Microsoft building a Zune factory
By Nilay Patel 
posted May 14th 2007 7:23PM
posted May 14th 2007 7:23PM
The fact that you all voted the Zune "Worst Gadget of the Year" in the recent Engadget Awards doesn't seem to be causing any hand-wringing in Redmond, as Microsoft confirmed today that they're building a dedicated Zune factory in China with an unnamed partner to crank out the oft-rumored next-gen Zune. It looks like Toshiba's not going to be involved this time around, as Zune marketing director Jason Reindorp has been quoted as saying that the rush to get the original Zune to market "forced us to take a look around at what was on the shelf...and get it out there," while this time they're interested in "the flexibility and control we have in creating a device from scratch." Ouch. Sorry, Tosh. Reindorp mentioned that the new manufacturing partner is someone MS is "very familiar with," and the new plant is located in the same city as the Flextronics plant that builds the Xbox 360 for Bill and Co., although nothing's been confirmed. For what it's worth, Reindorp also said that building a dedicated plant isn't going to bring "changes for the sake of changes" to the Zune (which is pretty funny given how many promo Zunes keep popping up) but here's hoping that it brings changes for the sake of actually making the thing better.[Thanks, Mike]
What waste of money on MS part. I mean they weren't producing enough... This is my fav Zune review-> http://www.funnyordie.com/v1/view_video.php?viewkey=eee1462c82c6964087ff
I love the Zune, but that clip is damn hilarious!
I really want a Zune. I have a 5th gen iPod video black, and after I played with a Zune at Best Buy, I want to dump my POS iPod and get the Zune. It's so much cooler looking (especially the brown with the green glow) and a better user interface; more color. But I'm going to wait till the new Zunes come out. And America needs jobs over here, not the Chinese! Yea you have to pay more, but come on, MS has the money.
I think you meant partner instead of parter
I love my Zune.
I honestly do not know why people rated it the worst gadget of the year.
Oh wait I do...they are all Macintosh fanboys. Its funny how brand loyalty can diversely effect somebody's opinion on a product. Honestly, and truely its not a bad MP3 player.
Dude, the Zune came out way after the iPod. And when it did, it had 30% more volume, the same resolution screen, worse battery life, and shitty DRM. Yeah. Real awesome.
And when are they going to release a software update to allow basic podcast support?
I love my Zune too! And everyone who sees it wants one, but they are apparently too cheap to buy them. So much better than the iPod and video iPod.
if ms is willing to build for landfills, go ahead.
zune failed because of buggy & limited software + lousy toshiba style hardware.
when i bought zune, my old win2kpro system cannot be used for it & my xp notebook pc recognized, but zune software did not; i tried on 3 other xp pcs, but none worked. now, it is used as a very expensive radio & soon to be sold at the evilbay
if ms wants to change the market, ms needs to improve a lot on zune software & open the device to let users use at least as an usb storage
I love my Zune too and I have 5 Ipods in myhouse. I have to say the Zune works the best I like to have some feel when i push a button :)
The Zune was voted the worst by the people because it is an inferior audio player compared to the iPod, Gigabeat S, and Zen Vision:M and because it was way overhyped and didn't come close to living up to it.
Maybe if they actually build their own player this time instead of taking the Gigabeat S and ruining it; they might do better.
"The fact that you all voted the Zune "Worst Gadget of the Year" in the recent Engadget Awards doesn't seem to be causing any hand-wringing in Redmond..."
Hmm, the last time I remembered, not all of us were picked Zune as the worst gadget of the year. I'm quite sure that Zune wasn't rated worst to a full 100%. But it's not a wonder why Zune was so negatively ranked on Engadget. The media out there (including Engadget) love to post Zune and Microsoft as the bad guys, while iPod and the Apple as the good guys. If people were open-minded, and actually tried the Zune without any bias and judge the device as itself, you'll find the Zune really isn't that bad. It's pretty nice actually. It's far from perfect, and with a little tweaks, maybe it could actually be better than the ipod. But I would definitely not say it's the worst gadget of the year. It's quite a good device. This is just the start. It will take time for Microsoft to get used to the PMP type of devices for the Zune to be sucessful. Rome wasn't built in a day.
I agree with the previous comment. I really like the Zune. Bottom line: FM Radio, Larger Screen, Better music output, better user interface. Zune marketplace needs a LOT of work, it kinda stinks, and I'm not even talking about the wi-fi 'cause it's worthless. But overall it does the job perfectly when it comes to playing music and movies. Love my Zune, use it everyday for 6 months now.
First of all: The Zune is larger, but will not break as easily as the iPod, and scratch resistant. Second, the battery is much better than the iPod, about an hour and a half more in music playback, and about 20 mins longer with videos. And about DRM, I'd like to see your iPod with subscription music; Oh and when I buy something on Xbox Live and I don't use all the points, I can buy Songs with the remainder, it's not all stuck in one store. And Guess what? There are podcasting things for the Zune. Larger Screen. And between limited WiFi and no WiFi, I choose limited WiFi. Oh, and what station is the radio on your iPod? Oh wait... no radio... Damn. looks like we've got a crappy product here. How could I ever be so stupid as to buy one?
Oh, and the only reason the Zune is larger is because of the WiFi and Radio.
And, Microsoft never said "We are releasing an iPod-Killer" it was simply stated by people with high hopes for the device.
Sure, the Zune might not be the "worst gadget" (solar powered flashlight probably takes the prize), but given the price and the hype for a gadget whose performance is "meh" compared to other offerings, it really is the "worst gadget".
I'll be getting the new Zune whenever it comes out (can't justify buying one now that I know a new one is coming soon).
I have a 5th gen iPod and it gets the job done, but i HATE the scroll wheel! I thought it was cool at first but now it just pisses me off when i select a song then accidentally push it up or down one when i move my thumb to the middle button.
I am so sick of listening to Engadget bitch on the Zune!!!
No its not prefect, but frankly is it that bad of a product?
Yes, the Wi-fi sucks! We got it! But it does incorporate an FM Tuner, nice interface, and large display into a fairly sexy PMP.
Yeah, the Zune Software did have issues at launch. Thanks for reminding me again. How about reminding us about how some of the iTunes upgrades have messed up libraries and made songs disappear?
It would be one thing if MS had said this was going to be a Ipod-killer. But they never did. The Zune was exactly what everyone expected, a fair decent PMP that captured a minor nugget of market share.
After seeing the zune in action, I would def have to say that it owns iPod xcore. I agree totally geoff, mac loyalty is getting in the way on this one.
calebs_man writes:
"After seeing the zune in action, I would def have to say that it owns iPod xcore. I agree totally geoff, mac loyalty is getting in the way on this one."
Heh. Dude... do you realize that MORE PC users own iPods than Mac users? Given that iPods own over 70% of the market, the figures don't add up with what you're saying. I've tried the Zune, and the interface sucks for me. The scrolling top menu is irritating because I don't know what all the options are without scrolling through them. On the iPod, all the options are right there on the the screen. Instead of "clicking" a button to see more, I just swivel my thumb. I only "click" (exert effort) when I choose one. The Zune's design is simply "different". I think its cool to buy something for being "different", competition is good. Just don't fool yourself about what you're doing.
Haha i hate the ipod. i have a zune becuase well i didnt like the ipod. i belive itunes is the worst software out there. even the zune had better belive it or not.
i concurr*
*spelled incorrectly
wtf r u talking about?
I guess they are planning on doing some turd polishing.
I have some insider news:
"To meet the demand for current and future Zune manufacturing, Microsoft is looking to rent a small chicken coup to meet production needs."
Now how many of those people who voted for zune as worst product had never seen or touched a zune in person?
"Now how many of those people who voted for zune as worst product had never seen or touched a zune in person?"
The same number of people who hate Vista and have actually used it. So in other words, zero. Unfortunate but true.
The Zune device is very cool, and beats the iPod in my opinion. But, the main problem is that the Zune Marketplace software is remarkably sh*tty! Seriously, it is painful to use if you access your music wirelessly on a networked storage device on your home network. It makes you appreciate how easy and intuitive iTunes is to use.
what is with all this zune hate? I think engadget is the one who got overhyped and disappointed at the zune... sure the wifi sucks and the software *used* to be buggy, but it is a great device, and certainly better than an ipod.
IMO,
ipod = great software and store, crappy device.
zune = bad software and limited marketplace, great device.
now I had two options, buy an ipod an be stuck with a bad device but stable software w/ podcast support and great selection of movies/tv shows or...
buy a zune and wait for the software to be less buggy and the marketplace to get more content.
clearly I made the right choice.
huh? You just stated the ONLY thing that separates the Zune from all the other devices (wifi) sucks.
Again, why are you defending the Zune?
I look forward to ANY competition in this market because it's good for consumers. Innovative features get added and prices go down. What's not to like?
The only thing I can figure is there are iDiots out there who really do become affectionate about outsourcing corporations and become threatened at the slightest bit of competition (even though they loudly decry the offending hardware has any merits whatsoever). I'm sorry, but ... getting a hard on for a freaking corporation? Grow up.
In terms of the zune- it needs to improve and expand it's wi-fi capabilities, it needs to get essential elements like podcasts right, it needs to improve it's form factor some and it needs to be sold at a significantly lower price. It's UI is actually much better than the iPod's- clearer, more colorful and quicker navigating. (Let the anguished howls begin).
Now why does the zune need to do all of this? Because it's trying to break into a market rightly dominated at the moment (and for the past several years) by a mature, polished product.
The Zune was an over-marketed device that didn't live up to the hype, don't take my word on it (a self-professed apple zealot), cleary Mr & Mrs Joe Public felt the same way.
Dragod; assessing a music player based on the feature set is like assessing a piece of music based on the number of instruments involved.
"Oh, and the only reason the Zune is larger is because of the WiFi and Radio."
False. Wifi and radio chips are miniscule in size these days. The iPod is smaller because Apple does its own design and has gone through multiple generations trying to make the device smaller.
This should be great for the future Zune. Instead of just a bad interface, users can also look forward to the Zune RRoD. The MS track record for hardware building is not exactly stellar, but hey, lets focus on how you get treated when your product breaks down, because, it will break down...
ipod's days are numbered. if only because people will get tired of the damn thing. everyone has an ipod. thats good for itunes. but in today's day and age, people want to personalize everything. if microsoft could make a sleeker zune with open wifi capability, i can see it seriously eroding ipod market share.
now if microsoft was really serious about this, they would make it open to third party apps. but thats too intelligent even for microsoft.
People want to personalize everything? What planet are you living on? Must be the one where the iPod does not dominate the portable player market and the Motorola RAZR (and it's seemingly endless but almost identical variants) does not dominate the mobile phone market. :)
The Zune Marketplace just hit the 3 million mark. Thats a lot, a million songs were added in just 6 months. Thats one argument out of the way.
Clearly, the david Zune is going strength against the goliath ipod.
Wow, that doesn't reflect well on Microsoft. "We wanted to establish the Zune brand name as quickly as possible, so we just threw any old crap we could find on the market." With a cavalier attitude like that, it's no wonder the Zune has had no success in capturing the iPod's market share.
JR
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zune#Criticism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod#Criticisms
There are other manufacturers out there. Other manufacturers that don't seem to think the RIAA/MPAA rules the world - or your entertainment choices. But I suppose it's par for the course to compare two mediocre RIAA-approved restrictive devices spewing out lossy tunes from the megacorps, which is why we always get the constant "Zune versus iPod" comments.
But there's a whole world out there.
Who are these Microfanboys?
Is this a new craze sweeping fanboys everywhere?
Guys, pound for pound, the iPod kills every other MP3 player on the planet. That's why it's number one. Apple knows what the fuck their doing.
Micro$oft's plan; continue to throw shareholders money right out the window. This is definitely going to sting the M$ Entertainment Division again.
When will these dopes learn?
Perfect! You are a perfect example of the kind of fool that Torrey (the poster right before you) is talking about.
You obviously know nothing about the DAP market (or its history) at all. All you know is your man-love for Steve knows no boundaries.
Apple has brand dominance, true enough. They managed to beat out all the small guys when the mp3 player biz was taking off. But anyone that knows the history (or even some of the history) of the DAP industry knows that the iPod HAS never been and IS not the best "pound for pound mp3 player on the planet."
Neither is the Zune for that matter. But based on features alone... Zune is one step ahead. So given that the Zune is slightly heavier... i'd say they are about equal.
Anyways, carry on with your ignorance, Apple zealot!
Wrong, the reason the iPod is dominate right now, is because of the interface and the icon it carries...it's so simple a monkey with Down Syndrome can use it.
Windows has 90% market share, and how did they get that? They were one of the first to make an OS easy enough that common morons could use a computer. With you defending the iPod so with so much bias, that must mean...hmmmm....
Yeah, guy, the Zune may suck, but at least it doesn't break every other week like the iPod.
Really, I don't know why you guys have this incessant need to rip on the Zune in every post made about it. I haven't met anyone who hasn't liked my Zune, and if the hardware itself wasn't enough to sell them on, the colors were. You make think the brown color is ugly, but that's you. I personally don't like the white iPod and how scratched and smudged it gets, but I don't sit there complaining about it.
Competition is good, so why don't you leave the fighting, the bickering, and the competition to the companies that produce these products.
"Yeah, guy, the Zune may suck, but at least it doesn't break every other week like the iPod. "
Uh, neither does the iPod. I have a 3rd gen and 5.5 gen and neither has had any problems. A few scratches but no hardware malfunctions. I used the 3rd gen pretty heavily and same goes with the newer one.
because it's a good player...
the zune has a nice screen, looks good, has a nice feel, and has cool features, and it has the potential w/ the wifi in it.
Dragod wrote:
>> The Zune is larger, but will not break as
>> easily as the iPod,
Really? So, you've conducted extensive testing, or are you making a blind assumption? I'm going to go with u making an ass and such.
Dragod wrote:
>> and scratch resistant.
I never complained about iPod scratches. Sorry.
Dragod wrote:
>> Second, the battery is much better than the
>> iPod, about an hour and a half more in music
>> playback, and about 20 mins longer with videos.
Let's see. Are you lying? Let's find out!!!
iPod 30GB
* Music playback time:
Up to 14 hours when fully charged
* Video playback time: Up to 3.5 hours
when fully charged
---
iPod 80GB
* Music playback time:
Up to 20 hours when fully charged
* Video playback time: Up to 6.5 hours
when fully charged
---
http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html
Zune 30 GB
* Music, up to 14 hours (wireless off),
up to 13 hours (wireless on);
* Video up to 4 hours
---
http://www.zune.net/en-us/meetzune/techspecs/player.htm
Wow. Maybe you can't read. Your music measurements are complete fabrications, although for the comparable model iPod, your video playback is about right (20-30 min more on the Zune), as long as the Zune user doesn't use the wireless or radio (which take more power). Hey, I have the bigger iPod model, so I guess for people like me, your comments don't even resemble reality at all.
Dragod wrote:
>> And about DRM, I'd like to see your iPod with
>> subscription music;
I wouldn't. Of course, I don't have cable either. I just watch free tv, listen to free podcasts, and download some cable-based TV shows occassionally and rent DVDs with Netflix. Believe it or not, there are a number of people who couldn't care less about a music subscription service. Hm... pay $10 every single month, even though I pay nothing now... with the exception of an album here or there? When I stop paying, I lose all my music and have nothing for all that billing? Meh. NO THANKS. Of course, most folks are using FairUse4WM anyway.
Dragod wrote:
>> Oh and when I buy something on Xbox Live
>> and I don't use all the points, I can buy
>> Songs with the remainder, it's not all
>> stuck in one store.
LOL!!! Oh my GOD! You actually did it! You made the fact that Microsoft keeps your money in float... a FEATURE!!! You DO realize that iTunes only charges you for what you BOUGHT right? A $9.99 album only charges you $9.99? A 99 cent song only costs 99 cents? You're money isn't "locked up" in anything! Wow. Some fast footwork there, but its pretty lame still.
Dragod wrote:
>> And Guess what? There are podcasting things
>> for the Zune.
Podcasting "things". That's... um... so cool. I'm drooling here.
Dragod wrote:
>> Larger Screen.
I'll give you that one. As far as larger screens, I want an iPhone though, not a pitstop. Both the iPhone and my iPod have lots of 7" screen accessories for them though. You can even get one with a DVD player built in, where your iPod fits snug in the back. Mm. Much better.
Dragod wrote:
>> And between limited WiFi and no WiFi,
>> I choose limited WiFi.
Don't be ridiculous. "Limited WiFi" isn't a feature, dude. You can "share" certain songs and pictures with other Zune users for 3 plays or 3 days? Yikes. Infrared on the Palm was a LOT more useful, and even it didn't change the world. Again, mutha-frickin iPhone next month. iPod owners don't even lose any of their investment. Browsing the net. That's what WiFi is for.
Dragod wrote:
>> Oh, and what station is the radio on
>> your iPod? Oh wait... no radio...
>> Damn. looks like we've got a crappy
>> product here.
>> How could I ever be so stupid as to buy one?
You do realize don't you? --Some people don't CARE about radios in their PMPs, that's why Apple sells it as a $50 accessory. Uh, oh! Perish the thought, $50...! Stop the presses, they've broken the bank! And, I get a remote control for easy station surfing? Sweet.
http://www.apple.com/ipod/accessories.html
Dragod wrote:
>> Oh, and the only reason the Zune is larger
>> is because of the WiFi and Radio.
Crippled WiFi and a radio that most people don't care about... that's the rationale for a bulkier device? Sorry, Charlie, its still not a slam dunk excuse. You know what would make Zune's built-in radio much more innovative? If it had a built-in FM transmitter too... and allowed people to "share" music by "transmitting" and having other Zune users "tune in" with their built-in radio. Wouldn't that be cool? Or, maybe if Zune could record radio programs, or even "radio-Tivo" them. It can't though. Other non-iPod PMPs can though.
Wait... iPod can at least be used to do Voice Memos. Zune can't do that? No??????? WTF!
What did you say? Microsoft doesn't let me use Zune as a hard drive?
Whoa... this isn't looking good.
Well, at least Zune should be able to connect to XBox wirelessly. NO??? Crap, not going to happen in the future without an extra purchase, is it?
Well... well, maybe I can buy videos in the Zune marketplace like TV shows and play it on my Zune, like with iTunes? No????
Well, at least I can play PlaysForSure movies from Amazon, 'cause its Microsoft, right? No?
Jesus.
Dragod wrote:
>> And, Microsoft never said "We are
>> releasing an iPod-Killer" it was simply
>> stated by people with high hopes for the device.
Suck it up. You're an early adopter of something you think may someday be something much greater than it is now. And, stop pretending that Microsoft wasn't expecting something much more warmly received. This is a polished turd. Case closed.
Dragod. It's ok. Other people bought one too.
Damn Steve, way to earn that $1!
I didn't read your whole post cuz it got lame after a while... but it seems for the most part your arguments are "SOME people don't care about this" and "SOME people don't care about that"
But the bottom line is, you are actually in the MINORITY when it comes to people who, for example, "don't care" about having an FM tuner. For example, if there was a current iPod, and an iPod with an FM tuner for a few dollars more... the majority of people would probably buy the latter... arguing otherwise would be retarded.
And as far as the iPod breaking goes... I don't think anyone needs to do "extensive testing" on their own... it's a known fact that they have historically been unreliable. I personally have gone through 2 ipods to date (i know a few people who are on their 2nd or 3rd as well). I am currently on my third (a nano) which hasn't broken... yet. Does that qualify as extensive testing? lol
Look Steve, there is room for the ipod and the Zune. Don't get so worked up over it. SO there are better products that the iPod, there always has been! So the Zune is currently better, and sounds like it is going to get even better real soon. So what? Apple still has brand dominance in this market... Apple will sell another 100 million iPods before its all said and done... they will just have to do it with less than 70% market share.
>> "But the bottom line is, you are actually in the MINORITY when it comes to people who, for example, "don't care" about having an FM tuner. For example, if there was a current iPod, and an iPod with an FM tuner for a few dollars more... the majority of people would probably buy the latter..."
LOL. IF, IF, IF. Careful, Argentina, you're going to IF me to death. You have inescapable "probably" logic. :-)
Anyway, reread my words. I have nothing against integrated radios. They're just not hugely popular amongst Apple's customers... so, just because the Zune has one, and its a separate accessory for iPod owners... well, I think it makes sense. Moreover, instead of buying a Zune, if I wanted a player with a radio, I'd get one that let me record from the radio as well. They're out there, and that would be a much more worthwhile feature to switch from the iPod over (as iPods can't do that without feeding the headphones into the microphone). Moreover, Zune can't even record memos, which is an even more popular feature for people.
Don't cry now, Argentina.
Nice reply to Dragod, that was awesome. I saw his comment and I was going to reply to him, but I saw yours and that pretty much covered it. One thing though for Dragod: Calling the Zune's size an advantage for durability doesn't make any sense. If the Zune were is slick as the ipod, you'd like it more, don't kid yourself.
The Zune is a great little thing, it just needs better software and codec support. I own a Zen Vision M and a new 5th gen iPod, but the Zune is the only one to not have any scratches on the screen. The hardware, especially the large and very tough screen, are the best out of any high end dap I've played with. And I don't know what you mean about it buggy, my zen crashes all the time and my iPod had to be replaced a week after getting it, but my "little" brown Zune has yet to falter. It beats the zen and iPod in load times, both start up, picture gallery loading, video tracking and only loses to the zen in track skipping. If I wasn't such a gadget whore I'd sell my iPod and just stuck with my zune (I want my zen still for its extensive codec library and excellent features, but frankly wish I'd waited for the Vision W instead). Overall the Zune is the best for those who aren't bothered so much about features and just want a player that can stand upto everyday life.
Oh and "Clever boy" don't bring the iPhone in to this debate. The iPhone is much more featureful than the either the iPod or Zune, of course it also costs a hell of a lot more and, lest we forget, is entirely unproven. And its 7" screen? Correct me if I'm wrong but that is neither 4:3 or 16:9 so you do lose some of that nice big screen if you want to play standard ratio videos. And lets see how well that nice big touch screen stands up to a few months of constant use as both a DAP/PMP and phone, let alone all its other features. Sure the iPhone looks like a tempting device but surely we can all agree its a bit too gimicky and unusual to be either a decent PMP or phone. Either way lets all just forget the zune and ipod and agree the Zen Vision M/W is the best choice.
I got meh zune 2 months ago and haven't looked back. I work for a major electronics retailer and I can say that I see 4x as many ipods come back as zunes. I understand that there are a gazillion times more ipods out there than zunes but I find my player to be rock solid. I also really like the subscription based service that zune music offers. For $15 a month I can dl about anything I want and experience new bands. I laugh my ass of at peeps that say things like "The Zune's a pile of crap, who cares!" and have never touched/used one. They are fueled by pure MS hatorade.
when apple releases the a cellphone-less version of the iphone and calls it the 6th gen ipod the zune will NEVER be able to compete...it hasn't been able to compete in the past with the 5th gen and it won't be able to compete with the 6th gen in the future. Apple is ahead of the curve...you all know I'm right.
Even more screen to scratch until it's useless =)
Rod Munch wrote:
"Either way lets all just forget the zune and ipod and agree the Zen Vision M/W is the best choice."
Way more sound argument than anything about the Zune.
I mean, just look at the Gigbeat S:
http://reviews.cnet.com/Toshiba_Gigabeat_MES30VW_30GB_white/4505-6499_7-31660763.html
Aside from battery life, the features are just KILLER. Automatically compatible with Windows Media player recorded content, etc.
Zune is not that bad. I actually like them. I, myself, own an ipod but I convinced my girlfriend to get a Zune (so I can see how it is) and we both like it, hehe. It's a good gadget.
Ok so because you personnaly haven't had your ipod break on you you're an expert on them breaking? please. I worked at best buy for about a year and saw more ipods returned cause they were broken than any other device we sold. Hell, even our display ipod broke for no reason. And did you actually say the ipod doesn't scratch easily? I mean seriously, come on. You take it out of the box and it scratches. My zune didn't get scratched for about 2 months until I put it in my pocket with my keys in it. Oh and go ahead and wait for the iphone, we'll see how many movies(and in what quality) you store on 4 gigs. 1? maybe? ooo or if you pay like $700(with which you can buy almost 3 zunes) you can get the 8GB version and store 2(DISCLAIMER: movies must be in ipod format). So you go ahead and wait for the iphone to watch your movie on and I'll keep my 4 movies and tons of music on my zune.
P.S. In all those returned ipods I never saw a zune break.
wow first time I read engadget and it will also be my last. bias pos they are.
This isn't true. Microsoft is NOT building a new factory for Zune, they're using an existing factory. So says Cesar (a MS employee) at ZuneInsider.com. Check your sources, Engadget.
Frank, iPod is dominate (in sales, not quality or reliability) only because of, like anonymous said, the icon they carry. Other than that, they're nothing. I know there are better PMPs than BOTH the iPod and Zune, like the Archos players.
You are just another ignorant fanboy among a sea of ignorance.
You can argue this and that, and how many sales Apple has, but when it comes down to features, reliability, and ease of use, it's the Zune all the way. I have had 3 different iPods in the past 4 years, all of them built terribly. Not only do the face-plates scratch easily, but after about 200-300 charges, the battery might lose it's charge capacity, or not charge at all (happened on 2 of the 3 iPods). Finally, on my 3rd iPod, the touch wheel just got desensitized. Why? I have no idea. The touch sensitive wheel is worthless! My friend went through 5 black 5.5G iPods in one week, all with the same problem. The iPod failed to recognize his PC, or even the fact that it was charging.
Now, since I have had my Zune, I have not had a SINGLE similar problem, or any problems at all! The Zune is so much more reliable, especially when you count how many times I've dropped this thing, and still, not a scratch (well, maybe 2 on the back, but nothing major).
About your comment with the radio tuner and WiFi receiver being minuscule in size... My ass, those are the sole reasons why the Zune is thicker and heavier.
Stop sucking on Apple's **** and realize that their products suck. Their PCs are alright, but really, they don't have the know how to build a good product. They would be better off leaving that job to someone else.
TO ENGADGET:
Here's an idea, how about posting a number/code using a deterministic algorithm generated using the IP address of the person making the post? (well perhaps don't use the last digits of IP) Or how about posting the physical location determined by the IP? I really want to see some sites taking action about these paid commenter's.
C'MON ENGADGET, TAKE THE LEAD!!
Wow... it's too much "effort" to push a button? Please, in a lot of ways the scrollwheel takes much more effort since you have to actually move your finger around in a circle. When scrolling through a big list how is holding a button down more effort than trying to move your finger around in a circle as fast as you can? Also, let's compare menu items. The ipod has like 40 on each screen(before anyone attacks me for saying that; no, I do not literally mean 40). So while you're scrolling through all your menu items to get down to "Now playing" so you can change the volume, I'll just press the back button.
I purchased a Zune because I like going against the grain.
Everybody (not literally) owns an iPod.
I personally don't like to listen MP3's all the time.
The FM radio is the main feature that sold me on the Zune (that and the way album art is displayed)
I also own an iPod (my car radio features iPod integration).
Upon my 2nd day of owning my iPod, the PC would give me the message that my iPod was corrupted and that I had to wipe the device clean and resync everything.
To add 3 new songs (just an exanple) I would have to wipe the whole device and resync my whole library to add 3 freaking songs.
With my Zune all I do is plug it in to my PC and it auto syncs everything that I have recently added. Simple as 1-2-3.
nice
Microsoft has a tendency to more or less screw up their first or second attempt at entering the market, but they also have a tendency (and the resources) to listen to criticism and eventually create a project that is extremely good. Although I agree that the current generation Zune is not really competitive with the iPod or even the Zen Vision, I wouldn't write off the next generation Zune quite yet.