After a small but vocal amount of
Netflix users got the world thinking that it was
pulling a Comcast and
putting caps on computer-based
Watch Instantly users, the outfit's Chief Product Officer Neil Hunt has come forward to clear the air. He makes clear that Netflix's
aspiration is to "deliver to everyone the best bitrate that their broadband connection can support," also noting that congestion "could affect some users, but not others, at some times, but not always." He also notes that different titles and encodes for different playback device types "may come from different CDNs or different servers at a particular CDN, so they may have different paths and different bottlenecks." We'd encourage you to hit the read link for the full explanation, but we're already seeing
enraged Roku users bark back by his dodging of the so-called out-of-sync audio issue that's evidently still present. We'll go ahead and warn you, Netflix -- you can't please 'em all.
posted Mar 23rd 2009 3:53PM
It really sounds like Netflix needs to get their act together in regards to standardizing their streaming hardware. The end.
netflix? why bother with that garbage. Only idiots pay for movies or music nowadays. Just use sites like rapidshare or megaupload or even torrents. There are so many blogs and forums with updated movies being hosted on megaupload that you can find just about anything on there. Paying for digital media = fail
@Seightan just to make sure I understand you, your sound advice for all of us is to just steal the content, and that we're idiots for paying for content? I just want to make sure I fully understand your sound advice. While I'm at it, can you please explain why you feel your entitled to free content? I'll be the first to admit that current distribution models are beyond broken, but I'm not about to steal all of my movies.
@Seightan
Can you stream from a torrent or upload site to watch videos instantly? I don't think you can. Anyways, $10 a month isn't really a lot of cash. I cancelled my cable and just have the NetFlix $10 membership. As someone who doesn't watch gobs of TV and prefers to be able to watch shows I like on-demand, Netflix is a great deal.
Yes, actually there are about a dozen sites that are clones of stage6 where people constantly upload movies and they stream fast. Also piracy is not stealing, it's piracy and it rocks. Screw paying for movies, they make enough money anyways.
@Seightan
BTW Yes Piracy is stealing better go and check your definitions.
I like to don an eye patch while watching netflix streaming movies just to make myself feel like I'm a scurvy dog.. arrrrrrrr
Yes.. piracy is more than ruffled collars, peg legs, and bad teeth..
@Seightan
Could you be any more of a mis-informed douche?
Of course piracy is stealing. Just because you can click links and hide from behind your computer screen doesnt make it any less immoral than stealing, or any *cooler*.
@Seightan AHHH I get it now, you're a troll. Man, I was confused there for a second!
Engadget, please feel free to forward his IP to whomever you see fit. Thanks!
@ Seightan
"Screw paying for movies, they make enough money anyways. "
What a statement. You should be thanking the people that do pay for their movies instead of calling them idiots. Without them the movies wouldn't be "making enough money".
I use netflix almost daily on my 360 and haven't had any problems.
So do I, and I always get four bar quality or HD (when available). Though I was on the phone with Netflix one time and the guy said he was shocked at what great connections I got, and that the average one was two quality bars.
Part of the allegations are that the 360 is being favored at the expense of other devices (since MS supposedly hosts some of the stuff).
So his answer is basically, "we keep and serve different encodes of the material based on your device". Which can mean that they indeed serve better versions to various devices with no way to know what goes where.
I have tried a 360 and a PC side by side both plugged into the same router. The 360 gets better quality sometimes for no good reason. And I dont mean HD vs SD.
I have been having a lot of problems through my 360. Solid connection up front, but as soon as the initial buffered part is done it drops to a lower quality and is horrible the rest of the way. It is starting to happen more frequently, and yesterday I couldn't even get a decent connection through my laptop, although the multiple speed tests I did all had my 7mb connection pegged with no issues.
I use it a fair bit on my Roku as well, and while I don't have any outright service problems, there are issues at times. For one, encoding quality--even at four bars--varies considerably between titles. Then there is also the occasional crappy sound issue--on some titles the sound is just plain bad (Bottle Shock), on others it occasionally drops out and is barely audible, then comes back, etc. Not bad enough to make me throw out the box, but annoying. Above all, though, I wish more desirable content were available.
I have a 360, TiVo HD, and the LG Blu-Ray player which all have netflix but my 360 is the only one that gets full bars on HD all the time where the tivo and LG don't.
@Andy I believe that statement refers to the face that Xbox and Roku both use the new Advanced Profile streams, which if I understand correctly are optimized for a lower bitrate. I believe the PC and TiVo streams use the older encoding.
I think I've had one or two problems on my MBP through FF (took about 2 minutes to re-buffer) but for the most part I've been happy with it.
"could affect some users, but not others, at some times, but not always." - Best PR line ever.
So in other words the CEO is saying tough shit, here our excuse, you can't sue us, Have a nice day!
no he say "it's isp faulty". isp cap the speed and that's it.
Dad uses the Roku constantly..never any problems..
I used netflix watch instantly at the office, without error, along with my 360.
Sounds to me like the problem is more geographic than anything. I blame the tubes.
Check your bandwidth on speedtest.net or speakeasy.net or any other billion sites that test bandwidth for free. I've been having trouble lately with Comcast (after no significant changes to my set at all). I used to get 12Mbps easily and consistently. then in the past couple of weeks, it dropped to sub-1Mbps most of the time and a high of 2-3Mbps rarely. Don't start blaming Netflix for your problems. Check the root cause first. Netflix has never given me a problem. Comcast is other story however.
I totally agree. I think the real issue here is that, suddenly, Hulu, Netflix, Vuze, [insert broadband video carrier here] are placing more network strain than ever before on systems which were designed under the assumption that traffic would always not be concurrent.
See, concurrency is what's screwing the ISPs, and it's concurrency that I blame for periodic slowness.
I use Netflix at two different locations using different hardware. At one location, the ISP is comcast and the hardware is Roku and two different PCs using the silverlight player. At the other, I have Cox and a 360.
The Comcast connection is more rural and seems less oversubscribed, so performance is always great. Generally always 4 dots and HD. No problems outside the normal Silverlight quality complaints. The Roku itself is rock solid.
The Cox connection, however, varies wildly. At night or during the evening, it frequently interrupts and does the "adjusting your quality to avoid further interruptions" at least 3 or 4 times, depending on the time. At the same time, on the Comcast connection, everything is fine and HD. Just goes to show how the ISP really is the weakest link sometimes, and I think they're really seeing the load starting to bite them in in the @ss with these services.
It may be better to check your speeds directly with the Netflix CDNs http://cdn.nflximg.com/us/script/speedcheck.html
The problem with speakeasy and the rest is you are testing your speed with their endpoints, but could have a totally different route to the Netflix content.
@Pusta
It has nothing to do with that, I don't get the highest video quality when using Watch Instantly and here's my speed results (I'm on fiber). 2-3 megabytes per second is way more than enough to stream their highest level video stream but I almost never see it for more than a couple of seconds.
Test 1 Results
135k - 1521ms - 710 kBps (fb: 307ms)
270k - 1242ms - 1739 kBps (fb: 156ms)
540k - 2011ms - 2148 kBps (fb: 218ms)
675k - 2155ms - 2506 kBps (fb: 159ms)
810k - 2432ms - 2664 kBps (fb: 154ms)
945k - 3436ms - 2200 kBps (fb: 146ms)
1080k - 4992ms - 1731 kBps (fb: 221ms)
2025k - 16208ms - 1000 kBps (fb: 421ms)
Test 2 Results
135k - 3049ms - 354 kBps (fb: 500ms)
270k - 1679ms - 1286 kBps (fb: 448ms)
540k - 8309ms - 520 kBps (fb: 405ms)
675k - 3284ms - 1644 kBps (fb: 122ms)
810k - 2959ms - 2190 kBps (fb: 252ms)
945k - 5147ms - 1469 kBps (fb: 164ms)
1080k - 4820ms - 1793 kBps (fb: 104ms)
2025k - 8100ms - 2000 kBps (fb: 169ms)
Test 3 Results
135k - 1096ms - 985 kBps (fb: 122ms)
270k - 710ms - 3042 kBps (fb: 168ms)
540k - 2125ms - 2033 kBps (fb: 267ms)
675k - 2322ms - 2326 kBps (fb: 3160ms)
810k - 2337ms - 2773 kBps (fb: 150ms)
945k - 3398ms - 2225 kBps (fb: 222ms)
1080k - 4366ms - 1979 kBps (fb: 156ms)
2025k - 7742ms - 2092 kBps (fb: 205ms)
Test 4 Results
135k - 1145ms - 943 kBps (fb: 406ms)
270k - 1249ms - 1729 kBps (fb: 405ms)
540k - 6586ms - 656 kBps (fb: 387ms)
675k - 6054ms - 892 kBps (fb: 494ms)
810k - 2986ms - 2170 kBps (fb: 465ms)
945k - 8299ms - 911 kBps (fb: 450ms)
1080k - 9630ms - 897 kBps (fb: 378ms)
2025k - 4922ms - 3291 kBps (fb: 368ms)
I stream to different OS/machines and never had an issue that I can recall. The quality for me is fine on those platforms.
It's even worked quite well streaming to Japan.
;)
If it wasn't working for me, I guess I could just cancel my account.
I think it is the roads (DSL, Foptic, etc.) and the road maker(ISP) that would be the problem not the delivery truck/company. I'm not sure what Netflix sign up policy but perhaps they should offer a couple of free movies so customers can try it using their ISP and computer set up to see if it is worth getting. Like Brian above I think it is a geographical issue.
They offer a two-week free trial that gives access to the Instant Watch feature also. So you can try it before you buy it. Awesome service.
no issues here, on a pc, on an xbox, and on a mac
You probably don't notice it but there's a good chance they're throttling you because you just never see the highest bitrate available.
On the PC client you can't tell what quality level they're giving you-there appears to be low, medium, and high. The low is noticable since it's the lower quality video you see when it first loads or you seek, but usually quality improves to the middle level.
However, there is actually a higher setting, but it's rare to see it even if you're on the fastest connection just because it seems like netflix is capping it on their end. I only get tiny bursts of the highest detailed setting, which is actually more annoying than anything else because when the detail suddenly kicks in and then goes away it just reminds me that netflix isn't giving me their highest setting.
I had a problem with my roku box playing very poor quality, 2 dots only, it only lasted a week and has since gone away. only one time I have had a problem with audio sync while watching "strange brew", first 2 times I started watching it the audio was way off, the 3rd time it was fine for an hour. the 4th time it was off again so I gave up. havent had that happen again. I always get 4 dots and HD when available, never any hiccups and I watch a couple hours a day at least 4 days a week. my only real complaint with it is the slim pickins on content. I dont think I would have any problem if they had all the star trek shows available. some one please tell me why they only have season 1 of tos?
My only problem is that running the app fullscreen at 1920x1200 has serious bandwidth-to-screen issues and usually has visible image tearing. This could be fixed by a non-crappy version of the player... i.e., stop using silverlight or flash and write something for real.
I have image tearing playing Netflix movies on my Macbook Pro. I'd rather watch the movies on DVD/Blu-Ray.
I wonder how I can fix this image tearing....
Works fine for me on Tivo HD. I had issues months ago, but lately nothing but smooth watching...
Before their latest update, I'd get 1 or 2 bars on the Roku often, but now it's nearly always 4 bars and quick buffering as well. On my computer, though, under the same roof, I can't say the same. BTW my Roku player and my ipod touch are the two best tech purchases I've been in the past decade. I'm amazed how much I use them both.
Haha, I like the picture.
why would they not be capping bandwith? they openly admit to "throttling" heavy users of the dvd by mail portion of their business.
Maybe Netflix was using Comcast and got bit by the 250GB per month cap? =D Oh well, some ISPs are capping bandwidth to only a couple of gigabytes per month. I think we should be more worried about those.
Exactly, they think they're cell phone providers. If they upgraded their infastructure with all those 'phat' profits they've been getting we wouldn't be worried about bandwidth caps.
Did netflix launch the Streaming only plan yet?
The question was dodged. You want to see the difference when your streams slows to 2-10 hours for 2200 bitrate stream when you have a dl speed of 2.5mb or more then you just have to find the certain url and drop it in a download client and you'll see it only takes about 30 mins without running it through the online client. Reading some of the code it runs a speed test averages your "stable" speed(even minor loss seems to cut this down fast) and keeps ya running about that same speed even if your connection were to improve.
Good to know that problem with audio sync wasn't just me. Yes, they have an audio sync problem, and it's annoying as hell.
if you are getting angry over choppy movies, netflix is probably not the root of the problem.... you need to take a long hard look at your life. seriously
I agree, it sounds like we need to clone Dr. Phill!
And Scott Rose is still an idiot.
I've had a Roku since about Christmas and watched dozens of shows and movies on it. I've had issues exactly twice. The first was with Ocean's 11 about a month and a half ago where the audio was hideously out of sync. I called them, and they had it fixed within three days. The second was two weeks ago with an episode of 30 Rock where the background music was there, but you couldn't hear anybody talking. Kind of hard to watch a TV show without knowing what's being said. Regardless, they took down the HD feed for that, replaced with SD only and it worked fine. PQ was borked, but at least I could hear.
Every other issue I've had with the Roku has been due to bandwidth not being high enough because there were network issues on FIOS in my area. I can see how more of the uninformed users out there might blame Netflix, and at times they are to blame. But honestly, at least from personal experience, four of five times it's been the ISP. Now we'll see if there's another element to the equation because I just got a new Sammy BD-P2550 today which will allow me to compare players.
Hmm..
Anyone remember a few years ago when Netflix kept assuring their customers that they weren't intentionally delaying dvd rental shipments, and then they got sued for it and lost.
Now they are assuring their customers they aren't capping bandwidth?