Adobe's CEO: 'we've moved on' from Apple's argument, and Flash still rules
By Darren Murph 
posted August 16th 2010 2:13PM
posted August 16th 2010 2:13PM
Something tells us the FTC won't be so quick to follow suit. Oh, and if you're wondering how Adobe could just turn the other cheek here, the company's Anup Murarka just said at the Flash / Android event ongoing in San Francisco that Adobe has "relationships with 19 of the top 20 mobile manufacturers in the world." One is the loneliest number, or so we hear."They've chosen to keep their system closed and we'd rather work with partners who are interested in working with us. We believe in open systems. We believe in the power of the internet and in customers making choices and I think a lot of the controversy was about their decision at that point. They've made their choice. We've made ours and we've moved on."
"we believe in open systems, but we are proprietary crap"
as much as many are talking about HTML5 being the future, i don't see it, anywhere.
flash still has a few good years before the whole HTML5 invasion takes over so it would be great if in the meantime schmeevie boy would get off his high horse and allow iProduct people see what the internet actually looks like.
i like that adobe has moved on. i wish other companies would do the same when schmapple gets its thong all in a knot.
@liquidmonkey1
Maybe you just don't understand what "the future" means. Is that what your problem is? Here's a hint - the future is not right now. The future is at a point in time AFTER right now.
And we know what flash looks like. It's a bunch of ads. And youtube and hulu, both of which have apps for the iPhone.
Apple has moved on too from the days Adobe refused to bother to make its software on par (Mac and Windows versions of Photoshop, Flash, Premiere, etc.) no matter how much Apple begged. Payback is a beyotch.
And we just find out sites have been using Flash cookies to track what our children our doing (hence a privacy lawsuit). 'Flash cookies' -- who knew!?
@bluelobe And this is different from browser cookies?
I love Adobe dearly, and I do not work for them. Seriously. I'm a long time user of their products, and when they acquired Macromedia, I was very worried. I was also a Studio MX user at the time. I can honestly say that Adobe has far exceeded my expectation when it comes to integrating their products in a way that allows me to get work done faster. I currently own CS5 Master Collection. I use nearly every program in it regularly. One thing is for sure. You can't beat the value.
Let's face it. Apple has two mobile devices, only one of which is a phone. For practicality, it's one device since they are the same platform. It just so happens to be the one that everyone is jumping on. I can't believe iPhone/iPad users aren't beating down Apple's door, begging for Flash support. If I owned one, I wouldn't stand for it. Granted, it's not the end-all of the devices by any means... but imagine the possibilities!
Apple has gotten used to developers making special versions of apps and sites for only their phone. Adobe is basically saying, "Look. Why make a special app for the iPhone, when ONLY iPhone users can view/use it, and then make a different version for all of the other devices?"
Don't get me wrong. The iPhone is a fantastic piece of hardware. It just seems to me that it's a fancy store in the form of a phone. Apple is so worried about losing App Store and iTunes Music Store sales due to iOS having Flash, that they're denying so many possibilities. Ok, sure.
What Apple doesn't realize is that the people who are going to use Flash to strictly watch movies and TV from sites like Hulu are the same people that probably don't purchase stuff from the IMS anyway. So what's the beef? They want complete control.
I personally feel that Apple could gain more than they would lose by adding Flash. I thought that Flash would have been on the iPhone several versions ago... and that they'd be showing off all of the things it's hardware can do, which Flash now showcases.
And on another topic, Apple is pretty much horrible at reciprocating support and thanking vendors. While it has nothing to do with the Flash/iOS issue, Adobe did recently rework many of their programs for support in OS X. Premiere Pro and After Effects were Windows only applications just years ago. Now, I know... Apple makes Final Cut, a competing NLE. Which is better, I could argue to the death.. but I think it's preference mostly. However, there's many people that simply didn't use a Mac because programs such as After Effects did not have OS X versions. Now that there are, I'm sure there's people that have dropped their Windows machines and bought expensive Mac Pro systems. You just don't see Apple reaching out to partner with other major players in the industry. They make their hardware and then there's a dog and pony show... and it's like "We have this gadget. It's the best. Who wants to join us?" Just sayin'.
@muzicman82
Uh, no. Nice try though. Apple doesn't want flash on the iPhone because flash sucks. The performance is horrible on mobile devices. Even on high powered Android phones, even in Froyo. It's fucking AWFUL.
See, unlike all the idiot fandroids, Steve Jobs knows mediocrity when he sees it. And while they may be willing to settle for absolute shit performance, Jobs isn't. That's all there is to it. Adobe had plenty of time to come up with a version of flash that didn't suck, they still haven't been able to do it, ergo no flash on the iPhone.
It's really not that hard to understand. Hulu app performance on the iPhone = great. Youtube app performance on the iPhone = great. Flash performance = shit. See the pattern?
@Jack Performance is a sad excuse for not allowing a developer to make something for your device. If the iPhone 4's hardware is the shit like they claim, there won't be any issues. We really don't know about performance since it is not officially on iOS yet. I imagine that if Apple said, "Ok, let's let's try this Flash thing and give it a go", then you've got over 15 million devices to basically do the debugging and testing for you. Sure you can hack iOS to get Flash on it, but that's no sure way to tell anything.
Don't forget there's Flash, and there's Flash Lite. Yes, running desktop Flash and Flex applications is not the intention here. With an available Flash platform, developers can make RIA's to suite mobile devices.
That brings up another point. Why would Apple want to allow Flash RIA's when they can make money by forcing all App Store apps to go through the store?
I have an HTC Touch Pro2. It's not a fast phone by any means. I put Skyfire on it and many Flash applications work just fine. I'm not expecting a whole lot since it wasn't designed for mobile devices or my phone..
@muzicman82
Just because you haven't seen Flash tested on the iPhone doesn't mean Adobe hasn't submitted a working plug-in to Apple for testing and Steve Jobs has concluded that it's a piece of junk. In fact, that's exactly what happened as told by Steve Jobs in a Keynote earlier this year and again in Steve Jobs' "Thoughts on Flash" open letter (which clearly you never read).
Saying that the iPhone is nothing more than a fancy store and that all that Apple wants is complete control is simply coming from a place of ignorance. Apple isn't Microsoft and Apple isn't Google, Apple is Apple and as such operates on a completely different business models than those two: Apple is a hardware company that supports its sales with high quality software and services. --ever wonder why iTMS is run at cost and not at profit?-- Therefore the business decisions involved vary greatly from those of software-only enterprises.
Apple isn't interested in users that want everything for free at the lowest common denominator possible but rather in selling highly valuable mobile products to customers at a reasonable price.
No amount of poweful mobile hardware is ever going to compensate for horrible programming so the same goes for Adobe. And for reasons already explained above Apple will never allow junk on the iPhone. Adobe's inability to deliver good working Flash even on desktop Macs for so many years is further proof that Adobe just doesn't really know what they're doing. However, Apple does and where they are going Flash is the past and HTML5 is the future.
Flash doesn't produce value, Flash is nothing more than a middleware platform that kills innovation and reduces advancement into its lowest common denominator possible. So Apple has no room for that in the iPhone.
And again, saying Apple doesn't "thank vendors" is speaking out of complete ignorance and even the smallest understanding of Apple. Microsoft isn't Apple's partner nor is Apple a software-only company. Apple is first and foremost a hardware platform company and develops very good software suits to give unique value to their hardware. Also, software vendors develop for platform vendors, not the other way around. Thus Apple will never make available any of its software suites for any other OS platforms, why would they actively take away value from their own platform??
@HighestRanked1 Ignorance? I don't think so.
It's all business and numbers. You can't tell me that the iTunes and App Stores aren't there for profit. Yes, there's free apps, but there's also ads everywhere. Even if Apple doesn't make much profit on the 200,000 apps, the fact that there are 200,000 apps is basically free advertising for them. All they have to do is issue an ad that says, "iPhone 4. 225,000 apps." and people will buy it.
If Apple were really concerned about there not being junk on the iPhone, there wouldn't be over 200,000 apps available in the App Store. That's nothing to brag about. There's probably perhaps 1 or 2 that are useful in each category. Move on. Even if we said that 100,000 of those are different games that people might want to play, and that theres programs for this or that, maybe another 1,000. That leaves nearly the other half as just plain junk. You can argue that they reject many applications and remove ones that on there, but they often remove ones that are actually useful, and deny ones that could be. Seriously... 200,000 apps is not a selling point for me.
Apple doesn't sell you the phone and say, "Oh, BTW... there's an App Store and the iTunes Store if you choose to use them".. They're there, and the iPhone is basically just a brick without them. There is no doubt in my mind that they expect you to spend money in those stores. You can't even update an iPod anymore without iTunes.
Claiming that Flash isn't going to be on iOS because it's slow, junk, etc is simply a lame excuse. Like all programming, its up to the developer to determine that, not the platform. Yes, some are better than others. Adobe doesn't even stand to make money on this. Flash is basically open.. You can write for it in any text editor if you choose.
HTML5, while great in all of its promises, is going to end up just like the rest of the web... it'll look great on one browser and break on another... Standards kind of make me sick because there's nothing standard about them. I program for the web. I've watched CSS ride as a "standard"... then CSS2.. and CSS3. There's not much standard about any of them, at least when you put two browsers side by side. It's sad. When I was doing more Flash/ActionScript programming, one thing was for sure... Flash applications looked and performed the same on any browser on any operating system. It's that simple. I know the platform has come a long way since then for that to still be true, but I still have faith.
It's fine. I don't have an iPhone or iPad. I don't want one either, so this really doesn't affect me. You guys can continue to put Apple on this pedestal as if they're the one, the only, and the best gadget maker around. Sounds like their shiny designs and slick advertising really works.
@muzicman82
"Ok, let's let's try this Flash thing and give it a go", then you've got over 15 million devices to basically do the debugging and testing for you."
You are mistaking Google/Android for Apple. Do you really think Apple would allow a 3rd party plugin with known performance issues to be a test case on the iPhone and with it's users? Then you don't know Apple, and most importantly the reasons they've been so successful. With such a loyal following. It's all about the premium experience, not a debugging experiment for gen consumers. Leave that to Google and possibly Microsoft (if they haven't learn from the past yet).
Each year that passes Flash becomes more and more irrelevant on mobile phones. It is not even capable yet on Android, it still drains battery. On PC's as a development platform and video playback it will remain for the time being (even as development for mobile Apps). But on mobile phones having to use flash plugging in a browser like the desktop, which kills battery, kills performance and scrolling? Bye Bye Flash.
@dave95 Oh please. The 15 million iPhones and their users are already a live debugging farm for iOS and countless other applications.... especially hardware.
Let's get one thing clear. I am not mistaking Google/Adobe/Microsoft for Apple by any means.
"With such a loyal following." There. You just said it. The #1 reason they are successful. I'm sorry, but even when Apple hardware flops or software has horrible bugs and problems, Apple fanboys still standup for their beloved. My girlfriend has an iPhone. There's maybe 5 free games, 1 purchased game, and 4 other free applications on there. The iPhone is far from a premium experience if you ask me. It's pretty. I'll give it that. It didn't even multi-task until iOS4. The experience had to be faked with push notifications and other hackery. You have to jailbreak it for features they conveniently left out.
@Jack If performance is an issue, then the built-in mail app on my iPhone4 should be banned. That crap becomes unresponsive at least 5 times a day and I just wait for minutes for it to start working again.
There are plenty of other iPhone apps that crash and suck, yet they are allowed - like some of Apple's own.
Performance... I call bullshit.
@Anatidae Ha! Well played.
@muzicman82
I will tell you that iTunes and the App Store are not for the profit of Apple. Steve Jobs has clearly stated just that time and again in several Keynotes. Apple had the wisdom to engineer an amazing software architecture platform (iOS + iTunes Store) and marry it to an amazing business plan:
1) iTunes and the App Store are first and foremost there to give value to iPhone hardware sales. Customers buy iPhone hardware for the amazing value that its software brings, access to the largest music store on Earth and the largest mobile software store on Earth.
2) iTunes is successful because Apple set up a business model where the music labels and artists can make good money. It saved the music industry from hemorrhaging sales as everyone at the time was simply pirating music off of Napster. It gave consumers a legitimate digital market from which to legally buy digital music.
3) The App Store is successful because Apple set up a business model where developers can make money safely selling high-volume, low-cost apps, without fear of mass piracy and theft of their work. In contrast, the top 10 apps in Android have a 70% to 90% piracy rates. On iOS, barely 10% of iPhones are jail-broken and a much smaller portion use pirated apps.
Apple removes apps that are actually useful huh? right. That there are junky apps is besides the point, as long as the devs abide by the rules. The greatest selling point is that there is no other mobile software platform on Earth with the greatest and highest quality library of the most useful mobile apps. And btw, no, the iPhone is not a brick without iTMS and the App Store. Did you forget that the iPhone is actually… a phone? Did you forget that the iPhone has the best mobile browser in the industry and can use 3G to use it?
Yup, it's up to the developer to create good working software and Adobe has fallen short every single time with the iPhone. What is their lame excuse? Making matters worse, Adobe has a 96% monopoly ownership of all dynamic web content on the Internet and makes millions selling licenses. So of course they are fighting any one who dares not use Flash! They are fighting to retain their monopoly. But a single one company should not own and dictate the direction of the Internet's dynamic web content, much like text and images are not. Dynamic web content should be just as open and HTML5 and WebKit are the path to get there.
Doubt Apple is the best gadget maker around? look who wins the most quality, innovation, customer service and performance awards year after year. And lastly yeah, Apple also does have the best-looking gadgets around!
@muzicman82
Again the #1 reason they're successful is because they provide a premium "experience" for their target. And when I say loyal following I'm not talking about just fanboys. It takes more than fanboys to catapult the iPhone to where it is now.
Still the best music integration on any phone (iPod). When it comes to the fluidness of the UI, iPhone hands down over Android. With iPhones there's no stuttering or lagging when scrolling (you really see the difference in tablets). Even WP7 is going to best Android in the quick fluidness of the UI. Battery is still the best. Display best. Camera / software combo. FaceTime that works (though it's wifi for now it works unlike the Evo with Qik/Paypal). Largest media content with easy syncing of music, Audiobooks, educational content etc. Largest and most robust apps with the largest developer community. Quality build (i.e. no cheap plastic clone here). That's premium that matters to lots of people. The other missing features that's important to 1% gets jailbroken.
True debugging would be Flash that's still not quite ready for prime time (3 + years later).
@muzicman82
Ahahah! No matter how desperately you insist that the iPhone is nothing but a bag of problems in the real world it's quite the contrary as it's one of the highest quality phones and as you admitted, the best looking one too. Since the iPhone enjoys the highest profile on Earth any little thing will cause the media and the iHaters to go into convulsions and hurl a storm of hate. But at any rate, the success of the iPhone has already proven that Flash is not necessary and Apple will keep on wiping the floor with the competition. :-)
@HighestRanked1 It's clear that you're an Apple/iPhone fan. I never said that I wasn't. I've recommended the phone to many people who have switched to AT&T to get it. It's is perhaps the cheapest smartphone you can buy with a new plan. The iPhone is by no means a business-grade phone. It's a social, media, and play phone.
Several things keep me from owning an iPhone. They're not bad things necessarily. I personally like slide out keyboards. I see no point in having a beautiful looking large screen, when you have to use half of it for a stupid on-screen keyboard. You might be able to type extremely fast and accurately on it, but on-screen keyboards with no tactile response will never compare to a human's typing capabilities on a real keyboard. Where you don't have to keep on your finger positioning. I don't want AT&T.. especially since their dataplan change. In a time when more and more data is pushed to us over the web, they are taking the stance that "oh yeah, you'll save money with these new plans... if you don't exceed 2GB." Most people don't, but I surely would. And, why should I have to keep track? My next phone will be 4G. I'm in the Wilmington, DE area, and Sprint 4G is here. I have a U301 already and it is definitely fast. I want a phone that I can tether at my heart's content without an extra fee (I can do this now). Outlook/Exchange syncing (without a bunch of workarounds and plug-ins) is a must. For me, you really can't compare with Sprint's plans. I know Sprint carrying the iPhone is highly unlikely anytime soon, but I'm OK with that.
iTunes did not save the music industry. It's still in a crap state. People that are going to pirate music are going to do so whether it is from Napster or anywhere else. The introduction of iTunes didn't change that. No one said, "I guess I won't pirate this album, I'll go over to iTunes and buy it instead." Around the same time, CD prices dropped dramatically. I remember buying several CDs while I was in college that were under $10. Many of them were $7-$8. For me, I still don't think it's a good value. I like a good physical copy, that I can rip to a lossless format, and retain the actual copy. While I don't have a problem with $0.99 per song or $10 per album for something intangible, I do have a problem with them not being a lossless format, and that Apple charges for quality upgrades. Offer albums for $10 in Apple Lossless, and they'll have a new customer.
Adobe does not own a monopoly on Flash and other RIA on the web. As I've mentioned, you don't need to buy anything to author for Flash. Additionally, many other programs allow you to create Flash content. Many developers create Flash/Flex content with just a text editor. Yes, you have to license Flash Streaming services, but it's hardly expensive for the software itself. Considering it's so widely available, there's good reason then, for Apple to consider it for their phone. Additionally, Flash isn't only about streaming video. There's a lot of times when people with iPhones need to look at a website, but that site uses Flash... and that site doesn't have a mobile version. What happens? It just doesn't work. They see a blank page or something. Apple could clearly make this work to their advantage. Think about it. They would just market "Browse any website, anywhere".
Support for Flash also don't have to be built-in. They could allow such a plug-in and make it optional to install. You know.. just like any other App in the App Store. Trust me, there's worst programs in there.
DEATH TO APPLE!
seriously i want them to take the 20% extra profit(Apple Tax) margin they get from their over priced shitty hardware
I've read the html5 spec and while the new features are very promising, they still rely on the different user agents implementation of those features. Flash and more so AIR have the edge.
Seriously, why is this even a discussion, why can't I, as an iPhone owner have the CHOICE to download flash if I so wish to run it?
It's my phone, why not just warn me it could reduce performance etc etc, I'll make my decision.
If apple are sooo behind the notion of open standards, why arent they behind the idea of choice and freedom. Why cant I develop using flash, why do I have to do it apples way.
It's not about whether flash is still useful or good, it's about the fact that people and the web still uses it, it hasn't fully lost all function and I want to decide if my phone has it, not apple.
@abrosis
Because if you had the "choice" to run flash, it would drain your battery in 1/3 the time, and guess who YOU would blame for that?
That's right, you would blame Apple for not making a better battery, or some other stupid reasoning. Why in the hell should Apple put up with that? It's not their fault flash sucks, yet if flash were allowed and all the news sites reviewed it guess what? They would all say the battery life sucks.
Why is that something Apple wants, again? Apple is not interested in mediocrity. They're perfectly happy to let Android have all the mediocrity it wants. Apple will continue to be satisfied with the best battery life of any smartphone on the market, and more importantly, being able to claim the best battery life and back it up with real world results.
Being able to say the iPhone 4 is fast, without people bitching that flash slows it down. Things like that.
@abrosis
You own two things:
- the phone hardware
- a license to use the software in the phone
What you do NOT own:
- the software in the phone
As a licensee and not an owner, you don't make the kind of decisions you're so bitterly and innocently complaining about. Besides open standards does not equal "choice of freedom" as you put it. At any rate, why are you bitching about open standards and then demanding the most closed, proprietary and monopolistic plug-in on Earth?
You should be thankful to Apple for giving you the freedom of not having to put up with all the insecurity, battery killing, performance killing, and lowest common denominator innovation-killing of Flash. Let the other platforms hold themselves back.
I just laugh at people that try to force political ideology in matters that are clearly business decisions. lol
@HighestRanked1
1. know I don't own the license
2. I know open standards != freedom
What I am saying is that, if they bitch about how flash is closed and theyre all for open standards, why are they so willing to limit choice for the users. It's kinda like Hitler saying don't kill cute puppies- the ideologies don't seem to match up in my mind.
And so what if the plugin isn't open- the whole point is about choice. And @jack, I know flash would drain the battery- but thats my choice. Im not an idiot, I would understand this thank you very much. But I also understand many would, hence why I think at least put a warning to users as a comprise- "this plugin may cause your iPhone to become unresponsive and will have a significant effect on battery performance- download, cancel"...User has a choice, user therefore knows the consequences.
And lets face it, there are thousands of crap apps out there that apple happily shovels on their app store which happily crash or work like crap/drain battery. Are apple happy to sell them, yer sure. Because they're making money.
Apple walls can be seen to be a way to protect their devices, sure thats great. But theyre also there to protect their pockets. I love the way I can't even download mp3's from the internet....will the big scary mp3 virus kill my phone now, but it would make iTunes redundant.
Apple became successful mostly because of one man Steve Jobs, looks like it is going to go down because of the same man. I believe Apple has reached the peak of it's popularity you know whats happens next once you've reached your peak.
@dmax
Haha. You believe Apple has reached the peak of its popularity because they won't allow flash on the iPhone?
Well, you're in for a surprise.
@Jack That's alright, i like surprises. And i don't mind being wrong from time to time. I admire Apple actually, and am worried they are making a lot of mistakes lately. Never meant it was because of Adobe.
Flash still rules, and crApple still sucks ass.
@anotherworld
Flash rules at sucking, eating battery life, CPU and memory. It isn't really good at anything else.
HTML5 is a fine evolved version of HTML.
As for a multimedia development platform, it lacks many, many, many features that Flash (and Silverlight, a closer replacement for Flash) has.
Also, HTML is a spec that moves at a snail's pace. How long have we been dealing with this crap of HTML5 vs. Flash? And is HTML5 supported across the majority of browsers yet? Is Flash?
TODAY the fact is that as a production manager at a design agency, we use Flash because it is installed everywhere, it works now, and we can get paid by the client on our deliverable. We can't use HTML5. It lacks both the features, speed and install base.
In addition, we have also started developing iPhone/iPad apps. Mainly because HTML5 fails our needs and to build something of quality you are now using Apple's development environment filled with rules and rejection. But in the end, even on the iPhone we still abandoned HTML5 for something more capable for rich-media.
HTML5 is great. It advances HTML4 which is a decade old. HTML5 won't be complete until 2012!!! Two more years. By then we might be on Flash v12, filled with even more useful features. Do you think content developers are going to wait around for 10 more years for HTML6 to deliver?
For everyone who hates Flash - please go make something better. Port it to all the platforms Flash supports, for free, and develop a robust development environment, and I'll pay the $400 or so for it. After, of course, you get over a 95% install base. Just don't go telling me that HTML5 is that answer.
HTML5 =/= Flash. They will both be utilized for the foreseeable future. Each a tool for a set of tasks (even if some cross over one another).
oh com'an apple can't u just stop that?
I'm still voting for HTML5. Just not on Steve Job's behalf.
im in two minds about this argument and can see both sides to a certain extent. there is a ton of bullshit however regarding the whole flash being the champion of openness and apple being the enemy. apple backed the open standard html5 over flash and things like gcd, web kit and now facetime being open source makes this argument more emotional than rational. in one respect apple was right to criticise adobe about the flash player for mobile, as the flash player on desktops had become a hog and malware magnet, mobiles have even less hardware resources than desktops.
also this is about flash player not flash, as all adobe needs to do is enable compile to html5 and flash will still be the go to package for multimedia and web apps. plus with html5 still in its infancy adobe can add to the spec and bring some of its expertise in. plus i get the feeling by lighting a fire under its ass, apple has made adobe try harder to prove them wrong, so consumers will win in all this mess.
it's taken how long to get a decent version of flash on mobiles, 10.1 has just landed so apple did have a point, but now it would be nice as adobe has stepped up if apple allowed it in the app store, but the downside of this would be lots of devs who have made money selling flash like games and creative apps, would potentially lose a revenue stream, good for everyone else though as the are some stunning web sites and games coded using flash.
You are all a bunch of whiny nerds who have nothing better to do than pontificate in an egotistical foolish manner.
I'm sure if Apple ever started to support Flash, the fanbois would magically forget all their gripes about Flash. I mean who can forget things like:
1 Button Mouse - "who needs two buttons? I mean it's not like you ever use more than one finger throughout the day"
Orginal iphone with no 3G or SDK - "who needs 3G anyway, and we're happy with the apps that Apple provides us".
Then when that changed it was "OMG we have the 3Gs and we can make our own APPZ yo! you all suck!"
No copy and paste or multitasking - "Who needs those things on a phone anyway. It's not like i have ever needed them". Afterwards, "lolol we have multitasking and copy and paste and you don't".
Once again, this isn't about Flash's quality.
It's about a phone's capability. Removing capability because it doesn't jive with the feng shui of your phone is a definite hit to that phones ability to help their users get stuff done in the real world.
" We believe in open systems."
Heh. I wait with bated breath for Adobe's support of gnash, then...
It rules my Mac's processor, that is not a lie.
Well, guys, I've just been trying Flash 10.1 on an HTC Desire and, sorry but Steve was right. It is not the right tool for Mobile web.
Sure, if you recode and optimise for web like the stuff at m.flash.com, it is tolerable if you are on wifi (or presumably so called 4G) but on anything else it is so slow and clunky it really is not worthwhile.