Yeah, we had a few issues with the Linux build installed on Fusion Garage's JooJoo tablet, but were things really so bad that we needed to shoehorn Windows 7 onto the thing? Nah, but who wouldn't enjoy that challenge? One darkdavy has somehow been able to install a fresh copy of Win7 onto his JooJoo, and while he notes that it's currently running a wee bit warm, the touch panel is working and the battery is lasting around four hours on a full charge. Utilizing the stock hardware (a 4GB SSD and 1GB of RAM), he's experiencing "flawless" 720p movie playback, and various other members are mentioning successful installs of both Windows Embedded Compact 7 (via MSDN) and Windows 7 Home. The only major hang-ups are the lack of accelerometer support and the inability to use 3G, but we're pretty confident that both of those issues will be sorted in short order. Don't believe us? Head on past the break and mash play, and then hit the source link to get in on the fun yourself.
Honestly, I'm surprised they sold enough units to have any sort of community to even attempt this.
It's atom-based with ION, so we shouldn't be surprised that it can run Windows 7 and play 720p flawlessly... The only major problem I can see in attempting this is that it only has a 4GB SSD and Windows 7 alone is like 4x that unless they take a bunch of stuff out.
@The Advanced Kind Probably a custom modded version like Tiny 7 or something. You never know those modders can be sneaky little devils and add stuff that SHOULDN'T technically work. Hell, just look at the guy that got multitouch working on a resistive touch screen that engadget recently
I loved this demo. The hardware is quite stylish, not some thick HP Slate and that UI is pretty snappy with Ion. I wish Microsoft would refine the interface on Windows 7 though, just adding big taskbar icons doesn't make it good for touch.
If it had more internal storage like even 32GB or 64GB SSD, this would make a superb alternative to a netbook.
Amazing how quickly one demo changes your opinion of a product entirely. One downside is the Win 7 license would increase the cost as well as the larger internal storage. You're then getting to $699 territory, which is by far going to kill the market for this.
@The Advanced Kind tiny win7 is 1.2gb on install. personal experience. I did have trouble with it though, primarily cracking it for my own purposes but hey.
Ya, making the taskbar larger is not all it takes and that says nothing of EVERY SINGLE other program you install that doesn't have touch in mind. This hack actually makes the product worse.
yeah... 16:9 is such a "long weird aspect ratio"... oh wait.. it's 2010 and most netbooks and laptops have 16:9 because people want to actually watch video with their devices.
Windows 7 does have good touch but right now for the JooJoo its not setup right (trying to figure it out on mine)
Currently the drivers are using either PS/2 or R232 interface. Windows Touch will only work with USB HID input (the drivers do all three but there is still some tweaking) because of that it is just running Windows while forcing a mouse input through, not using the proper USB channels to allow dual inputs.
Also I plan on keeping Windows 7 Embedded Standard. The entire install can be had for under 2gb with all the features and is leaps faster then the full trimmed version.
Btw there are multiple versions of Embedded, CE is made for tiny devices with limited ROM space, not a tablet type PC.
@Exxodium Competition is great...the best thing you could ask for as a consumer and gadget connoisseur is a wide range \ selection of devices to choose from so you can find the one that best meets all of your needs.
it's really sad though that the iPad basically has _no _ competition at all, at this point anyways...JooJoo? Yeah right, this is a piece of junk...I'm literally surprised that they got even 50 orders for the damn thing. What other products do we have to choose from right now if we are looking for a decent tablet computer?
There's like nothing...and Google are so disorganized right now they have two different tablet OS's -- each one not being ready for prime time yet imho...Android on a tablet would be so awesome...but it's just not mature enough yet.
And I am still pissed at HP for not bringing the slate to market..I don't see how Apple keeps beating everyone else to the punch time and time again...Yeah a WebOS slate would be great too -- but if they would have done it right, a Windows 7 slate could have succeeded...it's obvious there are lots of features lacking on the iPad, and more importantly...people WANT alternatives...Android is a great example of this.
I am just hoping it won't take too much longer before we start seeing some decent tablets hit the market...but I'm not going to hold my breath...chances are, most will be delayed or just plain cancelled for one reason or another.
@Exxodium Also, when did the rumors start that apple was working on a tablet...like last year in september? And I bet their competitors (HP, etc) knew even before that...yet they STILL have not been able to bring anything decent to market to compete against them!
The only reason I got my iPad was that there was nothing else to choose from...I was actually waiting for the HP Slate to come out, and then the day Engadget ran that article saying they cancelled it, I let out a huge "FUUUUUUUUUUU" and went down to the Apple store :\
Netbooks have proven time and again that people prefer Windows 7.
This is running a regular 1.6Ghz Atom processor w/ a 1GB of RAM. Sounds very netbooky to me. A vLite (aka stripped) W7 is how it should have shipped in the first place. =)
@taligent I know I have linked you to articles in the past showing you without a doubt that multi-touch input was a design consideration for Windows7 out of the gate.
Icon sizing, menu spacing, and everything is adjusted automatically when a touchscreen display is detected in Windows 7.
You may not think it was made WELL for touch input, but it was 100% design with intention to be used on touch-interface devices from launch.
I don't know what you're smoking, but I want some. I'm developing a few touch enabled applications for Windows and have tested them on several touch devices running on Win7, including Dell's SX2210T 22" touch monitor and the HP LD4200TM 42" touch display. Windows 7 does not adjust itself in any way when it detects a touch device. Icon size and menu spacing remain the exact same. Navigating Windows 7 with a large touch screen is doable, but not preferable. On a small tablet device, it would absolutely not be a pleasant experience.
Sorry, but W7 doesn't run APPS, it runs applications, or programs.
And, I have yet to see one program that doesn't work with a touch screen. Blender, and SketchUp are a hassle without a full KB. Of course I've yet to see an APP half as useful as either of those.
There are quite a lot of us that much prefer Linux, its the better system imho ;)
Windows 7 is again more of the same thing, meh at best.. For the clueless majority that buy into marketing and bull and really dont know any better they have a choice of windows xp , vista or 7 .. No wonder windows 7 is the "fastest" selling..
Come back to me when windows can do half of what Compiz can do :
@taligent OK, well you said Windows was not, when thats clearly not the case.
That is true about the applications, but the W7 150% option usually addresses that quite well by simply making the menus and buttons universally larger without having to stray from native resolution.
And don't forget that the Windows 7 touch experience when it comes to right clicking, bumps, gestures, inertia, text prediction and so forth all work in ANY application, and multitouch will work for your pictures, movies, media center, and other MS programs you'd be regularly using. =)
@McDuckScrooged dude i use linux and what alot of it is, is flash and effect. Although I do prefer it, and like that it forces you to be more computer savvy, windows can do what linux does just simpler.
@jon .. Are you serious ? .. Apps has been short for applications for 20+ years. Apple did not invent "apps" nor are they specific to mobile devices.
And I am not saying that apps won't work with a touch screen. Of course they will. Just that they aren't designed for it. So often they have small UI controls e.g. any of Adobe's products.
@McDuckScrooged Why would you even want your computer to do all of that....seriously?
all that crap does is hog your precious resources.
Aslo E17 is fucking nasty looking. Are you psychotic? Gnome and compiz or KDE 4 have much better effects without the disgusting, and revolting E17 style.
@taligent He was clearly referring to the fact that "apps" of late has been the coined term for the barebones micro-applications that are lightweight enough to run on the popular smartphones.
W7 doesn't run "apps" it runs real applications, and a visit to www.download.com shows that the amount of development and dollars put into that ecosystem is prodigiously herculean.
@YoYo -- Each to their own, its called choice.. If you dont like it you can turn it off, if you do it stomps on aero.. I have the cpu cycles and the GPU to use all of it without any detrimental effect -- I even enable the cube stuff on my laptop, because it doesnt impact its performance.. :)
@Ducman I am sure you can get software to try and emulate its functionality on windows but its not the same thing, sorry ;)
As for the comment about e17, enlightenment 17 has been in development from about 2000.. Rasterman is an absolute perfectionist that's why its still considered to be in development. Its one of the best looking desktops around and its incredibly fast it even did a lot of stuff before mac osx.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10kg2aSB8q4&feature=related If you actually ever used it you would understand, its unique, its beautiful and above all its incredibly fast. It has to be one of the fastest desktops I have used on Linux http://www.enlightenment.org/ (I am not in any way associated with enlightenment I just have a lot of respect for the developers, its absolutely beautiful work )
Get real homey! That was lamest most wrong statement I've heard in a while. But since you can get a cheap ass netbook for about $290.00 along with an expired can of spam at your local dollar store, then yeah most people will have windows.
@McDuckScrooged It doesn't have the ease of use and ecosystem of W7 though, and thus may suit you beautifully, but IMO wouldn't sell more or make more peeps happy.
Ubuntu isn't bad either, but most recall the Dell article about the very high return rate of those netbooks compared to the Windows ones that people were perhaps just more comfortable and familiar with.
Hence why IMO, while the JooJoo still has hardware issues to address, putting W7 on it from day 1 would have been a selling point.
What was that you were saying exactly ? Was that some Microsoft marketing, that happens to actually be false ?
Even HP scrapped its windows7 slate offering, which was basically same form factor.. Running a full fledged os on a touch screen only input is a bit dumb, HP with all its wealth didnt see the point or must have run into some major hurdles with the platform and you want JooJoo to deliver it ?.. This is exactly why apple uses the iphone os rather than Mac OSX and exactly why HP has bought Palm..
The problem with the JooJoo is in execution, it wants to be an iPad or for that matter Google Chrome, but the UI hasnt had the polish.. I wouldn't buy it in its current incarnation and I definitely wouldn't buy it with windows7.. Its the implementation of the UI that they need to fix, not to ditch the whole platform and jump onto another that will have a hundred extra problems and increase the cost of production even further..
So yeah while I commend the guys behind this for doing it, they deserve a round of applause.. I think you should ask them how useful it is for day to day operations and/or how annoying it is.. That would in turn probably answer all of your questions and would probably explain to you why a company such as HP would be willing to show off the slate running win7, allow Balmer to show it off and then decide to ditch it..
@Ducman69 I think pspits saw the mention of rasterman and though of rasta as in rastafarian .. :)
Rasterman is called rasterman I would assume because of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raster_graphics and not cos he is a dread locking wearing rasta toking hard, he may do that as well, but hey its all good by me one people, one love.
@McDuckScrooged What are you talking about? HP has never said that they have scrapped the Slate yet alone provided any reason for something they never said in the first place.
Those rumors are about as valid and helpful as the supposed Sprint network data cap.
If you have to resort to misinformation to defend your viewpoint, you blew it.
@McDuckScrooged We agree the JooJoo execution is flawed, but if the JooJoo really wanted to be an iPad, it'd be sporting cellphone class internals attached to a big screen.
I'm not sure whats so confusing behind the idea that there is a market for a well executed more capable device over an iPod Touch thats too big to fit in your pocket. That market is well covered now.
Now that we've thrown 'em off the trail, use the form below to get in touch with the people at Engadget. Please fill in all of the required fields because they're required.
posted June 12th 2010 11:58PM
Finally, the JooJoo can be made into a marginally marketable device.
@SolidSnake How ab webos??
@SolidSnake Its snappy and after when modderes sort little things this thing is gonna rock. I want.
@SolidSnake
Honestly, I'm surprised they sold enough units to have any sort of community to even attempt this.
It's atom-based with ION, so we shouldn't be surprised that it can run Windows 7 and play 720p flawlessly... The only major problem I can see in attempting this is that it only has a 4GB SSD and Windows 7 alone is like 4x that unless they take a bunch of stuff out.
@The Advanced Kind Probably a custom modded version like Tiny 7 or something. You never know those modders can be sneaky little devils and add stuff that SHOULDN'T technically work. Hell, just look at the guy that got multitouch working on a resistive touch screen that engadget recently
@SolidSnake
Still not paying $499.... F that...
@SolidSnake
I loved this demo. The hardware is quite stylish, not some thick HP Slate and that UI is pretty snappy with Ion. I wish Microsoft would refine the interface on Windows 7 though, just adding big taskbar icons doesn't make it good for touch.
If it had more internal storage like even 32GB or 64GB SSD, this would make a superb alternative to a netbook.
Amazing how quickly one demo changes your opinion of a product entirely. One downside is the Win 7 license would increase the cost as well as the larger internal storage. You're then getting to $699 territory, which is by far going to kill the market for this.
@The Advanced Kind
tiny win7 is 1.2gb on install. personal experience. I did have trouble with it though, primarily cracking it for my own purposes but hey.
@The Advanced Kind
I don't think they have a community. I think this guy was frustrated with what he got and decided to make it better.
@TinWard
Ya, making the taskbar larger is not all it takes and that says nothing of EVERY SINGLE other program you install that doesn't have touch in mind. This hack actually makes the product worse.
@TinWard I completely agree with refining the UI. Its like WinMo all over again. Fishing for that x button to close out windows is a pain in the ass.
@DoctarPeppar
yeah... 16:9 is such a "long weird aspect ratio"... oh wait.. it's 2010 and most netbooks and laptops have 16:9 because people want to actually watch video with their devices.
16:9 is awesome whether you realize it or not.
@The Advanced Kind
Sorry, I like the aspect ratio, I just don't like how large the screen is.
@TinWard
Windows 7 does have good touch but right now for the JooJoo its not setup right (trying to figure it out on mine)
Currently the drivers are using either PS/2 or R232 interface. Windows Touch will only work with USB HID input (the drivers do all three but there is still some tweaking) because of that it is just running Windows while forcing a mouse input through, not using the proper USB channels to allow dual inputs.
Also I plan on keeping Windows 7 Embedded Standard. The entire install can be had for under 2gb with all the features and is leaps faster then the full trimmed version.
Btw there are multiple versions of Embedded, CE is made for tiny devices with limited ROM space, not a tablet type PC.
@mcbeaven
Agreed. He totally had a hard time closing down apps. Oh wait ...
@mcbeaven
his hand gesture at the 1:20 mark when he starts typing makes me cringe
Impressive, Win7 on a JooJoo Table.
http://windows7.iyogi.net/
iPad is the best !
@littlea I like my iPad too, but you don't need to go saying that everything else sucks.
For one to win does not mean everyone else needs to lose; competition is good.
@Exxodium
Competition is great...the best thing you could ask for as a consumer and gadget connoisseur is a wide range \ selection of devices to choose from so you can find the one that best meets all of your needs.
it's really sad though that the iPad basically has _no _ competition at all, at this point anyways...JooJoo? Yeah right, this is a piece of junk...I'm literally surprised that they got even 50 orders for the damn thing. What other products do we have to choose from right now if we are looking for a decent tablet computer?
There's like nothing...and Google are so disorganized right now they have two different tablet OS's -- each one not being ready for prime time yet imho...Android on a tablet would be so awesome...but it's just not mature enough yet.
And I am still pissed at HP for not bringing the slate to market..I don't see how Apple keeps beating everyone else to the punch time and time again...Yeah a WebOS slate would be great too -- but if they would have done it right, a Windows 7 slate could have succeeded...it's obvious there are lots of features lacking on the iPad, and more importantly...people WANT alternatives...Android is a great example of this.
I am just hoping it won't take too much longer before we start seeing some decent tablets hit the market...but I'm not going to hold my breath...chances are, most will be delayed or just plain cancelled for one reason or another.
@Exxodium
Also, when did the rumors start that apple was working on a tablet...like last year in september? And I bet their competitors (HP, etc) knew even before that...yet they STILL have not been able to bring anything decent to market to compete against them!
The only reason I got my iPad was that there was nothing else to choose from...I was actually waiting for the HP Slate to come out, and then the day Engadget ran that article saying they cancelled it, I let out a huge "FUUUUUUUUUUU" and went down to the Apple store :\
Netbooks have proven time and again that people prefer Windows 7.
This is running a regular 1.6Ghz Atom processor w/ a 1GB of RAM. Sounds very netbooky to me. A vLite (aka stripped) W7 is how it should have shipped in the first place. =)
@Ducman69 .. Netbooks are nothing more than smaller laptops. Of course Windows 7 is going to be a suitable option because you still use a trackpad.
But I would strongly disagree that it is suited for touch screen devices. The OS was designed for accurate input methods which your finger is not.
Microsoft would do much better if they made the Windows Phone 7 OS available for tablet makers.
@Ducman69
"Netbooks have proven time and again that people prefer Windows 7"
Maybe some do... I certainly don't.
@taligent Speaking as a tablet user I would say that Windows 7 is great for inaccurate touch.
It's most apps which aren't designed with touch in mind.
The OS itself is pretty touch smart.
@taligent They've got Embedded 7 or something like that designed for tablets and WP7 for phones.
@taligent I know I have linked you to articles in the past showing you without a doubt that multi-touch input was a design consideration for Windows7 out of the gate.
Icon sizing, menu spacing, and everything is adjusted automatically when a touchscreen display is detected in Windows 7.
You may not think it was made WELL for touch input, but it was 100% design with intention to be used on touch-interface devices from launch.
@psc2
W7 is the fastest selling OS in history, I think you're in the minority.
@jon Mainly because everyone wanted to get away from vista ASAP.
@Ducman69 .. But the APPS aren't. That is the whole point. Every app on the iPhone, Android, WP7 etc are designed for touch screen devices.
Almost none on WP7 are. OneNote is pretty much the only notable example.
@XChrisX
Tell that to all the people on Steam jumping from XP to 7.
You know, the hardcore gamers who never used Vista because of how "terrible" it was.
All the average people already switched to Vista when they bought a new computer in the last three years.
@Ducman69
I don't know what you're smoking, but I want some. I'm developing a few touch enabled applications for Windows and have tested them on several touch devices running on Win7, including Dell's SX2210T 22" touch monitor and the HP LD4200TM 42" touch display. Windows 7 does not adjust itself in any way when it detects a touch device. Icon size and menu spacing remain the exact same. Navigating Windows 7 with a large touch screen is doable, but not preferable. On a small tablet device, it would absolutely not be a pleasant experience.
@taligent
Sorry, but W7 doesn't run APPS, it runs applications, or programs.
And, I have yet to see one program that doesn't work with a touch screen.
Blender, and SketchUp are a hassle without a full KB. Of course I've yet to see an APP half as useful as either of those.
@XChrisX Touche', lol! But cmon, gotta give W7 props. It deserves the praise it has received.
@Ducman69 Really ?
There are quite a lot of us that much prefer Linux, its the better system imho ;)
Windows 7 is again more of the same thing, meh at best.. For the clueless majority that buy into marketing and bull and really dont know any better they have a choice of windows xp , vista or 7 .. No wonder windows 7 is the "fastest" selling..
Come back to me when windows can do half of what Compiz can do :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH9WLrcsrx8 --> Thats e17 and compiz gotta love it.. This is why I love Linux ...
@taligent OK, well you said Windows was not, when thats clearly not the case.
That is true about the applications, but the W7 150% option usually addresses that quite well by simply making the menus and buttons universally larger without having to stray from native resolution.
And don't forget that the Windows 7 touch experience when it comes to right clicking, bumps, gestures, inertia, text prediction and so forth all work in ANY application, and multitouch will work for your pictures, movies, media center, and other MS programs you'd be regularly using. =)
@McDuckScrooged From a sales standpoint, W7 was preferred by most users, whatever the reason.
Love Compiz btw, and I used to run software on Windows that rips off those features almost exactly.
Cube desktop was one of my favorites.
@McDuckScrooged dude i use linux and what alot of it is, is flash and effect. Although I do prefer it, and like that it forces you to be more computer savvy, windows can do what linux does just simpler.
@jon .. Are you serious ? .. Apps has been short for applications for 20+ years. Apple did not invent "apps" nor are they specific to mobile devices.
And I am not saying that apps won't work with a touch screen. Of course they will. Just that they aren't designed for it. So often they have small UI controls e.g. any of Adobe's products.
@McDuckScrooged Why would you even want your computer to do all of that....seriously?
all that crap does is hog your precious resources.
Aslo E17 is fucking nasty looking. Are you psychotic? Gnome and compiz or KDE 4 have much better effects without the disgusting, and revolting E17 style.
@McDuckScrooged i am Linux user and hate comp
it serve no purpose wobbly windows great spin my desktop like a cube great it flash and pretty
but i turn it off mainly cuz it does nothing i actually find useful and just slow my computer down
also most major Linux nerds also don't use it
@taligent He was clearly referring to the fact that "apps" of late has been the coined term for the barebones micro-applications that are lightweight enough to run on the popular smartphones.
W7 doesn't run "apps" it runs real applications, and a visit to www.download.com shows that the amount of development and dollars put into that ecosystem is prodigiously herculean.
@YoYo -- Each to their own, its called choice.. If you dont like it you can turn it off, if you do it stomps on aero.. I have the cpu cycles and the GPU to use all of it without any detrimental effect -- I even enable the cube stuff on my laptop, because it doesnt impact its performance.. :)
@Ducman I am sure you can get software to try and emulate its functionality on windows but its not the same thing, sorry ;)
As for the comment about e17, enlightenment 17 has been in development from about 2000.. Rasterman is an absolute perfectionist that's why its still considered to be in development. Its one of the best looking desktops around and its incredibly fast it even did a lot of stuff before mac osx.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10kg2aSB8q4&feature=related If you actually ever used it you would understand, its unique, its beautiful and above all its incredibly fast. It has to be one of the fastest desktops I have used on Linux http://www.enlightenment.org/ (I am not in any way associated with enlightenment I just have a lot of respect for the developers, its absolutely beautiful work )
@Ducman69
Get real homey!
That was lamest most wrong statement I've heard in a while. But since you can get a cheap ass netbook for about $290.00 along with an expired can of spam at your local dollar store, then yeah most people will have windows.
@McDuckScrooged It doesn't have the ease of use and ecosystem of W7 though, and thus may suit you beautifully, but IMO wouldn't sell more or make more peeps happy.
Ubuntu isn't bad either, but most recall the Dell article about the very high return rate of those netbooks compared to the Windows ones that people were perhaps just more comfortable and familiar with.
Hence why IMO, while the JooJoo still has hardware issues to address, putting W7 on it from day 1 would have been a selling point.
@pspitts You gotsta back off wit dat mess homeslice.
Oh wait, I'm a middle-class suburban white guy.... apologies, got caught up in all the ebonic excitement.
@Ducman69 Really ?
http://blog.laptopmag.com/one-third-of-dell-inspiron-mini-9s-sold-run-linux
Begs to differ, thats 33% attach rate, also :
http://www.osnews.com/story/21986/Dell_Linux_Netbook_High_Return_Rate_Non-Issue_
and finally:
"Todd Finch, Dell senior product marketing manager, said the number of Linux returns are approximately the same as those for Windows netbooks. He categorized the matter of returns as a "non-issue"." -- from http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/12/dell_reality_linux_windows_netbooks/
What was that you were saying exactly ? Was that some Microsoft marketing, that happens to actually be false ?
Even HP scrapped its windows7 slate offering, which was basically same form factor.. Running a full fledged os on a touch screen only input is a bit dumb, HP with all its wealth didnt see the point or must have run into some major hurdles with the platform and you want JooJoo to deliver it ?.. This is exactly why apple uses the iphone os rather than Mac OSX and exactly why HP has bought Palm..
The problem with the JooJoo is in execution, it wants to be an iPad or for that matter Google Chrome, but the UI hasnt had the polish.. I wouldn't buy it in its current incarnation and I definitely wouldn't buy it with windows7.. Its the implementation of the UI that they need to fix, not to ditch the whole platform and jump onto another that will have a hundred extra problems and increase the cost of production even further..
So yeah while I commend the guys behind this for doing it, they deserve a round of applause.. I think you should ask them how useful it is for day to day operations and/or how annoying it is.. That would in turn probably answer all of your questions and would probably explain to you why a company such as HP would be willing to show off the slate running win7, allow Balmer to show it off and then decide to ditch it..
@Ducman69 I think pspits saw the mention of rasterman and though of rasta as in rastafarian .. :)
Rasterman is called rasterman I would assume because of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raster_graphics and not cos he is a dread locking wearing rasta toking hard, he may do that as well, but hey its all good by me one people, one love.
@McDuckScrooged What are you talking about? HP has never said that they have scrapped the Slate yet alone provided any reason for something they never said in the first place.
Those rumors are about as valid and helpful as the supposed Sprint network data cap.
If you have to resort to misinformation to defend your viewpoint, you blew it.
@McDuckScrooged We agree the JooJoo execution is flawed, but if the JooJoo really wanted to be an iPad, it'd be sporting cellphone class internals attached to a big screen.
I'm not sure whats so confusing behind the idea that there is a market for a well executed more capable device over an iPod Touch thats too big to fit in your pocket. That market is well covered now.