IMHO this is Nokia's last chance to prove they can do a better job than Google \ Android. If this new OS is as bad, buggy, and underdeveloped as the previous Symbian version, then they do not stand a chance!
@DoctarPeppar : Symbian's many things, but it's not underdeveloped. If anything it's dangerously overcooked at this stage, which is what all this Symbian^3 business should clear out. They've had to boot out a whole lot of old code during the open source process.
@sockatume I strongly dissagree...Symbian S60v5 had no working VOIP (SIP), no multitouch _at_all_, a pretty crappy web browser that crashed alot, no decent game or application support (even to this day the majority of Symbian apps in all the app stores are for v3, and not compatible with v5).
@DoctarPeppar Good thing to remember that Maemo is high end nowadays while the real change of many different Maemo phones is in 2011 and most importantly Maemo 6/harmattan release this year.
Plus Symbian^3 is really just half way there. Glorified Symbian 5th edition probally. Symbian^4 is totally Qt based like Maemo 6 and uses direct UI by Nokia.
Still really interesting phone this N87 and it seems kind of solid that it's real, but it seems it's not yet seen in Nokia's own event in Barcelona yet, but still in 1h this year.
@DoctarPeppar "strongly dissagree...Symbian S60v5 had no working VOIP (SIP), no multitouch _at_all_, a pretty crappy web browser that crashed alot, no decent game or application support (even to this day the majority of Symbian apps in all the app stores are for v3, and not compatible with v5). "
S60 5th had various third party SIP/VOIP clients. I preferred Nimbuzz myself. It did lack multitouch, but those devices with multitouch lacked much more that the N97 and other 5th Edition models had. What features are you willing to lose just to gain multitouch? Zooming via tapping or using OSK isn't ideal, but when added with multitasking and DVD quality video capture, support for more services, and Flash in the browser, who cares?
Crappy browser?! The one that plays Flash embedded videos? What are you judging the browser on? From your claims of it crashing alot, I assume your experience of the device wascursory around its launch. The firmware updates squared all that away, added kinetic scrolling throughout the UI, and my N97 rarely had an issue at all. But I bet you are one of those guys that returned it before allowing the firmware updates to fix it weeks later.
From your description of the Ovi Store, you never had an N97, and are judging the Ovi Store on your experienceing the web interface, not the dedicated app built into th device. It doesn't include apps from incompatible versions in the App Store. Try using the devices you read about, troll...
@christexaport Compare the quality of fring and nimbuzz to V3's built in SIP client. Nokia publically admitted that the SIP client for v5 was broken on their own forums and not properly finished coded, and they just left it like that. It was an insult to everyone.
It plays flash LITE videos, the n900 has full flash, and on alot of flash sites, it will crash the browser. I prefer to just flat out disable flash because it is so buggy. N900 has a proper browser and full flash -- So I am judging the browser on the N900's, and I think everyone will agree that the N900's browser is FAR superior, especially for an OS that's basically in it's infancy (Maemo).
I mentioned nothing about the Ovi store, I am talking about the QUALITY of applications and games available for S60v5. How many 3d open GL es 2.0 games are there? 2? What about all the other cool Apps that other platforms have but S60v5 doesn't? Compare S60v5's applications to iPhones, WebOS, Android, shit even Windows Mobile...it's the absolute worst out of all the mobile platforms, maybe even worse than blackberry lol.
I think you should read press releases of Nokia when they said they are reaching 1 billion downloads a day. The top 3 phones downloading content from the Ovi Store were Nokia 5800, N97 and N97mini. All 3 are S60v5.
Now, lets come to the quality of apps. You are right, there are not many OpenGL ES 2.0 games in there. But does that make a lot of difference?May be to many like you, but may be not to many like me. I am not buying my phone to waste my majority time playing games or searching for games. I buy it for many other reasons, which are generally satisfied by all the apps available out there in market.
Everyone whines about XX has Y number of apps less than Apple's >100,000. Lot of studies have shown and many my friends who also have an iphone agree that you may be downloading lot of apps, but you hardly use 3 to 4 of them regularly, rest are just sitting on your phone. Ofcz, if you are game addict, then its a different story.
@(Unverified) Yes you're right, but it's not just about games...it's about the entire quality of the applications -- the GUI, the way they are programmed, the content, the speed, the usefullness, the intelligence...Even the worst iPhone or Android app ever designed looks and functions better than an S60v5 application...the UI is just so..Meh! Looks like it's about 8 or 9 years obsolete. Take GooleMaps on the iPhone or Nexus One and Droid for instance; very fast, smooth, compass support, multitouch support...then look at Google Maps on the N97...it doesn't even look like it's made by the same company.
Yes, the UI definitely needs improvement -- too often, it takes way way too many clicks to get something done. But that's about the only real bad think about the S60.
About your other claims (no working VOIP (SIP), no multitouch _at_all_, a pretty crappy web browser that crashed alot, no decent game or application support), you made it worse than it really is.
VOIP, we've already proven you're wrong.
Multitouch is no big deal (hey, some people can live without multitasking so...).
Browser crash? OK maybe but my iPod Touch browser crashes from time to time too. (I have not experienced a browser crash on my 5800.)
No decent games? Perhaps but I really don't care.
Apps? There are plenty for me. How many apps does one really need?
Sure, all these things can benefit from some improvements but, again, it's NOT THAT BAD.
You have? So you have proof that Fring or Nimbuzz on v5 is just as good quality as v3 with the NATIVE sip client? I'd like to see the lab tests and conclusions, if you don't mind.
"Apps? There are plenty for me. How many apps does one really need?"
Again, nowhere in ANY of my comments did I mention NUMBER of APPS! I am talking about the QUALITY of applications. Do you speakie da english?
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IMHO this is Nokia's last chance to prove they can do a better job than Google \ Android. If this new OS is as bad, buggy, and underdeveloped as the previous Symbian version, then they do not stand a chance!
@DoctarPeppar : Symbian's many things, but it's not underdeveloped. If anything it's dangerously overcooked at this stage, which is what all this Symbian^3 business should clear out. They've had to boot out a whole lot of old code during the open source process.
@sockatume
I strongly dissagree...Symbian S60v5 had no working VOIP (SIP), no multitouch _at_all_, a pretty crappy web browser that crashed alot, no decent game or application support (even to this day the majority of Symbian apps in all the app stores are for v3, and not compatible with v5).
@DoctarPeppar Good thing to remember that Maemo is high end nowadays while the real change of many different Maemo phones is in 2011 and most importantly Maemo 6/harmattan release this year.
Plus Symbian^3 is really just half way there. Glorified Symbian 5th edition probally. Symbian^4 is totally Qt based like Maemo 6 and uses direct UI by Nokia.
Still really interesting phone this N87 and it seems kind of solid that it's real, but it seems it's not yet seen in Nokia's own event in Barcelona yet, but still in 1h this year.
@DoctarPeppar
"strongly dissagree...Symbian S60v5 had no working VOIP (SIP), no multitouch _at_all_, a pretty crappy web browser that crashed alot, no decent game or application support (even to this day the majority of Symbian apps in all the app stores are for v3, and not compatible with v5). "
S60 5th had various third party SIP/VOIP clients. I preferred Nimbuzz myself. It did lack multitouch, but those devices with multitouch lacked much more that the N97 and other 5th Edition models had. What features are you willing to lose just to gain multitouch? Zooming via tapping or using OSK isn't ideal, but when added with multitasking and DVD quality video capture, support for more services, and Flash in the browser, who cares?
Crappy browser?! The one that plays Flash embedded videos? What are you judging the browser on? From your claims of it crashing alot, I assume your experience of the device wascursory around its launch. The firmware updates squared all that away, added kinetic scrolling throughout the UI, and my N97 rarely had an issue at all. But I bet you are one of those guys that returned it before allowing the firmware updates to fix it weeks later.
From your description of the Ovi Store, you never had an N97, and are judging the Ovi Store on your experienceing the web interface, not the dedicated app built into th device. It doesn't include apps from incompatible versions in the App Store. Try using the devices you read about, troll...
@DoctarPeppar
What do you mean? You can install VOIP apps (Skype, Nimbuzz..), various alternative browsers and quite a few other useful apps.
I do think that S60 needs a huge revamp, tho. Compared to some other touchscreen OSs the UI is sub par.
@christexaport
Compare the quality of fring and nimbuzz to V3's built in SIP client.
Nokia publically admitted that the SIP client for v5 was broken on their own forums and not properly finished coded, and they just left it like that. It was an insult to everyone.
It plays flash LITE videos, the n900 has full flash, and on alot of flash sites, it will crash the browser. I prefer to just flat out disable flash because it is so buggy. N900 has a proper browser and full flash -- So I am judging the browser on the N900's, and I think everyone will agree that the N900's browser is FAR superior, especially for an OS that's basically in it's infancy (Maemo).
I mentioned nothing about the Ovi store, I am talking about the QUALITY of applications and games available for S60v5. How many 3d open GL es 2.0 games are there? 2? What about all the other cool Apps that other platforms have but S60v5 doesn't? Compare S60v5's applications to iPhones, WebOS, Android, shit even Windows Mobile...it's the absolute worst out of all the mobile platforms, maybe even worse than blackberry lol.
@DoctarPeppar
I think you should read press releases of Nokia when they said they are reaching 1 billion downloads a day. The top 3 phones downloading content from the Ovi Store were Nokia 5800, N97 and N97mini.
All 3 are S60v5.
Now, lets come to the quality of apps. You are right, there are not many OpenGL ES 2.0 games in there. But does that make a lot of difference?May be to many like you, but may be not to many like me. I am not buying my phone to waste my majority time playing games or searching for games. I buy it for many other reasons, which are generally satisfied by all the apps available out there in market.
Everyone whines about XX has Y number of apps less than Apple's >100,000. Lot of studies have shown and many my friends who also have an iphone agree that you may be downloading lot of apps, but you hardly use 3 to 4 of them regularly, rest are just sitting on your phone. Ofcz, if you are game addict, then its a different story.
@(Unverified)
Yes you're right, but it's not just about games...it's about the entire quality of the applications -- the GUI, the way they are programmed, the content, the speed, the usefullness, the intelligence...Even the worst iPhone or Android app ever designed looks and functions better than an S60v5 application...the UI is just so..Meh! Looks like it's about 8 or 9 years obsolete. Take GooleMaps on the iPhone or Nexus One and Droid for instance; very fast, smooth, compass support, multitouch support...then look at Google Maps on the N97...it doesn't even look like it's made by the same company.
@DoctarPeppar Smells FUD.
Yes, the UI definitely needs improvement -- too often, it takes way way too many clicks to get something done. But that's about the only real bad think about the S60.
About your other claims (no working VOIP (SIP), no multitouch _at_all_, a pretty crappy web browser that crashed alot, no decent game or application support), you made it worse than it really is.
VOIP, we've already proven you're wrong.
Multitouch is no big deal (hey, some people can live without multitasking so...).
Browser crash? OK maybe but my iPod Touch browser crashes from time to time too. (I have not experienced a browser crash on my 5800.)
No decent games? Perhaps but I really don't care.
Apps? There are plenty for me. How many apps does one really need?
Sure, all these things can benefit from some improvements but, again, it's NOT THAT BAD.
@WickedEast
"VOIP, we've already proven you're wrong."
You have? So you have proof that Fring or Nimbuzz on v5 is just as good quality as v3 with the NATIVE sip client? I'd like to see the lab tests and conclusions, if you don't mind.
"Apps? There are plenty for me. How many apps does one really need?"
Again, nowhere in ANY of my comments did I mention NUMBER of APPS! I am talking about the QUALITY of applications. Do you speakie da english?