You don't need to sit down, we're not about to hit you with any shocking news, but a recent BookExpo America convention has given publishers the chance to air out their laundry list of
complaints. Seriously, do these guys ever have anything positive to say? Now they've managed to pinpoint a flaw in the
Kindle and
iPad's resounding success, identifying the two ebook reading platforms as closed, and expressing a yearning for a universal and open format that all books can be published and consumed on. Of course, they wouldn't be publishers if they didn't also lust after robust DRM measures, which might explain why they're not roundly supporting the readily available EPUB format. It has DRM options, but perhaps they're not gnarly enough for the dudes responsible for bringing us the psychological horror of the
Twilight series. We still don't like the suggestion that the people, Amazon primarily, who popularized this market should just open it up out of the goodness of their own hearts -- maybe we would if publishers ever showed themselves capable of doing similarly noble things.
posted June 1st 2010 6:56AM
Let the standardization BEGIN!
@ArhcAngel Let the failure BEGIN! FTFY
Honestly, two biggest players in the game don't have enough incentive for standardization to begin. Additionally, I want this to fail for the reason that there are better alternatives that can and will succeed if brought to the market.
F them for halfhearted attempts at reform. Some see this as better than the status quo, I see this as not nearly enough to support.
@ArhcAngel
I know of two great formats! .txt and paper. Yes,paper.
While I would not want to stand up for them, another thing to take in mind is Amazon covers the cost of handling the Whispernet wireless system w/o charging Kindle buyers a monthly/annual rate. The only way they keep that system running is some of the money they make on book sales.
I do have a problem with how much Amazon tries to collect on book sales, but it seems like the publishers want to have their own control, bypassing the Kindle's ecosystem, but have them work on the device.
The iPad does not have the same network upkeep, but then again, it will read these different formats, although not be as pretty as what iBooks allows.....
@ArhcAngel
The iPad uses ePub already. The complaint here is that the ePub doesn't have ENOUGH DRM. And that's a complaint because they're greedy. ePub is far better for end users because it already is a standard and it's free.
lol apple will never allow this...it means they have less control
@greekpete94 Newsflash: iBookstore supports EPUB
@bnutzinger Even with that so, it's still DRM'd-up EPUB. I don't think they'd be pushing DRM-free until another major e-tailer starts the trend in that direction and more-or-less forces their hand.
@juanvaldez .. Apple allows you to use ANY ePub file you want:
http://www.apple.com/itunes/itunes-news/2010/04/using-itunes-to-add-epub-files-to-ibooks.html
@taligent I didn't make a clear point, I'm only talking about what they sell. They allow multiple ways that you can buy and store content, but they only sell it one way...IINM
@taligent Apple does *not* let you use any EPUB you want. You can only use non-DRM'ed EPUBs, which effectively means only Gutenberg versions, which you can also get from the iBookstore.
All the big players in the EPUB market (fictionwise, books on board, etc) use Adobe DRM, and in fact most publishers insist that Adobe DRM be used because it's actually pretty secure.
Those books, i.e. any EPUB you've ever bought, are not viewable on the iPad.
@juanvaldez The DRM issue isn't coming from Apple or Amazon, it's coming from the publishers. No DRM, no letting you sell the book. Using different DRM, well that's up to the merchant, but unless everyone opens up, there's no point (i.e., if Amazon isn't going to open up, why should Apple open up their standard?)
@dank0 You're exactly right: publishers want some form of DRM on their content, but because Adobe's isn't free (it's not even cheap, minimum license fee of $75,000/year, plus $5,000 for the Content Server, plus yearly 'encryption server access fee', *plus* a per-transaction fee that varies depending on how long you want to give the book away for) merchants like Apple and Amazon want to use their own, and that ties us into their own platforms.
Kindle (actually Mobipocket format) is less onerous to use than Adobe's DRM (it's free!) but EPUB is in higher use, and Adobe's DRM has more capabilities too.
@dank0
DRM is bullshit...
No matter what kind of DRM it is and no matter how much money goes into making it THE standard -- someone is going to circumvent it and publish how to do it online...and then all that time and money spent creating said DRM format was completely 100% wasted.
Lol. It's iPad's and Kindle's fault now? Use .txt!
@Atkins Ha exactly! First they're friends makin' deals and what not, now they want out. Yeah, the Twilight saga is cheaper when you're reading it in Notepad....not that I would know. =P
@Atkins
Actually, Engadget's reporting is bad here.
There is an almost disturbing thing at work with this type of commentary. The book publishers are trying to use the "open/closed" lingo as a way of pushing for something nonsensical. The only REAL "open" is simply allowing Apple to publish ePub format without DRM. Period. Other than that, it doesn't make any sense, because it begins derailing smaller publishers who can't afford licensing interoperable formats like Adobe's or others.
Moreover, the concept of "shared" DRM is absolutely STUPID. EVERYONE has been saying this to content publishers for a while now. All DRM is inevitably broken. The ONLY recourse is to quickly update or patch it to reassert security (Adobe does this fairly easily on the desktop with Adobe Updater, on mobile devices... MUCH more complicated a proposition). Apple has much more latitude on its own devices (to update them), than it would across numerous devices on other manufacturers. Their contracts warrant this. That's the main rational Apple has for not "cooperating" to spread its own FairPlay DRM to other vendors. Not simply "lock in", but becoming liable for everyone elses' update practices and exposing your methodology to being much more easily and reliably hacked, etc.
At the end of the day, I just wish they didn't think to bring up the subject. There IS NO INTEROPERABLE DRM SOLUTION. Get over it. Has that council on DRM interoperability ever produced anything? I thought Microsoft drifted off.
where those guys really protesting about the ebook stuff or was it just an excuse to walk around like that ^!
books purchased from kindle should be transportable to iPad and vice versa.
@rochmind
The iPad has a Kindle app.
Haven't they learned /anything/ from the music biz?
@Malcolm
To be fair, the music business is significantly different. Musicians can make money from gigs, concerts and merchandise, authors have what? Book signings?
That being said, I disagree with DRM. You sell products by impressing, not depressing users.
@Glitch
I don't know, I generally dislike DRM but I can see the point with wanting to have it on ebooks. With music it takes all of 5 minutes to digitize a CD you buy, it was VERY easy to get digital MP3's that can be shared, thus putting DRM on songs from places like iTunes really never made sense to me.
However, there never really has been an easy way to pirate books, its always been a very small scale. No photocopy shop wants to bother copying and selling books worth as little as mass market paperbacks. Very few people will scan an entire book and put it online.
With this explosion of ebooks, more and more books are coming out in digital format. If there was no DRM they would be CREATING a situation where its easy to pirate a book rather than buy it. I have no problems with the publishers trying to protect their industry from being easily exploited and pirated. You can make every argument you want about DRM, but the numbers from gaming/music/movies have shown that it IS a large issue. There are a lot of people out there who WOULDN'T buy it if they could download/pirate it for free.
@Glitch While it's not as widespread, there are non-print ways they can make money in addition to the signings. Book readings, guest appearances and lectures and audiobooks. The pickings are slimmer, available to fewer authors and with a smaller purse available, but there are options.
I think another difference is that while there have always been libraries for books, they aren't as convenient and as frequently used as access to free music throughout the past few decades from radio/musicTV(not MTV ;0), to making easy dubs of tapes. So, the culture has allowed some cheapskates being able to get their music fix for free.
In the end, and mostly to your point, I think most people have a certain budget to devote towards their favorite forms of entertainment and when things are really good they might try to slightly expand the budget and when there's a lack of good options they contract their budget. Publish good content and you don't have to worry much about if you do/don't have DRM (to those who wish to argue please read "Piracy is Progressive Taxation" by Tim O'Reilly - a publisher, http://openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2002/12/11/piracy.html )
@PaulN You can make every argument you want about DRM, but the numbers from gaming/music/movies have shown that it IS a large issue. - Really? Drank the Kool-Aid, did you?
There are a lot of people out there who WOULDN'T buy it if they could download/pirate it for free. - There are even more who WOULDN"T buy it if they COULDN'T download it for free. I think what you are actually looking for is "There are a lot of people who would no longer buy it if they could download it for free." How many people download something for free is irrelevant to the conversation on how piracy affects revenue without a stronger premise. And, if you actually know, radio and piracy of e-books have shown to give greater revenue to publishers, read my link above.
*one caveat of the link, Tim O'Reilly is definitely a niche publisher, but he's a strong-experienced voice coming from both a writer's and a publishers stance who makes his bank on all the relevant issues at hand.
@PaulN
Um.. excuse me? No easy way? Sheesh, what century are you living in bud?
@PaulN This is completely meaningless because DRM doesn't work, especially with books. Computer programs are about the only medium where DRM even stands a chance because they are complex and interactive so that they can be disabled if the DRM is circumvented, and that is still not very successful. With books, all it takes is one copy leaked or whatever and the DRM suddenly only affects legal users. With books, if a group of 1000 people joined they could each take a single page and scan it (or even type it) to produce an illegal copy. Individuals spend way more hours cracking software DRM than would ever be needed for a book, and there wouldn't even be any expertise necessary. There will be copies of books available to pirate. DRM will not prevent that. All DRM will do is impede people that want to legally own books. A person will buy a book for their IPAD and then three years later they'll be upset because that book is locked down and no longer works on their new device.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Publisher1: We need a open standard
Publisher2: Yeah!
Publisher3: Yeah, just let's not use the standard already available and widely accepted. We need another standard!
Publisher1,2,3: Yeah!
.....and I want peace on Earth.
I wanted that first!
* lawsuit *
I'm about as techy as they come, loads of pooters, computer sceintist, android phone, media centre blah blah blah blah. All of that shit.
I'm never going to read books from a big ole tablet, on a computer screen.
Yes amazon's kindle is a big ole tablet too.
@Rumblejazz
Maybe I'm old school but I agree. I see no point in investing in an e-reader when I literally live next to a library.
@Rumblejazz Same here, I'm a young techy type, and don't see the point of eReaders which cost as much as 20 paperbacks (and that's before you even buy eBooks for it).
@zeroinfinity2 agree. i don't live next to a library, but can go to one pretty easily. i barely buy books anymore.
@zeroinfinity2 Not everyone lives right next to a library.
There's a pretty simple solution here, you use .epub for regular books, and .djvu for image intense titles and comic books. Both are open standards, and both have standardized secure formats, Adobe's secure .epub works just fine, as does .sdjvu.
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/EPUB
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/DjVu
Economics 101: commoditise your complements
Well, its about time!!!!!!!!!! This is has been holding me back from getting a reader because I do not want to be locked into an Apple or Amazon format. I guess this is natural progress but it is about time! One standard similiar to HTML please!
@Zo
The iPad uses ePub, which is as open as they come. Next time you should probably do some research.
pdf
we love adobe
Google books. The end
@iucidium
Also ePub.
There is no way to publish on the apple store without going through a third party like Lulu is there? P
@godwheel Apparently just a few days ago Apple started allowing users to self-publish their books on the iBookstore without going through an intermediary. See, for example, http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/05/ibooks-opened-to-self-publishers.ars
I've got the Nook and it's nice being able to read pdf or epub, along with B&Ns format. I agree with @Dinochicken though- epub and djvu will work just fine.
I think EPUB has enough traction right now. What the publishers are really saying is they don't like Adobe's control over the DRM.
@notfred
Everybody hates Adobe these days, huh?
ePub is... an open standard.. no?
:S
@Wesscoast
The format itself is. However this standard does not currently specify one specific DRM solution, and as a result Adobe, Apple, and B&N have each applied their own ones to it.
I would like to see a universal format as it would benefit readers, who could read their books on any device. Having said that, Amazon's Kindle format comes somewhat slightly close, as there's desktop and even iPhone/iPad versions of their reader. Of course, their iPhone reader is pretty lousy, and I doubt they are going to be motivated to make it better as they'd much rather you bought a Kindle. That's the problem with that. If they were just making/selling the e-books all would be well, but they aren't.