It was patent-grantin' day at the USPTO on Tuesday, and while most of the patents handed out to Apple, HP, Microsoft and others were pretty boring, it looks like Apple patent number D613,300 is going to make some waves -- it's a design patent on Apple's Cover Flow UI element. That's a
design patent, not a utility patent, so it covers the look of the system and not its functionality; think of it as covering the distinctive shape of a Coke bottle and not how it works and you'll get it. That means Apple now has the ability to sue anyone using a system that looks "substantially similar" to Cover Flow, so
Symbian^3 and Songbird are probably in for some changes. We'll see what happens -- it's not like anyone's called the lawyers in. Yet.
P.S.- We were going to include the
HP Slate here, but we went back and
watched the video and ironically enough they're actually faking flick scrolling a Cover Flow view using iTunes -- an app that doesn't actually support flick scrolling. Sigh, HP.
posted April 8th 2010 11:11AM
Another one bites the dust
@chosenone1 Cover flow for iPads? Where is it?
@werty1432k cover flow will be used for multitasking later on.
@appleipad Multitasking coverflow? Doesn't make sense.....
And am I the ONLY ONE that noticed the album artwork in the pic is that of Coldplay's album X&Y???
@J1024
No you're not. That's actually the first thing i saw.
@questionexclamation You know how I know you're gay? .. You listen to Coldplay.
Hello Xbox Live...
@LiQuiDFuSioN Because someones taste in music determines their sexual orientation.
@HotFuzz
and foxtab.
@J1024 - Apple, and Steve specifically, seem to be big fans of them.
@chosenone1
CrApple have patented a slideshow that you can maybe click on sometime later. OMG, what idiot allowed THAT.
@J1024 I saw it straight off also.
@chosenone1 Whats sad is that if you turn the phone sideways while using Pandora....it looks JUST like that picture!!
@XChrisX I'm pretty sure he was quoting "40 year old virgian." Way to use that sense of humor.
@chosenone1
I think CoverFlow is cool, and looks cool. But I never use it for anything .. I prefer selecting from a list.
@XChrisX
Liquidfusion was quoting a scene from The 40 year old virgin
@J1024 No.
I hope it at least names the third-party developer they bought Cover Flow from.
@J1024 you know how i know your gay? you have coldplay on your iPhone
@LiQuiDFuSioN everyone chill out. he is quoting "40 year old virgin"
Oh god no, that is like giving the devil another pitch fork. Watch out future innovation Apple doesn't like competition.
@angermeans
No company in their right mind likes competition. The difference is that Apple is willing to use the law to stop competition rather than use their innovation and unique abilities to do so.
@angermeans
It's a bit strange to complain that this patent prevents innovation, when all it does is to prevent people from copying the feature, which is the exact opposite of innovation.
@preinvent That's not the difference at all. Microsoft files for tons of patents. So do HP, Sony, Samsung, HTC, Palm, Nokia, AT&T, and LG. Are they all abusing the system too?
@Bauer It also prevents people from expanding on the idea. Imagine that a patented steam engine was not made more efficient, just because it had a patent. While the original author was too lazy to do anything about it.
@angermeans As for future innovation, now companies that simply copied cover flow have an incentive to innovate new UIs. Also, this is a design patent. It has nothing to do with scientific advancement and everything to do with ornamental design. Design patents are also quite limited, giving potential infringers an easy out if they change at least one of the claimed design elements.
@Bauer
Actually, you might be unfamiliar with the patent system, but it's there to ENABLE businesses to compete by innovation. How can you compete by innovation when your competitors can shamelessly steal your ideas with no repurcussions? It often doesn't work, but it only falls down in court. I would argue that we need better patent judges and ruling guidelines from the government that make it clear that patent trolls are not participating in innovation and do not qualify for patent protection.
Oh, and I actually happen to know how Apple came up with coverflow. They bought it from an indie developer. They paid for it and rewarded the inventors for their innovation, and it makes perfect sense that they would want to protect the value of their purchase.
@Nilay Patel
It's more like the system is designed to be abused.
Can't blame the companies for sucking on the sweet and idiotic tits of the patent office can you?
@bioadam Yeah I agree and also I agree that they should of done that in the first place. I can't really give examples, but Apple did bring us the first real smartphone and that brought on years of "me too's" I am far from an expert in patents and I got a lot of information listening to Engadget's podcast a couple weeks ago (Thanks Nilay! Sounds like you really know your stuff) and it makes me realize that it isn't all black and white when it comes to patents in America. Still though I think that companies (not all) are so quick to sue and I really think it is stupid that there are companies that exist and make money by only suing other people for patents (I think they call it patent trolls, but I could be wrong) I am not saying Apple is doing this in any way at all, but this is getting a little out of hand. I just really see it as bullying the little guy. You can't just sue HTC and leave Palm, Motorola, Samsung, Microsoft etc when they are doing the same thing. Many smartphones look the same and have many of the same functions, but when you go after the one because they can't put up as good of a fight as the others is just silly and looks wrong. I have heard that Apple (behind closed doors) has sent out warnings stating that they are going to protect their intellectual property and if these companies took this and just ignored it then I don't know what to say. Apple would be forced to act to protect their rights. I think a lot is going on (or has gone on) behind the scenes that we as the public have never seen.
@preinvent
Patents do hurt innovation because some innovations build off of one innovative idea.. A good example that is easily seen is the patent that Namco that allows them to have minigames while the games loading. Think how much different the game industry would be if all developers were able to have that ability.
An example of something that'll never be done because this patent, is if you're playing through a game being able play a 2D side quest of the larger game and both of the stories progress in tandem. Or while the games loading for a multi-player everyone could play a retro game together while the match syncs...
This was all taken out by 1 company so instead of making gaming a more seamless atmosphere Namco screwed that up with their patent...
@Nilay Patel Actually yes...yes they are our system is so hokey though far be it from to come up with a better solution
@Bauer
If it weren't for patents, there would be no reason to innovate, as you know some other guy will steal your idea without all the hard work you paid.
As I said, it wasn't important anyway. However, I'd like to see if Google can patent the notification bar, and homescreen widgets placement, because those -unlike cover flow- are pretty important.
@angermeans
"You can't just sue HTC and leave Palm, Motorola, Samsung, Microsoft etc when they are doing the same thing."
Sure you can, you first target someone you find easy and if you win you move on targeting larger firms. Palm and Motorola both have large patent portfolios, so they will fight back, Samsung are one of their key suppliers and Microsoft has cross license agreement with Apple.
And the target can sue them back somewhere else, like in Europe or Asia, where software patent aren't valid with some defensive patents. And hope for a settlement and cross license agreement that's what I would do.
@Nilay Patel
Yes, Yes, Yes.... a 100 times Yes...... everyone gets lost in technicalities and forgets the bigger picture.....
Windows Mobile 7 is different than iPhoneOS because Microsoft didn't want to violate Apple's patent: they choose to innovate instead.
Can you understand that?
Patent are not that bad if they push MS to innovate :)
@Bauer How or organizing CD covers like that innovative? All ideas are built off ideas of the past, in this case it's very similar to some CD jukeboxes. He tweaked the jukebox idea (single stacks of cds on both sides) just like someone else could come up with the same interface independently by looking at a jukebox. Interface components should never be copyrighted, period. What if Xerox copyrighted menus, windows, icons, or even slate PCs (with the Dynabook.)
iBooks looks just like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delicious_Library or http://www.anobii.com or http://www.shelfari.com and many more that I'm sure I could find. There have been build in plug-ins for many graphics applications that do that 3d page curl since the early 90's, I know I've used it for animated gifs way back.
All ideas are stolen from past ideas and many problems can be deduced to the same conclusions. For the cds having stacks on each side is the simplest way to mechanize selecting a cd on a jukebox and this is based on stacks of pages on each side when reading a book and a book was a way to cram more pages together than scroll. Spontaneous new ideas simply don't exist without inspiration. No patents should exist because all of them give a monopoly and I can't think of a more anti-competitive idea. People want to make the coolest interfaces and hardware that people want to buy. Giving someone a monopoly over it only means there is no competition using that same idea or a similar idea out of fear of being sued and innovation stops.
@preinvent Really? So when Nokia suddenly sued Apple, it was Apple's fault? You IDIOT!
@KarlW and everyone else
Patenting does not necessarily foster innovation. This is a huge research issue for economists studying growth and innovation.
For example see,
http://www.micheleboldrin.com/research/innovation.html
It was inpractical either way.... flashy, but impractical.
@TareG
I agree, cover flow was used mainly to show off the capabilities of the core animation and quartz APIs, and it is not all that useful in most situations. It did inspire quite a few copy-cat UI schemes, so Apple's lawyers will be busy for a while.
@TareG I find Cover Flow useful once in a blue moon, to find a particular image in a giant folder of images. (Sometimes just making the icons gigantic isn't good enough.)
…But that's about it.
Now does this make sense? why would they allow a patent like this to even pass through!? I'd like to see who will have the next lawsuit come in..
LOL. Really? The USPTO needs to get their head out of their asses and laugh at these things. Likening it to the way a Coke bottle looks versus the function is ridiculous. What's next? Patenting the way a UI presents minimized windows as small thumbnails of the application? Apple is grasping at straws in some many ways right now it isn't even funny. I truly hope today's sneak peak is something spectacular otherwise I fear Apple will start the litigation mobile full time.
@Darkseider
I guess you didn't read the article, it's a *design* patent, not a utility patent. The criteria for the two are quite different.
@Darkseider The Coke bottle is pretty much the classic example of what a design patent covers. Why do you think it's ridiculous?
@Darkseider I feel exactly the same. Apple is in fact grasping at straws here, I feel that they can't (or won't) compete with some of these powerful 1ghz phones that are out (or coming out within the next few months) so they are suing to ensure that others won't pass them up. I totally agree in protecting ones intellectual property, but this is just silly. What PMP (or smartphone, pc, game device, etc) doesn't have some kind of coverflow type of thing already included in its software? I mean Apple (in my opinion) is just bullying smaller companies like HTC and letting other companies like Palm off the hook because they have the firepower and patents and they know that Apple has also infringed on some others that they don't own. This just makes Apple look like a big baby and it also makes them look scared. God, just make a great phone come June and people will buy it! You don't have to sue everyone that makes a phone with better features. I really think Apple just wants to have a monopoly in America when it comes to smartphones so they can force feed us minimal updates every year and charge us top dollar. I mean the 3G didn't have MMS or even a video camera! Come on that has nothing to do with hardware just software. Apple is making billions of dollars off of these phones, but now others are seeing that the "grass is greener" on the other side. So let's sue the other farmer cause all my cows are jumping the fence. Just take the time to make things better and people will stay. Seems simple to me, but it really makes me think that Apple really doesn't have a "A+" update on the horizon.
@angermeans Thank you SO much for saving me the time of posting. You summed up my thoughts and feelings exactly. Cookies for you!
@angermeans
You can look at my comment history and see that I'm no Apple fan to say the least but one thing is for sure... Apple need not compete with the 1Ghz phones because despite their lowered specs in speed, they still have the most fluid UI which still stands toe-to-toe with some of the Snapdragon boys now on the block. That's just fact and it can't be denied, not even by the most avid Apple hater.
@Plazmic Flame I think as time goes on this is less important. The UI is a presentation for apps, it's becoming less and less said that they have the best mobile browser anymore, I won't go as far as to say that games will run faster on the Galaxy S and EVO than the next gen of the iPhone until I see hardware; in any case, I think it goes without saying that the iPhone UI has less meaning than when they entered the field.
Now it's about Apps and mobile browsing, they need to innovate within their web experience or allow things like mobile firefox and the rest of the developers in there. While there at it, they need something to bump up their hardware so they can keep their lead in the way games function. Lastly, they need a better screen for their PMP function. This is what both hardcore and casual users see and experience, not just the UI. UI is the argument of yesteryear.
@Nilay Patel:
I'm fairly familiar with IP law as I work in marketing and advertising. I'm not one of those people who confuses patents, trademarks, copyright, etc. But I do get confused when you cite the Coke bottle, however. The distinctive Coke bottle is trademark, but apparently also a design patent. Are design patents based on the functionality of the design? If not, what then are the purpose of design patents? I've read through the Wikipedia entry and I still can't sort it out.