It still won't be
widely available until 2012, but Nissan's
Leaf is already leaking out to a few select media outlets. Our comrades over at
Autoblog managed to get behind the wheel of the all-electric whip down in San Jose, and while they didn't find anything that changed the admittedly developing game, what they
did find was a solid, refined EV that's "ready for primetime." They were quick to praise the design, which doesn't scream "oddball" like some of the earlier electric automobiles. As for the ride? That was deemed "suitably smooth," while the interior was found to be "a few degrees better than what you'd find in an economy car of similar size." In fact, the overriding tone of the review was one of unsurprised satisfaction, with critics noting that the "gadgetry is impressive, but no more so than some of the hybrid options available from Nissan's competitors," and in the end, the Leaf doesn't aim to "change the driving experience, just change the method of motivation." Hit the source link for the full skinny.
posted July 27th 2010 4:24PM
Quit it.
So ridiculously ugly, just like every other car Nissan has vomited out in the past few years! But if it puts a dent in Prius sales, then I'm all for it!
@bingster you're gonna get downranked.
Btw, for some reason, I dont like the back of this car. Prolly coz it looks kinda like a butt!
@statickeith I think I remember somewhere that Nissan go the idea that they should get together with Peugeot and let them do their styling with the idea that it must be good because it is French or something. There has been something deeply and fundamentally wrong with french automotive styling for fifty years or more. Crack smoking spider monkeys from Mars levels of wrong.
This has got us such wonderments as the Nissan Cube which is so fascinatingly ugly it actually makes the AMC Pacer look sleek. I personally believe it will become a collectors item for sheer novelty value much like such french classics as the 2cv or perhaps the ami 6.
@bombastinator its actually Renault and not Peugeot. Renault bought a controlling share in Nissan and the CEO of Renault ended up being the CEO of Nissan as well. he thought it would be a good idea to set up competitions between the 3 different branches Japanese, North American, and European branches for the design of certain cars.
thats what happened with the 350Z the California design studio got to design the car and the French branch got to redesign Nissan's VQ motor.
European Economy cars in general look all bubbly and concept carish
Dear Nissan, hire an Italian car body designer.
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/alfa-romeo-2uettottanta-by-pininfarina/#2756796
I know this argument about electric cars being hideous is constantly held but this car is so fugly it makes me cry :'-(
None of the contours on this atrocity are likable and there is not a single viewing angle from which the vehicle would not look like a turd. In many ways it's the Pontiac Aztek of electric cars...
@bingster Commenter Scum
Still waiting for the Tesla Model S.
@Maxipad
It's a good thing these EVs are taking a while to produce, because the American power grid, as a whole, can't support millions of electric vehicles.
@Maxipad
Why wait? Just get an infiniti G sedan. it looks similar to it and starts at 33k. You can use the rest of the money you save on gas. Or if you want something that really looks like it, get a maserati quattroporte. The Model S is a luxury car, not a layman's electric camry. You should at least have some scrilla in your pockets pulling up in a car like that.
This car's got a bubble but!
Hope consumers can afford it after the Volt's rather hi pricetag that was released today.
@MishkaGreen
o hey wats up
@MishkaGreen
All he saw was "...hi..." The rest of the message got lost in his excitement at apparently being acknowledged by another human being.
What about battery life?
I have been riding an electric bicycle for the past year. Initially the battery was great, needing full recharge only once every week. After 5 months, the battery needs a full-charge every half a week. 10 months later it was almost the end of every trip (usually
@darkmax
what battery chemistry does your bike have? Thats a pretty crappy battery.
A Good modern cell should go 1000-2000 charges and still maintain 80% of the battery life.
I know thats a huge change but theres so many differnt chemistries out there its not even funny.
The Volt which uses only 50% of its battery for each charge still should get 35 miles or so even at 160,000 miles if you drain it after every drive
@darkmax Well I doubt the battery in your electric bicycle is advanced as the one in this leaf or the volt. These batteries have a much higher focus on battery longevity.
@darkmax I had the a similar experience with a small electric scooter I was using a couple years ago, after a year or so it would only make it a few miles before needing to be recharged.
@darkmax
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/07/27/nissan-announces-leaf-rollout-plans-8-year-battery-warranty/
Your bike probably doesn't have a battery management system. See batteries wear out faster if you charge them to 100% and then drain them all the way, and continuously do that every time. For this car's battery, they try to keep the charge between 30% (ish) and 80% (ish) so the cars battery will last longer. Further more, your bike probably had cheap cells in it. The nissan leaf's battery pack has cells that are rated for >1000 recharge cycles. So this car's battery will likely last the full 100000 mile warranty, and still hold a pretty damn good charge.
@pple is poo Yes it runs on acid-based batteries. Was there a need to insult?
Does it get the esteemed 327 MPG?
@bravokiloromeo
How can a vehicle that doesn't directly use gasoline have its mileage rated in MPG?
@paul34
Whoops, it was 367. My bad.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/15/nissan-says-its-new-electric-car-the-leaf-gets-367-miles-per-g/
@bravokiloromeo
Well the battery pack holds 16kWh of electricity. Now consider that it uses roughly half of that per charge (because of the BMS). So 8kWh to go 100 miles. Pretty good
A gallon of gasoline has roughly 22kWh of energy in it. That number seems to be disputed, but i'll go with it just for these purposes and because it sounds reasonable to me. SO:
100mi/8 kWh
1gal/ 22kWh
___________
275 mpg
Thats with my random internet figures. I have no idea where they got that 367 from unless they use even less of the battery pack which is unlikely.
I guess I dont see the point in a car with limited range and even more limited refueling capability. For less money, I could buy a sub compact and a very cheap motorcycle or a bicycle, for getting around town for short trips and have the best of both worlds. You're either going to fork over $$ to Exxon or PG&E, but considering PG&E's rates, I'll stick with Exxon.
@navyasw02 Not only will it cost less per 100 miles to charge from PG&E, but it will actually keep your dollars here in the US, paying Americans to work, instead of shipping most of your fuel costs overseas to other OPEC countries.
@navyasw02 Yeah as a person who lives in an OPEC country i can say we(people probably not the government) will be more than happy to an end for the oil disaster
@arash I take it you don't live in the UAE.
Every local has a cozy government job thanks to the oil industry. Working for a living is entirely optional. If you're in Venezuela, then there will be no big change, since Chavez screws just about everyone.
I wonder what is the carbon footprint for a car made in Asia and shipped to the US. When you can get the Chevy Volt made in the USA.
@dontbecreepy Commercial US production is slated to start in 2012 in a new plant in Smyma, Tennessee, and will create 1,300 American jobs.
@dontbecreepy Although assembled in the US, the Chevy Volt is only 65% US by part count. The Nissan Leaf is 68% US by part count. That means if you were to say which one is more American, the Nissan would be the car. Nissan (a foreign company) has invested more in the US the last 10 years than GM (a US company), so even though it's foreign owned, more money makes it to US citizen's hands for every dollar you spend at Nissan than at GM. Nissan also doesn't receive as many tax breaks as GM, so less of your tax dollars gets spent on them too.
@Narutogrey
Using part count to determine whether it's foreign or domestic is just a fraud. The key determination should have been where does the money spent by the consumers on the car end up. A 68% US part count means little if 100% of profit went to Japan.
@dontbecreepy That's an odd question to ask considering that the Leaf is being made in the USA too.
@xsxs No, you're just uneducated. Part content and hence employment is what matters to the middle class. If people buy a car with American content or one that's made in the US, then the people making that car (Americans) will get more work or more will be hired to increase the plants' productivity to increase supply to match the demand.
The vast majority of profit is actually re-invested in the division of the car company. i.e, Nissan America's profits are reinvested into Nissan America. Yes, some "profits" go overseas in the forms of dividends to investors, but you're comparing one MNC to another here. There are many American investors in Chinese, Japanese companies, etc and vice versa. We live in a globalized age, so quit spreading your ignorant tripe.
@xsxs:
Profits go to the shareholders, not "Japan". Since Nissan is a publicly traded company, you and I can be shareholders.
@Dest:
Thank you.
@michaspi Exactly. There are a couple large groups that benefit from a public company. The Owners (shareholders), the employees, and outside recipients of the company's money (i.e. parts vendors).
In terms of owners, GM might have slightly more US shareholders, but the majority is owned by a handful of people. Unless you are in that rich elite, this doesn't benefit you much. Excluding the top shareholders, both companies are pretty equal in practical terms.
In terms of employees, GM has more US employees than Nissan, so that's a win for GM although their US to foreign workforce ratio is decreasing whereas Nissan's US to outside US workforce is increasing. Don't let GM fool you by saying their North American workforce ratio is steady. That's just a way to hide that their Mexican and Canadien workforce is increasing. Still, a win for GM for now.
Outside recipients is where Nissan is benefiting the US more than GM. Nissan's cash outflow to US companies and communities minus tax received from the US government is a lot larger than GM's. So a win for Nissan.
Overall, more cash stays and gets invested in the US when you buy a Nissan Car vs a GM car. GM's Chinese investment is magnitudes more than Nissan's, which is good if you believe in the global economy, but it's hard to argue that buying a Volt benefits the US more than the Leaf.
@Narutogrey:
Thank you very much for you explanation.
@bingster Damn it look good.
that the vast majority of families own 2 cars these days.
Get one of these for the bread winners commute
and the other runs the gas minivan/cuv/suv
Most people drive less than 40 miles a day. If you drive more then 100 a day then this car isnt for you. Just like if you live on a ranch with a 20 mile driveway with large pot holes a Super car isnt the best choice for you
Smug Alert!
@Ladderless Thanks for the warning, but we will try to forgive you for your smugness.
@Lord Vader I just wanted to confirm if this was you:
http://failblog.org/2010/07/23/dark-side-win/
Awesome.
And maybe it won't cost $41,000 like those miserable continual failures at GM. So much for an American Revolution.
This all sounds well and fine...until you need to travel farther that 50% or your battery's charge. So no unexpected trips on your way home for milk or to pick up the kids from soccer practice, unless you want to risk running out of charge. There is no quick way to charge the battery in this car, If it runs out and you are stranded. With the Volt you at least has the option to stop for gas and extend your range should the situation demand.
@pairorat Most people commute well, well under the range of the Leaf according to the research. You can pick up groceries and kids unexpectedly and not have to worry about anything. Now, if you had an unplanned trip across the country, well then you have a point.
@Dest It depends largely on the length of your standard commute as well as weather conditions. Too hot or too cold and your range could drop from ~100 to ~70. Divide that range in half for a round trip, and you total travel distance from home is now 35 miles. figure in unexpected traffic conditions and possible side trips, and the risk of running out rises dramatically. Enough, I'd say, for it to be a stressful vehicle to drive. If the range were closer to a 12 gallon tank of gas at 30mpg, I'd completely agree with you.
I just don't think anyones boss will accept "No I can't make it to that offsite meeting because of my car"
If all the cars become electric, will engadget and autoblog merge?
Quick question:
How much more does a battery pack weigh compared to a full tank of gas?
@akindy
Much, much more (no exact figure here).
But, imagine having a battery and 4 direct motors on each wheel - no engines, no transmissions, no differentials, just pure direct torque at each wheel!
@akindy not sure about a tank of gas, but when I visited the Tesla showroom in NYC, they said a battery pack weighs about 750 lbs, but that the engine is smaller and weighs less than a standard V-6 combustible engine. For overall curb weight comparison, the Tesla Model S is supposed to have a curb weight of 3800 lbs and a Honda Accord V-6 is about 3500 lbs, BMW 535i is 3700 lbs, and an Audi A6 is 3850 lbs.