Ongo Bongo: Netflix-style CD rentals
posted Sep 23rd 2004 9:30AM
Danny Elfman might get on their ass about this (and he is definitely one guy you don't want to get on the bad side of), but a company called Ongo Bongo is offering a service where you can get a free iPod mini if you pre-pay for a year of their Netflix-style music service (which costs $22 a month, or $264 a year) which lets you "rent" unlimited numbers of CDs (i.e. up to four discs at a time). The initial catalog only contains about 20,000 songs (which means probably around 2,000 CDs or so, which is way smaller than even my dad's CD collection), but they claim it'll get up to 100,000 tracks soon. The only thing is, are CD rentals even legal here in the US? They've been a big thing over in Japan for years, anybody know if Ongo Bongo is in for a world of legal pain? (It'd probably be a good thing to figure out before you plunk down $264 for your "free" iPod mini, too.)
What have you got to lose? Assuming that you're in the market for an iPod mini, the $264 price is just slightly higher than MSRP -- and some folks are charging more than that. Even if the service goes bust, you've still got your hardware.
When you say "rent" do you actually mean "rip"?
*snif* *snif* I smell bullshit!
I'm tempted to sign up, eBay the iPod and see what happens...
"What have you got to lose? Assuming that you're in the market for an iPod mini, the $264 price is just slightly higher than MSRP -- and some folks are charging more than that. Even if the service goes bust, you've still got your hardware."
You have to pay for the iPod up front, and they dont say how long your rebate will take. They could decide to only honor the rebate after the 1 year service plan is over.
plus they use YahooShopping WTF is that about
but who knows
It's certainly legal as you can rent cds from lot of libraries.
CD rentals are not legal in the US (escept by nonprofit libraries or educational institutions.) See 17 U.S.C. §109(b).
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#109
§ 109. Limitations on exclusive rights: Effect of transfer of particular copy or phonorecord, (b)(1)(A)
"[U]nless authorized by the owners of copyright in the sound recording or the owner of copyright in a computer program (including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program), and in the case of a sound recording in the musical works embodied therein, neither the owner of a particular phonorecord nor any person in possession of a particular copy of a computer program (including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program), may, for the purposes of direct or indirect commercial advantage, dispose of, or authorize the disposal of, the possession of that phonorecord or computer program (including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program) by rental, lease, or lending, or by any other act or practice in the nature of rental, lease, or lending."
FYI: Sound recording = music on the CDs
There is an exception for non-profits like libraries and such as well as for video game rentals.
Section 106(3) provides the "the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize ... to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending;"
Korben: you're absolutely right -- the offer of a "free" ipod overcame my usual skeptisim. What was I thinking? Always read the fine print.
As for the copyright issue, it's certainly something that can be licensed-around, but I doubt that with the liklihood of people using this service for illegetimate ripping that many record companies would agree to license their works for such a service.
Who has $264 to burn, and wants to try this out for the greater good of gadget lovers everywhere?
Looks like a 'too good to be true' type situation here to me, but I'm all for someone trying it out and proving me wrong.
The domain ongobongo.com is registered with an address at a UPS Store in San Francisco. This is a rented box, and it's a type of address commonly used by scammers and spammers. That plus the use of Yahoo! Store, the lack of references in the mainstream news or in Google, and the questionable legality and/or logistics of this theoretical enterprise should send huge warning signals to anyone considering sending $264 to this site.
I looked into this very issue as a business venture over two years ago. It's completely illegal per the law referenced above. Sorry, folks. There is no Netflix for CDs. At least not in the United States. If it was allowed, I would have been somewhere in the middle of my first billion by now.
I thought of this idea about ten years ago but the federal law (posted above) was too clear so I didn't pursue it.
This is definitely a scam...the site is absolute CRAP! I say take the post down, or at least warn someone before they sign up and fall for it! This is the exact publicity they want...
BUY ALL THE MUSIC YOU WANT ...
KEEP WHAT YOU LOVE ...
RETURN WHAT YOU DON'T ...
MUSIC THE WAY IT ALWAYS SHOULD HAVE BEEN!
BUY, PLAY, SWAP ...
OngoBongo will begin billing your credit card for a monthly subscription fee of $21.95, plus any applicable sales tax, on the first day following the end of your free trial period. YOU MUST CANCEL YOUR SUBSCRIPTION PRIOR TO THE END OF YOUR FREE TRIAL PERIOD TO AVOID HAVING YOUR CREDIT CARD CHARGED.
Q: So what makes OngoBongo so special?
A: We strive to provide the best products at the best prices along with the best customers service, we believe that if you do not like what you purchased you should not have to pay for it...just return it for a 100% store credit and we will ship you any other CD of equal value for FREE.
Q: If I want to keep a CD what does it cost.
A: All of our CDs are priced at $9.95 per CD (multi disc 'box sets' are extra)
Q: Does OngoBongo offer songs in MP3 format or other types of "down loads"?
A: NO, at this time Ongo Bongo does NOT offer any down loads.
Q: Does OngoBongo rent music CDs?
A: NO, at this time Ongo Bongo does NOT rent music CDs to its customers.
NOW FOR A LIMITED TIME IF YOU PURCHASE AN APPLE IPOD MINI TOGETHER WITH A MEMBERSHIP IN THE ONGO BONGO "MUSIC LOVERS" CLUB YOU CAN GET THE APPLE IPOD MINI FOR ONLY $125!*
This is a 12 month prepaid membership in the Ongo Bongo "Music Lovers" service.
If purchased at the same time as an Apple iPod Mini ... the Apple iPod Mini is yours for $99 off our normal price (after mail in rebate).
*************************************
I think I have this figured out?? The website is not very clear. You sign up for a one year membership to get the ipod. You then buy cds for $9.95 each. Some will be new and some will be used. You get to listen to the music and if you don't like what you hear you can return the cd for a credit and then buy another. You can keep returning cds for a long as you are a member. It is like renting but you actually own the cd. You can return it at any time. If it works like they promote you can pay the $21.95 plus buy one cd for $9.95, listen to the entire cd, return it for a credit, get another cd, listen to it, return for a credit, ect. All for a standard monthly fee. Buy three and it's just like netflix. Get three cds, listen to them, return the three cds, get three credits, buy three more cds.
I didn't see the part about the first four cds will be included. OK.... you sign up for a $22 monthly fee, they send you 4 cds, you pay $9.95 the ones you like, send the rest back for a credit, and get more cds. If this is the case then it sounds like it would be legal since you in fact own the cd. Once you get tired of it or once the music gets old you send it back and get a newer cd. Sounds good....
I AGREE THIS SOUNDS LIKE A SCAM AND THE WEBSITE LOOKS VERY BAD. BUT... it does sound like a good idea. If anyone finds something simular let me know. You can buy used cds off of ebay and that's legal. You can send it back to the seller and get a refund/credit if not satisfied or if it does not work and that's legal. You can charge a monthly fee for a music buyers club that offers cds at a discounted price and that's legal. The seller can not be held responsible if the buyer makes copies. These guys had the right idea just not the right execution......
That's just my opinion.
i signed up for the service in august of 2004, and they have given me nothing, i have paid almost $300, and they change their email address weekly. it is the biggest scam EVER, protect yourself, plus there total assholes! email me at customercaredepartment@hotmail.com if u have any questions about this BULLSHIT service
what is going on with Ongo Bongo? This really does look like a scam and I don't know ANYONE who uses it. There's not even a phone # on the web site? Has ANYONE used this??
dont use this service...it is a scam...i lost my money and i am suing to get my money back
Danny Elfman ? what the heck does it matter what he says about renting CDs?
I happen to know who he is, he used to buy so called "black market" electronic equipment from a guy in Santa Monica (maybe still does) who got the newest electronic instruments directly from Yamano Music in Tokyo Japan, and other stores in Japan, which I used to deal with back in the 80s.
That way he got the latest and greatest stuff about a year or two ahead of the Manufacturer's Vendors here in the USA, and paid less probably.
How do I know?
I married the Japanese Salesperson his "connection" used to deal with.
That business really didn't sit well with ligitimate Resellers like Yamaha US and Roland US and whoever else he was "bypassing".
So who is he to be criticizing "Ongo Bongo", or anyone else in the business. He is as guilty of what he is blaming on others as they "are", according to what I see here.
Ya know, it always seems to be the guilty who blame the guilt on other people.
Give me a break!
An Ex-Elfman admirer,
GWD
P.S. I am providing a link to this Site to "Ongo Bongo" so that they can have their right to respond to these allegations. GWD