It took two long years for India to (allegedly)
tap BlackBerry traffic, but Saudi Arabia may not have to wait nearly as long; the
Wall Street Journal reports that RIM has all but agreed to set up a local server in the country. While we've no details yet on what the deal entails, an unnamed Saudi telecom official said negotiations are already in the final stages. Sorry, RIM, but it looks like Saudi Arabia
called your
bluff. We imagine the company will
deny any potential for government snooping in short order... and both Indonesia and the
United Arab Emirates will start planning their own attempts to wrest away control. We'll let you know where this house of cards falls.
Update: Saudi Arabia has reportedly given its three national cellular carriers 48 hours to try out proposed solutions that "meet the regulatory demands" of the country, else the BlackBerry messaging ban will take effect as originally planned.
posted August 7th 2010 8:30PM
A sad day for liberty in a country without any.
RIM had no choice.
@dedparrot
sorry for my language, but news that infringes upon liberty makes me angry.
certainly, alongside foxconn, the dirty side of gadgets.
@Eli Haj
dedparrot was replying to the comment below the first one. Basically, RIM *did* have a choice. Now RIM still has a choice - they can take down the SA server and get the hell out of the country.
I think they should've called the King's bluff, rather than letting the King call their bluff. If SA is as depending on Blackberries as other stories would suggest, the King would've capitulated eventually. And what a sweet moment that would've been.
@paul34 the power of monarchy. i wish our nation was like this so we didn't have to vote, vote. let one or none decide what to do with our lives.
@paul34 Yeah it's sad, when you think all of these companies are advertising about their commitment to users privacy, And when there's money on table, privacy isn't even in dictionary. just like our country who bought nokia siemens networks deep data analyzing systems to sniff on us, thanks to that they don't need RIM's cooperation. they just decrypt whatever data is passing.
@paul34
You guys are forgetting one crucial thing. RIM is a business who'e primary responsibility is to their shareholders and profit margin, just like any other business. Saudi Arabia was smart for calling RIM's bluff because they knew that in the end, the company was not going to risk losing business in that lucrative market by refusing to alleviate and complying with the concerns of the Saudi government. So, in short, this doesn't surprise me one single bit.
@Starfleet Captain But if the act of capitulating to a foreign government causes more business to be lost in other areas of the world, then this is not in the best interest of share holders.
@dedparrot agreed with the anger @ infringements and totally understand the reaction but always find it amusing when we guys use that expression, as if it was the absolute worst put-down imaginable, the expect that our wives or girlfriends are supposed to feel all excited nd enthusiastic about doing the same thing! ;-)
@paul34
"I think they should've called the King's bluff, rather than letting the King call their bluff. If SA is as depending on Blackberries as other stories would suggest"
Stories suggest? where are these stories my friend. I've lived in Saudi my whole life, they do not "depend" on blackberries the King couldn't give a s.hit about it
If anyone here thinks that this shutting down/banning of bb service was cause of finding business secrets or that kinda crap.. than just forget it cause Saudi is not America
BB's didn't exist in Saudi less than 2 years ago, like the iphone its a operator based phone.. in Saudi we don't do contracts and that useless junk, our people buy the phone outright and not loan it. Contracts for iphone 3gs have started this year but thats just one phone and even people just buy it black market
Its no secret rim is dieing, the fact that bb took off in Saudi is major news for them, they can't let this die and bb is useless without its service so what did you think was gonna happen.
the government controls the internet, the tv, pretty much everything that gives you access to info outside of Saudi, just for one reason; To stop porn, sex etc cause its a major sin and the rest of the world is relaxing on such things with everyday that passes this makes it hard for our governments,
The government wouldn't give a s.hit if Rim left, is that stay they just wanna keep it clean,
If you have problems understanding such a simple thing and think that we in Saudi are just here to destroy life than please replay with all the conspiracy theories and unless junk you want, we'll do what we usually do.. just ignore it and move on with life.
@paul34
I dont get it... America has already done this so whats the problem
The ignorance here is quite high do you hypocrites know about the patriot act? Here's some bedtime reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy
What SA et all is doing is nothing compared to your homeland security department.
@paul34
while I mainly agree with your statement, you might want to check the following:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1726418/ec-dumps-blackberrys-us-claims-monitor
and
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67246V20100803
the only difference here is that a court order is needed :
that is if it is not part of the illegal wiretapping (10's of thousands during bush era)
or maybe from CIA, under anti-terrorist laws, which then come under secrecy, as it could harm the US, then no court order.
I do not believe in conspiracy theories, I've no tinfoil hat, but I don't have blinders on my eyes.
@paul34 This is great N. Korea also wants a server in their country the loving Kim Jun Ill requires it.... for security reasons of course..
@D1Only1
Only the idiots and ignorant people believe the government abides by it's own laws and always use court orders.
@broli
Ahh I see, so the infringement of liberty on our soil means we can't point it out to you guys. Classic non-logic there.
@Starfleet Captain
Sorry dude, the business is built on data security. Without it, there is no business. Blackberrys are useless everywhere because random countries will follow suit. Some countries are secure, others not. If your flying in the wrong airspace, opps! , the wrong people have your info.
It a shortsighted strategy that reveals that the higher ups at RIM have no idea that --secure data transmission-- is the core value of the blackberry brand and that caving to any goverment damages the military and corperate value of their devices.
@PhonePhreak
No, RIM won't lose any business by doing so because most people are not that naive -- they know that was gonna happen and they know there is no true absolute privacy.
The United States government already has access to private data held on Blackberry devices in the name of 'terrorism', though means of the PATRIOT Act, Title II: Surveillance procedures
Why shouldn't other governments be allowed access to that data as well?
@broli Oh sure Wikipedia is a really credible source of reference (NOT). Especially when the relevant article is flagged with a comment saying "It is in need of attention from an expert on the subject."
@broli
Big difference, Saudi Arabia can wire tap all they want..problem is they don't have the Technology to tap into RIMS decryption and want full access to RIM to spy at will...
@paul34 I think you are confusing Saudi Arabia with the USA. Last time checked, people were detained for no reason but the looks, library withdrawals and internet traffic [I'm leaving religion and nationality apart for obvious reasons]
There's no such a thing as liberty but the possibility to do certain things that the people in power allow anyone to do as long as such things don't take their power away from them.
Maybe they should put in motion some research on how to retaliate.
This really is a sad day for data freedom. I hope that the young people in Saudi Arabia are adequately upset so that when the old guard dies out, they progress.
@Dr Yusuf AlKindi
Don't be so ignorant...many other countries...The US included...already do this
RIM this is where you should have shown some balls and not capitulate to oppressive governments.
I respected RIM for 5 minutes.... then this. What wimps.
@Apeman96
Money talks...
@Plazmic Flame
It sings and dances too.
Well there's no reason now to own a blackberry over there since blackberry isn't secured anymore
@rocker182 Unless you don't care about the government being able to read your messages.
SO it was OK for RIM to do the same thing for America, but as soon as they do it for KSA it's a blow to freedom?
Xenophobe much?
@gbhil
It depends. Do they require warrants for such access in the US? I doubt that is what the King was asking for. He most likely wanted free and open access for all his jack booted thugs, otherwise known as the King's security forces and police.
RIM should have never capitulated. I'm not expecting RIM to make a political statement, but their business reputation is built on their secure network, and they have compromised that with this move.
@gbhil Well, what kind of civil rights protections exist over there? Does evidence regularly get thrown out by the courts because procedure was not followed in obtaining it, because not enough reasonable doubt was in place to warrant the search, or because statements were forced out of suspects? Do you guys even have an independent judicial system? Didn't think so. So you see there is a legitimate phobia, not against any strangers but of saudis specifically.
So now RIM is treating them the same as all the western countries they're already letting snoop on the data traffic.
good news if US have the right to spy then other government's have the same right too.
TBH if they have already allow western countries access, as is suggested, then they really don't have a leg to stand on.
thats great !!
Are the western media blind to things around ?
RIM gave Saudi the access that it has been giving to USA and others..
Screw ethics. Money, money, money.
Yea, If I was RIM, I wouldn't have given in. I would've just politely told them to go f*&k themselves. But for those same reasons I'm sure that would explain why it's not my company or why I'm handling those negotiations. (hehe) :-)
@EagleyeSmith But you might have a future at Google...
@Mnemonija Google caved in as well.
@Dest
Do you even have any idea what you are talking about? China told Google that it can not serve unfiltered results by simply redirecting traffic for Google.cn to Google.hk, which makes sense, so Google stopped doing that and put a jpg of Google search page on google.cn that takes users to Google.hk when they click anywhere. So now everything is kosher since users type queries on Google.hk. But Google is no longer playing the censoring game. And good luck asking for gmail data.
@Mnemonija Yes, I know what I'm talking about. The results are still being censored now... by the Chinese government. The only difference is that users get a Great Firewall page instead of nothing at all, which means nothing because everyone was already aware of censorship in China. The end result is the same. The Chinese get censored results.
The fact is that Google said they would LEAVE CHINA. They said this multiple times. They didn't. They kept all their staff there, and that whole "they are hacking us!" issue sort of died in the process. Hence, they caved in. Don't get your fanboy panties in a knot.
haha... funny how ignorant or deluded some folks are - thinking the US govt has no such monitoring of their communications.
Of course RIM will play ball, they are a business. Lazaridis is a CEO not unlike any other - he cares foremost about his company maximising revenue. He's not flippin' Che Guevara, so quit expecting some type of revolutionary response. Some people watch way too much TV .....
crap. accidental dbl post. Spot the difference :)
@AstroSeven one is on top and the other is on the bottom
@vicmacs
that's what she said.
Ok quit with all the fake outrage. I mean yes its outrageous but where is the outrage for AT&T piping the entire internet right into the government for surveillance right here in the USA. They are still in business like it never happened just like the rest of the telcos that got off the hook for providing the government with data. Maybe Saudi Arabia just wants to "keep track of terrorists" just like some in our government claim to want to do.
well blackberry totally got RIM'd