than other etailers.
How much is the 5235?
$289 with free CWM unlimited music service included, maybe $75 less without.
5230?
$189 http://www.mobilecityonline.com/wireless/store/productdetail.asp?productid=25732&refid=froogle&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_term=NOK5230BLEU&utm_campaign=froogle
5800?
$236 http://www.techforless.com/cgi-bin/tech4less/002J900?mv_pc=google_base&tts=20100226023700
5530?
$189 http://www.techforless.com/cgi-bin/tech4less/002J900?mv_pc=google_base&tts=20100226023700
N97 Mini?
Put that in your pipe and smoke, please. Crack is dangerous, but Nokia is here to save you.
I keep up with all mobile news, and write quite a bit of it as well, so you know. BTW, Symbian's naming wasn't just a renaming, but a rewriting of the APIs as well. It never takes 2 years to rename anything...
"And let's get one thing straight here. The N900 is a smartphone. Not a computer, not a tablet, not a mobile internet device. It's a fucking cell phone. Is was originally (and stupidly) priced at $650 like a computer, and it's big, heavy, and doesn't fit particularly well in your pocket like a tablet or MID, but it's still a fucking cell phone. A cell phone, not a "mobile computer with more grunt" that is running Maemo 5."
I only paid $495 for mine, but I preordered and didn't get it from Nokia. I'm not for app stores or phone stores. I just search online for a price I want to pay and do it my way. Use your head and you'll get deals, too.
The N900 isn't a smartphone, either. It is a computer with a Phone application for calling. It runs the same Linux on your cool friends' netbooks, with a finger controlled UI on top. Ever used Ubuntu? Now go to the N900 and tell me the difference? Ask Mozilla why they put Firefox on the N900 first. Why isn't it a computer? Because it doesn't have a mouse? Were the 770, N800, N810, and N810 WME smartphones too? You make a big fool of yourself with that part, buddy...
"You know what the LG GW900 is? It's a god damn cell phone. Again, cut the condescending bullshit. You're not some brilliant man who is capable of understanding technology far to advanced for us. You're a nerd on a tech site just like everyone else. Get over it."
It runs Moblin, originally a netbook OS. I've run Moblin on my desktop PC as well. Have you ever used Linux? Or Maemo/Moblin? Know any smartphone OSes running GTK+, Python (and not PyS60), Qt, and use Pulse Audio and Gstreamer? Doesn't sound like it. I'm not a brilliant man capable of deciphering tech others can't. You just make me look like this. I'm no nerd, but am a geek, and you're obviously out of your league in the Linux space with me.
Know your role, Jabroni.
@christexaport
While S60 5th represents Symbian^1, it's still under a separate generation and set up from Symbian^X. Maemo on the other hand comes from a line of MIDs, yet Maemo 5 was custom fitted to a cell phone, and is thus its own OS. MeeGo is not just the successor to Maemo, it's also a bi-product of Moblin development, and is therefore it's own product as well. While Symbian^4 would have been the successor to Symbian^3, their overlapping development schedules and releases segment the two of them.
You can say all you want, but Nokia is the only company in the mobile OS world that has such a fucked up OS strategy. Period. Also, nice job dodging how you not only blamed consumer understanding of Symbian/Maemo on carriers but then tried to claim my ignorance when I clearly know as much as you do about this. Oh and your iPhone knock makes you look like raving fanboy. Seriously dude, I don't like the iPhone either. Stop bringing it in this conversation, it makes you look like an ass and is 100% irrelevant to the conversation at hand.
Here's the deal with Symbian. It has the largest mobile OS marketshare right now, but that's not due to the US, EU, and JP markets. That's due to emerging markets where Symbian sells handsets by the ass load. Their marketshare continues to decline (down another 5.5% last year), and will only continue to decline if they don't change things around. As for Nokia as a whole, they've also lost significant mindshare in the US, EU, and JP, and continue to rely on emerging markets to combine for that large marketshare.
Wow. You're really good at dodging comments eh? Obviously a number of Symbian handsets don't meet your $175-$475 range (Nokia has launched a number in the last few years above that range including the N97 ($700), N97 Mini ($580), and N86 ($500)). Anytime you wanna acknowledge that you're wrong I'd appreciate it.
Okay. This is the last time I'm gonna say it because we're clearly getting nowhere with this topic: the N900 is a smartphone, not a computer. Using Linux =/= being a computer. Motorola has a number of pretty low end Linux handsets in China. That doesn't make them "mobile computers" in the sense that they're an tablet PC or an UMPC. Not to mention the fact that Linux is the basis for both Android and Maemo. Does that make the HTC Tatto a "mobile computer"?
I'm pretty sure the GW900 falls into the same boat. I wont even bother repeating myself with that. You can know all you want about Linux, but it doesn't change the fact you're denying the common naming conventions that the entire consumer market at large is using.
@kenny goo said:
"While S60 5th represents Symbian^1, it's still under a separate generation and set up from Symbian^X."
S^1,2, AND 3 are all the foundation of 5th Edition. Remember, 5th Edition is the UI labelling system. S^4 will be the first non 5th Edition OS, using the new Direct UI with Orbit, powered by Qt with hardware accelerated graphics. You've made a bevy of mistakes describing the nature of the OS' naming, but being having done analysis on smartphone industry for 4 years, 2 exclusively focused on Symbian, contributing to many tech resources as an editorial writer, device reviewer, and market analyst, I'm confident I've given you a clear view.
Whether your goal is to bait me into useless arguing is undecided, but debating the status and origin of Symbian builds helps us little. The major point is they are all backward compatible minus touchscreen control, and all run the same apps, and share their Qt app catalog with MeeGo. This is their biggest advantage, akin to the iPhone running all of the MacOSX software. Nothing is even in its class on that level.
"Maemo on the other hand comes from a line of MIDs, yet Maemo 5 was custom fitted to a cell phone, and is thus its own OS. MeeGo is not just the successor to Maemo, it's also a bi-product of Moblin development, and is therefore it's own product as well."
Maemo is Linux. Period. Not "based on" Linux or "running atop" Linux. FULL Linux, with the only finger controlled UI for a full desktop OS. Its not new, and wasn't designed as a phone OS at all, but a pocket computing OS. Maemo5 just updated the UI and added a Phone app. We already know its its own OS, genius, but its not a smartphone OS. Only one smartphone OS can run on x86, and that's Android. Maemo/MeeGo is the OS for a new class of device on par with OSX, Windows, Ubuntu, etc., but versatile enough to fit in your pocket and retain all of its features.
Since I'm senior editor of Maemo-Freak and an active Maemo.org and MeeGo community member, let me share this nugget. MeeGo IS Maemo. Maemo6 is the foundation for MeeGo's Handheld UI. The only Moblin part is now GTK+ is fully supported going forward, and not community supported. The merger was mainly to prevent Intel and Nokia duplicating work on integrating Gstreamer, Pulse Audio, Telepathy, Gnome, Mozilla, SQ Lite, and all of the other open source infrastructure projects. It saves them money and brings all of the Moblin netbook hardware manufacturers like Dell and others in as partners. As you can see, both were the same Linux OS underneath, just with separate UI philosophies and roadmaps. Now, Moblin will get Maemo's Qt based UI toolkit and app frameworks, making Moblin and Maemo identical from the outside as well, unifying developers of both OSes.
" While Symbian^4 would have been the successor to Symbian^3, their overlapping development schedules and releases segment the two of them."
You're seem confused. While S^4 will succeed S^3, it won't lose total compatibility since they both support Qt, the future of mobile and desktop app development. There is no segmentation at all. As long as developers use the open toolkits available with Qt, there is no issue for the end user. Qt marries MeeGo to Symbian and desktop development, which is an ecosystem far greater than typical smartphone OSes can offer, and the advantage will become evident in the coming three quarters.
"You can say all you want, but Nokia is the only company in the mobile OS world that has such a fucked up OS strategy. Period."
That's weird, since most analysts see Nokia's strategy as forward looking and advantageous. Will I trust them, common sense, or you? Hmmm...
"Also, nice job dodging how you not only blamed consumer understanding of Symbian/Maemo on carriers but then tried to claim my ignorance when I clearly know as much as you do about this."
I don't blame consumer understanding of Symbian on carriers, but awareness of underlying tech. Big difference. We're a lagging market because we're in a learning phase, while the rest of the world is on more advanced features.
"Here's the deal with Symbian. It has the largest mobile OS marketshare right now, but that's not due to the US, EU, and JP markets. That's due to emerging markets where Symbian sells handsets by the ass load."
Nokia has led in the EU for years now. They also run EPAC, Africa, China, Russia, Brazil, And India, though not Japan, which runs a proprietary cell system reliant on boutique OEMs like Sharp and Fujitsu. But please tell me ANY market or region where Symbian is not the massive favorite besides the US, where carriers blocked access and prohibited self marketing. And Nokia sold twice as many converged devices as the next competitor, and Symbian powered even more when factoring in Fujitsu, Sony Ericsson, Samsung, and others will be making devices as well. Keep in mind Symbian is free, and those guys represent a huge percentage of production capacity.
"Their marketshare continues to decline (down another 5.5% last year), and will only continue to decline if they don't change things around. As for Nokia as a whole, they've also lost significant mindshare in the US, EU, and JP, and continue to rely on emerging markets to combine for that large marketshare."
Your inexperience and market awareness was just exposed with that quote. While they lost YoY, that trend was soundly reversed, where they GAINED 5.3% in Q4'09 alone! That gain nearly matches Android's entire marketshare! Nokia's supply chain and vendor support is unmatched
"Obviously a number of Symbian handsets don't meet your $175-$475 range (Nokia has launched a number in the last few years above that range including the N97 ($700), N97 Mini ($580), and N86 ($500))."
Those were all released Pre-N900, and if you search online, you'll see now that these devices are in fact available fully unlocked for prices under $475. I should mention I've owned two of the three along with the N900 I use today. I've given you examples before, but you'll have to search for yourself this time.
"Anytime you wanna acknowledge that you're wrong I'd appreciate it."
LOL! ROFL! You're a riot!
"Okay. This is the last time I'm gonna say it because we're clearly getting nowhere with this topic: the N900 is a smartphone, not a computer. Using Linux =/= being a computer. Motorola has a number of pretty low end Linux handsets in China. That doesn't make them "mobile computers" in the sense that they're an tablet PC or an UMPC. Not to mention the fact that Linux is the basis for both Android and Maemo. Does that make the HTC Tatto a "mobile computer"?"
Here's the big difference. Those Linux devices by Motorola just use the Linux kernel to run other ware on top, like a host for a VM, in abstract terms. Android did this as well, forking PARTS of Linux, mainly the kernel, but removing and reinventing the parts that a typical experienced Linux developer could take advantage of. But modern Linux distros used on desktops today use open parts, like window managers, sound servers, and app frameworks. Maemo and Moblin followed this route and helped optimize and contribute to those parts so they run efficiently in an ARM or x86 platform efficiently. They were the only FULL Linux OSes out there for mobile. Development for any typical Linux distro and MeeGo will be identical, save the UI designs can be optimized for finger conrol or desktop control. They definitely are tablet PCs, or pocket workstations, as I call my N900.
You should try Ubuntu or Mint on a desktop and use an N900, and compare the two. Or ask a Linux desktop developer for their opinion.
"I'm pretty sure the GW900 falls into the same boat."
Pretty sure? Well it was demoed running Moblin with a custom UI. Now that Moblin is MeeGo, and the GW900 is a handheld device, it will get the basic parts of the Maemo6 designed, Qt powered Handheld UI. The inner parts were always the same. Moblin's were just for x86 and Maemo's for ARM. From that standpoint, tis is the important part. Its running full Linux, from the kernel to the sound server, the same modules from desktop Linux! It IS an UMPC, only with built in cellular network capabilities, a totally new class of device.
So obviously our knowledge level on this subject is far from equal, and I must say I'm offended you'd even imply such a thing! Pah! LOL!
"I wont even bother repeating myself with that. You can know all you want about Linux, but it doesn't change the fact you're denying the common naming conventions that the entire consumer market at large is using."
Why is a naming convention any consumer's business? Symbian and Nokia are now separate entities, and ALL members contribute to the OS' direction. If they are the industry leaders, and they want a low to midrange OS and a high end OS for serious work and hacker types, and they will share them both, free, to anyone that wants to use it, and they own 50% of the world's production capacity...
THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY LIKE.
All consumers will notice is the UIs of all Nokia devices have a similar navigation aspect and feel to them, and share most of the same apps. And don't forget, Qt apps can be run in Windows, too. This unites Nokia's portfolio of devices in ways Apple, Google, Microsoft, and others could only dream of. And this is before the first Meego TV is launched! From Symbian handsets to MeeGo pocket workstations to the Booklet 3G, Qt apps will be there. And now you're starting to get it I hope.
@christexaport
I feel like we've gotten a bit far off the beat and path here. The fact is that while the various Nokia operating systems and naming schemes may have a number of similarities and connections, they're still fighting a loosing fight by segmenting their mobile strategy like this. They still sell devices that are labeled as S60, not Symbian^1. They left a stop gap by skipping Symbian^2 and going to Symbian^3, but before we can even get the first Symbian^3 device, they're already showing off Symbian^4. You're honestly going to sit here and tell me that's a smart idea? That it's in their best interest to overlap development and release schedules for their mobile OS like that? Do you really thinks that's beneficial to anyone?
No. It's not. That's the point I originally made here. You can break it down all you want (because you've clearly spent a bit of time involved with this stuff), but you represent a very, very, very small part of the consumer population, and there's a reason that Symbian marketshare has continued to plummet over the last few years in the wake of operating systems that actually know how to balance usability with being consumer friendly. Even in Europe, where you claim Symbian "dominates", we've seen Android and the iPhone have substantial growth.
As for Maemo, fine. You wanna call two products that are give or take the size of a large cell phone, that can make phone calls, that are both held up to your head like a phone, and have mobile telecommunications radios inside of them "mobile comupters"? Fine. You defy common logic and do that. The point is that not only did Nokia chose to bring their tablet operating system into the mix here, but they chose to bring the "name" into the mix. It would have been smart to call this Symbian "Plus" or Symbian "Pro" once they bought Symbian Ltd to keep the brand name strong. Instead they segment things further. This whole MeeGo vs Maemo 6 thing doesn't help much either. Integrate Moblin with it. Fine. But don't change the name *yet again*.
The problem now with the Symbian^X platform is that their releases are overlapping. I don't know about the minute, inner workings of Symbian^3 and Symbian^4 and frankly it's irrelevant. Showing off one before the other even has a chance to release is going to cannibalize it. It's the same problem WinMo had last year. Who give a shit about 6.5 if we know 7 is right around the corner? That's the problem here.
As for Symbian marketshare, it's on a global decline. That's a fact. And no. Symbian didn't see a 5%+ marketshare increase in Q4. Nokia saw a 5%+ increase in smartphone sales. While that's all good and dandy, if everyone else is selling better, faster, that number is irrelevant. It's surprising that someone so far into Symbian/Maemo would have his number's confused. There was an article on Endaget about it the other day.
This price talk is the last point I wanna make before I forget. While I'm sure you can find some decent sales on Newegg or Tiger Direct, the face of Nokia's prices comes from their own site. Sure, if you're really good with that type of stuff, you can find cheaper prices, but that's not the bar, Nokia's prices are. I can do some searching and get a 360 hard drive for cheap, but that doesn't change what Microsoft's MSRP on them is. And I can get an iPod Touch for cheap, but the still sell at stupid prices on Apple's own site.
Look I'm rooting for Symbian; they're an underdog at this point, which is ironic considering their dominating position in the market on simple T9 button phones.
Nokia and Symbian's major problems at this point is that cell phones and 'mobile computing' are now all about the software---the OS and applications. Nokia ruled the roost in world when only hardware mattered. Not anymore. Yes, they still have that 40-something market share mainly in emerging markets, but that will be sliding year over year.
I think the death blow for Symbian is that they can't get major developers to write popular applications for them. The big developers are working on applications for the iPhone, Android, Blackberry and the coming Windows Phone (largely due to Microsoft throwing a lot of cash around). Developers go where the money is; unfortunately for Nokia, developers don't care about writing applications for S40 or S60, for users in second or third world markets.
The Ovi store is a barren desert and the whole hacking-your-Nokia-to-get-unsigned-applications should also be an embarrassment for them.
@Johnny Tremaine
"mainly in emerging markets"?!
How about ALL markets? They are first in most markets, except the rare market where they are second, and by single percentage points. They are only lacking the US market, and that is because carriers keep them locked out. That changes this year, and we'll see what the market really wants.
Oh great.... Just what we need. Another smartphone OS.
After WinPhone7 everything else just......old.
This is dumb. Why are they trying to reinvent the wheel with another OSS phone system? Android already does all this stuff fundamentally and has momentum and a great developer base. Why not just fork Android for the new Nokia phones, improve the design where you see fit and submit the cool stuff to be backported into the main trunk? Nokia is shooting themselves in the foot here. Too much duplicated and wasted developer time IMO.
@skyshock21
Then by your logic Google needs to move to Symbian since Symbian already did all the things Android does fundamentally, years before Android was ever written! lol
I think it has been answered many times on this blog why Nokia will not go for Android.
@skyshock21
Android isn't really fully open. Symbian is truly open, like MeeGo, using open practices for contributions. Android uses Linux for the kernel, but ditched the parts that don't help them dominate services for proprietary parts.
@naashak
Er, no, your reply makes zero sense. Symbian didn't decide to become open source until Android came along. There would have been no way for Google to use Symbian otherwise. And why would they? Symbian over the years has become such a regrettable pile of putrid spaghetti code it would take Google years to sort it all out. Google figured they could do better by starting from scratch, and they have.
@christexaport
Since you seem to have no clue what you're talking about, allow me to fill you in. Here's Android's source code - http://android.git.kernel.org/ Anyone can develop for it, fork it, submit patches, and use it however they want. It is fully open. Google is a top 10 contributor to the Linux Kernel - http://lwn.net/Articles/222773/ and Nokia lags behind them in contributions to the kernel.
As long as they're dragging a shitload of different operating systems behind them at the same time Nokia is just fighting a war on too many fronts.
Would make it so much easier to have just one Symbian version for the low-end products and one Maemo/MeeGo-Version for the high-end line.
Unfortunately the title of the article hits the spot. This seems to fail on so many levels. I mean, Symbian developers had almost forever to develop a decent mobile OS since S60 and then they give us this... thing.
Of course I understand, that this is not a finished version and is something like a sneak preview. But, for all that is still holy in this world, try to give us something!
Of course, in the 1st video: how about if I want my widget at the edge of the screen/slightly off screen? Then this WM will force a slide animation--that can be annoying (already is with Android and iPhone). Slide gestures and touch drags are starting to get less intuitive.
It look annoyingly similar to Android and Samsung's Bada and some resemblance to the iPhone. These companies except those folks in Redmond don't innovate anymore for some reason. It seem that Andriod, Bada, and Symbian all want to be the iPhone. The biggest breakthrough since the original iPhone released in 2007 is Windows Phone 7. The only way to beat the iPhone is to introduce something totally new and provide better experiences than the iPhone and not try to copy it. Microsoft have done just that, giving it a big chance to succeed.
Does someone really want the Photo Puzzle ? Useless for me and for a lot of people I think...
If Nokia had designed this UI when I was 16 (ten years ago - mind you) I would have been blown away at it's intuitive design and industry-leading features. Now - I cant even be bothered to make a ... oh screw it.
This doesn't fail to WoW (just as Vista did), it does simply FAIL.
this is just like Samsungs dumb OS.
Agreed. I want that for all my PCs :D
The interface looks boring but they are Nokia they will get it right eventually I hope. I'm getting an E71 soon the OS is outdated but its a sexy phone. By the way is there an Engadget app for Symbian?!
@matthype
Never gunna happen.
@ everyone else with the "buy Palm" lines. If shit was that easy, I think it would be done by now. I'm sure Palm won't come cheap and they have a lot of debt to senior bondholders. I highly doubt that they will take their only differentiating factor "web os" and lease it to anyone, ever. Nokia is not quite ready to throw away all their work and research on a gamble (they ain't Kenny Rogers level quite yet. I think there is room for all these devices but I must say Palm has to make some less shitty hardware in terms of looks, and build quality and Nokia needs a little glamour (like an alright looking girl who needs to dress slutty).