I can accept that G1 is a old phone since it was released in 2008. But what about my HTC Tattoo that was released less than a year ago in September 2009? Is that an old phone too? I don't think so. And you know what, I only have it for 3 months. When I was buying it everybody on the internet were 100% confident that it will get 2.1, even my mobile operator told me that. And all of a sudden it's an old phone. I really can't accept that. I am so angry on HTC and I don't think I'll ever buy their phone again.
But what is it you want the developers to do? Are you saying they should ignore the hardware innovations coming out and take older slower phones as the benchmark for which to build to? If your phone isn't fast enough to process Flash, or it lacks the hardware to process 3D accelerated interfaces, what really do you see as the solution?
that's all bs, the hardware is fully capable of running éclair - even the g1 can do that it's just that manufacturers don't want to upgrade "old" phones (stuck on donut with samsung galaxy myself - officially i should still be on cupcake)
@Tes As you probably know Android 1.6 is missing some basic features like bluetooth file transfer that some 10 year old phones can do easily. And I am sure that my Tattoo is capable to have voice input and Google maps with navigation, new browser. I don't expect it to run flash and latest 3d games. All I am asking for are some core features from newer versions.
@lukic But you're looking at specific features of the OS as some sort of separate entity. All that can run on your phone, yes, but those things are not separate from all the other underlying code that does not run on your phone. There would need to be two versions of every firmware or more...one for the fully featured phones...then another without 3D effects...then another that uses slower processors...etc...
@Tes I really don't understand you. Are you HTC's PR or something? If they could make few different versions of 1.6 for Droid Eris, Sprint Hero and Tattoo I don't see why they can't just do the same with 2.2. Before Tattoo I use to have Nokia 5800 and almost every month we use to get update for that phone. Some were minor but in those six months that I was using it one was huge with many new features asked from the users. Not I am almost using Tattoo for 4 months and I didn't have a single update. And this phone is far from perfect. And could you please tell me what are that 3d features of Android 2.2 that Tattoo can't handle?
@lukic The new HTC Wildfire (also low spec, similar specs to Tattoo besides from screen, same processor) has 2.1, so I don't think there is a tech reason for why they aren't updating the Tattoo (except maybe multi-touch on the resistive screen). However, both the Tattoo and the Wildfire are billed as low spec phones, so that may play into the update cycles of those phones (it seems HTC is targeting the borderline of the feature phone market, which doesn't really care about updates).
@mrqs Samsung, I think is pure laziness. Have they even updated one of their phones yet to a new Android version? If they keep this up, I think you can put them on the list of manufacturers that you shouldn't buy from in term of Android.
I'm sure it had been repeated, but here are the indicating factors of probability of a Android update (in a reasonable amount of time). -Vanilla Android -Carrier Android Update Track Record -Manufacturer Android Update Track Record
@jakey I understand you, but you have to understand me too :) I have this phone for less then 4 months so I still have about 20 months until my contract expires. Am I going to get stucked with 1.6 for the next 2 years? It's not a pretty thought and definitely not something that I was expecting/told when I bought this phone.
@Tes You were not talking about Sense UI in the previous posts, but about some core Android 2.2 features that Tattoo can't handle. Sense UI is the same on all three phones. But Hero/Eris and Tattoo are different phones, since Hero have gpu which Tattoo don't have, screens are different both in size and resolution and yet we have the same 1.6 running on both of these devices without any problems. If you think Sense UI is a stopper for Tattoo's update, you are wrong. There is nothing on this "new" Sense UI Tattoo can't handle. I know that you'll say, Tattoo can't pinch to zoom, so no HTC Leap. But you can achieve Leap with double pressing Home button as well.
You're not making sense. Of course 1.6 would run on older hardware as well as faster hardware. You want faster software (2.0+) to run on slower hardware. It's like you're saying because Windows XP can run on an old Pentium II with 512MB Ram as well as a Core 2 Duo with 2 GB Ram, then Windows 7 running on the Core 2 should run on the Pentium just fine...that makes no sense.
@Tes Did you watch Google I/O 2010 - Keynote Day 2 Android Demo, pt. 1? Vic said: "2 to 5 X speedup of your apps on the exact same hardware". He didn't say specifically Nexus One/Desire or some other phone.
Right...you're not getting me. Look at Android 2.1. In 2.1 there are architectural changes from 1.6 that needed beefier hardware to run. Now they CAN run on older phones, like yours, but it takes time a quite a bit of tweaking to get there. You're acting as if a major release is a trivial matter.
@Tes If guys at XDA could tweak 2.1 to run on Tattoo pretty fast, maybe even better then 1.6 I don't see why HTC can't do that. Unfortunately camera and fm radio are still not working on that rom, but I hope it will be completed soon. Once they get 2.1 finished I am sure we will get 2.2 as well.
@Tes Is that really such a hard thing to do? Even Apple has the intention of allowing the iphone 3g to upgrade to OS 4.0 while preventing multitasking on that device and enabling it on their newer devices.
@Tes The multiple accounts and facebook integration really suck down the cycles off that lowly MSM7k! It's not like my lowest of the lows MT3G with the 192MB RAM runs it like butter thanks to Cyanogen right?
2.2 should be more efficient, PERFECT FOR OLDER MODELS WITH THE MSM7K!
@xanavi That is my idea too. And that is how Linux works in general. Every new version is supposed to run better on the same hardware, it does not demand you to make hardware updates for better performance. Instead software is improved and better optimized to make better use of the same hardware. But I guess HTC just don't want to release updates. Because they just don't care about their users once they sell you the phone.
@lukic I have a 3 year old phone with a 624MHz processor. That's faster than the HTC Tattoo.
Your phone has no GPU for graphics acceleration meaning Flash 10.1, accelerated UI and modern games cannot run as designed or at all.
This is probably why you won't see any updates. If you want a smartphone, you should purchase one with a dedicated GPU otherwise it will be considered outdated before release.
@xsacha My Tattoo already have Flash lite. And I don't need anything more than that. Flash is a separate component and it has nothing to do with this discussion. And if I want to play games on my smartphone, I'll get PSP for that. But I want better and faster browser, Google maps with navigation, voice input, better Market, music streaming. My phone can definitely support those features.
@lukic I mean isn't that one of the features of this update? Hardware accelerated Flash 10.1 (True flash) - not flash lite. This requires a videocard.
What I mean is that all the important updates of this update aren't available because your hardware doesn't support it.
By the way from 2.2 and 2.3 on, each component of the software will be able to update seperately. So this issue you are experiencing won't happen again. But it's too late for you :(.
Now that we've thrown 'em off the trail, use the form below to get in touch with the people at Engadget. Please fill in all of the required fields because they're required.
@Starfleet Captain
I can accept that G1 is a old phone since it was released in 2008.
But what about my HTC Tattoo that was released less than a year ago in September 2009? Is that an old phone too? I don't think so.
And you know what, I only have it for 3 months.
When I was buying it everybody on the internet were 100% confident that it will get 2.1, even my mobile operator told me that.
And all of a sudden it's an old phone.
I really can't accept that.
I am so angry on HTC and I don't think I'll ever buy their phone again.
@lukic
But what is it you want the developers to do? Are you saying they should ignore the hardware innovations coming out and take older slower phones as the benchmark for which to build to? If your phone isn't fast enough to process Flash, or it lacks the hardware to process 3D accelerated interfaces, what really do you see as the solution?
@Tes
that's all bs, the hardware is fully capable of running éclair - even the g1 can do that
it's just that manufacturers don't want to upgrade "old" phones
(stuck on donut with samsung galaxy myself - officially i should still be on cupcake)
@Tes As you probably know Android 1.6 is missing some basic features like bluetooth file transfer that some 10 year old phones can do easily. And I am sure that my Tattoo is capable to have voice input and Google maps with navigation, new browser.
I don't expect it to run flash and latest 3d games.
All I am asking for are some core features from newer versions.
@lukic But you're looking at specific features of the OS as some sort of separate entity. All that can run on your phone, yes, but those things are not separate from all the other underlying code that does not run on your phone. There would need to be two versions of every firmware or more...one for the fully featured phones...then another without 3D effects...then another that uses slower processors...etc...
@Tes I really don't understand you.
Are you HTC's PR or something?
If they could make few different versions of 1.6 for Droid Eris, Sprint Hero and Tattoo I don't see why they can't just do the same with 2.2.
Before Tattoo I use to have Nokia 5800 and almost every month we use to get update for that phone. Some were minor but in those six months that I was using it one was huge with many new features asked from the users.
Not I am almost using Tattoo for 4 months and I didn't have a single update. And this phone is far from perfect.
And could you please tell me what are that 3d features of Android 2.2 that Tattoo can't handle?
@lukic
The new HTC Wildfire (also low spec, similar specs to Tattoo besides from screen, same processor) has 2.1, so I don't think there is a tech reason for why they aren't updating the Tattoo (except maybe multi-touch on the resistive screen). However, both the Tattoo and the Wildfire are billed as low spec phones, so that may play into the update cycles of those phones (it seems HTC is targeting the borderline of the feature phone market, which doesn't really care about updates).
@mrqs
Samsung, I think is pure laziness. Have they even updated one of their phones yet to a new Android version? If they keep this up, I think you can put them on the list of manufacturers that you shouldn't buy from in term of Android.
I'm sure it had been repeated, but here are the indicating factors of probability of a Android update (in a reasonable amount of time).
-Vanilla Android
-Carrier Android Update Track Record
-Manufacturer Android Update Track Record
@lukic
"If they could make few different versions of 1.6 for Droid Eris, Sprint Hero and Tattoo"
What are you talking about? What is different about the 1.6 Sense UI running on those three phones?
@jakey I understand you, but you have to understand me too :)
I have this phone for less then 4 months so I still have about 20 months until my contract expires. Am I going to get stucked with 1.6 for the next 2 years? It's not a pretty thought and definitely not something that I was expecting/told when I bought this phone.
@Tes You were not talking about Sense UI in the previous posts, but about some core Android 2.2 features that Tattoo can't handle. Sense UI is the same on all three phones. But Hero/Eris and Tattoo are different phones, since Hero have gpu which Tattoo don't have, screens are different both in size and resolution and yet we have the same 1.6 running on both of these devices without any problems.
If you think Sense UI is a stopper for Tattoo's update, you are wrong. There is nothing on this "new" Sense UI Tattoo can't handle. I know that you'll say, Tattoo can't pinch to zoom, so no HTC Leap. But you can achieve Leap with double pressing Home button as well.
@lukic
You're not making sense. Of course 1.6 would run on older hardware as well as faster hardware. You want faster software (2.0+) to run on slower hardware. It's like you're saying because Windows XP can run on an old Pentium II with 512MB Ram as well as a Core 2 Duo with 2 GB Ram, then Windows 7 running on the Core 2 should run on the Pentium just fine...that makes no sense.
@Tes Did you watch Google I/O 2010 - Keynote Day 2 Android Demo, pt. 1? Vic said: "2 to 5 X speedup of your apps on the exact same hardware". He didn't say specifically Nexus One/Desire or some other phone.
@lukic
Right...you're not getting me. Look at Android 2.1. In 2.1 there are architectural changes from 1.6 that needed beefier hardware to run. Now they CAN run on older phones, like yours, but it takes time a quite a bit of tweaking to get there. You're acting as if a major release is a trivial matter.
@Tes If guys at XDA could tweak 2.1 to run on Tattoo pretty fast, maybe even better then 1.6 I don't see why HTC can't do that. Unfortunately camera and fm radio are still not working on that rom, but I hope it will be completed soon. Once they get 2.1 finished I am sure we will get 2.2 as well.
@Tes Is that really such a hard thing to do? Even Apple has the intention of allowing the iphone 3g to upgrade to OS 4.0 while preventing multitasking on that device and enabling it on their newer devices.
@Tes The multiple accounts and facebook integration really suck down the cycles off that lowly MSM7k! It's not like my lowest of the lows MT3G with the 192MB RAM runs it like butter thanks to Cyanogen right?
2.2 should be more efficient, PERFECT FOR OLDER MODELS WITH THE MSM7K!
@xanavi That is my idea too. And that is how Linux works in general. Every new version is supposed to run better on the same hardware, it does not demand you to make hardware updates for better performance.
Instead software is improved and better optimized to make better use of the same hardware.
But I guess HTC just don't want to release updates. Because they just don't care about their users once they sell you the phone.
@lukic LOL, the tattoo was an outdated piece of crap upon arrival. inform yourself as a consumer before complaining about your purchases
@lolcopter
Could you just tell me what makes it so crappy?
@lukic
I have a 3 year old phone with a 624MHz processor. That's faster than the HTC Tattoo.
Your phone has no GPU for graphics acceleration meaning Flash 10.1, accelerated UI and modern games cannot run as designed or at all.
This is probably why you won't see any updates. If you want a smartphone, you should purchase one with a dedicated GPU otherwise it will be considered outdated before release.
@xsacha My Tattoo already have Flash lite. And I don't need anything more than that. Flash is a separate component and it has nothing to do with this discussion.
And if I want to play games on my smartphone, I'll get PSP for that.
But I want better and faster browser, Google maps with navigation, voice input, better Market, music streaming. My phone can definitely support those features.
@lukic
I mean isn't that one of the features of this update? Hardware accelerated Flash 10.1 (True flash) - not flash lite. This requires a videocard.
What I mean is that all the important updates of this update aren't available because your hardware doesn't support it.
By the way from 2.2 and 2.3 on, each component of the software will be able to update seperately. So this issue you are experiencing won't happen again. But it's too late for you :(.
@lukic
Exact same story here, I hope HTC will give us a 2.1 update eventually. I'm not even getting my hopes up for 2.2.
@Dries If we ever get 2.1 making 2.2 work on Tattoo will be a piece of cake for the guys over at XDA :)