@Aguiluz. I always suspected Emperor Jobs was jealous of my Force Choking ability. And he has turned to finding weak spots on rival phones to emulate it. I think it's time i gave *him* a death grip
@BrandonHarris No, Apple should stop pointing fingers "See, Bobby Shmoe and Alice Doe wets the bet the bed at 28 too, mom!" and either fix their issues or shut up.
I think that Apple is the one who needs to grow up. Slinging mud is the quickest way to gain negative PR.
The issue pops up on other phones if you hold them a weird way, yes. But the effects are not as bad nor are the antennas external. Therefore, Apple's problem is far worse than these phones'.
So who is going to fix the issues with the other phones? Why arent there people demanding that Nokia, RIM, Samsung etc...fix this issue? Serious question.
How long did it take to lose signal? I have tested on my Nokia N97 mini and it took 15 minutes from full bars to 4 bars. And then it just fluctuated between 3 to 4 bars. But I have to grip it so tight my fingers are hurt. That's not normal.
@Aguiluz My question is... what happens when you hold the iPhone 4 with a bumper in a strong "death-grip" like this? It should still drop quality, right?
The bumper prevents bridging of the antenna, not blocking of signal.
According to physics, microwaves are absorbed by water. This is why your microwave oven works. If you put something dry in the oven, it will not heat up, because there is no water to absorb the energy.
This means that if you cover an antenna with your hand, you will be able to attenuate the signal. ALL PHONES EXPERIENCE THIS.
BUT.... Apple has an additional problem.
The issue with the iPhone is that IN ADDITION to attenuating the signal, you are able to de-tune the antenna. By coupling the two antennas with your finger, you change its radiating properties, and make it lose something like 24dB (99.5%) of its power. So, before you add any actual attenuation from your hand, you're only looking at 0.5% of your power escaping the phone.
I completely hear you but coming from a user who has trouble activating the death grip feature I seriously have issues with people pulling out the pitchforks demanding a recall.
Has anybody tried doing this using his left hand instead of using the right hand like in the video? apple sure has sunk to a new low with their iphone4 PR strategy..
And you know what? I completely agree with you! It all has to do with personal skin galvanic response/conductivity and the normal amount of signal strength a user has.
But just because the problem doesn't manifest for all users, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. And Apple doesn't need to sling mud.
@hexpoll It only works with certain (unlucky) peoples body chemistries, but otherwise spot on. Apple is just muddying the issue, and pretty well might I add.
Apple is making a point here about the antenna issue being blown out of proportion and others like Nokia taking a jab Remember it was Nokia that ran an ad about holding the phone any way you want...
In many ways this antenna issue is but a continuation of the pot shots that Google, Verizon and Motorola started with the Droid does campaign and then Google followed up with during their developer conference
In this case, Apple is simply calling out the fact that all phones are effected by the exact same issue. Nothing wrong with that.
It would be stupid of Apple to sit back and let this guerrilla campaign against them go on.....
How come Verizon needs permission to use the iPhone in their commercials, yet Apple can use other manufacturers phones for marketing purposes? Seems like they could be sued, but I guess they have so much money they don't really give a shit about losing $100m if it means selling 10,000 phones.
Just so we're all on the same page... It isn't okay for Apple to say, "OH THIS AND THIS AND THIS PRODUCT HAVE THE SAME ISSUE WE ARE HAVING TALK ABOUT THEM TOO!" nor are their commercials which poke fun at Microsoft and Vista or PCs in general.
But it IS okay for other companies to come out of the woodwork and make attack ads that mock a problem Apple's products are having...
I think Apple should fix the issue, but I also think they are well within their rights to point out other products that have a similar issue. Especially if those products ACTUALLY have a similar issue.
Ahhhh, you see? Here's the issue with that logic. One is a diversionary tactic meant to spread the blame, and the other is smart marketing.
One is deceitful and misrepresents the problem by pointing out a nearly unrelated problem in other phones, while the other points out a flaw in a competitor's product.
@tmt345 Add to the fact of how childish an attempt this is, as well. This is also another sly and petty attempt from Apple to detract from their own issues (a phone cover, seriously?). The fact they target a "mini" version of a set that's not even among their current series of phones is also quite interesting. Apple got nowhere to run?
@Aguiluz I've owned an iphone 3g and a nexus one. I preferred the iphone and was ready get an iphone 4, but I refuse to give another cent to this company. I can deal with a slightly touchy antenna, but I will not support a company thats run by a frikin child!
Grow up! You made a mistake, stop making excuses and take responsibility!
I'm not saying that Apple doesn't have a problem with the iPhone 4, but part of the problem in the states could be AT&T's map shoddy service (same problems they with the 3G and 3GS launches).
In OUR tests Apple proved to a little bitch when it came to accepting its flawed products. Further tests have also indicated that Apple must indeed GET THE STONES TO ACCEPT IT! Thank You for your time. AcE
Well the point is, Nokia is trying to defend itself on a baseless ground, because I use X6 and E72, and both phones, despite the latter being their most prideful product, seem to share the same problem.
The X6 in particular, sees packet-data drops when the same is done. At least it's not as bad on the E72.
That aside, I don't see what Apple's trying to prove either. You don't justify your mistake by saying that others have done the same too. It's a weak logic for me.
I Totally agree with you, Apple is not doing anything wrong by showing people that other cellphones have the same problem. People who think that Apple is digging themselves a deeper hole by doing so are wrong imo because people will start to see that the iPhone 4 is not the only phone that has this problem. I do think though that people are pushing this way to far because this problem is apparently fixable by adding a simple bumper to the iPhone and/or avoid holding it in the so called "death grip". Also @DaHarder they aren't embarrassing themselves by showing people they aren't the only company with a problem. Apple is just being informative by letting everyone know that they messed up and so have other people and they are trying to fix the know problem.
@jaffreywali: Like you said, everybody seems to forget that these other companies are releasing ads taking jabs at Apple as soon as "Antennagate" broke. Apple owned up and they're taking steps to fix the issue. Showing that competitors phones have the same problems is a fair comparison IMO, especially considering Nokia made claims that you could only their phones anyway you like. Let's wait until September 30th (when they reassess the free bumper initiative) to really pass judgment on the situation.
Or just continue to hate because it's the fun thing to do.
@illmatic If Apple would've left it alone, Nokia and Motorola would still be digging themselves holes by saying false claims such as "you can hold the phone any way you want". Maybe they'll double-check things next time so Apple doesn't have to do their jobs for them.
Apple... you guys really need to drop this tactic. Do you really think an Apple iPhone 4 customer whom is experiencing dropped calls and data loss cares that some other phone by some other manufacturer loses a few bars? Does that make him/her feel any better when he/she shifts their hand while talking and loses the call?
Let me help you out here... No.
You obviously neglected and ignored obvious signs that your external antennae would cause issues. You messed up - accept it and apologize... sincerely for once.
Don't be the kid that replies to his mother when in trouble, "But... Johnny did it too!"
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Only Darth Vader can do that!
@Aguiluz
but but they do it too ! (if you hold it in this extremely awkward way)
@MicrosoftOwns
All apple had to do was leave this alone. Now they're just digging themselves a hole.
@Aguiluz Anything can be force choked as long as vader's doing the forcing and the chocking.
@illmatic
Too bad most people don't know about Engadget and after watching the aforementioned video, will go buy an iPhone and accept the issue.
@forHim247 *Choking
@Aguiluz
This is seriously petty on Apple's part.
@strawe
Quit the finger-pointing, Apple. Own the issue, apologize, offer a solution. DONE. This is more like a 3 year old throwing a tantrum.
@Aguiluz
Of course they choose an obese person with fat hands to hold the phone and you can tell the guy is holding the phone hard cause he's shaking.
We the fuck is wrong with this company?
@Mike10010100
So, should Apple also apologize for the faults of every phone that this occurs on? Wake up people.
I just tried holding my 5-year old Nokia N90 the same way in the picture (open and closed position) and the signal went down two bars every time.
Odd, huh? I've never heard of anyone complaining about it back in 2005.
@shotta
they think they can get away with a defective product because their fanboys are of the most delusional on the planet.
@Aguiluz. I always suspected Emperor Jobs was jealous of my Force Choking ability. And he has turned to finding weak spots on rival phones to emulate it. I think it's time i gave *him* a death grip
@BrandonHarris
No, Apple should stop pointing fingers "See, Bobby Shmoe and Alice Doe wets the bet the bed at 28 too, mom!" and either fix their issues or shut up.
@BrandonHarris
I think that Apple is the one who needs to grow up. Slinging mud is the quickest way to gain negative PR.
The issue pops up on other phones if you hold them a weird way, yes. But the effects are not as bad nor are the antennas external. Therefore, Apple's problem is far worse than these phones'.
@Aguiluz
Do THAT to a baby chicken,,,,,see what happens
Now this is unexpected: I just tried fully gripping my N90 as hard as I can and the signal went from full (6) to just one bar.
@Aguiluz
Apple's gonna get into A BIG BIG Trouble for doing this. Even after all the reports from Nokia and RIM!
@Dafrety
So who is going to fix the issues with the other phones? Why arent there people demanding that Nokia, RIM, Samsung etc...fix this issue? Serious question.
I'll also add that I can still make and receive calls even if I grip my phone to 1 bar. Something the iPhone4 probably can't do!
How long did it take to lose signal? I have tested on my Nokia N97 mini and it took 15 minutes from full bars to 4 bars. And then it just fluctuated between 3 to 4 bars. But I have to grip it so tight my fingers are hurt. That's not normal.
@Aguiluz My question is... what happens when you hold the iPhone 4 with a bumper in a strong "death-grip" like this? It should still drop quality, right?
The bumper prevents bridging of the antenna, not blocking of signal.
Okay, I'm laying down some truth here.
According to physics, microwaves are absorbed by water. This is why your microwave oven works. If you put something dry in the oven, it will not heat up, because there is no water to absorb the energy.
This means that if you cover an antenna with your hand, you will be able to attenuate the signal. ALL PHONES EXPERIENCE THIS.
BUT.... Apple has an additional problem.
The issue with the iPhone is that IN ADDITION to attenuating the signal, you are able to de-tune the antenna. By coupling the two antennas with your finger, you change its radiating properties, and make it lose something like 24dB (99.5%) of its power. So, before you add any actual attenuation from your hand, you're only looking at 0.5% of your power escaping the phone.
@Mike10010100
I completely hear you but coming from a user who has trouble activating the death grip feature I seriously have issues with people pulling out the pitchforks demanding a recall.
Must I post again?? Ughh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US0bd6ZNUP0
Has anybody tried doing this using his left hand instead of using the right hand like in the video? apple sure has sunk to a new low with their iphone4 PR strategy..
@BrandonHarris
And you know what? I completely agree with you! It all has to do with personal skin galvanic response/conductivity and the normal amount of signal strength a user has.
But just because the problem doesn't manifest for all users, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. And Apple doesn't need to sling mud.
@hexpoll It only works with certain (unlucky) peoples body chemistries, but otherwise spot on. Apple is just muddying the issue, and pretty well might I add.
@Aguiluz
Apple need to stop this. . .All Nokia has to do is start quoting dropped call data, which is much lower that 1 per 100, which in my opinion is a lot.
@illmatic
Apple is making a point here about the antenna issue being blown out of proportion and others like Nokia taking a jab Remember it was Nokia that ran an ad about holding the phone any way you want...
In many ways this antenna issue is but a continuation of the pot shots that Google, Verizon and Motorola started with the Droid does campaign and then Google followed up with during their developer conference
In this case, Apple is simply calling out the fact that all phones are effected by the exact same issue. Nothing wrong with that.
It would be stupid of Apple to sit back and let this guerrilla campaign against them go on.....
@MicrosoftOwns Kin FTW!
@Aguiluz
when i try this on my droid x, the bars go from 1 to 3...
...and the camera activates
How come Verizon needs permission to use the iPhone in their commercials, yet Apple can use other manufacturers phones for marketing purposes? Seems like they could be sued, but I guess they have so much money they don't really give a shit about losing $100m if it means selling 10,000 phones.
@Aguiluz
How do we know its not connected to a hotspot at home which they are putting layer after layer of tin foil on?
Apple, YOU DUN GOOF'D!
@masochist Apple pointed out that this happens in areas of low reception.
@Mike10010100
Just so we're all on the same page... It isn't okay for Apple to say, "OH THIS AND THIS AND THIS PRODUCT HAVE THE SAME ISSUE WE ARE HAVING TALK ABOUT THEM TOO!" nor are their commercials which poke fun at Microsoft and Vista or PCs in general.
But it IS okay for other companies to come out of the woodwork and make attack ads that mock a problem Apple's products are having...
I think Apple should fix the issue, but I also think they are well within their rights to point out other products that have a similar issue. Especially if those products ACTUALLY have a similar issue.
@LandMine Hare
Ahhhh, you see? Here's the issue with that logic. One is a diversionary tactic meant to spread the blame, and the other is smart marketing.
One is deceitful and misrepresents the problem by pointing out a nearly unrelated problem in other phones, while the other points out a flaw in a competitor's product.
@tmt345
Add to the fact of how childish an attempt this is, as well. This is also another sly and petty attempt from Apple to detract from their own issues (a phone cover, seriously?). The fact they target a "mini" version of a set that's not even among their current series of phones is also quite interesting. Apple got nowhere to run?
@Aguiluz
I've owned an iphone 3g and a nexus one. I preferred the iphone and was ready get an iphone 4, but I refuse to give another cent to this company. I can deal with a slightly touchy antenna, but I will not support a company thats run by a frikin child!
Grow up! You made a mistake, stop making excuses and take responsibility!
@Aguiluz
Of interest: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&u=http://blogdoiphone.com/2010/07/inedito-teste-de-recepcao-do-iphone-4-com-as-operadoras-brasileiras/
I'm not saying that Apple doesn't have a problem with the iPhone 4, but part of the problem in the states could be AT&T's map shoddy service (same problems they with the 3G and 3GS launches).
@shotta Err, it's competitors took a swipe at it, and tried to profit from the issue. If I was Apple, I'd do exactly the same thing.
In OUR tests Apple proved to a little bitch when it came to accepting its flawed products. Further tests have also indicated that Apple must indeed GET THE STONES TO ACCEPT IT! Thank You for your time. AcE
@statickeith
Well the point is, Nokia is trying to defend itself on a baseless ground, because I use X6 and E72, and both phones, despite the latter being their most prideful product, seem to share the same problem.
The X6 in particular, sees packet-data drops when the same is done. At least it's not as bad on the E72.
That aside, I don't see what Apple's trying to prove either. You don't justify your mistake by saying that others have done the same too. It's a weak logic for me.
@jaffreywali
I Totally agree with you, Apple is not doing anything wrong by showing people that other cellphones have the same problem. People who think that Apple is digging themselves a deeper hole by doing so are wrong imo because people will start to see that the iPhone 4 is not the only phone that has this problem. I do think though that people are pushing this way to far because this problem is apparently fixable by adding a simple bumper to the iPhone and/or avoid holding it in the so called "death grip". Also @DaHarder they aren't embarrassing themselves by showing people they aren't the only company with a problem. Apple is just being informative by letting everyone know that they messed up and so have other people and they are trying to fix the know problem.
@BrandonHarris Because you can't do it to those phones with 1 finger like you can the iphone.
@jaffreywali: Like you said, everybody seems to forget that these other companies are releasing ads taking jabs at Apple as soon as "Antennagate" broke. Apple owned up and they're taking steps to fix the issue. Showing that competitors phones have the same problems is a fair comparison IMO, especially considering Nokia made claims that you could only their phones anyway you like. Let's wait until September 30th (when they reassess the free bumper initiative) to really pass judgment on the situation.
Or just continue to hate because it's the fun thing to do.
@illmatic If Apple would've left it alone, Nokia and Motorola would still be digging themselves holes by saying false claims such as "you can hold the phone any way you want". Maybe they'll double-check things next time so Apple doesn't have to do their jobs for them.
Apple... you guys really need to drop this tactic. Do you really think an Apple iPhone 4 customer whom is experiencing dropped calls and data loss cares that some other phone by some other manufacturer loses a few bars? Does that make him/her feel any better when he/she shifts their hand while talking and loses the call?
Let me help you out here... No.
You obviously neglected and ignored obvious signs that your external antennae would cause issues. You messed up - accept it and apologize... sincerely for once.
Don't be the kid that replies to his mother when in trouble, "But... Johnny did it too!"
That's lame... don't be "That Guy"...
- AdamZ
@illmatic This is NOT FROM APPLE -- I cant believe you actually believe this is from Apple.