Dell's turn! Kevin Rollins takes some swipes at the iPod and Mac mini
posted January 18th 2005 8:20AM
Last week it was Creative CEO Sim Wong Hoo dissing the iPod shuffle
as being "worse than the cheapest Chinese player,"
(ouch!). Now it's Dell CEO Kevin Rollins's turn to take a swipe at Apple, calling the iPod a "fad", that Apple isn't
"in the same league as Dell", and, well, we better just quote him in full:
It's interesting the iPod has been out for three years and it's only this past year it's become a raging success. Well those things that become fads rage and then they drop off. When I was growing up there was a product made by Sony called the Sony Walkman – a rage, everyone had to have one. Well you don't hear about the Walkman anymore. I believe that one product wonders come and go. You have to have sustainable business models, sustainable strategy…[The Mac mini] might take some here and there, but Apple's market share in the global computer business has really shrunk pretty far. Where they've been making success recently is not in the computer business, but in the iPod music business. So this might be an interesting new product but I'm not really believing this is going to turn the industry upside down.
He did try to hedge a bit and make it clear that Apple has done a nice job with the iPod and all that, but isn't
calling Apple out for focusing on digital music and not on selling a lot of computers sort of missing the point? PCs
are becoming commodities, and whether or not it's a flash in the pan (we're staying Swiss on this one), Apple is
obviously placing its bets on the mega-profitable iPod as the key to its future, not the Mac (notice how they're using
the iPod to drive sales of Macs and not the other way around? Notice how infrequently you see television ads for any
kind of Mac?). The big question is: when MP3 players more or less become commodities too, will people still pay a
premium for the iPod? Rollins obviously thinks time is on Dell's side with this one, and it'll be a few more years
before we know who is right.
[Via MacMinute]
You may not hear about the Walkman any more, but it propelled Sony into the bigtime. The iPod may not last forever, but it could do for Apple what the Walkman did to Sony.
Hmmmmm, this kind of reminds me of those kids in 4th grade who would insult you if they felt threatened by you...
The Walkman was perhaps a "fad" - but it was also a groundbreaking product that spawned an entire industry, inspired thousand of copycat products and still exists in the vocabulary today. I mean even the fact that he compares the iPod to the Walkman indicates the huge status and importance that the iPod will probably have.
If in 25 years people will still remember what an iPod is, then I think Apple will have done an incredible job. I doubt anyone will remember any of the other MP3 players on the market by name!
Disclaimer: I do not own a single Apple product!!
I love how the harshest criticism of the iPod come from the companies who have fared the worst in that category.
this quote makes Kevin sound like an idiot, i'm not a big apple fan, but comon you should not have used that walkman example...the sony walkman made sony a household name, just as the ipod has done for apple, kevin you moron who do you work for...and as for fad well lets just say every company out there would want a fad like that...
Wow, sounds like he's got bit of the short mans syndrom.
On the other hand immitation (Dell Jukebox) is the sincerest form of flattery.
In general, I think digital music players such as the ipod and zen lines could be considered fads because people are already predicting their kind of impending doom, or rather their assimilation into the mobile phone.
Im not saying that the music player market in general will get swallowed up whole by the mobile industry - there will still be a space for the devices that store 10's of gigs, but for the average person, why carry two devices around when you can just carry one? its a whole lot more convenient to take one instead of two (or more if you include all the other functions that the mobile has adopted - calculator, diary (ok not super good), radio, camera.. those just off the top of my head).
Possibly one of the aces that the *rest* of the industry holds vs. apple is that they are dedicated to the production of consumer electronics.. they have established digital audio player and mobile phone product lines, where i guess apple is confined, thus far to how their products fit together with the mac platform (the other manufactures have i guess, the luxury of leaving much of that up to microsoft, and making use of microsoft when it suits them).
Just my two cents..
The walkman was just coming of age when CDs hit the market. Tell me what the next big media swing will be for music after digital? I don't think the iPod will suffer the same fate, but as #3 pointed out the Walkman did make Sony a recognized name for electronics in America, and it appears the iPod will do the same for Apple.
so can we see some sales numbers for the dell knockoff iPod deal... whats its name anyways? yeah... exactly!
4,500,000 iPods sold in one quarter is no fad. Having the best selling online music store and best music jukebox (on the Mac and Windows) is no fad.
What Apple has is a rock solid product line (in hardware and software) and the marketing to back it up - there's a clear and consistent vision for all to see.
Is anyone surprised that Apple's competitors are whining and trashing them in the media, even as Apple is kicking their butts? What a load of crap.
Kap
Just p*nis envy. Michael Dell speaks:
1997: Faced with a similar question on what he would do if he were acting chief executive Steve Jobs, Dell chief executive Michael Dell said, "I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders."
2001: Q: What is the future of Apple Computer?
A: Silicon Graphics.
Q: That bad?
A: Maybe it's a little bit different. But if you look at proprietary computer companies, whether it's Digital [DEC] or Silicon Graphics or Apple, I think the fates are all relatively similar. We know how the movie ends. It's just a question of what happens in the middle. Apple has a very little customer base. If you look at the economics, it has been extremely hard for Apple to get a return on its R&D with a shrinking volume base. It's not to say that Apple's products aren't innovative or cool, but the economic factors here are so overwhelming, it's very hard for them to swim against that tide.
Anyone dissing the Walkman should check their facts a little better.
The Walkman came out around 1980, TWENTY YEARS LATER they were still the best way to get portable music (along with the Discman), and only faded off the scene because Sony the publisher got in the way of Sony the electronics company grabbing on the mp3 revolution.
If Apple can make iPod the premier digital music player for the next 15 years, they would have exceeded anyones expectations for success.
the walkman only disappeared because CD's replaced cassette tapes.
whats going to replace digital?
Ok, so he is comparing to a product (moreless the name) walkman, which did die when the cd came about, but sony still uses that name, ie their portable cd players are walkmans. Who is dell to insult anyone, their "quality products" tend to blow, in my house i there are 5 laptops, 3 dells and 2 ibm, and one dell doesnt work at all, another the screen is shifty, and the third is new, but the ibm are both 2+ years old and still running strong.
Furthermore, dell calls the ipod a fad, but didnt they make an imitation of it?
Yeah, the iPod is a fad. Right. Apple is losing market share. Who cares? Last I heard, Apple was profitable. They're making money. They're inventive. They take chances. And, they dish out one hell of an OS and some decent affordable computers for the bucks. Is there anyone who doesn't know what an iPod is? Is there anyone who doesn't remember what a Walkman is? If they're both fads, they sure as hell hit a home run in the brand recognition department.
What is it with Dell and Apple, anyway? Predictably, every few years someone from Dell will come out dissing Apple and mocking them for attempting to be innovative while smarter companies (i.e. like Dell) simply follow the market. Apparently there's a corporate culture at Dell in which Apple is the enemy, when in fact they should treasure companies like Apple that come up with the ideas that Dell's profits are based on. Dell's market plan is to exploit new markets that were discovered through intensive R&D efforts by un-Dell-like companies. Dell needs Apple, but no one at Dell seems to realize that.
Ipod is a fad and is gonna die out sooner than you think! Walkman lasted for a good 15 to 20 years. The brand im saying,I doubt the ipod will last that long. Sony will come back. Dell is right, all they need are gay unessecary looking computers and they will be ok...
i own an ipod<--dont use it, got it for free to know what the big deal is its not the sony hd3 is better
"the walkman only disappeared because CD's replaced cassette tapes.
whats going to replace digital?"
Nothing will replace digital, but stuff will replace Hard drives. Either satalite radios or remote music storage. Where you can access your music through a large wi fi network and in Phili.
The rest of the music device industry is clearly worried... and Steve Jobs will continue to go from strength to strength, building one step at a time, starting with wiping out the flash player market. Maybe next, the home media centre market.
Note: I was not an apple fan till I got an iPod mini last year!
Apple has struck a cord with the most important demographic out there...children and teenagers. As they purchase music from iTunes Music Store, they are locking themselves into the iPod. I must admit, Apple's plan is brilliant and perfectly executed.
The iPod will dominate for quiet some time, or at least until mobile phone batteries last much, much longer. The mobile phone is a threat but not until the batteries can handle it.
I have to agress with Kevin Rollins. Even though I own a mini an love it I know that the success of the ipods is not going to last more than 3 years more, unless apple start paying attention to the market. The ipods are great but they are overpriced and have problems concerning the battery. If apple don't start providing more functions and features consumers might start buying products from other manufaturers. The ipod suffle was a dissapointment, seens that Uncle Jobs is too confident that we consumers will buy his products just becasue they come from apple. Only the future can tell how it will go for apple in the next 3 years.
And how many automobile manufacturers are rushing to put Dell Computers or MP3 players in their automobiles?
A big difference here is Apple is an innovator. When the iPod becomes irrelevant, all players of this kind will be irrelevent. We'll have wireless access to our music collection at home, or whatever.
But this nonsense coming from Dell and Creative only shows what little creativity does to people. It turns them into whiners and losers who can't compete, so they tear down the one company that's blowing them out of the water. At best rationalization. At worst, they're idiots. I'm guessing it's more the latter.
Anyone who thinks any player is better than the iPod came into the discussion with a foregone conclusion. Nothing touches the iPod for functionality, quality, and for just being way cooler than anything else out there. Not to mention easier to use, and that cuts to the heart of what people want to do with their music (and digital books).
I remember when Michael Dell announced they were the innovators of WiFi. They were the first to include it in their computer. Oops, Apple was a full year ahead of them! What losers. Dell stands for mediocrity and the mindset of the masses. Apple stands for quality. Of course the mediocre people are going to hate the ones who stand for quality. It makes them feel inadequate. It's just surprising how passionate Dell is about slamming Apple. If only they were half as passionate about making computers...
hello kids. "When I was growing up, there was a product made by Sony called the Sony Walkman ..."? and "it propelled Sony into the bigtime"? and "the sony walkman made sony a household name"? and "the Walkman did make Sony a recognized name for electronics in America"?
I think you're all a little wet behind the ears, and that includes Rollins. Way back in the dark ages when I was growing up, in 1959, my older brother got *a transistor radio* that fit in his pocket and ran on batteries and had a little speaker and a headphone jack. It sold for US$27. It was red plastic and about the size of a man's dress shirt pocket and it was all the rage. Sony was in America and making a name for themselves long before most of you were born. And they're still here. Yeah. I'm *that* old.
Somebody needs to tell these CEOs that when you call out the competition, you're acknowledging your inferior position. Dell "Isn't in the same league as Apple" I couldn't agree more. When are you gonna catch up, Dell?
Oh god, yet another neocon greedy businessman who's afraid of competition. Well guess what Dell, your laptops and desktops have been continually getting worse over the last few years, and now I will recommend to my employer that we switch to a different PC vendor.
The iPod may be on top now, but it still doesn't have so much of the market that it's place couldn't be usurped by another player. Given all the resources rival companies are putting into making an "iPod killer," it will only be a matter of time.
How weird is it when the CEO of a 40 billion dollar company continually feels the need to to call out a much smaller company?
Perhaps it is because try as they might, Dell just can't shake their shitty image and he pines for the luster of a simple little 12 billion dollar (2005) company?
Just as ratface said, I too do not own any Apple products so I am not a snow blinded apple fanatic. However instead of critising apples products they should try to learn from Apples success in the market. They dont have as meny features but they are designed very, very, very well. They are georgious and easy to use, aparently people dont care if the battery dies in a year. Dells forey in to the MP3 market, as well as most other companys, lack a simple design and fluidity that the ipod has. Rollins and Hoo are both correct in the fact that the new ipod shuffle has no new features, no screen and is essentially a usb key drive that plays mp3s. There is nothing new in that, but still people rush out and buy three. I dont know anyone who owns three Dell DJs. All the other companys should focus on where Apple has been successfull instead of why they think Apple will fail.
Hello! Haven't we been here before? And how appropriate to compare it to the Walkman, whose is still used to describe CD players of different makers. It's the icon of it's industry, as is the iPod. And the iPod comes with it's own culture, good or bad, it's true.
Booyaa!!
As the big gorilla would've said, "...it's all about accessories, accessories, accessories!" You can go to any department store (or any store at that) and buy some piece of equipment to hang off your iPod. You've got Belkin, Altec Lansing, and even Bose milking money off this thing. And just like Microsoft, when it comes time to upgrade my iPod, I'm going with the market leader for songs and accessories.
Proud iPod owner since 'O-Trizzay!
(2003)
Relax people, even Steve Jobs disses his competition. It is the way CEO's egos work.
http://xpdigitalmedia.com/2003_10_12_archive.htm
The guy's a moron. The Ipod IS a walkman. Sony walked away from the portable audio player market when they moved away from their core compentency and into content. Then they let the tail wag the dog, hobbling their own personal audio players with Atrac rather than mp3. Only in the past few months have they realized how wrong they have been.
The personal audio player is no fad, and if Sony hadn't goofed, we would have traded in our cassette Walkmans for an MD Walkman, and then a few years ago moved up to HD and flash Walkman players, and Jobs never would have had a shot. But Morita stepped aside, and Idei is no Morita (and he's no Jobs, for that matter.)
I find it greatly entertaining how these codgers in suits get up behind a big podium and go on and on tell a bunch of other suits about how the iPod sucks because blah blah heavy blah blah battery blah blah formats blah store blah blah blah.
They are talking to their shareholders. It's aplogetic and it's damage control. Maybe Creative should have thought about making a quality sound card back when it was important to them to do so rather than stretch out into this consumer electronics space where they pump out complete crap save for 1 or 2 decent products. Now they have all but lost their core market due to on-board sound.
So Dell's not impressed? I was so unimpressed with my last Dell, that I now use a PowerBook for my daily computing needs.
This is just chest-thumping on the part of Dell. It shows that they're scared that Apple might actually cut into their customer base.
Engadget,
The reason they use the iPod to hock the new iMac, is because the iPod is cheaper..
This is their strategy..
99 cent songs-->$99-599 iPod-->$499-2999 Mac ---> $2999-4999 Xserve
Using this strategy, all they have to do is keep pluggin away at that initial 99 cent price point, and iPod sales will soar, Mac sales will soar, Xserve sales will soar..
They realized that before the iTMS, the cheapest Mac they sold was 800 bucks! That really cuts the exposure to Apple products..
You get the idea.. I'm borrowing the PARLAY idea from Gruber, the Daring Fireball guy
In conclusion.. it would be VERY WRONG.. to think Apple is abandoning the high end.. or the Mac.. it's just found a new way to promote the high end, and the Mac.
It is all about image. Dell and Creative know that knocking on the iPod makes headlines, and if they can continue to make those headlines, even if the articles that follow (much like these comments) make the headlines completely irrelevant, they've already won. It isn't about turning the iPod into an instant failure. It is about the systematic dissemination of false or misleading (or just unknowable) information that eventually sticks. I don't want to bring politics in, but look at the last presidential race: the Swift Boat Veterans were saying things that were untrue by every official document available. Alas, it didn't matter - Kerry had to fight these untruths taking face time away from his actual message. If Dell and Creative can manage the same thing, to take Apple off the ball for even a second, they can get their chance. It is all about perceived image.
I don't even like Apple, and I still think this guys a moron.
how is the dell dj a copy of the ipod. because it has a screen and a hd. Uhh, guys, creative beat Apple to the punch by several years with their jukebox series of players. Yes they were much bigger, but they were the first of its kind, and since then, creative's players have improved immeasurably. If you guys look at players like the zen micro, this has creative amazing firmware (best in the industry, I am using it on my zen xtra and it simply rocks), with intuitive controls (the only bad point of the zen xtra). It is of course priced cheaper than the ipod mini, with more storage, more features, better battery life, ... need I go on. The end of the ipod's reign is much sooner than most people think.
The iPod is indeed a great device...a real winner from Apple.
However, we should keep in mind that the Walkman eventually became commoditized...in other words, Sony succeeded so much that every manufacturer had their own line, and prices were driven down considerably.
Indeed, the only way the iPod market will continue to grow past a certain point is by lowering the price. That is probably one reason for the new iPod...it allows for a lower price point, but on a much lesser product that costs less to produce. Better for Apple than dropping the price on its signature iPod....ie, the "real" iPod.
So, sure, Apple has a huge hit on its hands, but the key will be how long they can sustain this.
The iPod is indeed a great device...a real winner from Apple.
However, we should keep in mind that the Walkman eventually became commoditized...in other words, Sony succeeded so much that every manufacturer had their own line, and prices were driven down considerably.
Indeed, the only way the iPod market will continue to grow past a certain point is by lowering the price. That is probably one reason for the new iPod...it allows for a lower price point, but on a much lesser product that costs less to produce. Better for Apple than dropping the price on its signature iPod....ie, the "real" iPod.
So, sure, Apple has a huge hit on its hands, but the key will be how long they can sustain this.
Its amazing how dell is giving apple and its products weight and "airplay".... Its only missing, they bring out Print advertisments with visualized arguments: "Why not to buy apple products...." ( as Microsoft did with Open Source Software / Linux )
For me the market share of a company doesnt define its importance nor quality of its products. But dell is always one step behind apple in terms of innovation. And i bet they are going to release a mini dell soon. ( But first they let apple explore the market )
Disclaimer: I have a Powerbook 12" and a Dell Dimension 8200
For those in love with Apple, Rollin's statement seems insulting.
However, from a business perspective, he makes a lot of sense.
DAP's will eventually become commodities. When they do, people will no longer pay a premium for the iPod. It's just like the Walkman. Sony eventually had to lower its prices to be in line with the competition. Sure, the early adopters of the iPod will still pay a $50 to $100 premium for the iPod now, but imagine when companies like Dell can produce an iPod clone for under $100...and don't think that time isn't coming.
Apple right now has not been a company to compete effectively in mass markets for commodity technology, like Dell. So the question is, do they adapt to what they have not been good at, or do they create the next killer product?
Rollins from Dell simply was observing the truth.
What are all these windows guys so afraid of anyhow. They love to tell us how Apple has no market share and is no threat to them, yet they continue take the time to dis Apple, copy their products, and plagiarize their ads. They arent trying to convince themselves, not us. Is their blatant fear this transparent to pc users?
Does it make sense to compare Apples to sour Oranges(Dell)? :)
http://sudhakar81.blogspot.com
http://wirelessmaniac.blogspot.com
Wow, Really? so if the iPod is a fad what's the dell digital jukebox? If you feel that strongly about a product why would you try to copy it.
Looking forward to the release of the Dell mini Mr. Rollins!!!!
Not to sound like an echo, but the "Walkman" comparison is idiotic. The Walkman was simply a fad? It lasted a generation! Sony Walkman definitely had competition, but it was an industry leader and a household name until technology changed and CDs were the craze. (Even then, CD Walkmen or Discmen were pretty popular.) Rollins might as well call IBM and MS-DOS "fads" because they're no longer the big thing... But I'm sure there was a point at which Dell was envious of IBM's success.
A lot of posts to read there :s
But further to a comment that "the CD replaced the Walkman" I disagree. The CD could never replace the Walkman (initially) as it had a massive drawback (possible two)
1) You couldn't record your own music onto them, you had to take lots of albums or singles to suit your needs
2) Because of the size of the CD, they are so big that they aren't nearly as portable as a tape playing Walkman.
If anything replaced tape it was Minidisc. Recordable, virtually CD quality and small.
Super audio CDs never really took off, neither did DVD-audio; CDs pretty much epitomised what ppl wanted to use to play/buy music [or at least record] from.
I honestly can't see what the next major step in term of portable audio will be.
People already have so many hours of music available in very small music players. The only improvements could really be in terms of quality (Apple lossless?), battery life (it'll come when it comes) and size (100GB players the size of a deck of cards?).
I really wouldn't like to be the next company that tries to push a new digital audio standard on a market perfectly happy with its present state! :)
Apple is NOT in the same league as Dell: Apple actually makes GOOD products, well designed, without too many production flaws, etc...
I believe the next step will be a new flash memory paradigm. Player will be storage independant allowing you to purchase 10GB Flash cards and 20 GB flash cards, at that point all you are focusing on is the UI.