No surprise that the
Zune HD announcement has resulted in a flurry of iPod rumors, and there's a couple good ones going around today. Obviously the big news is a set of photos purporting to show a next-gen touch with a camera -- the sourcing and the backdrop in some of the pics make it feel like it's a publicity stunt, but the shots of the motherboard next to a current-gen touch's board seem convincing -- especially because of Apple's
recent propensity to leak this sort of thing. The other piece of news? CNET says that whatever
Apple does next month, the new
Cocktail "next-generation album cover" will be a part of it, at least according to "multiple music industry sources." That might link into the
major labels' CMX initiative, it might have something to do with
iTunes 9, it might be a fun little Tom Cruise movie, or it might be nothing at all -- but it sure seems like we're in for a hell of a September.
Update: As commenter Joseph pointed out, these look pretty fake when you zoom in Photoshop -- there's a distinct square of pixels around the lens. Nice publicity stunt, guys -- we'll totally start listening to your show now.
Update 2: After seeing some high res versions of these pics, we think we can safely rule out the JPG artifacting as the tell-tale sign that these are fake. You know what we
can't rule out? The really bad looking Photoshop work around the lens. Much clearer pic after the break. [Thanks for the pic, Manny]
Read - The Covino and Rich Show blog post with iPod touch photos
Read - iPod touch photos on Flickr in higher-res
Read - CNET on Cocktail
posted Aug 14th 2009 3:27PM
I hope we get more than cameras on the new touch's.
Agreed.
I'm holding off until September when I'll either pick up a Touch or a Zune HD. I really hope the Touch brings something special, otherwise I won't hesitate to grab a Zune HD instead.
@Andrew: You and me both, brother. I REALLY want that green Zune HD but if the iPod touch manages to wow me enough, I might just make the change over. Not saying it's likely, since it'd take a hell of a lot to outdo the Zune HD(camera won't do it), but if it happens Apple will get my money.
Keep hoping guys. I'm not saying that the next iPod Touch won't have a camera, but this isn't the next iPod Touch.
Notice the fuzzy ring around the camera. I mean, come on. It's very obvious. Look at the texture of the rest of the photo, notice how the lines slope together. Suddenly, it's like someone touched the pixels with a sponge, or rubbed the grain of the carpet the wrong way.
It's really obvious.
i would suggest those of you who buy iPods and iPhones to seek better alternatives. Stop feeding the pig that is Apple.
fake or not ... who the hell is going to replace their REAL digital camera with a god damn cell phone camera?
@darkmax: And I would suggest that YOU buy whatever the better product for you is, rather than buying based on what company it comes from. Just about anyone here will tell you that I'm much more a fan of the Zune than the iPod but let's try to keep open-minded k?
@redcard: I have no idea what that meant but it's awesome.
if the touch does get a camera, for whatever reason, its gotta be higher than 5 megapixels people.
I have something to say about that Ethan Chapel. Half the stuff on your "lacking" list for the Zune is simply your speculation. Then you have some stuff that is just wrong. No Peer to Peer games? Well we don't know just what sort of games the Zune HD will have, though they have said there will be. But the CURRENT ZUNES already do peer to peer gaming.
@ Ethan Chapel
Why in God's name would you want that crap in a PMP. It's not a phone. That's what phones are for. Copy/Paste? Really? And console quality games? What are you smoking? I have an iPhone and the games are garbage. They aren't even worth pirating. I can't wait to get rid of my iPhone for a real phone and a real PMP (sadly no money..).
Hey! Look at that everyone! Paul Chapelle finally got banned and suddenly Ethan Chapelle joins today and repeatedly posts this annoying rant on every Zune article he can find! Cool!
Please ban him. Do an IP ban. This lying idiot needs to be punished. Because the internet doesn't have a "punch in the face" button yet.
Jesus, does Chapel ever stop?! I'll bet he keeps a notepad open and spends the entire day making these little comparison bs lists up and then copies and pastes the same crap over and over.Ethan, Paul, Elmo, whatever....
I think it's real. Most jpegs will look like that zoomed in inside photoshop.
@iJameswhite
Actually, you little Apple fanboy fcuk, Sony was one of the first to put a high-quality camera into their Hi-MD player. That thing was the shit. Apple is never innovative. The just package things up nicely.
@ijames white
just know that both of those 'cameras' dont even equal my 5 year old 3MP sony digital camera....
when will people realize that these are still cell phone cameras afterall? megapixels are useless when the diameter of the lens isnt even bigger than a cigarette.
there is no innovation here, just a simple addition of a $3 image sensor.... what a joke.
apple finally put a camera,
but they need to become more innovative.
even though they are the best of the best.
Ramble much?
it's easy to ramble
all you have to do is use no punctuation
except periods or capitalization and press the enter key
after every 4-8 words. it is quite easy really.
count the syllables
is it ramble or haiku?
oh wait never mind
@rTwelve: Well done sir, well done.
Too bad they have not found a way to keep the back from smudging and scratching like heck. :\
So Fake, Apple would probably change the design and not keep it the same as the 2nd Gen.
Look at the 3Gs.
See how scratched it is? If this is a leak, the 'new' device wouldn't be that scratched already. Way to "Enhance the image with Adobe Photoshop Software" XD
Also, notice the fuzzyness around the lens.
@Chase
I agree. They could have at least gotten someone good at Photoshop to do it.
I could see the terrible pixelation around the 'shop even from the low quality, non-zoomed pic. They should have blurred the entire picture a little more and submitted it as a Mr. Blurrycam pic, they will take anything if it is blurry enough here at engadget :P (I jest...)
u really think so?
apple's designs are getting stale. look at their laptops, same old boring design year after year after year......
i dont think ipods and iphones are gonna change any time soon! boring. pray to god the features are added instead
the original story on MacRumors (i think... sorry if it's a bad referral!) said it was a durability test unit, so that would explain the scratches. The placement matches the leaked case shots from last month, and I hope they do not change the shape. There are a lot of people with these things, and changing the shape means all new cases and dock adapters. They did the right thing the the 3GS and avoided a small change that would require consumers to buy new cases. Hopefully they do the same with this one (of course, you'd have to pop it out of the case to use the camera!)
The square around the lens is still there, its just harder to see due to the higher quality, It still might be a .jpg problem though.
If the .jpeg quality was the problem with the first one,why did this guy upload another .jpeg? I demand a .bmp or .png of this picture
Looks like it still scratches easily.
I find it interesting that both the Zune HD and the iPhone/iPod touch are getting artist info/bios/etc on the device next month. Cocktail really seems to be almost exactly the same as what the Zune HD offers... though I prefer the Zune HD's implementation since it will also add the info to songs you already have and didn't purchase through the Zune marketplace. I agree though, crazy, insane, freaking amazing September coming.
Looks fake to me. Apples not that stupid.
or maybe they are that stupid. If the only update is a camera/mic and a price cut to match prices to Zune HD then I don't plan on upgrading to a new ipod. Maybe that Zune would be a better issue. I wonder what the battery life is like on the Zune HD.
sweet!
Seriously? The Zune HD looks amazing but insulting a device you haven't seen and know nothing about is just stupid.
And Here We GO.....
Limit as ipod touch tends to iphone is almost derived.
Soon they shall be the same
Looks like someone modded their iPod Touch to me.
its obv fake. leaked photos wouldnt have really scratched backs would they? wow.
What if it is a ipod touch developer's test model? By now they would have been carrying it around for a while and it would be scratched up a bit. It could be very real, unless you are a developer and have a new one in your pocket :P.
Do people ever bother to read the original article?
It's a fragging durability test model you dunce. As stated by multiple commenters and multiple stories.
Why is there a black rubber thing cover the spot where the camera is on the iPhone? Is it because someone is bad at photoshop?
wow, that thing is scratched all to hell... if that's the backside of the device then iPod owners better buy a protective cover for sure
Definitely fake.
Good thing we have you here to confirm this with so much certainty.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/covinoandrich/3821820098/?processed=1&cb=1250288168811
lol
Rest in peace, Foxconn employee.
You know these multi purpose devices are slowly emptying our pockets of other things. eventually we will not even carry cash or credit cards. everything we need will come with the device. One device to rule them all.
Read CNN much?
Why whatever do you mean good sir?
People already purchase subway/tube tickets and vending machine snacks in Japan with their mobiles
There's been talk about a 64gb version - that in my opinion would be the trump card in raising its profile. Apart from that and the camera, I'm not sure how much more they plan to do... i'm pretty sure its not getting OLED yet... hopefully they've done some sound quality improvement and added a customizable equalizer. On the software front, i don't think we can expect anything more than the 3gs, but the processor might be clocked even faster than the 3gs...that would again require them to create an effective underclocking program to have good battery life... This is going to be pretty interesting to track!!!! I don't see a lot of things apple can add, but i have a feeling they are going to release a very different touch.
Am I the only one who noticed there's no apple on the back?
PS. I took this into Photoshop. It's fake. The circle isn't complete and there's a distinct square of pixels around the lens.
Square of pixels around the lens? Like, lets say due to high JPEG compression, like the rest of the image?
Yeah, the bad JPEG compression seen on the whole picture does NOT mean it's a photoshop.
Anyway, they have uploaded a higher quality version here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/covinoandrich/3821580690/sizes/l/in/photostream/
I'm a graphic design major, I'm pretty sure I know what JPEG compression looks like, but thanks for the tips!
Just because you are a graphic designer doesnt make you right or knowledgeable about jpeg compression. There are a lot of graphic designers out there that will disagree with you on this, me being one of them. It is only compression artifacts in this picture due to the curved nature of the camera and the high contrast of the rim beside the case and rest of the lens. This jpeg compression distortion in no way means this is a "photoshop" fake. It just means youve been listening to one too many people who have no idea what they are talking about.
I don't "listen" to anyone who doesn't know what they're talking about. The high-res image looks much better, but it's still off. If these pictures were real, being that they're posted all over the internet, I'm sure Apple would ask to take them down. Believe what you want.
what im saying is that using the argument that it is fake because of jpeg compression is faulty logic. This could be a fake... someone could have hand crafted this fake ipod touch by drilling a hole and putting a camera in there, or be even photoshopping a camera from an iphone onto the back, but the jpeg compression in the photo is not a tell-tale sign of photoshop fakery as your statement suggests. that should be made abundantly clear because it is grossly inaccurate and is used all to often in many arenas. It is a myth that does not to need to be perpetuated any more than it is.
I'm a graphic designer too, Joseph. And you should know as well as anyone else that slight jpeg artifacting is not a telltale sign alone that something has been Photoshopped.
That idea came from one (of many) analysis methods used to prove the validity of images sent to news organizations. But that is not a reliable method by itself by any means. Artifacts can be cause by countless variables. The artifacts visible upon analysis of this shows absolutely nothing.
Upon further analysis I'm not seeing ANYTHING wrong with the images.
If it isn't real then it isn't because they are photo-shopped images, it would be because someone built a fake camera-equipped iPod Touch out of an old, broken shell (quite likely).
Bad Photoshop work around the lens? Seriously? There's no more wrong with that portion of that one image than there is with any part of any other.
Graphic design major eh? You must really know what you're talking about then.. You must definitely know a jpeg artifact from an obvious sign of Photoshopping..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/covinoandrich/3821820098/?processed=1&cb=1250288168811
Or, maybe, you might just be completely full of it.
I don't claim to be all high and mighty because I use Photoshop everyday. I said that the perfect square of pixelation along with the offset camera in the hole of the device made me think it was fake.
After seeing the video, yeah, it's real. But doesn't mean it's the actual iPod touch. Like Rob said, this could be homemade. Maybe that's why there's no front to the device, and why it is never turned on.
And also, since you all think I'm sooo dumb for saying it was fake, don't you think Apple would've had these pictures taken down if they were real? They've been posted all over the internet.
@ Joshua
Engadget just claimed these photos are real. You look like a real dumbass now.
@projectdecember
Actually, you look like a dumbass for putting "joshua" hahah.
And since you seem to know all, please tell me why Apple hasn't asked to have pictures of an UNRELEASED device removed?
It looks like a testing device, they said it was for abuse testing. It has no face for a pretty good reason! http://www.flickr.com/photos/covinoandrich/3820521605/sizes/o/in/photostream/
@ Joseph: I'm calling fake on your "graphic design major" claim. As the term implies, JPEG compression artifacting is an artifact of JPEG compression. The only thing you're majoring in is Fail 101.
and in the end, the more Apple loads this thing with more and more unneccessary stuff, the less quality you're getting out of any given part. I appreciate the fact that the Zune HD isn't letting the idea of being a wonder device get in the way of it's core fuction. They're makig sure it is first and foremost, a kickass media player. Everything else (app store, etc.) is secondary, and they'll get around to implementing them over time as there becomes demand, and they are able to do it right.
I agree with you somewhat. I, personally, think that a camera/mic add on would be boring additions. I can't really think of what features they could add to make it better(at least without making them appear to be trying to catch up with the Zune HD) so it could just be that they've hit a spot in the road where they'll have to be second best(in terms of quality, not popularity obviously) for a while until they can come up with something really revolutionary. In the mean time it seems more like they're watering it down and giving it features nobody really needs. That said, I'm not really sure it's their fault, either. The interface and shape of the device are seeming somewhat dated now, 2 1/2 years after they came to fruition but changing them would be even worse. An interesting dilemma. That said, I'm pretty sure this iPod touch will do extremely well no matter what.
There are visible thumb prints on the iTouch device. Should be easy to catch the culprit.
don't give Apple any ideas!
If a camera and a new coverflow is all they can bring to the game to match the ZuneHD thats really sad.
All well get is upgraded hardware,faster processor and GFX and a camera. new coverflow that theyll do a 10min presentation on stage saying its the greatest thing since sliced bread.
They wont be able to offer anything to match the ZuneHD. meaning no HDradio or 720p video out or OLED screen.
Not sure what everyone is waiting for in sept. Apple cant do to much to the Ipod touch or itll make the iphone seem weak. And the iphone will always get first dibs on the great technology.
A valid point as well, they need to not outshine the iPhone. Of course I doubt that'll affect sales too much.
HDRadio sucks. Try it out before you get all excited over it. It'd bad enough in a car with diversity antennas, on a portable unit it'll be a disaster unless you stand perfectly still.
@why not the LS2LS7?: Well the Zune HD does use the headphones as an antenna. At any rate, we should probably wait until it actually gets reviewed before making judgments on the HD radio quality on it. Besides, it has at least something to do with where you live.
Does to look fake to me. The rubber thing looks like it was just cut and pasted there, and the camera, while initialling convincing, also looks fake due to the notable distortion around the lens. I won't declare that the next iPod Touch won't have a camera, but it sure isn't what these guys are trying to pass off.
If its just a camera with the same photo and video editing mini-apps that the iPhone has; I'm not impressed. The Zune HD looks great, and finally brings portable HD innovation to the table. Wish the new Zunes had a higher capacity, but thats flash memory prices and storage capacity and not MS's fault. I've been using a Zune 80 for a year and a half not and I love the thing.
That looks fake to me. Would the camera lense be sunk that far into the casing? I don't have an iPhone and I've never inspected any (like my friend's phones) close enough. I'd really like to see them do away with that higly polished back. That's one reason why I like the Zune's brushed aluminum/metal. It stands up better to everyday use.
I'm sorry but a crappy built in camera added to any device does not == Teh Win! for me.Seriously, what about this (if true) is such a big deal? I just don't get it. Instant blurrycam Facebook updates is not the most pressing feature of my MP3 player. I'd happily ditch my 80GB Classic for a Zune HD if it had at least an 80GB option, I'd similarly switch to a Touch if it offered it. I simply need storage and maybe a couple fun time-waster games. Whoever can finally offer it is fine with me.
Problem is, such storage is pricey. I know your next argument: use a hard drive then instead of flash. Problem with that is that hard drives product magnetic fields that interfere with capacitive touch screens. These kind of devices are pretty much stuck with flash memory and that kind of storage is just to cost-prohibitive.
Geez, you're a busy one with the replies on this story. No, I'm totally aware of the HDD/Flash issue. I'm also totally sure that if we cut out all the OLED and cameras and assorted other unneeded parts, cramming ~80GB into a solid device is totally possible without the exorbitant price.
Heh, lots of free time today. But my point with the hard drive isn't that there's not enough space, it's that it's just not possible in a capacitive device since it screws with the touch input. Even 64GB SSD's cost quite a lot on their own. If you want 80GB the next step you'd have to go to is 128GB, which cost upwards of $300 for the SSD itself. And that's for a 2.5" one which would be unlikely to fit in this small of a device. I think we'll have to wait a year or so until we get up to that capacity.
No, I understand fully. I am well versed in EE and hardware design, I don't need any help there. What you fail to understand is that it is not a 64/128GB issue. Build 16GB into the device for the OS (which always eats up some space to begin with) and for storage and then have your standard 64GB flash drive, that's 80GB and totally doable. The cost is easily less than adding a camera or OLED. Even 128 is possible totally in flash in a small form factor and at a price in line with what the OLED is adding.
I like my 2nd gen 32 gig, but apple has to do something special to replace mine, even a 64 gig wont do it, between a couple shows I keep on and a movie or 2, plus all the songs, I still dont have half of it full, I would love to see an HD out or something along those lines, if not, I will have to replace my broken screen touch (dropped it about 5ft about 5 times, rather clumsy I am) with the ZHD.
The fakes are real, the camera is not.
:-(
i say, the scratches are real but the camera.
I would assume this is fake, but who knows? In my opinion, apple would still try to keep some distinction between the iPhone and touch lines, and the adding of a camera etc would be a step too far. I do wonder though what apple's next step with the touch will be.
http://www.myfreegadget.co.uk/
I too think it looks a bit fake however the square look around the lens is dude to JPEG compression not a dodgy cut and paste.
due even.
The photo is probably not a fake, go to the gallery that it links to and look at the side by side image with the face plate off, look at the top, the 2 units are different one has no module next to the infrared sensor and the other does, I would put my money on that being a camera module. As to the other image, that "square" is more than likely JPEG artifacting which has everything to do with the way the file was saved to put on the web.
Hey guys,
I was the guy that sent in the iPod pics. If they're fake, we didn't know it...and it wasn't a stunt by us. I even watermarked them in Paint...I don't even know HOW to use Photoshop. Our listener was the one who put our website backdrop in the pics.
Having said that, I think they might be real. I think the pixels came when I saved them as low-res versions when I did the Paint water-marking. To prove I think they're legit, I've sent in a HIGH-RES unwater marked photo.
Check it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/covinoandrich/3821580690/
That's just compression artifacts you're seeing there. Based on that there's no way to tell if they're fake or not.
You guys said the same thing with the Mac mini it's real just accept it.
Maybe a little fast to call fake there engadget?
username delivers.
You need to take down this headline, it is showing naivete about jpeg compression, and I dont think you want that being a tech site.
The fact that there are jpeg artifacts in no way means that it is fake, it just means that someone doesnt understand jpeg compression. people commonly try to use the "lotta squares" around an area as obvious fakery. There are higher amounts of jpeg compression distortion around circular/curved areas. There is a simple test to prove why this accusation is inaccurate, make a large pic in photoshop, use one color for the background, and make a large circle of another color. Save it as small a file size as possible (which will create the most jpeg distortion), and then reopen the file. You will see that most of the picture has NO jpeg compression distortion, only the areas with the edge of the circle going through it.
So this picture by no means is a fake based on the fact that there is a square of pixels around the circle. That is always going to show up in any photo that is highly compressed using JPEG.
I think it's fake. It's obvious that the next iPod touch will have 2 front facing cameras (for 3d) with facial recognition and allow you to interact with your games just like Xbox & PS are going to. It will also double as a Wiimote and come with a pico projector or will it be inviso hmmmm.....
wow, big whoop. first of all, i'm pretty certain this is a fake, especially because of where the camera IS! most peoiple like to turn their camera sideways for landscape pictures, and the placement of this camera is awful, Apple wouldn't do this. Second, if they do add a camera, Apple would definitely would not make it better than the iPhone camera (because it just isn't apple) so they'll probably just match it, which is only 3 megapixels (my phone camera is of higher quality, so no thanks.) Third, if they do add a mic... wow, not too excited about that one.
All apple can do is make the iPod Touch just AS good as the iPhone, it just doesn't seem like Apple to make it better than their "baby". I think the Zune HD is definitely going to do better, mainly for its pricing, because the iPod Touch is incredibly over priced! ($400 for 32 gb, ouch...) and if they do drop the price to match the Zune HD.. that'll be a $120 price drop! again, doesn't really sound like Apple to me. (and if they do drop the price that steeply that quickly, then its going to be a dead give-away that they did it because of the Zune)
btw, it would pretty cool if the Zune HD had a camera (ONLY BECAUSE OF WHAT I'VE SEEN WHAT THE TEGRA CHIP CAN DO WITH IT!!! not just because its a Zune and i hate Apple or anything)
Oh!! and also, i don't know about any one else, but Apple some what fails to provide a "cool" looking interface AND FUN to those who do not have wireless at their home or internet. i have used an iPod Touch with out utilizing the wireless and try to avoid internet connection.. and i have got to say that it is EXTREMELY BORING!! its way too simple and you can't do much with it.. but hey, thats MY opinion ;)