JooJoo refund issues creating some bad juju
By Nilay Patel 
posted March 16th 2010 3:01PM
posted March 16th 2010 3:01PM
Given the legally-disputed origins of the JooJoo and the current shipping delays, you'd think Fusion Garage would scrupulously maintain a squeaky-clean image with its customers as it leads up to launch, but it looks like it wasn't quite prepared to handle refunds in a sensible way -- we just confirmed that the company asked a customer for his bank account information in order to deposit a refund directly after running into some troubles with PayPal. Here's the relevant exchange:Fusion Garage tells us that this customer actually changed his mind about getting a refund several times, and that they've only had three customers with refund issues, all of which were related to problems with PayPal issuing credit long after pre-orders were placed. While it's uncommon here in the States (and obviously this buyer wasn't keen on it), bank to bank transfers are the norm in Europe and widely used for the wiring of cash across international lines. Clearly after the issues with PayPal, however, the idea of handing over bank details doesn't seem appealing in this case. We'll see how everyone feels when that promised March 25 ship date rolls around, and we'll let you know what happens with Rony and his refund when we find out more. Maybe next time just mail a check, guys."Support Joojoo" wrote:
Dear Rony,
We have checked this at our end and there seems to be a problem with
refunding via paypal.
To avoid any further wait time, could you send us your bank name, bank
account name, bank account number, sort or swift code and your bank address.
We will have a direct transfer done to your bank account. If you could
provide us the details today, we will ensure that the refund hits your bank
account by friday of this week.
Please advise . Sorry for the inconvenience caused.
I see what you did there.
"Please advise . Sorry for the inconvenience caused."
...Please advise? :)
Headline news:
"It was revealed today that an internet spam terrorist group infiltrated the shipping warehouse before the JooJoo tablet made it into a shipping companies' hands. The table would have reached it's target date to beat the iPad to market, however this action put a kink in things.
Upon customers getting weary and wanting refunds for their 2-month-old pre-orders, it was learned that the groups' true intentions were to steal bank account info from the JooJoo tablet customers during the refund process. Only then was their plot foiled."
.....just wait...lol
@One Love "Please advise" is used pretty often in corporate offices. It's white-collar speech for "What would you like me to do?" What I hate are people who use it incorrectly and say "Please advice."
@Engadget staff
Sometimes I think engadget posts these articles on the joojoo just so they can type the ridiculous name as opposed to having any actual interest in the device.
@One Love I remember this device creating some buzz along with the crunchpad last year, oh well anyway, I guess they are far from the limelight now that tablets are sprouting everywhere... Improvement is the key here. Reactions: http://is.gd/9YA1L
yep thats fine, the sort code it...61-24-.......waiiiiiittttt a minute.....
@commenter7 Would you like my social security while you are at it?
I think its SPAM!
I don't think it's that bad. It's almost them trying to hard you know (and that's not a bad thing), they're just trying to make sure the customer gets the refund as fast as possible, instead of having to wait for the paypal issue to be fixed.
@month : ...could you send me your bank name, bank
account name, bank account number, sort or swift code and your bank address?
@One Love That's all the standard info I have to give a company when they need to wire us money for our goods. You can't exactly use that info to take money out of an account, only put it in.
@donatom3 : I accept your challenge!...could you send me your bank name, bank account name, bank account number, sort or swift code and your bank address?
@month If JooJoo has issues with Paypal transfer, why don't they send a check in express mail, instead of asking sensitive information from the customers?
@month
sending money over paypal is super-easy...
@One Love How about instead of that you read up on it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_transfer
It's more dangerous for the person sending the money than the one receiving it.
@Liquidmark
"all of which were related to problems with PayPal issuing credit"
There was a problem. I know it's easy, learn to read.
@venkateshnt What I don't get is why there were any issues at all. If they couldn't reverse the transactions (that they probably shouldn't have been using Paypal for anyway since they couldn't ship a product yet), why couldn't they just send the money like any Joe Schmo does. done
@Charlik
It is pretty common in some parts of the world to give out bank details for wire transfers between businesses & customers. America tends to forget that in different parts of the world, people do things differently. Or maybe it's just that America just has a crapload more crooks pretending to do business.
I do freelance work here in Singapore sometimes and payment is mostly done via bank transfer; meaning I give them (companies and individuals) my personal info and in a day or 2 the money shows up in my account.
@month
Exactly what I was thinking. It seems they're just trying really hard.
I give out my bank details to everyone. What the hell's the big deal about it anyway?
As other commentators have stated it can only be used to put money in and without the relevant pin number it's useless. It's also much faster and more convenient than paypal.
I don't like this article at all, particularly: "it looks like it wasn't quite prepared to handle refunds in a sensible way"
Paypal was being screwy (easy to believe) and they're trying to find the easiest, fastest way around it. Seems pretty 'sensible' to me.
This is why I'm buying an iPad. Until the JooJoo gets some decent publicity, I'm going to wait on them
What? A device need decent publicity for you to make a purchase?
Are you expecting your status in society to increase after buying an iPad or JooJoo? :) What about hardware specs and performance?
How about waiting to see if/when/maybe it gets released and then making a decision...and after a decent Engadget review (and/or 2 months have passed for all the kinks to surface)
...or did you mean something else?
umm... they ever heard of just mailing the customers a check?
@RH
Check? WHAT'S THAT!?!?
@Robbie Hottie
Man, that's not GREEN. Doing it electronically is better for the environment. WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN? ;_;
@Gas
I'm thinking of the children. *winky face, winky face*
@Robbie Hottie
Yep. Sounds like a great idea. Have you ever received a foreign currency cheque? Wonder if you'd be happy paying the 20%-30% commission your bank charges you to cash it
@pukerocket
what are you talking about with foreign currency? its only been available to preorder in the US (https://thejoojoo.com/store/order/new). put the check in your bank account and its a done deal. even if you dont have a bank account, i would rather pay walmart $3 to cash a check than email someone my bank account information.
@pukerocket
oh ya, and i just though of something pretty obvious... even with a wire transfer *surprise, surprise* the bank is still going to charge you to convert the money to local currency. just saying
@Robbie Hottie
Wait, the bank charges to convert from one ELECTRONIC currency to another? wtf is that about? I could see there being a cost with a check due to processing and verifying origin and such, but a wire transfer should be straight euro -> dollar (or whatever currency)
@Gas
there weren't very many preorders to begin with- I think the nvironment could forgive a few pieces if paper being used. :)
It's just like doing an international bank transfer. This is the kind of information that is required to send money from bank to bank. Go to your bank and say you want to send money to somebody using a bank transfer and they'll have you fill out a form that asks for all this info.
@BuddhaBlessed
The apparent difference here is that it is being requested via e-mail.
@NHAnimator What's the difference of it being requested by email, phone, or fax? BuddhaBlessed is right, this is the standard info for a wire transfer. Kinda nice of JooJoo since it's probably costing them $15 to wire the money as well.
@donatom3
Could it be the fact that email is not a secure form of communication? Or the fact that phishing through email is far more common than through mail or phone? Or because email is harder to trace? Or...
@BigJayDogg3 There are some universities and corporations that have this information posted on their website. So that's open for anyone and everyone to see.
@BigJayDogg3
This info can only be used to transfer money into a bank account. You can not use this info to withdraw.
Learn to read.
@BuddhaBlessed maybe in the US it is somehow possible to get a money from a bank account if you know its numbers, but in the reste of the world we have *safe* banking systems enforced by regulations where it is impossible for a bank to get money from a bank account without proper authorization (two part authorization with a one-time pad or a code calculator or passport and a signature has to match the digital image of the signature on record).
Due to the regulations in my country I know that I can easily give away all my bank account numbers and the equivalent of the social security number and no one can do any financial harm to me without my physical passport and me being present and signing a legally binding paper with a signature that looks like the signature in my passport.
@TheSmartGuy
lrn2meme
Why make it that much easier for someone? My information alone is valuable. I don't know how long this company is going to keep this information.
People have accounts cleaned out with far less initial information. You won't tell me that if this information gets into an unsavory character's hands, they won't be able to capitalize. Yeah, yeah, we then enter into that whole bit about nothing is 100% safe, but again, why make it that much easier for criminals to obtain access to my account?
@BigJayDogg3
A phising email claiming to be from "Support JooJoo" when I coincidentally was one of the few people on the planet to have a support query with JooJoo (let alone order one!)?
These guys aren't the CIA. I don't know if you've ever seen spam, but this isn't it. Those guys you rejected were probably actually trying to pay you, sorry if you lost out.
PayPal has dramatically changed over the past few years - especially when dealing with eBay purchases. Essentially they are careful not to release funds OR issue refunds if there is any chance that they will somehow get caught in the middle, and thus financially screwed, by a situation. In selling something online recently, PayPal would not release payment to me (the seller) until the buyer had left positive feedback or 21 days had lapsed. It's sound business practice on their end, but it does make things a little difficult on the participants.
In this case, perhaps Fusion Garage should just have (solely) used a legitimate credit card processing company instead of messing around with PayPal.
Guys, guys, guys. This email isn't in all caps. It must be legit.
@balls
Besides, the CSR is really a Nigerian prince, who wants to send you his windfall most urgently...
This post made my day. Please don't misunderstand me- I don't wish any I'll will towards Fusion garage and their JooJoo. I just like it when Apple haters and others try to rally around a product to "stick it" to Apple and the Apple fans and things go awry.
Engadget: Will you buy an ipad?
You: No way!! It's so closed, worthless, doesn't have flash. I'll just wait for a JooJoo! JooJoo FTW!! Yay!!
Now all you need to do is give all your banking info of them to get your refund back. Whoops!
Of course, this could be false or could just blow over an JooJoo could become a product- in which case I'll look like a douche. Oh well. It wouldn't be the first time. HaHa. It's a risk I'm willing to take:)
Be sure to downgrade this.
@think before you react
Your comments doesn't match your username.
@Maj
oh yeah?? Well tour shirt doesn't match your pants!!
Read my 4th paragraph. It states that I may be early on my assumption and incorrect. I can't deny that the post still made me smile. Jackass.
@think before you react
... YOU'RE a jackass!
@think before you react
Who said anything about buying a Joojoo? There are several other tablets that will be coming out in the next few months.
And this still suffers from my biggest problem with the iPad. The fact that it's just too darn big to be useful. I'll still be carrying my laptop around, so a 7+ inch tablet/slate/Whatever you want to call it is useless for me. Had these device been smaller or been more useful, I'd buy one. They still suffer from the same problem PMPs have had for years.
@skylr616
Good one...
does the writer know that it can take up to 6 days before a credit hits your card?