Ask Engadget: Best digital SLR?
By Peter Rojas 
posted November 18th 2004 5:39PM
posted November 18th 2004 5:39PM
Alright, time for another Ask Engadget. Last week Dan wanted to know what stuff people kept on their USB keychain drives, this week reader Martha B. has a question about digital cameras:
I have a small digital camera which I love (the Pentax Optio S), but for taking nicer pictures I'm still using a regular SLR film camera. It's starting to show its age, so I've been thinking about taking the plunge and buying one of those new digital SLR cameras, and am at a loss about how to choose one. Are the cheaper ones like the Canon Digital Rebel good enough, or is it worth spending the money for a more professional camera? What else should I look for? If I buy a Nikon will I be able to use all the lenses from my old Nikon SLR?
Any advice?
I like the Nikon D100. Currently retailing for $1500
Actually, the D100 is nudged down to $1400 with the Nikon rebates. That said, the D70 rivals or surpasses the big brother in many regards (along with the digital rebel). If you posted more specifics regarding your Nikkor lenses, we could be of greater help and could quickly tell you compatibility with the new Nikons.
(A few links to help)
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond70/
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond100/
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/
How bout the Canon Eos 1d Mark II for a meagre $7999
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos1dsmkii/
I have a Canon D60, and it has been great, over 30000 images, three deserts, several frozen lakes, innumerable family gatherings and still going strong.
I bought a Canon because my film SLR was a canon, so I could keep using my old lenses.
To be honest, I would by a Digi-SLR the same way I would buy a film SLR. find an SLR that does what you want ignoring the digital side of it. Unless you are a pro, or a very experienced ameteur, the difference between any two digital SLRs is going to be pretty unimportant.
So, if you have lenses from a film SLR camera, buy the same brand so you can keep using your old lenses, otherwise find an Digi-SLR that has the SLR features you want and then buy that.
the nikon digital slrs are quite good cameras, wether you should get a digital slr depends on wether it is impotant enough to have the added control that you will actually carry it with you. one point that does not get mentioned much is that they have a shorter delay between when you press the sutter release and when the picture is actually recorded.
nikon has not changed its lens mounts... ever. so even old manual focus lenses will work, on the d2. they will fit on the d100 and d70 bodies but because of the way the n70 body (which the d100 and d70 are based on) is set up the camera controls the aperature so any lenses made before 1990ish will not work.
most likely you have auto focus lenses so that should not be a problem.
Well when the 300D Digital Rebel from Canon first came out, i really loved it ... a DSLR for under $1000
But nowadays i favor the Nikon D70
Both have their pros and cons, but in my book the D70 is the winner over the 300D
I'm using a Canon 10D, which was recently replaced by the Canon 20D.
The most important factor in choosing an SLR is choosing lenses. Canon and Nikon have the widest variety of lenses available, so I would stick to those two families.
She should purchase the least expensive Canon (the Rebel) or Nikon (not sure which model it is) digital SLR because she doesn't know why she would need one of the more expensive ones. She can use the extra cash on more, better lenses, flash, and memory cards. It'll probably never happen, but if she does discover that the low-end model doesn't meet her needs, there will probably be a new, better, cheaper model on the market anyway. She can upgrade, and keep using the same accessories.
Anything beyond the Nikon D70 or Canon Digital Rebel is for professionals. If you're a hobbyist or consumer enthusiast and plunk down cash for a professional model, you'd be paying for features you're not going to use or need. Generally, you'd get faster flash synch, higher frames per second, better in-camera software, etc., but do you need this? The D70 is more than capable.
But should you feel the need to go all out and spend over $10k, wait for the Mamiya ZD MF digital camera.
Allthough I'm a huge Nikon fan (still using my 1969 F-model now and then…) I would suggest You have a look at the new Canon EOS 20D…
Anyway, www.dpreview.com has very good reviews of both Nikons and Canons.
Canon 20D is the best value right in DSLR.
i currently have the 1D mark II, and the 20D has been called the little brother to the 1D. It basically does 90%-80% to what the 1D does, in a much smaller size and at a 1/3 of the price.
You can get a digital nikon and put your old lenses on it but you might not be able to use all of the functions (auto functions, meter).
the digital rebels aren't a bad deal either for 999, you could probably find a deal cheaper than that too.
If you already are familiar with a Nikon camera I suggest you to try the D70. Currently I am taking photos with a F100 (analogue) and a D70 and I'm happy to find most of the controls, wheels, buttons etc. at a familiar place on my new camera. Of course you can use lenses from older Nikon SLR cameras, but unless a lens carries a "D" (for example "AF 28 f/2.8 D") on it, it might not comunicate properly with your digital camera, and measurement will not be as sophisticated as with new "DX" lenses. However, basic functions such as autofocus or aperture control should always work fine with the more recent builds. Furthermore I was told that older flash devices such as the SB-28 will not work any more with a "D"-Nikon. It is recommended to upgrade to a newer product such as the SB-800. Yes, taking photos with a D70 is serious fun that lasts for quite a long time (thanks to its long lasting battery), and no, I am not a Nikon representative.
If your investment in lenses is substantial and they're Nikkor AF/F Mount, D Type; then you should buy a Nikon. Lens technology is moving at a snail's pace compared to digital imaging, i.e. lenses hold their value and SLR bodies don't, so spend alot of money on lenses, and get a D100, or if you can afford it, maybe a D2h.
The Canon EOS 1D hit the market a couple years ago for over $7,000; now you can pick one up for less than $3,000. On the contrary, a lens you paid $1,000 for a year ago, is probably still worth $1,000.
The main differences between Pro DSLR's and Prosumer DSLR's (the D100 vs. the D2X, for example) is more usability than actual photo quality. With a Pro DSLR you get a high frame rate (8 FPS), faster autofocus, portrait shutter controls, and a weather resistant body that can really take a beating (and many, many more 'little' details that really matter to a pro photographer). Those are the kind of features you don't get in the prosumer models (D100, D70, Rebel, 20D).
And another very important thing to consider when buying a DSLR:
Unless you're shooting for the SI Swimsuit Edition, pixel count doesn't really mean much, because you'll be shooting in RAW mode, and a 4 megapixel RAW image will print WAY better and WAY bigger than, say, an 8 megapixel jpeg. And while many non-DSLR prosumer cameras (like the Sony F808) can shoot RAW (or TIF, or some non-compressed format), their buffers are so small you have to wait several seconds between shots (that's the real reason we all shoot jpegs with our little digitals.)
The Digital Rebel is an all around good camera. I love mine. If you are more geared towards the pro-sumer use, get the Nikon D100.
I own or have owned these Canon DSLR bodies: D60, 10D, 1Ds, 1D Mark2 and have a 1Ds Mark 2 on order.
If your Nikon lenses are auto focus, you will probably want to go with the D70 based on the fact that you won't have to buy more lenses. However, if they aren't, I would recommend switching to Canon. The current Canon models show much less noise when using a higher ISO which means you get nicer pictures with less available light. You may want to consider the 20D over the Digital Rebel (which is actually a stripped down 10D). For the extra money, you get more frames per second, better auto focus and about 2 more megapixels and a much larger buffer size (which means you can take more pictures in a row without having to wait for the camera to write to the card).
For a good side-by-side comparison of just about any digital cameras, check out www.dpreview.com
I am thinking about buying a Nikon D70 soon. This camera is most often sold without a lens. Can anyone recommend a good beginner lens to purchase for use with the Nikon D70?
Ritz Camera is selling a kit with a 18-70mm AF-S DX f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED Nikkor Lens. Is this a good one??
I recently purchased a Fujifilm FinePix S7000 for under $400 - I really love it for a budget "SLR" (which it technically is not). It does not have swappable lens but an adapter will let you add filters. It has plenty of manual settings and is a great camera for the amateur photographer looking to go beyond point and shoot. I have a gallery of pictures taken with this camera at: http://www.shimone.org/gallery/yyn2k4 - check out page two for some of the action shots. Go Team COY!
I am thinking about buying a Nikon D70 soon. This camera is most often sold without a lens. Can anyone recommend a good beginner lens to purchase for use with the Nikon D70?
Ritz Camera is selling a kit with a 18-70mm AF-S DX f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED Nikkor Lens. Is this a good one??
I'm with melanie (#12)
Does anybody have an opinion on going with one of the following options when purchasing a D70:
1. Buy the body/lens outfit that Nikon sells as a packaged deal
2. Buy the body and lens from the above outfit separately (possibly get a better deal?)
3. Buy the body and a lens other than the one that comes with the outfit
I own a D70 and I love it. You can use old Nikon lenses but be aware that the focal length gets multiplied by 1.6 because the chip's smaller than film. So it's a good idea to get the kit with the 18-70 lens.
I also have got a SB-28 flash and it generally works but pictures shot in full automatic mode are too bright. Newer flashes should work better.
The battery is good for 400-600 pictures. The shutter release lag is near zero.
You should really go and read the excellent detailed reviews on http://www.dpreview.com
The D70 will mate with all Nikkor F mount lenses, but will not meter at all with AI or AI-S lenses, not even centerweighted or stop-down metering. This is because they want you to plonk down 4 grand for the much more expensive D2H or D2X professional bodies that do support older lenses. Since some of Nikon's best lenses were AI-S lenses like the 58mm Noct-Nikkor, this is disappointing.
All Canon bodies can accept Nikkor lenses with a mechanical adapter like the Novoflex, and they provide stop-down metering.
In entry-level DSLRs, the best model seems to be the D70. In midrange models, the Canon 20D and the Fuji S3 Pro (Nikon doesn't have a contender). In professional models, the Canon 1D MkII and 1Ds MkII. The professional models have much better construction and weather-sealing, faster frame rates and better viewfinders, but are overkill for amateurs.
The real question you should ask yourself is whether you want an entry-level like the DRebel or a midrange camera like the 20D or D100. The D70 is actually halfway between, and effectively supersedes the D100 is obsolete in most respects. Don't overspend on your camera - unlike a film model, it will be obsolete within 12 to 18 months at the most.
I would definately recommend buying either a Nikon or Kodak so that you can use your existing lenses. Both Kodak and Nikon make great bodies.
Since you asked about the Rebel, it will make very nice images but, I think, the 20D is a worthwhile upgrade. It has much better resolution, faster response on power up, shutter click etc. and the high speed (800+ ISO) response is much better, meaning less noise. Actually high ISO perfrmance is one of the big hits against current Nikon bodies because they use CCD sensors compared to the CMOS sensors used in Canon.
The only other thing to keep in mind is that many people don't like the JPEG rendering tool in the Nikon and end up shooting in Raw only. The Canon is much better.
Good luck and keep in mind that you will NEED to use photoshop or other tools to "touch up" most images that come out of a DSLR. The most common tool you'll be using is Unsharp Mask also known as "USM."
I would go for the Coolpix 8800 (or 8700) over the D70
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Nikon/nikon_cp8800.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Nikon/nikon_d70.asp
Kap
It's been said already, and it's hard for me to admit, being a loooong time NIKON cheesehead, but right now the best priced/performing/supported camera is the Canon 20d.
I may not be a pro photog, but I've been following entry level DSLR's and reading EVERYTHING available for long enough that I've finally decided to give up my Nikon allegiance.
The D100 / D70 pair--while formidable--seem sadly to be related to a company that's not keeping pace with Canon. (For now??)
As engadget readers know better than most, technology is a quick chameleon, and who knows what Nikon has in store for 2005/2006.....
I was is in a similar situation: I had a digital point and shoot (Canon s200) and I was looking to upgrade to a dSLR. As soon as the D70 came out, I knew it was time to purchase. I bought one last May and I couldn't be happier. The camera rocks and so does the lens that comes with the kit. You won't regret going with a D70!
Well I may be a little biased since I work for Nikon, but I would suggest either the Nikon D70 or Nikon D100 to use with most of your existing lenses dating back to 1959.
The D100 and D70 have a standard "F" type Nikon lens mount, the same lens mount Nikon has used in practically every SLR we have ever made. Best performance and functionality will be achieved when "D" or "G" type CPU lenses ("G" lenses have no aperture ring and are marked as "G".) are used, but many other Nikon lenses and accessories can be used.
In general, any Nikon Autofocus lens will work fine on these cameras. Most older, manual focus, lenses can be mounted, but the camera's internal exposure meter will not work
Of course we would love for you to buy any of our newer Nikkor lenses, especially the fantastic fisheye 10.5DX Nikkor f2.8 or our amazing 70-200mm Vibration Reduction 2.8 lens that lets you hand hold at up to three stops slower than normal.
The D70 offers some cool features to help you set the camera quickly for portrait or sports for example. The D70 just won Popular Photography's Camera of the Year.
Both the D70 and D100 offer rebates when purchased from authroized Nikon dealers with a USA Warranty.
I probably will not be checking the board again tonight or tomorrow but will try to answer any follow up questions if I can.
Thanks,
Michael D. Rubin
Sr. Manager, Product & Software Technology
I recently upgraded to the Canon 20D from the d60, and I love it. Being that I shoot alot of sports like basketball and skateboarding, the ability to shoot 5 frames per second won me over. Taking such fast sequences with it makes it worth the 1400 bucks for me. Besides, I already have a few canon-mount lenses. I agree with the suggestion above to tailor your digi-SLR purchase to what features you want. That camera-shake prevention in the Nikon mentioned above sounds awesome, but since I almost always have a tripod or monopod with me it isnt really necessary.
I remember buying my first Nikon over 20 years ago. A friend (Pro Photographer) would not let me buy anything else. He was a photographer in the US Navy and then had his own architectural photography business. He swore by the stuff.
Over the years I have personally owned over 10 Nikon Pro bodies, the last 2 Digital. My advice is… don’t get bogged down in the Mega pixel/specification war. A good photographer can take a good picture with a 2.7 Mega pixel D1.
I looked at all of the alternatives but Nikon was the natural choice for me. I have never sold or traded a Nikon that didn’t work a good as it did the day I bought it.
After using a F100 for a couple of years, I finally purchased a Nikon D1X. Two days later I used it in one of the highest profile shoots of my life. I didn’t miss a shot! I bought a Nikon D100 for backup and it has become my main camera. I am sure that someday, someone will be able to make DSLR cameras that take better pictures but, I can’t imagine that based on the results that I currently get from these babies.
I've had a Nikon D100 for over 2 years now (yep early adopter) and it has been great. I made the jump from a 6006 body and the lenses that I had worked fine. I am biased toward Nikon, but the one thing that I think is a significant difference betwen the D70 and Cannon Digital Rebel (Nikon D100 too) is write speed to the CF card. I've found that since I can now take as many pictures as I want that I can fill the buffer with 4 RAW frames pretty often and have to wait for the buffer to clear before shooting again. The D70 appears to have 2-3X the write speed to the CF card (I use a Lexar 80X 2gb and SanDisk Ultra II 1gb). The Digital Rebel seems to have write speeds closer to that of my D100 (see www.robgalbraith.com, the CF database link). I don't shoot a lot of action, but I do take pictures of my kids soccer games and 4 frames don't go very far.
I've done a lot of research on this very topic for the same reasons. The Canon Digital Rebel is certainly the most respected camera of its price/type. Because the Canon EOS 20D was getting amazingly good reviews, I chose it and am very happy. You may want to invest in a variety of lenses to go with them. Unlike some other digital cameras, if you want to do closeup (macro) work and also have a long distance optical zoom, you may need to buy separate lenses. It won't be a simple point and shoot in that case. Be aware that the Canon 20D turns off the LCD screen when actually taking the photo - you can not set up a photo that way. If you are looking for something that does good macro and distance zoom without having to change lenses, you may want something less expensive than the Canon 20D, but the 20D will produce better quality photos for the "bother" of changing lenses.
I recently bought a Canon EOS 20D to upgrade from my Digital Rebel. The 20D is far superior to the Rebel for about $600 more. I love the performance of the 20D. I would recommend the 20D in your price range because it is relatively new and features the newest technologies from Canon (E-TTL II flash system, Digic 2 chip, EF-S lens compatibility, etc.)
Canon really has the upper hand on Nikon right now with its entire DSLR line.
I use the Fujii S2Pro everyday.
It has Nikkon lens mount (it's a nikkon body, so that part's real good).
The Nikkon D70 is a pretty sweet camera for 'prosumer' photography.
I've never been a fan of Cannons ccd's or lenses.
Go the Nikkon, you won't be dissapointed.
If you're on a limited budget get a 10D. Otherwise a 20D is proably the way to go. Both have much better noise control than the D70.
The D70 is a nice camera, but it's more of a Digital Rebel beater than a contender to the 10D or 20D. It also has really bad moire characteristics. It will be a rare event that moire will affect your photo, but when it does you'll be screwed.
Just for the record, Modern Canons use CMOS, not CCD. The lens debate has been beat to death. Put simply, if you have no current investment in lenses than there really isn't much of an issue. Both platforms have a wide array of lenses available that will likely suit your needs. If you need cheap (but decent) lenses I might give a slight nod to Canon with their new EF-s mount (Digital Rebel and 20D only).
i've got an old and obsolete Canon D30.
I love it. If I some spare change.I'd buy a 16-40L lens.
Amd then a ...
Ot's a disease. But it feels good.
You can probably find a used D30 for $400.
I am currently in the process of upgrading to a new digital camera and after much searching I've decided on the new Panasonic FZ20K. The reviews and user comments on this camera are outstanding.
It is 5.2 megapixels and has a 12x optical zoom with manual override and can also accept other threaded lenses. But MOST OF ALL, it has Image Stabilization.
Having just purchased a Canon Image Stabilized Binocular (8x25 IS) I was just blown away by what Image Stabilization could do to improve a view. I immediatly knew I had to get an IS Digital Camera.
Read the reviews - everyone is pretty impressed with the FZ20 - I can't wait to get mine.
BTW, The price can be found from $450 to $599. Amazone has it, via circuit city at around $530.
Thanks everyone for all of the info. Think I'm going with the D70.
I'm looking to upgrade to a D-SLR from my old Nikon 880, and was looking at the Nikon D70, but then saw the Canon 20D with 8MP, and am now seriously considering it. As a hobbyist and amatuer, not a professional, would the difference between 6 and 8 MP make a big difference (I do want to do some large prints) in your opinion? Thanks for any insight!
No one has mentioned the Pentax *istD (maybe they just can't type the name). I got a chance to try this out a couple of weekends ago and loved it. It had a nice, small camera body (not as huge as the D70 and EOS Rebel), felt solid, good controls (both a front and back dial for quickly changing Shutter and Aperture).
There is also the newer *istDS that has some feature upgrades, but aimed at a more consumer (vs. prosumer) market, at a reduced cost. Personally, I think I'm going to pick up one of these. Also, it's probably important to note that I don't have any legacy lenses/devices, so I'm starting out new in the SLR field (besides a rather old Vivitar).
I have the Nikon D70; this is a recent upgrade from my 4-year-old Sony DSC-S50. The D70 is fantastic. I researched for weeks before pulling the trigger, and found that the great majority of reviews put the D70 far ahead of the Canon Digital Rebel (my 2nd choice). The kit lens gives you great versatility out of the box, and you're already set if you own any Nikon glass.
In brief:
Nikon D70 > Canon Digital Rebel (300D)
Canon 20D > Nikon D70/D100
Canon 1-Series > Nikon Pro Series
Simple as that. At the end of the day it comes down to your budget.
I keep thinking that the D100 is really due an update at this point to make it competitive. Lots of new cameras from Nikon, but nothing was done to the D100. Anyone know when it might happen?
I have a bunch of Nikor glass also, but that new canon looks mighty sweet.
You shall also consider the Olympus E-1. A new line of DSLRs designed from ground up - a must have for a gadgeteer. Yes, you can check out the reviews & happy users in forum in the http://www.dpreview.com/ as well. Enjoy !!
When I bought the camera I got myself a compact flash card and went over to B&H and took some test shots to compare at home. I went for the Nikon D100 and I am happy with it. I am using lenses from my father from the sixties with no problem. I also own a F4 so I mostly use the D100 as a Polaroid back for test shots before I attach the 'real' back :)
Recently I got a chance to use a friends' D70 and got jealous. The differences are only marginal: For the D70 there is no cable release and they changed the fixture for the flash so that you have to purchase a special external flash.
On the upside though the D70 has a much faster chip and the lag that occurs after taking photos (at the highest RAW resolution) is greatly reduced plus the user interface has been improved by leaps and bounds.
It was reason enough for me to sell the D100 on Ebay. Even though the difference in price point is around $500, the D70 really is superior. That will probably change when the successor for the D100 is announced but if you are in the market now go with the D70.
Ps: iView media pro ( http://iview-multimedia.com/ )is a fantastic companion for any digital camera. Not affiliated with the company, just in love with the software!
Buying a DSLR makes sense for most serious amateurs:
They deliver a better image quality with more detail than any digicam, including the likes of Nikon 8700/8800 and Sony 828.
They have a viewfinder far superior to the digicams, making it so much easier to take good pictures.
Most of them (possibly except the Digital Rebel/EOS 300D) are much more strongly built than the digicams.
Most people end up buying Canon and Nikon, but the arguments for doing that are mostly totally irrelevant to amateurs. Take a look at Olympus. They have much fewer lenses than Canon and Nikon, but they are designed for digital cameras, and their range will give you a very nice line-up of high quality lenses that compliment each other very well. Their new E-300/Evolt will probably cost around USD 1,000 with a basic zoom, is strongly built and looks very promising.
Other brands to consider are Pentax and Konica-Minolta who make excellent cameras. You will not be able to use your old Nikon lenses with these cameras, but lenses that are urpose built for digital photography will mostly give you better results.
Can some of you Canon gurus say why the 20D is worth $600 more than Dig Rebel? Not doubting you, but I'd like to hear more...
The 20D has a much bigger buffer (you can take two dozen shots before you fill the cache - the rebel will only hold 4). The 20D is also louder, heavier (metal body), and generally faster. Personally, I have the Rebel, and I love it. But I'm sure I'll trade up to the 20D eventually.
You have two real choices:
A) Nikon D70
B) Canon 20D
--------------------
Reasons to choose the Nikon: Ergonomics are excellent (it feels good in the hands), good photo quality at lower iso (100-400), intuitive controls, good lenses, cheaper body.
Reasons to choose the Canon: Decent ergonomics, excellent photo quality at low->medium iso (100-800), Great&Cheap lenses.
--------------------
The Canon Digital Rebel is a decent camera that takes nice pictures, but it really feels like garbage in the hands. Those who argue otherwise do not know better. period.
As for myself, I initially purchased the D70 before selling it off to buy the 20D. I miss the feel of the Nikon body, but the picture quality is much silkier with the 20D, especially at higher ISO.
You'll be happy with either one. Just make sure you pick the right one for yourself the first time!
Check out DPreview.com for reviews, and discussion forums.
i own a D70 and i must say, it is a pleasure to work with. moving from my old nikon film camera to the d70 was an easy painless transition... the controls are laid out very similarly, the body is durable, and the quality is excellent (at the lower iso settings).
the canon 20D would also be a good choice, but since you have invested so much in nikon lenses and know the camera well, you'd prolly be better off getting the familiar nikon
I prefer Canon over Nikon not that I tried any Nikon product since the early 90s but because Canon lenses are faster in focusing, has softer color but still very sharp picture quality. I guess it is all personal preference but, I have seem many photographers at Olympic games with EOS 1DMk2 so I bought it. Nature Photographers seems to prefer Nikon or Olympus for sharper color.
The nikon D70 rocks, I highly recommend it. I used the D100 at the office, but fell for the D70. I use it exclusively now
And if you're on a tight budget, you can always turn your eos300d (digital rebel) into a Canon 10D with a bios hack. just search in google for:
digital rebel bios hack