Microsoft gives us a look through Project Natal's eyes (video)
By Vlad Savov 
posted April 15th 2010 8:02AM
posted April 15th 2010 8:02AM
[Thanks, Roy]
posted April 15th 2010 8:02AM
Microsoft Xbox 360
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project fail haha
I see LED people..
violetta still enjoys here wooden wii fit
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Violetta.jpg
There is definitely still lag; just watch when the guy jumps towards the end. Most of the movements they made were slow, so it wasn't very noticeable until then. Of course we have no way of knowing if this was due to the display system or natal
This will be fun.
My next console based investment.
Do you think they could use this on Caster Semenya?
@Ipadkiller If this is bundled with a new Xbox with 120gb+ HDD for under $300, then I'll buy one. I still have a 20GB HDD, and I keep having to delete DLC, and really want to install some games but don't have the space. Hopefully it's a new slim Xbox too, like all the analysts are saying.
@engadgetcomexcludeengadget
Have you not used the USB flash drives to augment you 20GB HDD? A couple of 16GB drives would give you the option of keeping your DLC.
@SmokemeaKipper
This kind of controller technology would have so much impact in environments like SecondLife!
Well there you have it, the tech in this looks pretty impressive. I remember when it debuted at E3 and the Playstation fanboys tried to say it was the same tech as the old PS2 Eyetoy but didn't even know what was under the hood. Its pretty obvious that this is more advanced then the original Eyetoy and the current PS Eye. Not sure when they're releasing this but I'm more concerned about the price because of whats under the hood you might have to pay a bit more. I hope the game designers are able to incorporate this into modern games and we don't end up with a bunch of Wii shovelware, but I plan on getting one of these on launch day, i'll probably get a PS Move also.
@Ipadkiller
I was there yesterday, very nice stuff! They actually had a booth with Natal but they wouldn't let anyone get NEAR the thing (they set security around it).
The most important announcement yesterday was that the Natal doesn't only include all this fancy camera/mic stuff in it, it also contains its own a processor. So it means the 360 doesnt have to do all the calculations, it's done in the device. I think that's news. Impressive!
this is very cool. when i have a kid, playing video games will be good for him (because there will be no playgrounds in the post-apocalyptic dystopia outside)
well here's the thing...
how is natal going to be weaved into the more hardcore games the xbox has? all anyone can do at this point is speculate. Sony has demoed the technology in a hardcore-esque game with socom4 and it worked quite well, but still nothing except for shovelware type games and the potential for minority report type menus for the 360. Im not convinced till we see something tangible in action for the games that sell systems. Im not the biggest fan of motion controls, yes i own and use my Wii, but at least make a product that will focus on both the casual and hardcore style games.
of course, they could have already done this and i just totally missed it.
Well this looks like a weekend project ;)
as long as you don't mind the delay (1/2s) you will be fine ..
Anybody that has a problem undestanding the value of this technology needs to see a video of how many animated movies and CGI effects are made. To trace a person's movements for an animated movie or CGI, the most modern technology requires the person to wear a suit with either radio sensors or markers so the camera can track every articulation. Additionally the background must be clear of obstructions, usually a green screen, etc. Very dificult and complex. And tracking a second person would require separate color markers or frequence sensors, etc. To be able to track people as we see in this video is just amazing. The computer is guessing the angle, the location of our articulations, etc. Imagine making CGI movies now with this technology, you could have the actors play in any regular set, in regular clothes. Natal is really top notch technology, MS is using several companies together for this.
@ckeledjian
which is great for all those other applications. there's no denying the technology in this, but in its current application, gaming, the hardcore gaming segment has yet to be represented in any demo i have seen.
once again, correct me if i am wrong and missed a demo of halo or gears using natal.
@ckeledjian
This. Natal is basically a cheap motion capture studio for your home. Would be great for Machinima.
@305Cane - Unfortunately the hardcore market is as it's name suggest just for the hardcore. The non-hardcore market is a hell of a lot bigger and I wouldn't be surprised if this is used mainly for games for them, party games and brand new genres of game.
I still remember when games were all 2D, then this crazy 3D stuff started appearing and people thought it'd be crap as how can you play a decent performer in 3D when you can't judge pixel perfect jumps! Who would have thought back then that the 3D tech would have created a huge new genre (FPS) that is now played mainly by the hardcore. Natal could potential do the same thing. Just because we can't imagine all the possibilities doesn't mean they are not there.
@FMonkey I meant to say a decent platformer not a decent performer sorry. Been a very tiring day.
@FMonkey
Which is understandable, but the Wii owns the casual market. MS might want to break into that field, but their hardcore gamer install base is infinitely larger than its casual party game shovelware install base. By not catering to the more hardcore game players ( hardcore as game type not playtime) they miss out on a huge portion of their audience. The brilliance of the Wii is that it had the ability to be for anyone from the get go. The PS3 move has already shown it can play shooters very well.
Natal has shown us shovelware only. That doesnt mean something wont come, or that it may not be the future, but how are you going to play gears or FFXIII with no controller and no buttons?
@305Cane - Wii doesn't really own it. Yes it sold a hell of a lot of consoles, but Nintendo didn't release much games for it and pretty much all the rest of the games suck. Game sales on Wii are appalling. MS probably see it as having a lot of disillusioned gamers that are wanting something better.
@FMonkey - ...and I don't want to play Gears without buttons, in the same way as I don't want a controller to play a dance or singing game.
Not everything needs a controller, you just have to free your mind a little and not get tied up with how games we currently have will work, but think of what games that have not yet been possible because of the restrictions of a controller could work.
Wwow I was already going to buy it, but to see they improved so much is making me excited. This is going to change some things in gaming and computing. All we need now is the price, sure other compaines may have something similar, but how much does there tech cost? We are talking about something affordable that you can have in your home.
So it is still a WIP and in my humble opinion it looks pretty experimental.
@mrkeyboard
Wait, they said that? Last I had heard, they were talking like they removed the extra processor?
@beemop
Well, that's what the dude on the stage said. However a wiki source is saying:
"... processing that was originally intended to be done on this hardware will now be handled by the Xbox 360 console, resulting in an estimated usage of 10 to 15% of the Xbox 360's computing resources for Natal-related processing."
These MS guys are contradicting eachother.
What isn't still a WIP? MS wont really show it off as far as game content until a couple days before E3... keep your eyes peeled.
Ha, have fun wasting your money if you buy this garbage. Seriously people are creating totally false scenarios for the use of this system. I can see that the paid Microsoft blogging army is out in full force talking up this ridiculous system. Anyone that would say they are immediately buying Natal from watching that has to be loony.
Natal sees 16 points on a simple mocap skeleton to sense movement. There will be no tracking of fingers or tiny movements. The system is not programmed to use props. If you use a nerf sword to try an make the experience a little more realistic it will just throw off the mocap. The prop BS is still coming from the fantasy land demonstration movie Microsoft made up. I also haven't seen any demonstrations of Natal working with you sitting on the couch with objects between you and the camera. Occlusion is still an issue. Any time the girl on stage moved her hand in front of her body she did it very slowly. Microsoft already stated that the system will match your movements to prerecorded movements and decide which one to render on screen. There is no 1:1 movement making it into games.
If you are a poor handicapped kid in a wheelchair forget using the system. If you have one arm you can also forget using the system unless Microsoft programs the ability for the system to exclude mocap points.
The gender recognition system is complete bull. A facial recognition system will not work with children and will barely work with adults. What if you wear a baseball cap? What if you have glasses? What if you are a guy with long hair, or a girl with a ponytail? A baseball cap and sunglasses can render multimillion dollar facial recognition systems worthless.
The reason why there was no lag was because the system was just showing direct output from the camera system. There was no processing of movements and transferring it to in game actions.
Another thing is what will the infrared camera do if there are other heat sources in the room? How badly will a couple lights, a radiator, and a warm sunlit window screw up the system?
I am just asking real questions and stating obvious limitations of the system. Hate that all you want but I wont just take Microsoft's word that the system will work like a dream and dropping my hard earned money on an unproven technology.
@enbadesign
Where are you getting this from? It's completely contrary to whats been shown so far. It's 48 joints per person, and it can track fingers if you're close enough. And this isn't showing just camera output, the upper right quadrant is showing a 3D avatar tracking the person.
Also remember one of the lead Natal designers, that guy who demos it all the time, is always wearing sunglasses indoors so there you go.
@enbadesign
Agreed. Natal will not be able to capture wheelchair-bound handicapped children wearing baseball caps and glasses while hiding behind objects and other near potent heat sources. Natal = Fail.
@shishi
Yeah don't start a bonfire in your living room and play Natal at the same time. There are obviously limitations with any system, but thats why you have engineers, to solve that stuff. Unless you're a dev working on Natal or someone using the SDK, and probably breaking an NDA, you have no idea what they are. The rest of us are reserving judgement until something is shown beyond concept videos, early prototypes, and tech demos to technology shows.
@enbadesign - Um... Yeah that's complete bull isn't it.
"Microsoft already stated that the system will match your movements to prerecorded movements and decide which one to render on screen. There is no 1:1 movement making it into games." - Where did MS state this. As you can see from the demo they have an Avatar with 1:1 movement so why would this suddenly not be able to be in a game? Yes, there will need to be a library of poses to match the skeleton to so that it knows what you are doing, but that is exactly the same as your brain. If I stick my middle finger up at you, you recognise that pose as you would have seen it before and so you can then react in the expected manner.
"If you have one arm you can also forget using the system" - If you have one arm forget about using DualShock controllers too, if you are deaf then stereo sound is a pointless gimmick and if you are blind then there is no point in video games. Your point is what?
"A facial recognition system will not work with children...", "...What if you have glasses?" - Well Picasa 3 does it pretty damn well with my kids photos. Also, this has been taken out of context slightly. It has facial detection to match you to you're profile, so it has something to compare to.
"The reason why there was no lag was because the system was just showing direct output from the camera system. There was no processing of movements and transferring it to in game actions" - Did you not see the skeletons and the avatars? Once you have the skeleton detecting what pose motion it is making would be fairly trivial.
"Another thing is what will the infrared camera do if there are other heat sources in the room? How badly will a couple lights, a radiator, and a warm sunlit window screw up the system?" - It won't affect it at all. This uses near infrared to detect depth and not heat.
@mrkeyboard
sounds expensive.
Hmm...I still saw noticeable lag. Hopefully that's just because it's hooked up to the projector....
Other than that, it looks awesome!
@Ipadkiller The biggest question here is, with all the upgrade and features they infused with the natal, how much will gamers need to shell out? and also, will it be backward compatible with some of the games we had on the 360? Reactions. http://bit.ly/natal-project-original-view
This deserves a game where you can control a world with your hands as GOD. That would be badass!
Still wondering if you can play this with a coffee table in front of you... My living room's definitely not empty
The linked article about lag was claiming that Natal had about 100ms... Supposedly that's fixed, and yet in this article, it looks like there's up to half a second of delay between an action and it being represented on-screen!
Buh?
lol let me guess, MS won't include a wireless adapter with it or a free membership. So we'll have to pay extra $200 to actually use it.
Cool. I think I'll stick with my PS3. Has everything Xbox never will.
@John Lennon - Why do you need a wireless adapter or membership to use it exactly? Also it has been hinted at that it could be about the $50 mark.
@Ipadkiller
I can't wait to get it...hack it so it will work with the PC and then use it for my media center/home automation/EVERYTHING.
for some strange reason, every time i see project Natal in action, I instantly think of Rick Rape
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6PmrXydEww
lololol --- bwahahaahahah!
Happy the tech is working much better than was rumoured even if it is shown in one of it's simplest forms. Can't wait to see what they have lurking up their sleeves for E3.
Also a good name for Project Natal would be : Freedom
awesome cant wait
@Engadget - "gender recognition (done through Natal's facial recognition ... you filthy child)"
At what point in the video or the original source (don't go there guys there is a trojan on the site) does it say it uses a facial recognition system to detect gender? I agree it seems like the most obvious method, but I didn't see it mentioned anywhere. Did you just jump to that conclusion?
we are still having problems getting supercomputers to tell the difference between a cat and a dog... and they can recognise the difference between a male and female human being *thumbs up* have a bud lite on us Natal champs. You've done nigh on the impossible. Congrats!