It's fairly obvious that the howls around the web for
Apple to address this
antenna issue has gotten underneath the skin of one Steve Jobs, and in a fashion that's very much unlike Apple (or AT&T, for that matter), the aforesaid CEO has actually handed out a bit of hard data surrounding dropped calls on the
iPhone 4. According to Jobs, AT&T won't reveal the exact amount of
call drops for competitive reasons, but they
did manage to push out a meaningful delta. As of today, they've noticed that the "iPhone 4 drops less than one additional call per 100 than the 3GS." In other words, the iPhone 4 has actually been dropping
more calls than the 3GS in the three weeks that the former has been on the market. Of course, Steve's also playing up the fact that just a fraction of a percent of all buyers have bothered to call in about their bout with dropped calls (and why would you, knowing
there's no cure?), but it's still interesting to finally get some cold, hard facts on this disaster. Even if it's but a snippet.
posted July 16th 2010 12:36PM
@Element115
"But they didn't they are delibertly hiding facts and when the return period is over "
Or they are speaking in a language that normal (non-geeks) people can understand?
I don't get dropped calls and I live in Hicksville, Midwest so the proximity sensor is the only issue that annoys me. That fix can't come soon enough. Still not enough of a problem where I'm to the point of switching carriers (again) and buying an Android based model. I guess that makes me an ignorant, slobbering fanboy.
As for the return rates, if any of you have worked in channel marketing those numbers are very good. Especially in the fickle world of consumer electronics. Even the most jaded, know-nothing Best Buy employee would concur.
isn't the point of the new antenna to make reception better????
@SitOnMyFaceTime You really should have mentioned the fact that the 3GS and 3G were the same form factor. And as Steve said, 80% of people already had a case, or bought a case for the 3GS. So the reception issues weren't as bad. Since it's hard to get an iPhone 4 case at the moment, not as many people have one.
I feel lied to. When they first presented the iPhone 4, they said that they moved the antennas outside so that it would have fewer dropped calls than the 3GS. Today they say it actually has more dropped calls, and the reason they placed the antennas outside was to have space inside for a larger battery. Which is it?
Question the data analysis. 45 days of iphone 4 vs 1 years worth of 3gs data? Applws to oranges comparisons
@onedollar
Well, considering it's only been out for 45 days, would you have liked them to make up some statistics for a full year?
Wait, shouldn't he be boasting improvement instead of letting everyone know for a fact that the 4 is worse than the 3GS. Way to go apple, way to admit the phone is shit without having to tell everyone you fucked up and produced shit. But, wait, Steve Jobs never makes anything bad so everyone is just holding it wrong. Listen up everyone you need to cater to Steve.
I'll just wait for the newest Droid to come out. Enough of this iPhone3 being trashed by the iOS4 update. http://www.Driod.com
lolz i bet that is because everybody is trying the deathgrip
Translation: The new iphone only drops slightly more calls than a phone that drops a LOT of calls.
Steve, you spin me right round baby, right round.
BULLSHIT!!! As soon as I walk into my bomb shelter - no signal, whatsoever.
Steve Jobs opens his mouth... and it's flooding with apple news on engadget. I counted 7 iPhone related posts after one other 10mins ago.
I am also really curious about the statement of "iPhone 4 drops less than one additional call per 100 than the 3GS"... What does this exactly mean? 1% drop rate higher than 3GS....
Let's say 3GS has a 98% drop rate, 4G will be 99%. That is not a big deal, since we all know 98% is approximately with 99%. But what if 3GS is only 0.1% or 0.01%? That means 4G will be 1.1% and 1.01%, which is 10 times or 100 times worse ....
"
If Apple is so sure that they have this under control, why on earth have they canned the field test mode in iOS4 - are they trying to hide something?
@evilguy Wasn't that already gone in 3.0?
Right. 'Facts'. Apple 'facts'.
You know how many dropped calls my BlackBerry has had after 500 calls?
0.
How many would I have had with an iPhone 4 according to Steve with the 3GS conservatively dropping 1 in 100?
10.
Now, I am no genius, but wouldn't making the number of dropped calls larger by 100%, or even 10%, been counter productive to a "sequel" phone?
Yeah dropped calls suck, and this "
Yeah dropped calls suck, and this '
what fucking snipet? Fucking egadget. POS's
So this phone with its superior antenna, is dropping more calls, even if only a tiny amount, than the previous phone, which supposedly has an inferior antenna? And the solution to attenuation is a bumper or a case that completely ruins the design aesthetic that they hyped up so much from the start? What were they thinking? They may have sold 3 million phones in 3 weeks(which is actually less than the # of Android phones sold over the same period of time), but this phone, from a design perspective, is terribly flawed, and they will never admit it. Half-assed fixes from a half-assed company.
What a bunch of BS!
My BB NEVER, EVER drops a call. Neither did my previous 2 phones...on Verizon. In 8 states...
Lame phone you put out, Apple!
I recently bought the iPhone 4 and I heard of all the claims and reports from consumer reports. I am very satisfied with the phone. I do not have any dropped calls nor when I performed the test on purpose have my bars been affected. I also updated to the i0S4.0.1 and the same results. I think a small minority will always have some issue from a lot of other phones. Apple is king of the hill; competition would love to get there. This is the best phone I have ever had.
@mvrawlings
Congratulations. Here's a cookie.
just finished watching the video.
i call it bullshit except giving out free bumpers. and i think they should give it out all the time, not just before sep. 30th.
1) apple only invited the medias that worship them and only make it look good. yeah, this is not important.
2) what's more important is the CR tested some at&t phones, and only iphone 4 meets the problem. why? why does it seem a bit conflict about what steve jobs said this morning? because apple only choose the "evidences" makes them look good.
3) i'm tired of explain this's not the same problem with other phones. apple misleads ppl by using wrong proof.
4) let's say it this way, if a tape can simply fix the problem, how comes a company which has 18 PhD scientists and engineers lets it happen?
5) steve jobs said they didn't educate the customers enough.
cool..
"i want to buy a iphone 4" "sure, give me a second, let me get your file....oh, sorry, you're not qualified. in order to purchase a iphone 4, you need to take and pass the antennas and self-hypnosis education course....."
Statistics, statistics.
Where I live, dropped calls are measured per 10,000, not per 100.
Suppose the 3GS drops twice per 10,000 (=.02 per 100), the iPhone 4 drops 100 calls per 10,000 (= 1 per 100). Yes, you can say that the iPhone 4 drops less than 1 more calls than the 3GS but at the same time it's also correct to say that the 4 is 50 times worse than the 3GS! No wonder they chose to measure per 100 and report it that way...
Then this whole thing with gripping other brands where the iPhone 4 has a problem already by TOUCHING the specific location. Nice cover-up, Steve!
Didn't Joshua say that the iPhone 4 drops *LESS* calls than the 3GS?
Now Apple comes out and officially announces that it is slightly worse?
Apple is acknowledging the signal issue and giving away bumpers now while still not admitting a design flaw.
Will the iPhone 4 review finally be updated to reflect the actual device now?
Seriously, 9/10 is now unjustifiable for the iPhone 4.
You should all watch this video... the iPhone 4 is great regardless of its insane negative press. The video short, on point and puts a lot of things in perspective: http://vimeo.com/13406519
I'm going to point out some simple math here, but before I do, in full disclosure, I have an iPhone 4, and the call drop is horrendous compared to the 3GS. I can drop calls any time where I am by touching that strip. Can't get my 3GS to drop. BUT... I'm still keeping it. Got a bumper and it fixed it. (And yes, I hate the bumper!)
Now onto the math.
Apple claims less than one in a hundred new dropped calls. Less than one percent. But that doesn't really tell us anything and I state is actually quite deceiving! Want me to show you simple math that shows that could very well be a 800% increase in dropped calls??
They say less than one in a hundred. So let's say its 9 new drops out of a thousand (that's 0.9 out of 100) Now lets say the 3GS number is one out of a thousand, which is still damn high considering how many calls are made every day. So it was 1, now it's 9. That's an 800% increase in dropped calls. Yet they can still say the 'delta' is less than one in a hundred.
And that number is also averaged across the entire spectrum of calls. Good areas weigh that number down, meaning if you're in a bad area, I guarantee your drop rate is higher than just that delta.
In other words, the problem is bad but they presented statistics to make it look less troublesome than it is. No Apple, even as a person who writes software for your platform for a living... has almost $70K in stocks in your company... and even as a person who is keeping his iPhone 4... you are distorting the truth.
Don't give us a 'hard' delta with actual numbers! Give us a PERCENTAGE difference between the iPhone 4 and the iPhone 3GS. THAT is the only real number you can give us! Everything else is smoke and mirrors and as a user, developer and a shareholder, you're really starting to piss me off.
AT&T are on record as claiming a average 1.44% dropped call rate, nationally, across all handsets.
This was in May 2010, before the iPhone 4 was released.
So - 3 options:
1) the 3GS performs the same as the average. In this scenario, the 4 drops 70% more calls than the 3GS.
2) the 3GS performs better than average. In this scenario, the 4 drops greater than 70% more calls than the 3GS.
3) the 3GS performs worse than average. In this scenario, the 4 drops fewer than 70% more calls than the 3GS, but is still worse performing. But don't lose sight of he fact that the only way to make the 4 look not so bad, implies both it and the 3GS are poor performers when compared to the whole market.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics have a habit of coming back and biting you in the ass, eh Steve?
iFail ahah
I was one of the lucky ones that got their iPhone a few days early. My first phone call was dropped. Im not so sure I consider myself lucky anymore =(
"I guess that was the
Opps my call dropped.
I guess that was the
Lots of good conversation surrounding this issue on http://whatsnottaken.wordpress.com
Average dropped call rate on any network is 1%. Assuming 3GS is in the same ball park, 1% more than 3GS means 100% increase or double the dropped call rate of 3GS. In reality, 3GS is worse than many other phones in the market. That puts i4 slightly less than 100% but it is a real bad stats that they are trying to sugarcoat.
It's amazing how badly iPhone 4 sucks. It's also amazing how Apple Fanboys will defend it until the end of time. I will freely note first off that I am not a fanboy by any stretch, however I do have the 3GS, which I love. I did buy the iPhone 4, and it was so terrible that I returned it and went back to my current 3GS. It was just that bad. It's hilarious to me what Apple fanboys are saying in forums and blogs all across the web, defending this thing like it's some sacred gem, pretending all its issues don't even exist. Ridiculous. Check out the video I made on YouTube about "An Apple Fanboy's view of Steve Jobs, the Iphone 4, and Life... ". It's at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPcQ-cYg8iA
I'd be interested in knowing if any of the increase (or total) in dropped calls might be influenced by whatever number of users were actively trying to replicate dropped calls by using the death grip. Couple that with the fact that few people have cases at this point and it could be a meaningful data point. I didn't like Steve's press event but there's plenty of truth in what was presented...very un-PC I suppose.
all that said, I've not had a single dropped call on my iphone 4. the 3GS dropped a fair amount.
If a train leaves Boston traveling at 60 miles an hour with 4 iphones making 1 call per minute and a plane leaves Boston one hour later traveling 600 miles an hour with 8 iphones each making a call every 2 minutes, how many calls will be dropped before the plane overtakes the train?
But doesn't this mean that the allegedly improved antenna ads no benefit whatsoever. It might be a little short sighted of me but what was wrong with the tried and tested antenna?
@enantiomer2000 No, the iphone 4 is not inferior to the 3gs; it's a much faster, tougher, thinner, more full-featured phone. i'd need two pages to describe all the ways the iphone 4 is better than the iphone 3gs. The 3gs dropped calls too, but the 4 drops EVER SO SLIGHTLY more. 2% compared to 1% (or whatever) is such a low number anyway, it doesn't really matter.