@lopata Adobe ought to just drop ALL development for Apple altogether.
Lets see how Apple fairs without Photoshop, Acrobat or Illustrator. Sorry, but Adobe software is what helped Make Apple as popular among artists and media creators as it has. Steve should get is iHead out of his iAss and remember who helped get him where he is.
When Apple took their stance it was *somewhat* defensible seeing that nobody really had Flash on their mobile platform anyway (exception being SkyFire). Now, with 2.2, WP7 offering up Adobe in a future release, more and more big players are joining the Flash cause.
I hope other platforms pound this issue. As everyone else offers Flash Apple becomes the odd man out. It becomes a real market differentiator in the smartphone marketplace.
@lopata Man I know I will get ranked into oblivion faster than a bag of cheetos in a weight-watchers convention. But.... what is up with Google? They make a deal with Verizon regarding wireless net-(not)-neutrality. And they could single handedly rid the internet off of this virus that is flash... but they won't only because it gives them a leg-up on Apple. I was a big Google fan. Not anymore. There is a modicum of hope though... at least one of the founders, Sergey Brin, still has some soul left. He wasn't happy with the Verizon deal. I hope he does the right thing. "Do no evil".. .my ass. You guys are rich beyond any measure... stop being greedy. Well... at least stop being a hypocrite and admit you are not better than anyone else.
@JojoMojo WTF is so great about flash? Why should every browser support this proprietary plugin? It served a purpose in the past. Time to move to the future now.
Well done indeed. AIR for Android / Blackberry / (eventually every platform besides iPhone) is the next phase. I've been writing apps under their prerelease program, and it really does everything that it promises. Write once, deploy everywhere natively, with awesome performance. It's a shame, really. Apple could be in on this by striking two sentences from their developer agreement.
@lopata Yes. Well done Adobe. The world should follow your lead and move on from Apple. They would certainly not be missed. Apple is running on a gimmick and quite possible the most underhanded company ever. They put out junk that capitalizez on their identity while other companies make far better equipment and are far more customer focused. You are far better off developing for those companies than apple.
@Darkroom Yes... and Adobe is like the ugly fat chick who can't land a boyfriend. She has to lower her standards and get all kinds of virus (pun intended). Now she is mad at the universe and has turned into a raging femi-nazi and spews out these *passive-aggressive* BS about not caring.
@huskie fluff So is this the kind of cogent argument that you guys come up with that is supposed to convince people of your point? I asked a simple question... why the fuck should we have to install a third party plugin in my browser? Why shouldn't the browser natively support these features. I haven't heard a convincing argument yet. Your intellectual sagacity /s boggles the mind.
LOL! I love how the Android Army is all about "free and open," yet when Apple finally takes a stand against Adobe's proprietary Flash-based Web in favor of "free and open" HTML5, Apple is the bad guy.
Though I do hate that Adobe Acrobat crashes more computers than pretty much anything else.. and ugly flash sites, but what can you do? They've done a good job w/ mobile
You can just change your regurgitation to: "Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says"
Not sure how many people who post on these boards ever read the business sections. I am guessing not a lot, simply because they live in a world so removed from reality. Consider the following:
1. When earnings season comes around, Adobe, Google and Motorola keep shut. Why? Because Apple invariably blows them away with revenue growth and profitability. You'll not hear a peep about how well Android of Flash is doing. None. Why? because people would laugh in the face of Apple's earnings compared to the rest...
2. As soon as earnings season is past you'll hear tons of how great Android and Adobe and the others are doing. How come if these platforms are doing so well, their companies are doing to poorly compared to Apple? A paradox you might say. So when will these guys actually outperform Apple is Apple is always losing momentum compared to Google, Adobe and Motorola etc?
3. At the time Android launched, Google was worth more than Apple as a company. However, since then Apple is worth over $70B more than Google. In fact Google + Dell + Adobe + Motorola + Lenovo would still be worth less than Apple as a company! Amazing by true.
4. How given how much more Apple is worth than Google, you'd say - wait a minute, Apple stock is overvalued compared to Google. Not so fast! Despite the huge gap Apple has opened up v. Google, Apple STILL has a lower PE ratio. In other words, Google is still over valued compared to Apple!
5. Now why would companies like Adobe that claim to be on 90% of web sites and Google that claims to have 90% of search (or whatever they claim) be worth so much less than Apple? The reason is simple. Apple's business model brings them revenue. Google and Adobe are competing essentially with free products and they have to spend more and more on maintaining their free products to compete with Apple. But the favorable PE ratio for Apple says that even vendors like Motorola who are getting their OS work done for free by Google can't compete with Apple just on the hardware side due to efficiencies in Apple's production system.
What I am sensing is that people on this board are by and large simple people. People who don't know much beyond the headlines. For them I present my simple bullet point facts. The summary is that Apple is doing better v the competition that they have ever done in the past. The post earnings season FUD wants you to believe their competition is catching up, but they are not. Whether it is revenue or profit or introducing new products. Apple is way ahead of the competition. The most important comparison you can make when comparing who is kicking whose butt is to refer to the quarter earnings.
The smart money is on Apple. The idiots money is on Adobe and ...
its actually not hypocritical to want to have options hence an openness to the android platform as opposed to being locked out of having the ability to support anything from open or closed systems.. being open means you support all platforms regardless of how open or closed they are you tool!
@HotFuzz Actually, no, 'android army' wants both. It's not like we are somehow losing the ability to run html-5 content to run flash, we get BOTH. And trust me, both run a hell of a lot faster and more efficient on android. If you take Steve's actions at face level then yes there is merit to his claim, but unfortunately its not quite as clear cut as that!
Yay! Because stock prices are the true value of a company. Not to mention that Quality of Product = Stock Price.
Look at the actual revenue of Apple, then compare it to Microsoft. Apple is ahead in stock prices, but that doesn't mean anything. Microsoft is FAR ahead of Apple in actual revenue.
Google peaked a long time ago due to some stock momentum, but there revenue wasn't changing at the same rate. The recession hit and the stock prices went to its more natural value.
Google has an open platform as well, meaning they aren't making as much money as Apple is off Android. Thus revenue isn't going to be as high as Apple.
Stock value has nothing to do with revenue, otherwise Walmart will have much higher market cap than Microsoft. So instead of being rude and talk about something you obviously have no idea about, you probably should spend some time doing some more reading.
Uhh, that was my point. The numbers that ACTUALLY matter are what they are actually making. Stock prices are almost completely arbitrary and have very little backing to them. Revenue however actually shows (moreso) what they are actually selling, rather than how much they are hyping up their stock prices.
Apple does a really good job at hyping stock prices, Google did a little bit of a worse job because people were scared of putting out a phone OS to complete against an already big giant. However, VERY few stock holders actually know anything about the company to the extent to knowing what the true value is, everyone else follows stock trends which are worthless when it comes down to it.
So thank you for proving my point while trying to combat it.
I didn't say that stock prices were related to revenue, I said that revenue holds more true value than Stock prices do.
@HotFuzz except for the fact that the android browser supports more html5 features than ios AND supports flash, too. Everyone who makes this argument seems to forget that.
>>>>Agreed, just wish Adobe would drop the open systems speech. Their products are some of the most closed out of any company out there.
They are not as closed as Apple though. Adobe has a number of open formats, open source along with the closed source. On the other hand, you cannot get a bloody USB extension cable from apple that works with any product other than Apple's.
"Lets see how Apple fairs without Photoshop, Acrobat or Illustrator. Sorry, but Adobe software is what helped Make Apple..."
Only severe ignorants believe that fairy tale when in fact it's the other way around. For many years Apple was the first and only GUI based platform on Earth serving a variety of markets and Adobe chanced to ride Apple's costtails into making their fortune. Therefore Apple in fact made Adobe and furthermore Apple doesn't owe Adobe a living.
If Adobe magically chose to discontinue their creativity software suites for OS X they would simply be tucking a grenade in their own pants: more than 50% of their creativity suits sold are for Macs so they would be losing hundreds of millions of dollars per year AND ceding ground for the competition to come in and take over.
Good luck with that and all the idiots that support that idea.
>>>>I agree, drop all development on Mac and iPhone or any Apple devices. Let's see what the Adobe's shareholder thinks. LOL.
Apple platforms represent a very minuscule percentage of the market now a days. Back in the 80's, companies like Adobe and my own made exclusive software for Apple and in a way forced professionals to buy Apple computers. But now none of these system selling apps are exclusive to Apple hardware. With Apple ignoring most of their professional market and going after the casual market, a lot of these people are already finding their platforms unreliable for their work. Apple's brand value was earned because of companies like Adobe. If Adobe chooses to stop making software for Apple platforms, it may not hurt Apple too much, but it would still not hurt Adobe as much as it does Apple. In fact till 15 years back my own company developed professional software for Apple platforms exclusively and till 5 years back, most of our sales were derived from Mac OS versions of our products. Now one of our biggest customers have completely eliminated Mac's and deployed Windows.
Stock price are NOT arbitrary, at least not to a company with 230+ billion market cap. No one gives a damn about revenue because what good does it do if you dont make a dime. Stock price is based on Earning and Growth. Microsoft has earning but no growth, that is why Apple surpassed Microsoft on Market Cap. At 25-30% growth Apple stock is actually CHEAP!!! Again, go do some more reading.
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well done
@lopata
yeah but if they really believe in open systems we should see ARM compatible flash 10.1 available for a free download
@lopata
Agreed, just wish Adobe would drop the open systems speech. Their products are some of the most closed out of any company out there.
@HellFlyer Erm, it comes with Froyo.
@lopata Can't break Adobe's stride.
@lopata
that what she said .
@lopata
Very Classy Adobe. Can't join em'? Beat em'
@RhymeMaster
Or should i have said 'flashy'? oh well...
@lopata Adobe ought to just drop ALL development for Apple altogether.
Lets see how Apple fairs without Photoshop, Acrobat or Illustrator. Sorry, but Adobe software is what helped Make Apple as popular among artists and media creators as it has. Steve should get is iHead out of his iAss and remember who helped get him where he is.
@Worm in the Apple
I agree, drop all development on Mac and iPhone or any Apple devices.
Let's see what the Adobe's shareholder thinks. LOL
@lopata
Happy about this.
When Apple took their stance it was *somewhat* defensible seeing that nobody really had Flash on their mobile platform anyway (exception being SkyFire). Now, with 2.2, WP7 offering up Adobe in a future release, more and more big players are joining the Flash cause.
I hope other platforms pound this issue. As everyone else offers Flash Apple becomes the odd man out. It becomes a real market differentiator in the smartphone marketplace.
@angelusp Pretty much everything you said there has been refuted by today's San Francisco summit. Pay attention, much?
@lopata Man I know I will get ranked into oblivion faster than a bag of cheetos in a weight-watchers convention. But.... what is up with Google? They make a deal with Verizon regarding wireless net-(not)-neutrality. And they could single handedly rid the internet off of this virus that is flash... but they won't only because it gives them a leg-up on Apple. I was a big Google fan. Not anymore. There is a modicum of hope though... at least one of the founders, Sergey Brin, still has some soul left. He wasn't happy with the Verizon deal. I hope he does the right thing. "Do no evil".. .my ass. You guys are rich beyond any measure... stop being greedy. Well... at least stop being a hypocrite and admit you are not better than anyone else.
@HellFlyer the droid is getting it isnt it. thats what, arm cortex a8?
there you go issue solved.
@JojoMojo WTF is so great about flash? Why should every browser support this proprietary plugin? It served a purpose in the past. Time to move to the future now.
@lopata
Well done indeed. AIR for Android / Blackberry / (eventually every platform besides iPhone) is the next phase. I've been writing apps under their prerelease program, and it really does everything that it promises. Write once, deploy everywhere natively, with awesome performance. It's a shame, really. Apple could be in on this by striking two sentences from their developer agreement.
@JojoMojo your just an apple fanboy, nuff said.
@lopata Yes. Well done Adobe. The world should follow your lead and move on from Apple. They would certainly not be missed. Apple is running on a gimmick and quite possible the most underhanded company ever. They put out junk that capitalizez on their identity while other companies make far better equipment and are far more customer focused. You are far better off developing for those companies than apple.
@Darkroom Yes... and Adobe is like the ugly fat chick who can't land a boyfriend. She has to lower her standards and get all kinds of virus (pun intended). Now she is mad at the universe and has turned into a raging femi-nazi and spews out these *passive-aggressive* BS about not caring.
@huskie fluff So is this the kind of cogent argument that you guys come up with that is supposed to convince people of your point? I asked a simple question... why the fuck should we have to install a third party plugin in my browser? Why shouldn't the browser natively support these features. I haven't heard a convincing argument yet. Your intellectual sagacity /s boggles the mind.
LOL! I love how the Android Army is all about "free and open," yet when Apple finally takes a stand against Adobe's proprietary Flash-based Web in favor of "free and open" HTML5, Apple is the bad guy.
The hypocrisy here is hilarious.
@Worm in the Apple Apple made Adobe you fool. They decided to abandon Apple when apple was down. Keep believing the hype.
Flash works awesome on my Evo w/ 2.2.
Though I do hate that Adobe Acrobat crashes more computers than pretty much anything else.. and ugly flash sites, but what can you do? They've done a good job w/ mobile
@angelusp
You can just change your regurgitation to:
"Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says Apple says"
Yes, whatever they say is the truth. Not
GO ADOBE ! :)
@Darkroom
Not sure how many people who post on these boards ever read the business sections. I am guessing not a lot, simply because they live in a world so removed from reality. Consider the following:
1. When earnings season comes around, Adobe, Google and Motorola keep shut. Why? Because Apple invariably blows them away with revenue growth and profitability. You'll not hear a peep about how well Android of Flash is doing. None. Why? because people would laugh in the face of Apple's earnings compared to the rest...
2. As soon as earnings season is past you'll hear tons of how great Android and Adobe and the others are doing. How come if these platforms are doing so well, their companies are doing to poorly compared to Apple? A paradox you might say. So when will these guys actually outperform Apple is Apple is always losing momentum compared to Google, Adobe and Motorola etc?
3. At the time Android launched, Google was worth more than Apple as a company. However, since then Apple is worth over $70B more than Google. In fact Google + Dell + Adobe + Motorola + Lenovo would still be worth less than Apple as a company! Amazing by true.
4. How given how much more Apple is worth than Google, you'd say - wait a minute, Apple stock is overvalued compared to Google. Not so fast! Despite the huge gap Apple has opened up v. Google, Apple STILL has a lower PE ratio. In other words, Google is still over valued compared to Apple!
5. Now why would companies like Adobe that claim to be on 90% of web sites and Google that claims to have 90% of search (or whatever they claim) be worth so much less than Apple? The reason is simple. Apple's business model brings them revenue. Google and Adobe are competing essentially with free products and they have to spend more and more on maintaining their free products to compete with Apple. But the favorable PE ratio for Apple says that even vendors like Motorola who are getting their OS work done for free by Google can't compete with Apple just on the hardware side due to efficiencies in Apple's production system.
What I am sensing is that people on this board are by and large simple people. People who don't know much beyond the headlines. For them I present my simple bullet point facts. The summary is that Apple is doing better v the competition that they have ever done in the past. The post earnings season FUD wants you to believe their competition is catching up, but they are not. Whether it is revenue or profit or introducing new products. Apple is way ahead of the competition. The most important comparison you can make when comparing who is kicking whose butt is to refer to the quarter earnings.
The smart money is on Apple. The idiots money is on Adobe and ...
@HotFuzz
its actually not hypocritical to want to have options hence an openness to the android platform as opposed to being locked out of having the ability to support anything from open or closed systems.. being open means you support all platforms regardless of how open or closed they are you tool!
@Darkroom
Sounds like you're the BITTER EX
boyfriend
OR
girlfriend
You take your pick. To the rest of the Apple Haters...Apple won this round. Apple stuck to their guns and Adobe wasn't apple to force them to do shit.
Try again next time HATERS
@HotFuzz Actually, no, 'android army' wants both. It's not like we are somehow losing the ability to run html-5 content to run flash, we get BOTH. And trust me, both run a hell of a lot faster and more efficient on android. If you take Steve's actions at face level then yes there is merit to his claim, but unfortunately its not quite as clear cut as that!
@jaffreywali
Yay! Because stock prices are the true value of a company. Not to mention that Quality of Product = Stock Price.
Look at the actual revenue of Apple, then compare it to Microsoft. Apple is ahead in stock prices, but that doesn't mean anything. Microsoft is FAR ahead of Apple in actual revenue.
Google peaked a long time ago due to some stock momentum, but there revenue wasn't changing at the same rate. The recession hit and the stock prices went to its more natural value.
Google has an open platform as well, meaning they aren't making as much money as Apple is off Android. Thus revenue isn't going to be as high as Apple.
Now please, get off your stock prices and STFU.
@jaffreywali Clearly you haven't been reading the news lately then. lol.
@DalerusOrn Really? How so?
@lopata hey, thats my last name!
@HellFlyer
I would add: If they believe in open systems they would port their creative suite to Linux already.
@HellFlyer You will.
@corylulu
You obviously have no idea how stock market works
Stock value has nothing to do with revenue, otherwise Walmart will have much higher market cap than Microsoft. So instead of being rude and talk about something you obviously have no idea about, you probably should spend some time doing some more reading.
@WhatDoIKnow
Uhh, that was my point.
The numbers that ACTUALLY matter are what they are actually making.
Stock prices are almost completely arbitrary and have very little backing to them. Revenue however actually shows (moreso) what they are actually selling, rather than how much they are hyping up their stock prices.
Apple does a really good job at hyping stock prices, Google did a little bit of a worse job because people were scared of putting out a phone OS to complete against an already big giant. However, VERY few stock holders actually know anything about the company to the extent to knowing what the true value is, everyone else follows stock trends which are worthless when it comes down to it.
So thank you for proving my point while trying to combat it.
I didn't say that stock prices were related to revenue, I said that revenue holds more true value than Stock prices do.
@WhatDoIKnow
Yeah, he was being sarcastic there buddy
@angelusp Really??? Where do I get my pirated copy of CS5?
@HotFuzz except for the fact that the android browser supports more html5 features than ios AND supports flash, too. Everyone who makes this argument seems to forget that.
@DalerusOrn :
>>>>Agreed, just wish Adobe would drop the open systems speech. Their products are some of the most closed out of any company out there.
They are not as closed as Apple though. Adobe has a number of open formats, open source along with the closed source. On the other hand, you cannot get a bloody USB extension cable from apple that works with any product other than Apple's.
@Ben64
Mac's make up 13% of the pc marketsharw but account for 51% of all Adobe Creative Suite sales.....
So stop your fan boy dribbling and realize that Adobe NEEDS Apple.
And for all the talk about "open" when is Adobe going to OpenSource Flash? Oh that's right they aren't...ever.
@HotFuzz
Despite what Jobs tells you HTML5 just can't do what Flash can
Apple are like the floppy. They have seen their best days and it's time to move on.
@DarkroomSo, Apple is Christie Masters from the A-group in Romy and Michele's High School Reunion? Sounds right.
@Worm in the Apple
"Lets see how Apple fairs without Photoshop, Acrobat or Illustrator. Sorry, but Adobe software is what helped Make Apple..."
Only severe ignorants believe that fairy tale when in fact it's the other way around. For many years Apple was the first and only GUI based platform on Earth serving a variety of markets and Adobe chanced to ride Apple's costtails into making their fortune. Therefore Apple in fact made Adobe and furthermore Apple doesn't owe Adobe a living.
If Adobe magically chose to discontinue their creativity software suites for OS X they would simply be tucking a grenade in their own pants: more than 50% of their creativity suits sold are for Macs so they would be losing hundreds of millions of dollars per year AND ceding ground for the competition to come in and take over.
Good luck with that and all the idiots that support that idea.
@HotFuzz and why can't you have both? Oh wait you can....well any platforms that aren't Apple anyways.
I must have missed the part when nobody other than Apple was supporting HTML5
@lopata
Dear Flash,
Nice spin, but Apple dumped YOU. You're just now realizing it and moving on.
.
@Ben64 :
>>>>I agree, drop all development on Mac and iPhone or any Apple devices.
Let's see what the Adobe's shareholder thinks. LOL.
Apple platforms represent a very minuscule percentage of the market now a days. Back in the 80's, companies like Adobe and my own made exclusive software for Apple and in a way forced professionals to buy Apple computers. But now none of these system selling apps are exclusive to Apple hardware. With Apple ignoring most of their professional market and going after the casual market, a lot of these people are already finding their platforms unreliable for their work. Apple's brand value was earned because of companies like Adobe. If Adobe chooses to stop making software for Apple platforms, it may not hurt Apple too much, but it would still not hurt Adobe as much as it does Apple. In fact till 15 years back my own company developed professional software for Apple platforms exclusively and till 5 years back, most of our sales were derived from Mac OS versions of our products. Now one of our biggest customers have completely eliminated Mac's and deployed Windows.
@corylulu
Stock price are NOT arbitrary, at least not to a company with 230+ billion market cap. No one gives a damn about revenue because what good does it do if you dont make a dime. Stock price is based on Earning and Growth. Microsoft has earning but no growth, that is why Apple surpassed Microsoft on Market Cap. At 25-30% growth Apple stock is actually CHEAP!!! Again, go do some more reading.