Foxconn CEO: 'We are definitely not a sweatshop'
By Laura June 
posted May 25th 2010 10:53AM
posted May 25th 2010 10:53AM
The video also, however, details a new undercover report -- this time eight men who met online -- three of whom ended up being recruited by Foxconn. Their claims? New employees must sign a voluntary affidavit committing to between 60 and 100 hours of overtime each month -- far more than the legal limit of 36 hours. Managers often verbally abuse workers, and randomly deduct pay from their performance bonuses. The 900 yuan minimum wage per month (around $132) is very low in comparison to the company's profits and standing in the country. Possibly the most interesting tidbit unearthed here is the claim that over the past three months, Foxconn has lost about 50,000 workers each month, and as such, has become desperate to make up for the lost manpower. Recruitment standards -- which used to include proof of secondary education -- have been all but dropped, and new recruits need only show identification to obtain a position. Finally, Foxconn has apparently hired about 50 new counselors over the past two days, and the front-line managers are also now trying to communicate with the workers to get a feel for the situation. We'll keep our eyes peeled for further developments, but in the meantime, hit up the source link to view the full news report in Chinese.
... During the winter.
Is not it strange that while Foxconn has many factories, the employees commit suicide only on one of them - the one that assembles iPhones? I wonder if there is something special about this particular factory.
@lilo
Jobs is in there cracking a whip?
@lilo some claim the security guards torture people, kill them and throw them off the building, not sure how credible that would be. consider there are 11 people jumped off building now. I would blame it on jobs.
@lilo
The one where Apple products are made has a higher security risk potential, therefore there is more implied anxiety if you make a mistake resulting in a leak or cost FOXCONN money for a botched production run.
Therefore these employees feel a greater sense of stress.
I would agree however that FOXCONN is not a sweatshop. The Clothing and Hardware industry factories in China win the Sweatshop title for their work conditions.
The electronics industry is a clean, precision process, so security and information leaks are the culprit of the Suicides, rather than any chemical inhalation or safety related deaths, or young workers as it relates to being labeled a "Sweatshop"
@tklr08
Probably not but it's possible that Apple demands stricter security measures than other Foxconn customers.
@lilo
Don't know where Apple got into this equation. No one said this has anything to do with them and no investigation revealed that the suicide victims worked on Apple products.
The suicides happened in the biggest of Foxconn's plants, where probably almost all of their big customer's products are assembled. That's Intel, Dell, Sony, HP, Nintendo, Microsoft and of course Apple. They should all line up together and demand some better working conditions.
@SeeKo
You should realize that you are reading web site sponsored by Apple. This particular plant manufacturers iPads and other stuff (and not only for Apple) as reported by many news outlets (for example: "Why have suicides spiked at Apple iPad supplier Foxconn in China?" - http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2010/0525/Why-have-suicides-spiked-at-Apple-iPad-supplier-Foxconn-in-China)
@DC MIKE
so is this page censored in china or what?
@speaktruth
I think some of the magic leaked from the ipads and got onto a couple of the employees. They became so magical they couldn't take it anymore and needed to off themselves.
@SeeKo
but heres the thing:
theres thousands of other workers willing to do their job
though the companies measures are horrific (in particular the pure awfulness related to apple products and the MUCH stricter security) its better money/conditions than a lot of other places these people could work
it is a sad state that, while companies like Apple, HP, Dell and all the rest are making BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of pure profit, as are foxconn, their employees are still treated as third class citizens, with bad living condiitions, bad wages and bad treatment
cant these companies take a small hit to their gigantic profits to keep the people making their products, if i say so making them very well, well... keep them alive?
@lilo
The Engadget editors don't WORK for Apple.
They don't purposely skew stories to protect Apple.
Plus the article you linked, done by Christian Science Monitor of all places, just makes a generalized statement that the company who owns factories also happens to manufacture the Apple Ipad.
I doubt they even know if the suicides are coming from Apple product lines... Quit spreading false information.
@HoldenMccrotch
I don't know about Dell and HP...
But I do know that Apple retail stores have often come out as one of Fortune Magazines top 100 places to work.
I have also have had other acquaintances that have been very happy doing their work for Apple. I'm sure it's very similar for HP, Dell...
Now... whether or not the companies are obligated or should come directly involved in compensating workers in China is another story.
I do agree that Foxconn needs to lay off hoarding profits for the big executives and CEOs....
But I can't bring myself to blame HP, Dell, or Apple... If I did that... I would have to also blame myself for continuing to purchase products with this origin. I think we are all just as equally guilty as any of these other companies.
Foxconn is only one directly responsible though...
@lilo
I wasn't commenting on Engadget. YOU brought up Apple even though they have no direct relation to the suicides. It's Foxconn you should be worried about, not Apple.
@lilo EMF??
@SeeKo
How do you know that Apple has nothing to do with that? Remember last year they had one suicide where the guy who committed suicide lost iPhone prototype? Not everybody believed that it was a suicide. Besides, it's possible that Apple contributes to the problems by demanding draconian security measures (don't we know this?)
@asgiov
Sure Engadget editors do not work for Apple (I am not sure they would be able to stay there for long) but they do depend on Appe for getting access to those great Apple PR events from where Engadget loves to report LIVE.
@lilo
I don't know if Apple had anything to do with it because no one clearly said so. That's my point. So I'm actually wondering why you try to pinpoint it all on them. Foxconn on the the other hand doesn't seem to interest you at all.
Btw, I hoped you had realized by now that your Apple/Engadget relationship makes no sense. Guess you didn't. If they were so dependent on Apple, why would they post all these Foxconn articles that makes their major business partner appear in such a bad light?
@DC MIKE If I made $132 a month with 36 hours of overtime I would also jump out of a building.
@asgiov
i would guess that apple store workers would be ok, afterall, they dont really have to work in squalor, but get put in big glass rooms full of light with nice wages
but what i mean is that apple and HP and Dell all are making gigantic profits, so its not as if they cant afford to help pay for improvements of facilities in their production facilities
in all, i feel that we the consumers can do nothing about this problem, were allready overcharged for most of our products, so its not like paying an extra £10 is going to improve the conditions, its not until companies such as Apple HP and Dell start demanding better conditions that conditions will improve
but then, they will never do that from their own pocket, so it probably would lead to price hikes in products, whilst the fat cat companies keep there huge profits
*sigh* its a sad thought that me buying a HP/Dell/Apple product is causing someone suicidal thoughts, and yet, the people who CAN do something arent doing anything :(
@DC MIKE of course its not... its a slaughterhouse for the employees and reporters who take pictures of the factory...
@BMills
would you agree that your comparison of one severe case with one that is less of is somewhat a relative one... the fact is, there are regulations which states the line between healthy and normal work hours ya?
@SeeKo seriously? when i think Foxconn i think apple. what do you think? ponies? get real man.
"We believe that we are definitely not a sweatshop."
When you have to declare this subjectively and not objectively, there's a problem.
@Uncontrol And you know when you are trying to distinguish yourself from sweatshops there is a serious problem.
@Uncontrol
If they have to declare this subjectively and not objectively....
They blew it!
@Uncontrol
The fact that you work with high tech machinery and wear a white coat does not mean that it's a physically and mentally healthy environment.
300,000 employees in one single factory, big as a city but with almost no places to relax and recreate after a 18 hour work day cannot be good for the employee's state of mind.
Hiring counselors, even if they were more than the ridiculous 50 is not the solution. When you need counseling it means your mental state is already out of balance. So the solution must be looked for way before that.
Btw, I read somewhere that the minimum wage of an average worker is way lower now than it was 20 years ago.
@Uncontrol Did anyone expect him to say, "Why of course we are a sweatshop. And we don't give a shit what you think either, because we know you want bargain prices on your electronic toys. Now go and wait in line for your iPad."
In the end, largely it is our fault. We, as consumers, demand great pricing (or let companies like Apple make great profit margins) but we don't demand ethically made products.
Just like the average person is doing nothing to reduce oil consumption while watching BP destroy the gulf, I doubt few will resist purchasing some new gadget because it was made in conditions that the consumer would never think about working in.
Send a message to Foxconn. Boycott the new iPhone this year. I guarantee that if you do, Apple will make a big enough fuss to shake things up in China. If you really have balls, boycott everything from Foxconn until things change.
Every dollar you spend is your vote. If you own a product made by Foxconn - you are already a supporter of their policies. Hell, I know I am and it is making me remember to be a more conscious consumer.
@Uncontrol it's just poor translation/quoting on @engadget's part - like the title said, Guo said "we are definitely not a sweatshop", he didn't say "we believe we are not a sweatshop".
*Breaking News!* Foxconn CEO commits suicide.
@Uncontrol
in chinese slang "factory by day.... sweatshop by night!!"
You are a sweatshop when you work loooong hours for shitty pay while the product you assemble makes $$Billions$$ for someone else. This rising tide is not raising all the ships.
@NiKoLaSm
Amen to that...and it hasnt been for a while now
@Anatidae
I do boycott Foxconn already. I don't own any Foxconn assembled products. It's easy! Go for the small, non American computer manufacturers, and for phones, go for the companies that produce their own hardware before they design (e.g. HTC).
CE-Oh No he didn't *fingersnap*
IT'S A BLOODSHOP
When nine people kill themselves, you blew it.
@JXCGunrunna
the number has increased to11by yesterday, and he was a 19yr old.
@JXCGunrunna Really? Even when you have a staff of 800 thousand?!
This death puts their suicide rate for this year at 3-4 per 100k per year. The UK is at 6.8 and the US at 11.1!
I'm not saying working there is at all pleasant, but you certainly can't conclude anything about the working conditions from these suicides.
@Timmmmmm
These are deaths AT WORK "falling" from the building...
No possible way to count how many have taken their lives at home or in some other manner or place.
Also couldn't help but wonder about the quickly hired 50 new "counselors". Trained health professionals, or did they also just have to show ID to get hired? Sad.
@JXCGunrunna
9/900,000 isn't that bad.. Less than 1% of the staff has went an hero
@choupique
These people killed themselves. Not deaths at work by accident. Plus it wasnt with in the past year, it was the past few months.
@JXCGunrunna
1 person dies, shame on them...
2 people die, shame on them...
3 people die, shame on you...
9 people die.... why hasn't an inquiry been launched?
@Timmmmmm Hello?! those stats you listed are for a year. If all 9 of them killed themselves within a fucking month or two you bet your 'sweat' ass there's a problem.
@Timmmmmm
First of all, I find it a bit sad that you respond to this tragedy with statistics, saying it's not that bad.
Second, you simply cannot pull some demographic numbers here. There are too many variables when you look at a companies history. You cannot compare them with national statistics. The article states Foxconn has an employee fluctuation of 50,000 people per month. Probably many of these people left because they couldn't take it anymore to work there. If they did, the suicide rate might be much higher.
@Timmmmmm
I wouldn't be so sure about how well the WHO numbers apply to workplace suicides.
I looked up workplace suicides in the US and here's what I found.
251 workplace suicides in 2008 (a peak year, just look at the chart)
http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/osar0010.pdf
137 million, nonfarm payroll employment 2008
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/archives/empsit_01092009.pdf
Works out to
0.000183% rate
or 0.0183 out of 100k people
For Foxconn
0.001375% rate assuming 11/800k (which is the workforce of their entire company in China, rather than the specific factory where these suicides occurred).
or 1.375 per 100k
Much higher obviously for Foxconn. However, I will say, since the workers in those factories do work and live there, it will skew things a bit. The data I have does try to factor in all work-related suicides (even those that do not occur at work), but it is generally workplace suicides. However, it does show the problem may be bigger than you suggest.
Foxconn is not a sweatshop and in fact is probably one of the better mfg's in China. The solution is perfectly simple: make it illegal for employees to waive the legal limit of OT worked in a week. Obviously the employees are just working themselves to death (literally) so they can afford to live comfortably. It's not the working conditions of the factory that are the problems, it's the pathetically low minimum wage combined with excessive hours.
@Bandigolo
In which case manufacturers would keep paying their employees the same thing. What would need to happen is the minimum wage go up as well.
But tragic though it may be, 11 people out of eight hundred THOUSAND isn't that bad of a figure.
@BigJayDogg3
Well, yeah... that's kind of the natural progression. If people can't live up to minimum standards based on their legally allowed wage+OT, then minimum wage must go up.
@BigJayDogg3
But point being, simply increasing minimum wage is a knee jerk reaction that is a bit premature. Doing that can have an enormous trickle-down effect that could really mess up a local economy. And I'm not entirely convinced that these OT hours are "necessary" to live comfortably, or whether it's just necessary to buy an iPhone.