@taligent The iPad is a crippled cellphone with a huge screen. And no, it is not a laptop with a touchscreen, it is a netbook with a touchscreen.
Are you going to imply that netbooks running Windows 7 have not been a sales success? Are you going to pretend that Windows 7 doesn't have extensive touch optimizations?
If you want a cellphone with a bigger screen, get a Dell Mini 5, at least it can still make calls and fit in your pocket. :)
@Ducman69 At least there's enough 'iPad fanbois' that actually own the thing to make a circle holding hands and singing in chorus. Looking at the fabulous failures of literally every Windows tablet in history, it remains to be seen more than 2 people will actually buy the HP slate.
@drange How many netbook based Windows 7 tablets do you have experience with?
Its using netbook class hardware, minus the keyboard, plus a touchscreen. Netbook sales have nearly doubled every single year since 2007, and are booming in Asia right now.
iPad sales are in the hundreds of thousands, netbook sales and computers running Windows 7 are in the hundreds of millions. I think that qualifies as a sales success. ;)
@Ducman69 .. Why don't you stop moving the goalposts ? This has nothing to do with netbooks. Yes they are successful. Of course they are.
We are talking about TABLETS. Show me a tablet running Windows 7 that has decent battery life and is iPad sized i.e. thin. The HP Slate is thicker, smaller/crappier screen and only has around 5 hours battery life.
Whatever happened to productivity in this world? What will a gimped OS do to productivity? Who spends 10 hours on a device in a single day? What will a lightweight OS do that a full OS cant do?
@taligent My girlfriends 50cc scooter also gets better fuel economy than my 650cc Suzuki. The iPad gets superior battery life to a HP Slates because the iPad is running crippled cellphone (iPhone) hardware, the Slate is a netbook with a touchscreen.
5hrs life on netbook hardware is considered excellent, the average is 4hrs for flush-fit batteries.
And just like the motorcycle to scooter comparison, you use more fuel but you also have a far more robust and capable machine. Enjoy your scooter.
Look at the fanboys making excuses, so we should excuse Windows tablets for having pathetic battery lifes. I mean companies should stop start decreasing battery life, afterall who spends 8 hours on a laptop in a day, or 10 hours. We should be going down to 2 hour battery life.
Don't mind them, no wonder HP is looking to other solutions. No one wants to be loaded a bloated OS on tablets which need lean operating systems to run effieciently.
@Kwame Nkrumah Yes, netbook based hardware running Windows 7 will fail so hard.
Oh wait, its the number one growing computing segment with hundreds of millions of units sold. Oops!
Windows 7 however was not designed to run on cellphone based hardware, and for that, there are a myriad of options from the Windows CE based WM7 to google to linux.
@Ducman69 That's what I meant, a tablet running Windows 7. I ask, cause the things that's scratching my head are: how is the performance? and whether you have trouble touching small icons? If battery life is greater than 4 hours for a full fledged OS, I say that's highly acceptable.
I recommend you stop cause no one Apple associated can understand why we prefer Windows over OSX. They prefer a gimped OS than a full one. I need a swiss knife to take to work not a butter knife. I need a couple of hours to do my work not 10. Question: Who the hell spends 10 hours on their iPad?
@Kwame Nkrumah LOL! You just embarrassed yourself again. 187 million netbooks sold as of the beginning of this year. By the end of the year, projections show sales should slow a bit to reach 210 million.
"I mean companies should stop start decreasing battery life, afterall who spends 8 hours on a laptop in a day, or 10 hours. We should be going down to 2 hour battery life."
huh? I day trade for a living. Can you imagine the kind of results i would get trading off a iPad? oh i forgot, i cant. Zen-fire/ninja trader doesnt work with the iphone os my friend. You see those hand held devices at the Nasdaq? Yea those, held by the daytraders. I wonder what os is in those devices?
Can you imagine your retirement/SIP/401 trading from the iPad? Wall Street controls your financial well being. Were not using Apple, were all windows.
Where in there does it say netbooks have sold anywhere close to 200 million. Do some of you think before you write. From your link it shows that in 2009 netbooks accounted for 11 percent of the PC market. Netbooks were introduced in 2007, so if they have supposedly sold 200 million, it means they have sales of around like let's say 65 million a year. So if they have sales of 65 million a year, would it mean that PC sales in total is close to 650 million a year, heck no, so you are wrong. Stop talking out of your ass.
@Kwame Nkrumah I wouldn't say its a failure. HP are placing different devices for different market segments. For example:
- Full Creativity and full media consumption -> Windows 7 -> 4+ battery life - Semi creativity and full media consumption - > Android -> 6-8 hrs nattery life. - Semi creativity and media consumption (no Flash) -> iPad - >10+ hrs battery life.
The first 2 have more freedom, but can be crippled because of fragmentation.
Where in there does it say netbooks have sold anywhere close to 200 million. Do some of you think before you write. From your link it shows that in 2009 netbooks accounted for 11 percent of the PC market. Netbooks were introduced in 2007, so if they have supposedly sold 200 million, it means they have sales of around like let's say 65 million a year. So if they have sales of 65 million a year, would it mean that PC sales in total is close to 650 million a year, heck no, so you are wrong. Stop talking out of your ass.
This has nothing to do with an ipad genius. You claimed the ipad's 10 hour battery life is irrelevant and that no one should use it for that long. I guess companies should start decreasing battery life according to your wise logic.
@eminisp That's hilarious, calling OS X crippled and limited compared to Windows. Last time I checked OS X is usable and complete the minute you boot it for the first time, while with Windows you'll be installing 20 different 3rd-party tools before you can even start thinking about using the damn computer.
Maybe, you could be so kind to name one (1) single thing that makes OS X more limited or crippled than Windows for any task you can think of, as long as you don't come up with 'uhuhuh running a Windows game' or something similar.
HP also wants to cut the costs of licensing W7. When the iPad was introduced at a price $300 lower than anyone expected, it sent Slate (and everyone else's) engineers back to the drawing boards. If they ditch W7 and intel, HP could easily shave about $100 off the unit production cost. That's $200-$250 at retail.
@eminisp And before you answer that one, let me list a few examples that show the exact opposite: full BSD environment, X-Windows, full development toolchain, full Apache webserver, SSH/SMB/AFS connectivity, full photo and music management software, integrated PDF reader, no need to install additional security software, full backup suite that even your grandma can use, full scripting capabilities, powerful terminal and shell, no additional drivers required, .... Do I have to continue?
Already you all forgot that there is a difference between the tablets you're comparing. All those tablets of yesteryear were mainly for productivity (tablet convertibles ya know?), not light browsing and playing games. They were not for media consumption, they were meant for creation
These tablets made by HP, as well as the Looking Glass, many Archos devices and Streak, are the ones you should be comparing to the iPad. Those devices are in the same category, bar none.
But for the sake of arguing, you throw the TC1100, tx2 in the mix simply because they are touchscreen. 2+2 does not = 5 ameegos.
If you're gonna run Windows for a tablet, you're gonna do it mainly for work, not play. There are tablets that can have good specs for running good games, but trust me, that ain't the real reason you'd buy one.
But hey, I'm just throwing this out there, again. So continue with your flamewar.
@eminisp .. I can do 10 hours of productivity on an iPad. No problem at all. Everyday I use Basecamp, Highrise, Oracle eBusiness, SAP, Peoplesoft, Email all of which are accessible via the web. Especially since the iPad has VPN.
You know the iPad has a web browser right and that most business apps are now web apps ?
@eminisp That's not exactly an answer to my question but you know what? Just forget about it... The level of general ignorance, hate, irrationality and flaming in this topic is far beyond my comprehension. I feel like I accidentally ended up on some kind of religious forum. Cheers mate, enjoy your Windows and your tablet with a desktop-OS and feel like you own the world.
@Ducman69 Ducman, you cannot compare iPad sales with Netbook sales. First, netbooks have been around for a long time. Second, netbooks are available in EVERY country (well almost). Third, iPad has been out for what? 1 month? and you already compare it with a device (netbooks) that have been out for years? Nice comparison, but you fail...
And, for your information, you cannot compare a slate/touchscreen device with an ALMOST full fledge laptop (AKA netbook)... I had a true tablet with Windows. Its just TOO slow. Windows is a POWER HOG, just how it is. It runs, but its a HOG. Eats battery fast, needs LOTS of power. Those specifics are NOT in a touch tablet/pad/whatever... So until MS gets their crap straight, Windows tablets/pads/whatever will always fail. Lets hope that they can make something with Windows Mobile 7, THEN, you have a comparison to the iPad. (and no im no fanboy for Apple)...
Thats not the problem. All im saying is who spends 10 hours on a single device each day? The argument i hear and im sure yourself is battery life on PC products blows. When im done for the day, i plug in my laptop for charging for the following days work. I complete my day in a matter of hours. I dont need 10. Thats why i called kwame a idiot cause if it takes someone ten hours to complete something he/she has to be an idiot. Im not calling you an idiot but the people who need 10 hours to complete a "SIMPLE" project an idiot.
@cornelp TBH, Windows tablets/netbooks for play...well...SHOULDN'T run Windows at all, they should run a CE variant. The iPad Got It Right, it isn't running OSX because it isn't designed to do all your business shiz. It's meant for media consumption, and if they throw in apps for productivity, they can do it with ease because it's simple to code for OS 3.2/4.
If you're gonna run Windows on a tablet/netbook, it should be for working.
Of course they are not in the same class, one has been a success on touchscreens, the other has been a big FAIIL for the past 10 years. Guess which is which?
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So I guess Windows 7 wasn't that good for a tablet, lol.
@Kwame Nkrumah Windows 7 kicks ass for a tablet, you just experienced a circle of iPad fanbois like yourself holding hands singing in chorus.
@Ducman69 .. Every Windows 7 tablet we have seen either has terrible battery life or is basically a laptop with a touchscreen.
If you can show us a Windows 7 tablet that is iPad sized and has 10 hours battery life then we will believe you.
@taligent The iPad is a crippled cellphone with a huge screen. And no, it is not a laptop with a touchscreen, it is a netbook with a touchscreen.
Are you going to imply that netbooks running Windows 7 have not been a sales success? Are you going to pretend that Windows 7 doesn't have extensive touch optimizations?
If you want a cellphone with a bigger screen, get a Dell Mini 5, at least it can still make calls and fit in your pocket. :)
@Ducman69
At least there's enough 'iPad fanbois' that actually own the thing to make a circle holding hands and singing in chorus. Looking at the fabulous failures of literally every Windows tablet in history, it remains to be seen more than 2 people will actually buy the HP slate.
@drange How many netbook based Windows 7 tablets do you have experience with?
Its using netbook class hardware, minus the keyboard, plus a touchscreen. Netbook sales have nearly doubled every single year since 2007, and are booming in Asia right now.
iPad sales are in the hundreds of thousands, netbook sales and computers running Windows 7 are in the hundreds of millions. I think that qualifies as a sales success. ;)
@Ducman69 Just curious do who have a Windows 7 Tablet?
@Ducman69 .. Why don't you stop moving the goalposts ? This has nothing to do with netbooks. Yes they are successful. Of course they are.
We are talking about TABLETS. Show me a tablet running Windows 7 that has decent battery life and is iPad sized i.e. thin. The HP Slate is thicker, smaller/crappier screen and only has around 5 hours battery life.
@mrpixel No, but I have a HP tablet and a Dell netbook both running Windows 7.
Combining the two is not a big stretch of the imagination. ;)
@taligent
Whatever happened to productivity in this world? What will a gimped OS do to productivity? Who spends 10 hours on a device in a single day? What will a lightweight OS do that a full OS cant do?
@Ducman69
We are talking about tablets, not netbooks. Netbooks are crappy cheap laptops. Get it straight.
@taligent My girlfriends 50cc scooter also gets better fuel economy than my 650cc Suzuki. The iPad gets superior battery life to a HP Slates because the iPad is running crippled cellphone (iPhone) hardware, the Slate is a netbook with a touchscreen.
5hrs life on netbook hardware is considered excellent, the average is 4hrs for flush-fit batteries.
And just like the motorcycle to scooter comparison, you use more fuel but you also have a far more robust and capable machine. Enjoy your scooter.
@eminisp
Look at the fanboys making excuses, so we should excuse Windows tablets for having pathetic battery lifes. I mean companies should stop start decreasing battery life, afterall who spends 8 hours on a laptop in a day, or 10 hours. We should be going down to 2 hour battery life.
@Ducman69
Kicks what ass? Windows 7 on tablets will fail as hard as the other windows based tablets have for the last 10 years.
@taligent
Don't mind them, no wonder HP is looking to other solutions. No one wants to be loaded a bloated OS on tablets which need lean operating systems to run effieciently.
@Kwame Nkrumah Yes, netbook based hardware running Windows 7 will fail so hard.
Oh wait, its the number one growing computing segment with hundreds of millions of units sold. Oops!
Windows 7 however was not designed to run on cellphone based hardware, and for that, there are a myriad of options from the Windows CE based WM7 to google to linux.
@Kwame Nkrumah
dear god you have no life look how many times you posted within a 3 minute time fram
@Kwame Nkrumah
dear god you have no life look how many times you posted within a 3 minute time frame
@Ducman69
We are talking about tablets and not netbooks. Netbooks have not sold anywhere close to a hundred million.
@Ducman69 That's what I meant, a tablet running Windows 7. I ask, cause the things that's scratching my head are: how is the performance? and whether you have trouble touching small icons? If battery life is greater than 4 hours for a full fledged OS, I say that's highly acceptable.
@Ducman69
I recommend you stop cause no one Apple associated can understand why we prefer Windows over OSX. They prefer a gimped OS than a full one. I need a swiss knife to take to work not a butter knife. I need a couple of hours to do my work not 10. Question: Who the hell spends 10 hours on their iPad?
@Kwame Nkrumah LOL! You just embarrassed yourself again. 187 million netbooks sold as of the beginning of this year. By the end of the year, projections show sales should slow a bit to reach 210 million.
http://iipalbanjary.net/netbook-sales-growth-revenue/
Owned. :D
@eminisp
Yeah your reasoning is why Windows tablets have been a failure for the past 10 years.
@Kwame Nkrumah
you are pathetic you have posted 12 times on this post and their are only 53 post. that means you make up more than 1/5 of the posts
@Ducman69 Name one good windows 7 tablet. A netbook is 'exactly' a notebook. Same form factor and everything else...
Windows 7 is a poor platform for tablets.
@Kwame Nkrumah
Look at this guy.
He said the following.
"I mean companies should stop start decreasing battery life, afterall who spends 8 hours on a laptop in a day, or 10 hours. We should be going down to 2 hour battery life."
huh? I day trade for a living. Can you imagine the kind of results i would get trading off a iPad? oh i forgot, i cant. Zen-fire/ninja trader doesnt work with the iphone os my friend. You see those hand held devices at the Nasdaq? Yea those, held by the daytraders. I wonder what os is in those devices?
Can you imagine your retirement/SIP/401 trading from the iPad? Wall Street controls your financial well being. Were not using Apple, were all windows.
@Ducman69
Where in there does it say netbooks have sold anywhere close to 200 million. Do some of you think before you write. From your link it shows that in 2009 netbooks accounted for 11 percent of the PC market. Netbooks were introduced in 2007, so if they have supposedly sold 200 million, it means they have sales of around like let's say 65 million a year. So if they have sales of 65 million a year, would it mean that PC sales in total is close to 650 million a year, heck no, so you are wrong. Stop talking out of your ass.
@Kwame Nkrumah I wouldn't say its a failure. HP are placing different devices for different market segments. For example:
- Full Creativity and full media consumption -> Windows 7 -> 4+ battery life
- Semi creativity and full media consumption - > Android -> 6-8 hrs nattery life.
- Semi creativity and media consumption (no Flash) -> iPad - >10+ hrs battery life.
The first 2 have more freedom, but can be crippled because of fragmentation.
@Ducman69
Where in there does it say netbooks have sold anywhere close to 200 million. Do some of you think before you write. From your link it shows that in 2009 netbooks accounted for 11 percent of the PC market. Netbooks were introduced in 2007, so if they have supposedly sold 200 million, it means they have sales of around like let's say 65 million a year. So if they have sales of 65 million a year, would it mean that PC sales in total is close to 650 million a year, heck no, so you are wrong. Stop talking out of your ass.
@Kwame Nkrumah
"Yeah your reasoning is why Windows tablets have been a failure for the past 10 years."
Now I know im talking to a idiot. Now i know why the battery is 10 hours. Thanks for clearing that up. *closes the door*
@eminisp
This has nothing to do with an ipad genius. You claimed the ipad's 10 hour battery life is irrelevant and that no one should use it for that long. I guess companies should start decreasing battery life according to your wise logic.
@eminisp
That's hilarious, calling OS X crippled and limited compared to Windows. Last time I checked OS X is usable and complete the minute you boot it for the first time, while with Windows you'll be installing 20 different 3rd-party tools before you can even start thinking about using the damn computer.
Maybe, you could be so kind to name one (1) single thing that makes OS X more limited or crippled than Windows for any task you can think of, as long as you don't come up with 'uhuhuh running a Windows game' or something similar.
@Kwame Nkrumah
Why cant i get an answer from you or anyone about the 10 hours of productivity? My "logic" still stands. Answer the question and we'll leave it that.
@Kwame Nkrumah
HP also wants to cut the costs of licensing W7. When the iPad was introduced at a price $300 lower than anyone expected, it sent Slate (and everyone else's) engineers back to the drawing boards. If they ditch W7 and intel, HP could easily shave about $100 off the unit production cost. That's $200-$250 at retail.
@eminisp
I will when you tell me why less battery life is better!
Dear Engadget Editor,
This particular thread has become blown out of proportion.
Clearly, the Kwame whatever guy should be banned for his inappropriate language rather than an effort to intelligently contribute to this site.
@eminisp
And before you answer that one, let me list a few examples that show the exact opposite: full BSD environment, X-Windows, full development toolchain, full Apache webserver, SSH/SMB/AFS connectivity, full photo and music management software, integrated PDF reader, no need to install additional security software, full backup suite that even your grandma can use, full scripting capabilities, powerful terminal and shell, no additional drivers required, .... Do I have to continue?
@drange
iPad (iphone os)
HP slate (Windows 7)
Ninja trader genius. Damn, that had to hurt.
Thank you sir.
*closes door*
Already you all forgot that there is a difference between the tablets you're comparing. All those tablets of yesteryear were mainly for productivity (tablet convertibles ya know?), not light browsing and playing games. They were not for media consumption, they were meant for creation
These tablets made by HP, as well as the Looking Glass, many Archos devices and Streak, are the ones you should be comparing to the iPad. Those devices are in the same category, bar none.
But for the sake of arguing, you throw the TC1100, tx2 in the mix simply because they are touchscreen. 2+2 does not = 5 ameegos.
If you're gonna run Windows for a tablet, you're gonna do it mainly for work, not play. There are tablets that can have good specs for running good games, but trust me, that ain't the real reason you'd buy one.
But hey, I'm just throwing this out there, again. So continue with your flamewar.
@Outsider
i agree there is a report button up top to the right of his post i suggest everyone use it
@Kwame Nkrumah
when you begin to act like a elder than i will show respect
@drange
Sorry kid i dont play games on my PC. Thats why i have a PS3 and soon to be thin xbox 360.
@eminisp .. I can do 10 hours of productivity on an iPad. No problem at all. Everyday I use Basecamp, Highrise, Oracle eBusiness, SAP, Peoplesoft, Email all of which are accessible via the web. Especially since the iPad has VPN.
You know the iPad has a web browser right and that most business apps are now web apps ?
@DefPoet
When you learn to show a source for your claim of 200 million netbooks sold, you will get some from me.
@eminisp
That's not exactly an answer to my question but you know what? Just forget about it... The level of general ignorance, hate, irrationality and flaming in this topic is far beyond my comprehension. I feel like I accidentally ended up on some kind of religious forum. Cheers mate, enjoy your Windows and your tablet with a desktop-OS and feel like you own the world.
@Ducman69
Ducman, you cannot compare iPad sales with Netbook sales.
First, netbooks have been around for a long time.
Second, netbooks are available in EVERY country (well almost).
Third, iPad has been out for what? 1 month? and you already compare it with a device (netbooks) that have been out for years? Nice comparison, but you fail...
And, for your information, you cannot compare a slate/touchscreen device with an ALMOST full fledge laptop (AKA netbook)...
I had a true tablet with Windows. Its just TOO slow. Windows is a POWER HOG, just how it is. It runs, but its a HOG. Eats battery fast, needs LOTS of power. Those specifics are NOT in a touch tablet/pad/whatever...
So until MS gets their crap straight, Windows tablets/pads/whatever will always fail.
Lets hope that they can make something with Windows Mobile 7, THEN, you have a comparison to the iPad. (and no im no fanboy for Apple)...
@taligent
Thats not the problem. All im saying is who spends 10 hours on a single device each day? The argument i hear and im sure yourself is battery life on PC products blows. When im done for the day, i plug in my laptop for charging for the following days work. I complete my day in a matter of hours. I dont need 10. Thats why i called kwame a idiot cause if it takes someone ten hours to complete something he/she has to be an idiot. Im not calling you an idiot but the people who need 10 hours to complete a "SIMPLE" project an idiot.
I lul that theses Apple fanboys are comparing an iPhone OS to Windows 7. There not even in the same Class!! lolololol!!
@cornelp TBH, Windows tablets/netbooks for play...well...SHOULDN'T run Windows at all, they should run a CE variant. The iPad Got It Right, it isn't running OSX because it isn't designed to do all your business shiz. It's meant for media consumption, and if they throw in apps for productivity, they can do it with ease because it's simple to code for OS 3.2/4.
If you're gonna run Windows on a tablet/netbook, it should be for working.
@n0ne That's why this argument is kinda stupid for everyone. NO one should be comparing them in the first place.
@n0ne
Of course they are not in the same class, one has been a success on touchscreens, the other has been a big FAIIL for the past 10 years. Guess which is which?