Apple, Dell, and HP comment on suicides as Foxconn CEO shows off the pool
By Thomas Ricker 
posted May 26th 2010 6:43AM
posted May 26th 2010 6:43AM
As you probably know, Foxconn is behind the assembly of many major consumer electronics brands including HP, Nokia, Dell, and Apple -- the latter two have come out with statements expressing their respective concern. Apple had this to say:
And Dell this:"We are saddened and upset by the recent suicides at Foxconn. We're in direct contact with Foxconn senior management and we believe they are taking this matter very seriously. A team from Apple is independently evaluating the steps they are taking to address these tragic events and we will continue our ongoing inspections of the facilities where our products are made."
During today's press event, Tang Wenying, a young Foxconn line supervisor said, "This is a good place to work because they treat us better than many (other) Chinese factories." And that may be the most worrisome aspect of this: Foxconn, by all accounts, provides some of the best conditions for the Chinese workers it employs. What does that say about the anonymous (and thus, invisible) chain of small suppliers and secondary assembly facilities nobody reads about?"We expect our suppliers to employ the same high standards we do in our own facilities. We enforce these standards through a variety of tools, including the Electronics Industry code of conduct, business reviews with suppliers, self-assessments and audits."
Update: HP says that it is also investigating "the Foxconn practices that may be associated with these tragic events."
@Duke http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_rates
(Numbers per 100 thousand people)
China: 13.9
US: 11.1
Foxconn factory workers: 2.3 (= 9 suicides per 400 thousand people)
@Pies
OK, I see where you are getting that. I don't know that it transfers over correctly though. If our suicide rate is lower than china's as a whole, then if the factory was here wouldn't that "low" foxconn rate be even lower? I guess we can't say.
@Duke My point is that an average US citizen is five times more likely to commit suicide than a Chinese Foxconn worker, and the story seems to suggest that it's the opposite.
maybe the companies that outsource should take a little bit of time to actually visit the factories themselves.
it's really sad to hear action only being taken after incidents like this happen. surely the best way to deal with it is to closely monitor the factories first hand, so stuff like this doesn't happen.
i told you apple would take there revenge
It's good to see these articles are causing the companies to act, none of them actually care about the workers, but the darned bad press is a b!tch. All in all we as consumers & news reading people have an obligation to comment, pass on the news to others & hold the makers of our goods to responsible. This is an example of the free press system working globally & it's quite refreshing. Don't be a schill always think for yourself!
welcome to the rest of the world.
I hate to sound cold, but honestly, this is the evolution of an economy and a country. The US was no different going back to the early 19th century. Children worked in factories and death in those factories, young, old, men and women was a common occurance. The companies that are doing business here don't care about these people. It's all PR. The only way things will get better is through unions. But this is China, so good luck with that.
@jakeZ US has unions and just look at it's booming manufacturing sector.
@Pies hmmm....The first suicide was over a missing prototype Iphone.. So lets see.. Cops busting down people's door for a "STOLEN" Iphone....New, NON-RELEASED Itouch for sale on EBAY then Gone 15 min later. APPLE IS EVIL. I PAD SUCKS!
Suicides in China? How about knife attacks on kindergartners? Suicides look normal at this point.
Dell's reply would make anyone jump.
The suicide rate for this massive company (500k+ employees) is much lower than the overall rate for China. There is no story here.
What's sad is that people still can't understand that these workers also LIVE at the factory, so it's not a day job, it's a city. Therefore the suicide rate there is unusually LOW. People on these forums keep bitching about big corporations and market forces, but I don't see them whining about the regular suicide rate in the US, which is actually higher. Why not write articles and complain about that? Ah, because then we'd have to accept that people die and corporations aren't to blame for everyone's problems. Much easier to scapegoat Foxconn and throw sense out the window.
@Kaibelf
So true, the numbers show that Foxcon don't deserve the negative publicity they are getting. But, you know, the media needs a big corporation to blame.
So that's a pool full of sweat?
Everyone here is missing the point: now things will, at least, get a little better now that this issue has been brought up by the media. Good for them! Maybe they'll get an extra $5 dollars a month
I was gonna comment....but then Erin Burnett came on the TV. *purrs*
So, if Foxcon's 9 suicides of 400,000 people is actually FAR BELOW the Chinese national suicide rate of 14 per 100,000 people, shouldn't these news articles be the other way around?
Yes, chinese labour conditions and our consumer habits that cause them have a lot to be desired, but according to these numbers, Foxcon have less suicides than the norm. We should be focusing on the industry habits, and not throwing the blame on any corporation, especially one that has a lower suicide rate than the national average.
I don't really understand how they have come under so much scrutiny.
This story fucking makes me sick :/
And, when this situation fades, the companies will probably not do anything different in verifying that the employees aren't indeed paying sweatshop-like wages. It's all just pr.
@adamson Would you prefer the suicide rate went up to national averages? I'm not sure what you're complaining about.
Seeing that pool with 2 people in it reminds me of Stalag 17, or was it Hogan's Heroes, when the Red Cross inspectors were about to show up and they issued blankets only to take them away when the inspectors left. "the cameras are off - get out of the pool and get back to work!"
Actually, the pool is a good idea, make your employees swim there way out the gate so they don't steal any technology - Apple wouldn't lose any more iphone prototypes!
Not a sweatshop? Of course, who sweats in an air-conditioned room. On the other hand, if not for the cheap labor, why would FxxxxxN open it's factory there?
Why do you think Dell and Apple outsource to China? Well, lower costs of course. If it were cheap enough, they would have their products manufactured in the US.
Of course, reduced cost inherently implies reduced wages and reduced employee services....basically general reduction of employee benefits. They can do it cheaper because they aren't burdened by the labor issues that we have here in America. In short - this isn't a new problem to Apple and the like. They know exactly what's going on over there and by doing business in China, they are perpetuating the problem. Is FoxConn a sweatshop? No, CHINA is the sweatshop.
@zealot
Don't blame the companies, blame the consumers. How many times have you seen people here on engadget bitching about the price of things? How many people do you know that shop at Wal Mart because socks or whatever cost 20¢ less than all the other places? Even when they are well aware that Wal Mart drives / has driven jobs out of the U.S.? Until it is their own job, the average consumer does not care about anything but saving a buck, regardless of the ultimate price of it. We have no one to blame but ourselves.
Courier news hit some harder than others.
I think people really need to put things into perspective here. Firstly the suicide rate for Foxconn employees is petty much on par with national statistics in China. Therefore merely by being a gigantic company that employs hundreds of thousands of people, they're guaranteed to have this many suicides in general. Also it's been documented that most people had other issues going on in their lives. Relationship, money, family issues. It's not like Foxconn was throwing people off the roof because they weren't performing well.
There's a few factors here that are making things appear a lot worse than they actually are. Firstly there's a huge copycat syndrome going on with the suicides. Secondly, because Foxconn provides housing, transportation and employment for their employees. So even if you commit suicide 'at home' its pretty much 'at Foxconn' anyways.
The suicide rate in the US as a whole is 11.2 per 100,000. Yep, higher then the suicide rate at Foxconn which is "only" 9 per 100,000, and this is an aberrant year for them. We should boycott products made in the US and only purchase products made at Foxconn!
@crunc errr, actually Foxconn's is much less then that. 9 per 400,000, so 2.25 per 100,000.
Here's more info. This site (National Institute of Mental Health) says that the US suicide rate was 10.9 per 100,000 people in 2006 (seems to be the most recent data). Foxconn's suicide rate is way lower then the suicide rate in the US. In order to save lives, we should only buy products made at Foxconn in China!
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-us-statistics-and-prevention/index.shtml
Also, readers of Engadget need to go back to school and learn about statistics all over again it would seem. Or at least stop ignoring numbers like the number of people employed at Foxconn.
@crunc, that would require these dipshits to stop and think, which is beyond them. Most of them just come on here to pretend they are tech-smart, even though they lack basic mathematical knowledge and critical thinking skills. I'm waiting for the "down with capitalism" and "boycott Foxconn" posts to appear any moment.
I'm more concerned about the 22.2% suicide failure rate. Maybe they should teach a class about proper suicide methods or something..
I'm just sayin'
weak p.r. responses.
by the way, just let you all know Foxconn is actually a Taiwanese company.
The pool is open after and before regular work hours, that is, from 1am to 4am. No more than 1,000 out of the 400,000 employees are allowed in the pool at the same time.
- Foxconn Management
So what I'm hearing is, you buy an iPhone, you are endorsing this sweatshop, pseudo-slave labor?
guys, it looks to me most of comments fall on the wrong side:)
Suicide, as these are called by Foxconn, may very well be not what is properly defined worldwide. In quite few leaked reports, it is quite likely workers were pushed off the cliff either literally or psychologically.
Gou, the founder of Foxconn grew from a humble figure early in Taiwan running a small factory making some crap electronics. Compared to other Taiwan OEM giants of electronics, he would have never been as successful as today if he had not put his dirty feet in China among the first to explore cheap labours in China. Time proves he made a good decision, while many chinese have to suffer for economic growth that ensues.
Gou the mxfo boss' success, esp in China where he hires so many truly relies on his teams of "cadets" that he feeds well and will DO ANYTHING they can to march on direction GOU points to. These military-like NAZI-acting mid-level management teams together with other pseudo-cops (security) armed with batons and belts are the major problem right here. It's useless to compare the "suicide rate" per se.
Imagine, if you are a worker, working 12+ hours a day in the factory. Whenever you make a mistake be it trivial or not, the mad dogs will go after you in no time. In some cases, e.g. something stolen from the assembly lines, the suspected worker will soon see what hell is like. No kidding.
Chinese said, if the factory chief makes a call to the head of the city,
the mayor will come to his way right away. Chinese officials will never fall short of spoiling a GDP-generating machine like hellish Foxconn.
@nk Let me give you a 10 second lesson in economics: supply and demand, my friend, your demand drives "big companies'" output. Demand products from better working environments, (pay more for them), and there you go. That being said, I think keeping these potential abuses of workers (and keep in mind that Foxxconn probably *is* better than many other places) in the public eye is the first step in creating that demand for better made goods.
While the CEO showed off the pool, he failed to mention that its just for executives.
(I don't really know but would not be surprised).
Classic example of how not to do PR.
The suicide involved a prototype IPhone. Hmmmmm. Cops busting down people's doors, people killing themselves. New PROTOTYPE ITOUCH showing up on ebay then gone 15 min later. ....APPLE IS EVIL!
For a glimpse of the working conditions in chinese factories, read the pulitzer prize winning investigative journalist Loretta Tofani's editorial on salt lake city tribune.
http://extras.sltrib.com/china/
I know one thing. I will not likely be buying any iPhones, iTouch, iPads or any Dell & HP products that I know came from there. And I hope Engadget will soon release a list of all products manufactured at Foxconn.
This is just another example & proof that the Chinese govt(CPC) in cahoots with Chinese large corporations don't give a shit about their own people. They're merely seen as expendable entities to be literally worked to death & then casually discarded after use.
Workers there have no real, actual rights. And from what I've seen & heard, anytime a worker in a Chinese factory is seriously injured or permanently maimed, the official corporate & government response is "We can't afford to pay or compensate workers because if we ever do so, there's a possibility our economy will suffer. We can't afford to do anything to risk our (booming)economy losing momentum, so we can't afford to pay workers, including or especially injured workers anything more than minimum."
Bullshit! "Can't afford it" my ass! The corporate execs(in China and beyond, like San Jose, Round Rock, etc) are getting filthy rich on profits while workers like at Foxconn are basically doing slave labor! And many are jumping out windows. So far, corporate has gotten off scot free so to speak and they've merely shrugged & replaced worker THX-1138 with another.