@tenorwoody85 the fuss, HTC dont make android, but are being sued by 2 pretty large companies because of it (remember, apple are suing them too XD)
really, what jumped up shite is this? take the plunge, sue google, dont be a holes suing one of the best Phone manufacturers around, id hate for the iphone to be the best on the market because HTC stop making android phones for fear of being sued again!
@Camperton I think that this is in response to HTC being sued by Apple - If HTC tell the court they are licensing from Microsoft, suddenly Apple's lawyers are the small fish in the big ocean. Microsoft probably said to HTC 'We'll keep Apple out of your hair if you strengthen our claims of patent violation by licensing Android from us'. I'm curious as to which parts of the UI Microsoft are laying claim to.
This does not mean that HTC Android phones will be better, it means that HTC is paying to keep phones as they are and not have to remove features.
Its not good for HTC because they will have to pay for an OS that is free, its not good for the consumer because HTC will transfer this cost on the price of the phones, its not good for Google because they are doing all the work and Microsoft is getting payed. So basically is only good for Microsoft
@Camperton "ow an unfortunate fact that a major Android phone manufacturer is having to pay Microsoft royalties to use Google's operating system."
Did you ever stop and think, maybe google is infringing on Microsoft's rights, which is why a large multi-billion dollar corporation called HTC is paying licensing fees to microsoft?
You guys are all WRONG. Microsoft and HTC are pals. Microsoft just helped HTC big time here...
“Microsoft Corp. and HTC Corp. have signed a patent agreement that provides broad coverage under Microsoft’s patent portfolio for HTC’s mobile phones running the Android mobile platform” (Emphasis mine)
So yes, this seems to be Microsoft lending its (undoubtedly massive) arsenal of patents to help HTC and Google combat Apple (though, naturally, the rationale behind the deal — and Apple — are never named). It’s hard to imagine what else this could possibly be about [more below]. It’s also hard to figure out why Microsoft sent this release out at 11:30 at night.
@TC I'm wondering if MS and Apple have more in common against Google, than what you are suggesting. It has been brought up before when discussing the possible change in search engines.
The patents probably involve the linux technology that Microsoft invented. Stupid android fanboys who dont know anything can go whine about it somewhere else.
mrt88 brought up an interesting question. Could this actually be Microsoft's way of protecting HTC from their Apple suit? By licensing a number of undisclosed patents to HTC, Microsoft could effectively be giving HTC a claim to similar technological patents that Apple is claiming. What do you guys thing? Sounds pretty brilliant if true.
@Camperton Microsoft has over 10,000 patents, so it isnt too farfetched that a competing mobile operating system infringes on a patent from the world largest OS company.
Engadget should have a reading comprehension test before they allow people to sign up. Seems to me that a lot of people either do not know how to read or completely ignore the article and go straight to the comments.
It's bad for everyone but Microsoft because they are extorting money from HTC due to the fear of being sued and they must pay up for protection, sounds a lot like the mob to me.
Software patents should go away, they are bullshit no matter how you look at it and as a software developer I can tell you that no other developer that I have ever seen wants them. They are mostly supported by large corporations (who can afford a bunch of them) so they can have a government mandated monopoly on what is often common sense and threaten smaller competitors to pay up. This hurts both competition and customers by putting start-ups and smaller companies at a huge disadvantage. Apple/Microsoft go after the smaller HTC and not Google because they are more likely to pay up without a fight.
HTC is wasting R&D money on licenses that they don't need for an OS a 3rd party produced. Even going by the current bullshit IP law they should go after Google but sadly HTC is getting caught in the cross-fire.
In a statement to CNET, Microsoft deputy general counsel Horacio Gutierrez said that, although Microsoft prefers to resolve intellectual property licensing issues without resorting to lawsuits, it has a responsibility to make sure that “competitors do not free ride on our innovations.”
@HoldenMccrotch :: HTC is slowly growing in fame (not everybody reads engadget and pays attention to the brands), and the larger companies are now seeing them as a threat because . I hope HTC beats Microsoft and Apple... with a stick. As much as they are great in my mind, I still wonder if my 'low-range' Tattoo will ever get a rom update.
@Natal To completely invalidate his premise you'd need to prove:
you're a software developer, as you say you aren't a big corporation or a beneficiary of one you're competent and rational and to read his premise as "only" rather than "mostly" ...supported by large corporations; notice he said no developer he has ever seen.
Sure, this is anecdotal and we don't know the sample size or anything, but you so far haven't proven yourself to be #3 from above. I have my opinion on software patents, but I know it actually doesn't matter so I'll keep it to myself.
@HoldenMccrotch Android is open source, it's not owned by anyone. Google cannot be sued for it. HTC can be sued for using a OS that infringes on other companies patents.
@Natal You may have better luck illustrating your point without acting like somebody spit in your cheerios this morning.
That aside, I definitely think it's a possibility that Microsoft may be attempting to help HTC out with the Apple lawsuit while still increasing their flow of cash. HTC has really been about the only company that was making WinMo worth it and I'm sure they want to keep them around for WinPho as well.
Oh this is just freaking brilliant of Microsoft. Do you guys see whats going on here? Microsoft just saw and seized a great opportunity. Not only could Microsoft be protecting HTC from Apple with it's claim on similar patents but it is also screwing Google at the same time by making i5 making money off its OS and making it more difficult for it to spread.
@HoldenMccrotch You (and engadget) dont seem to understand the nature of android. The core of android is free. Anyone can use it. Theres no royalties paid to google. MS can only sue google for selling the nexus one... and I bet they will if google doesnt strike a deal with them. Likewise, MS has never sued anyone distributing linux freely. Only companies making money with it.
There are other parts of android OS that are most likely not free, like the market place, the maps app and stuff like that. But this dispute is certainly not over these parts of android.
@TheOne MS learned their lesson well. Apple will learn it the hard way as well. I just hope Jobs will live to see it - dammit, I'd pay to see his face when the anti-trust hammer of justice strikes his little fruit company some day...
@Beatnik If Google buys Palm, then it can protect all the Android phones, having all those patents portfolio. This is the only way to save Android of all the stupid lawsuits. I think HTC made the largest than life MISTAKE OF NOT BUYING PALM
What an insult. To Microsoft, that is. HTC is saying, "your mobile OS sucks so much that we'll pay you just to use someone else's". Nice work. MS and Apple should shutdown the small portion of their companies that do tech and become Law firms.
@HoldenMccrotch Technically, Android is open source. So Microsoft legally can't make any money suing Google. Same reason why Apple is suing HTC. Go where there is money to be made.
@tenorwoody85 HTC agreed to pay Microsoft, no doubt in a back room deal. HTC gets a lower price, Microsoft gets their patents validated by a major company for further lawsuits. What's not good for the consumer (which this supposed to be about, no matter what anyone says) is the price of devices going up due to royalty overhead.
@HoldenMccrotch Hey US government, how about you reform patent laws already? So that this sort of bickering over replicated functionality will cease to exist.
Patents are and aren't bullshit. They used to protect innovation and now they often times stifle it, because like any other business, large accounts get large benefits. The ability to patent life for example, was spearheaded by many closed door affiliates with the aide of politicians and it has created a monopoly in the agriculture industry in which conglomerates will take small business to court knowing they'll lose (the big company will lose) but keeping the small business owner there long enough to escalate court costs to the point where the business goes under. The handshakes bring high stakes, journalism has died and everything is consumer driven media made to protect people from realizing a true sense of identity. Look it up, it all checks out.
Microsoft did not create Linux, heh Linus Torvalds created the first kernels himself (although the wider linux community is involved now of course) and most of the core apps are part of the GNU tools, gcc etc. which Microsoft likewise contributed not one line of code to..
@TC and everyone else proposing the MS-protecting-HTC theory:
What if, instead, Microsoft is trying to tell HTC, "Hey, Apple's bugging you with patent infringement, and now you have to pay US. Well, instead of paying us to use Android, why don't you move away from Android, and license some Windows Phone 7 instead?"
@TC Except for the fact that some of the UI elements in HTC's phones are clearly directly taken from Apple such as their new copy and paste UI... This is a directly taken from the iPhone and they didn't even bother to change it up any so that it would at least look like they did something other than directly port it. I'm not a supporter of patent or IP law and I'm no Apple fanboy but law is law... Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you don't follow them. Fight to have them changed yes, but blatantly disregard them? No. I think there does need to be a major overhaul of the law in this area, MAJOR but that doesn't mean large companies have the right to not abide by them while the laws are in place. Just saying...
Your comments are wrong on so many levels it's not even funny. Google isn't losing money at all, have you ever heard how google makes it's money? advertising, and mobile advertising is still a huge area. This is not going to be bad for the consumer, nor Android.
The FUD being spread on these fanboy trio of sites (here, giz, wired) is just insane. Android will inevitabely move forward and continue to innovate and prosper.
@ChrisSsk not sure what you mean - I don't think the benefits of a free Android OS is necesarily at risk here - so a licensing fee is paid, big deal. That still means that the OS is largely free. And HTC is hands-down the best implementation of Android. A fee that probably costs much, much less then licensing a full OS from MS is not going to affect the quality or pricing of HTC phones. MS is just shooting themselves in the foot, by going after HTC - now they are likely to have lost a high-quality hardware partner with the strong-arming that should have been directed at Google, if at all.
HP's Jon Rubenstein told us that his company wanted to veer in a new direction, and veer it surely did -- the HP Veer 4G will arguably be the smallest fully-functional smartphone on the market when it goes on sale May 15th.
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Sweet jumping jellybeans, we live in a mixed up world.
@Camperton
This is the most ironic thing I've heard this whole year so far.
I read the last sentence and was all "WAT"
@Camperton Anyone spots the PS? LOL
@r34p3r Not ironic at all....
@Camperton well that seems like enough incentive for HTC to take another look at palm.
@Camperton I don't see what the fuss is about. If HTC agreed the pay the license fee without going to court then there's no argument.
If this means that HTC Android phones can be better than they would be otherwise then that's great.
That's good for the consumer, HTC, Google and Microsoft.
There's nothing to stop Samsung / Sony / Dell / [insert Android manufacturer here] signing up to a similar deal ....
@tenorwoody85
the fuss, HTC dont make android, but are being sued by 2 pretty large companies because of it (remember, apple are suing them too XD)
really, what jumped up shite is this?
take the plunge, sue google, dont be a holes suing one of the best Phone manufacturers around, id hate for the iphone to be the best on the market because HTC stop making android phones for fear of being sued again!
@Camperton
At least Microsoft negotiates before throwing the lawsuits down. Ah-hem.
@marsmissions
How so?
Seems quite to me...
@Camperton
No one can bid the lawyers in this country when comes to selling HOPE!
@HoldenMccrotch
If HTC have already licensed the tech from microsoft how can they be sued. This is only relevant for google and other android phone manufacturers
Think before you post
@weeandystheman
They pay a fee for every handset that they ship with an operating system not an over all fee
@Camperton
I think that this is in response to HTC being sued by Apple - If HTC tell the court they are licensing from Microsoft, suddenly Apple's lawyers are the small fish in the big ocean. Microsoft probably said to HTC 'We'll keep Apple out of your hair if you strengthen our claims of patent violation by licensing Android from us'. I'm curious as to which parts of the UI Microsoft are laying claim to.
@tenorwoody85
This does not mean that HTC Android phones will be better, it means that HTC is paying to keep phones as they are and not have to remove features.
Its not good for HTC because they will have to pay for an OS that is free, its not good for the consumer because HTC will transfer this cost on the price of the phones, its not good for Google because they are doing all the work and Microsoft is getting payed. So basically is only good for Microsoft
@Camperton
This is where a bunch of google/android fanboys, who DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT LAW, think they are entitled to voice their uneducated opinion.
@Camperton
"ow an unfortunate fact that a major Android phone manufacturer is having to pay Microsoft royalties to use Google's operating system."
Did you ever stop and think, maybe google is infringing on Microsoft's rights, which is why a large multi-billion dollar corporation called HTC is paying licensing fees to microsoft?
@Camperton
You guys are all WRONG. Microsoft and HTC are pals. Microsoft just helped HTC big time here...
“Microsoft Corp. and HTC Corp. have signed a patent agreement that provides broad coverage under Microsoft’s patent portfolio for HTC’s mobile phones running the Android mobile platform” (Emphasis mine)
So yes, this seems to be Microsoft lending its (undoubtedly massive) arsenal of patents to help HTC and Google combat Apple (though, naturally, the rationale behind the deal — and Apple — are never named). It’s hard to imagine what else this could possibly be about [more below]. It’s also hard to figure out why Microsoft sent this release out at 11:30 at night.
@TC
I'm wondering if MS and Apple have more in common against Google, than what you are suggesting. It has been brought up before when discussing the possible change in search engines.
@Camperton
The patents probably involve the linux technology that Microsoft invented. Stupid android fanboys who dont know anything can go whine about it somewhere else.
@Camperton
mrt88 brought up an interesting question.
Could this actually be Microsoft's way of protecting HTC from their Apple suit? By licensing a number of undisclosed patents to HTC, Microsoft could effectively be giving HTC a claim to similar technological patents that Apple is claiming.
What do you guys thing? Sounds pretty brilliant if true.
@Camperton
Microsoft has over 10,000 patents, so it isnt too farfetched that a competing mobile operating system infringes on a patent from the world largest OS company.
@Camperton
Engadget should have a reading comprehension test before they allow people to sign up. Seems to me that a lot of people either do not know how to read or completely ignore the article and go straight to the comments.
@jstevens
I think MS is helping HTC against Apple so that the Apple patents get invalidated. 2 vs 1 is easier.
@tenorwoody85
It's bad for everyone but Microsoft because they are extorting money from HTC due to the fear of being sued and they must pay up for protection, sounds a lot like the mob to me.
Software patents should go away, they are bullshit no matter how you look at it and as a software developer I can tell you that no other developer that I have ever seen wants them. They are mostly supported by large corporations (who can afford a bunch of them) so they can have a government mandated monopoly on what is often common sense and threaten smaller competitors to pay up. This hurts both competition and customers by putting start-ups and smaller companies at a huge disadvantage. Apple/Microsoft go after the smaller HTC and not Google because they are more likely to pay up without a fight.
HTC is wasting R&D money on licenses that they don't need for an OS a 3rd party produced. Even going by the current bullshit IP law they should go after Google but sadly HTC is getting caught in the cross-fire.
@blakeem
as a software developer, I love software patents.
so that completely negates your entire premise
@Camperton
In a statement to CNET, Microsoft deputy general counsel Horacio Gutierrez said that, although Microsoft prefers to resolve intellectual property licensing issues without resorting to lawsuits, it has a responsibility to make sure that “competitors do not free ride on our innovations.”
Cant wait to see Motorola get sued next. lmao
@HoldenMccrotch :: HTC is slowly growing in fame (not everybody reads engadget and pays attention to the brands), and the larger companies are now seeing them as a threat because . I hope HTC beats Microsoft and Apple... with a stick. As much as they are great in my mind, I still wonder if my 'low-range' Tattoo will ever get a rom update.
@Natal To completely invalidate his premise you'd need to prove:
you're a software developer, as you say
you aren't a big corporation or a beneficiary of one
you're competent and rational
and to read his premise as "only" rather than "mostly" ...supported by large corporations; notice he said no developer he has ever seen.
Sure, this is anecdotal and we don't know the sample size or anything, but you so far haven't proven yourself to be #3 from above. I have my opinion on software patents, but I know it actually doesn't matter so I'll keep it to myself.
@HoldenMccrotch Android is open source, it's not owned by anyone. Google cannot be sued for it. HTC can be sued for using a OS that infringes on other companies patents.
@Natal
You may have better luck illustrating your point without acting like somebody spit in your cheerios this morning.
That aside, I definitely think it's a possibility that Microsoft may be attempting to help HTC out with the Apple lawsuit while still increasing their flow of cash. HTC has really been about the only company that was making WinMo worth it and I'm sure they want to keep them around for WinPho as well.
@Camperton Well at Least MS will license to you Apple will rather wipe out the competition then work with others
@Camperton
Oh this is just freaking brilliant of Microsoft.
Do you guys see whats going on here? Microsoft just saw and seized a great opportunity.
Not only could Microsoft be protecting HTC from Apple with it's claim on similar patents but it is also screwing Google at the same time by making i5 making money off its OS and making it more difficult for it to spread.
@HoldenMccrotch You (and engadget) dont seem to understand the nature of android. The core of android is free. Anyone can use it. Theres no royalties paid to google. MS can only sue google for selling the nexus one... and I bet they will if google doesnt strike a deal with them. Likewise, MS has never sued anyone distributing linux freely. Only companies making money with it.
There are other parts of android OS that are most likely not free, like the market place, the maps app and stuff like that. But this dispute is certainly not over these parts of android.
@TheOne MS learned their lesson well. Apple will learn it the hard way as well. I just hope Jobs will live to see it - dammit, I'd pay to see his face when the anti-trust hammer of justice strikes his little fruit company some day...
@r34p3r Microsoft makes more money from Android than Google... Nuts.
@UnsilentMajority
Exactly what I was thinking.
@Camperton
GOOGLE PLEASE BUY PALM NOW
@Beatnik
If Google buys Palm, then it can protect all the Android phones, having all those patents portfolio.
This is the only way to save Android of all the stupid lawsuits. I think HTC made the largest than life MISTAKE OF NOT BUYING PALM
@ummmwhat
What an insult. To Microsoft, that is. HTC is saying, "your mobile OS sucks so much that we'll pay you just to use someone else's". Nice work. MS and Apple should shutdown the small portion of their companies that do tech and become Law firms.
@TC
If you believe that you are a moron.
@HoldenMccrotch Technically, Android is open source. So Microsoft legally can't make any money suing Google. Same reason why Apple is suing HTC. Go where there is money to be made.
@Natal
Damn you dumb, they are not lending sh!t. They are licensing. HTC does not own these patents so how will they use them against Apple.
@tenorwoody85 HTC agreed to pay Microsoft, no doubt in a back room deal. HTC gets a lower price, Microsoft gets their patents validated by a major company for further lawsuits. What's not good for the consumer (which this supposed to be about, no matter what anyone says) is the price of devices going up due to royalty overhead.
@HoldenMccrotch Hey US government, how about you reform patent laws already? So that this sort of bickering over replicated functionality will cease to exist.
@blakeem
Patents are and aren't bullshit. They used to protect innovation and now they often times stifle it, because like any other business, large accounts get large benefits. The ability to patent life for example, was spearheaded by many closed door affiliates with the aide of politicians and it has created a monopoly in the agriculture industry in which conglomerates will take small business to court knowing they'll lose (the big company will lose) but keeping the small business owner there long enough to escalate court costs to the point where the business goes under. The handshakes bring high stakes, journalism has died and everything is consumer driven media made to protect people from realizing a true sense of identity. Look it up, it all checks out.
@Natal
Excuse me, are you a complete raving loon?
Microsoft did not create Linux, heh Linus Torvalds created the first kernels himself (although the wider linux community is involved now of course) and most of the core apps are part of the GNU tools, gcc etc. which Microsoft likewise contributed not one line of code to..
Engage brain before keyboard.
@TC and everyone else proposing the MS-protecting-HTC theory:
What if, instead, Microsoft is trying to tell HTC, "Hey, Apple's bugging you with patent infringement, and now you have to pay US. Well, instead of paying us to use Android, why don't you move away from Android, and license some Windows Phone 7 instead?"
@TC Except for the fact that some of the UI elements in HTC's phones are clearly directly taken from Apple such as their new copy and paste UI... This is a directly taken from the iPhone and they didn't even bother to change it up any so that it would at least look like they did something other than directly port it. I'm not a supporter of patent or IP law and I'm no Apple fanboy but law is law... Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you don't follow them. Fight to have them changed yes, but blatantly disregard them? No. I think there does need to be a major overhaul of the law in this area, MAJOR but that doesn't mean large companies have the right to not abide by them while the laws are in place. Just saying...
@ChrisSsk
Your comments are wrong on so many levels it's not even funny. Google isn't losing money at all, have you ever heard how google makes it's money? advertising, and mobile advertising is still a huge area. This is not going to be bad for the consumer, nor Android.
The FUD being spread on these fanboy trio of sites (here, giz, wired) is just insane. Android will inevitabely move forward and continue to innovate and prosper.
Quit it.
@ChrisSsk not sure what you mean - I don't think the benefits of a free Android OS is necesarily at risk here - so a licensing fee is paid, big deal. That still means that the OS is largely free. And HTC is hands-down the best implementation of Android. A fee that probably costs much, much less then licensing a full OS from MS is not going to affect the quality or pricing of HTC phones. MS is just shooting themselves in the foot, by going after HTC - now they are likely to have lost a high-quality hardware partner with the strong-arming that should have been directed at Google, if at all.