Engadget investigates: Is it "iPod shuffles" or "iPods shuffle"?

It took us a few days of harrassing Apple's PR department, but we were finally able to answer one of the most burning questions of the past seven days: Is it "iPod shuffles" or "iPods shuffle?" Here's a transcript of our conversation:

US: Thanks for calling us back. We have a really important question for you. How do you pluralize "iPod shuffle?"

APPLE: Like in a sentence?

US: Yeah, like would you say "iPod shuffles" or "iPods shuffle?"

APPLE: Huh. "iPod shuffles." It's "iPod shuffles."

US: Are you sure? Would you mind double-checking, because people do say "attorneys general" and not "attorney generals." We don't want to offend William Safire and write the wrong thing.

APPLE: Let me ask someone here. [Puts us on hold for a minute.] Yeah, it's "iPod shuffles."

US: Thanks!

[juliuss @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Makes sense. Think about any person or thing that has a verb (or noun derived from a verb) in their name...

"Door stop" plural is "door stops" not "stops door."

You example of "attorneys general" is an example of an adjective and a noun, not a verb/noun pair. This would be more applicable if the name was something like "iPod White." This name plural could be "iPod White" becoming "iPods White."

Just realized... I should be working! :-S

[juliuss @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

When I said...

"Door stop" plural is "door stops" not "stops door."

I clearly meant...

"Door stop" plural is "door stops" not "doors stop."

Ok, for real now, back to work...

[Stephen @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Hilarious. I do love that they put you on hold for double-checking.

[uwjames @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I'm detective John Kimball!

[Brad @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Wow. I have to admit that when I posted my snide comment here:

http://engadget.com/entry/1234000707027235/#comments

I meant it as a joke (a la the Onion article that Brian posted as a follow-up). I had no idea it would spark a head-scratching debate.

Kudos to engadget and its crack diction-investigation team!

[arkowi @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

There was a comedien back in the day that did a funny bit about his mom pluralizing the wrong words..."I'm gonna go to McDonald and have some french fry and a shakes."

[Cap'n Ken @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

But what do you call a group of iPods? A Poddle? You've got more answers to seek, Pete.

[dig dug @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

no, the name of the product is ipod shuffle. Shuffle is not an adjective, its part of the name. Saying "ipods shuffle" makes it incomplete because there is no predicate like "music". You could say i bought three Ipods shuffle music, but i think ipod shuffle is a little easier.

[Tom @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

WTF? Seriously, this is the sort of thing that makes people think that iPod users are obsessive, close-minded wierdos. Let's have some balance in the reporting, yeah?

[cDub @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

this was one of the most useless posts on engadget ever

[daniel @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Wow, Tom, good to know there are always people around who won't get the joke! I thought this was funny. I can't speak for them, but it seems to me like Engadget was making fun of Apple's inane names for their products.

[George @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I love this blog - I can't believe you actually called Apple and they actually spent the time to get the answer...

[Kurt Ramsauer @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

iPods Mini? iPods Photo? There's something vaguely academic sounding about those.

[Brad @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I guess this is what the new intern will b e for...making calls such as this.

[Kevin @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

That's a fun call. Recently the word "iPod" was used heavily by spammers.

[MdSalih @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

As humourous as that is ment to be... it seems a tad more on the stupid side :P

My 2 cents :)

[Jesse @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I'm going to go with Ipod Shuffli like fungi, octopi, etc......

[Richard Anderson @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Not "iPod sufflers"?

[rhizopod @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Well, I for one, do not agree. Technically, it should be iPods shuffle. You have to think about what you pluralizing... only the subject noun should be pluralized, not any non-noun qualifiers. For example, multiple "attorneys general" is correct because we are talking about a multitude of attorneys, who have the qualifier of "general". Similarly, "door stops" is correct.. because "stop" is being used as a noun. (There are multiple stops, not multiple doors). So, technically, the Apple rep gave the wrong answer. The correct pluralization is "iPods shuffle", as shuffle is simply an adjectival qualifier of iPod, which is the noun that must be pluralized.

[Nick @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Haha too funny

[Michael @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I agree with Jesse

[Ethan @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I think this was an awesome post - I love this grammar shit. I bust out that 'eats, shoots and leaves' joke every chance I get.

And for the lowbrow among us, remember that it's "Carl's Jr" not "Carl Jr's". So it wouldn't be "my ipod shuffle's case" but "my ipod's shuffle case". Hm. Or would it? perhaps time for another call to the fine marketing folks at Apple.

[Marc Orchant @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Quote: "this was one of the most useless posts on engadget ever"

Yo cDub... lighten up dude! I almost squirted beverage via nostrils over this one. Thanks Peter!

[Vanilla Spice @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

rhizopod is incorrect. By his theory, multiple LC475s would be "Macintoshes LC475" when it is clearly "Macintosh LC475s" - the reson being that the entire "Macintosh LC475" is the noun, just like "iPod Shuffle" is only a noun, and NOT a noun/adjective pair.

Five Toyotas Celica ? No, Five Toyota Celicas.
Two Corollas Sportivo ? No, Two Corolla Sportivos.

One iPod Shuffle. Multiple iPod Shuffles !!! The entire "iPod Shuffle" is the noun !!

PS Yes this might be inane, but that doesn't mean it isn't fun !

[Rex the Strange @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Rhizopod, I think that while most of what you say is correct, your conclusion is wrong. The proper name of a single device is an "iPod Shuffle" in entirity. Therefore, the whole must be pluralized making it "iPod Shuffles." Unless the Apple folks meant the "shuffle" part to be a qualifier, as you suggest, in which case you would be correct. However, it seems that the Apple representative implicitly stated that the "shuffle" part is not a qualifier and part of the proper name. Of course, it's possible that the guy's a moron, too.

[Dithermaster @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Really? Our documentation guy told me were not allowed to pluralize product names. So, I'm guessing the correct answer is really "iPod shuffle music players" or something like that.

[Julian @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

It doesn't say "iPod Shuffles" anyplace at all on the website that i can find

[Mike @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Here's the thing...you were probably talking to some flunky. When I worked at Starbucks Corporate, they'd put people on hold, take a few sips of coffee, crack a joke, then go back and make something up. I think your "mystery" is not yet solved. How do you know that answer came "from the top?"

[whitlock @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Heh, anyone will believe the helpdesk! It's because the helpdesk can produce miniturized, but direct, Reality Distortion Fields. You've been suckered!

[Ant @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

who cares how you pronounce it??

[Brandon @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

ford focuses

or

ford foci

[Brett Favray @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

/*

Do not eat iPod shuffles

*/

[Shane @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

The Carl's Jr. example is incorrect. That one is all wrong to start with.

As "Carl's Jr." is written, it is possessive (i.e., someone named Carl owns something called a "Jr."). Wrong example. The apostrophe is just plain wrong. If it's intended to be plural, that isn't the way to punctuate it.

As for the Shuffli, I'm going with iPod Shuffles. Why?

- Shuffle is not an adjective, people. It's a verb. It qualifies nothing. It's an action (to shuffle), so it's a verb

- Also, in context, the word "shuffle" is being used in a trademarked product name, to create a single proper noun, "iPod Shuffle". It's not an iPod, it's an iPod Shuffle. And, without iPod, "shuffle" is nothing but a verb. So, we have to pluralize the whole she-bang.

iPod Shuffles.

Or, as Dithermaster noted -- when you get past the theorizing -- it will ACTUALLY be "iPod Shuffle music players".


Shasta
www.wad-o-spirit.com

[Ces @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

It's like cul-de-sac pluralized as culs-de-sac! Well, sort of.

[Whiplash @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Yeah, I think you really let us down on this story. I think if you really played hard ball and investigated this story like a true hard nosed journalist would, you would find that Apple probably is going to go with "iPod Shuffle music players". Just like the recent Tivo story where you're not allowed to say "I Tivo'd that movie". Call them back right now and don't post again until you hear from Steve himself.

[TK @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

iPod users are getting dumber by the day.

ie. Jennifer Garner's playlist

[AoC @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

The reason 'attorney general' is pluralized into 'attorneys general' is because it is a French legal term, which entered into English back in 1066. We somehow decided to keep the pluralizing rules, though.

So for it to be 'iPods shuffle,' Steve-O would need to say that, though the iPod Shuffle was designed by Apple in California, it needs to be made plural by the French.

[Ben Dummett @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I'm a fan of the faux-latin way. iPod Shuffla. Though iPod Shuffli comes a close second.

[Cambob @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I'm glad to see that engadget is trying to improve its writing. I often have to stop and re-read sentences due to bad grammer. Don't give up guys.

[mike s. @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

it's a blog, so I can deal with a little sloppiness here and there, but what I find ironic is no. 38's complaints about engadget's "grammer". It's actually spelled "grammar".

[Max @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

How many of you actually have one?

Reminds me of listening to all the virgins in the high-school locker room.

[Daniel @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

this post totally made my day, thanks!

[AznFX @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

@#31
foci is the real word (used only in math though)

i agree to both that this is a useless post and that it is funny

Shuffli is stupid, there is no -us

iPod Shuffles and iPods Shuffle, who cares?
just use iPod Shuffle when using plural like all the tms i know
i.e. iPod Shuffle music players like said above

[cH @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

And I just remember a friend telling me that it's shuffle with small 's' and not capital 'S' as in Shuffle. Is it?

[Konrad @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

On the right column, midway through, under the heading "My iPod shuffle warranty has expired. What are my service options?" you will find a reference to iPod shuffleS.

http://www.apple.com/support/ipodshuffle/service/faq/

[ScottB @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

"iPod Shuffles" is good because by a similar token, their new computer should be pluralized as "Mac minis". Imagine "macs mini". If heard that, I would think the speaker couldn't make up their mind. Which is it? Max, or mini?. =)

[Cambob @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Thanks for the lesson in spelling Mike S. I guess I'm just a jerk for pointing out that the writers at engadget employ poor grammar while accidentally spelling grammar wrong. Is that irony? It's not really ironic since my point was about grammar, not spelling. Had I made an issue about the spelling on engadget it would have been ironic.

[Handsome Jon @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I don't like either options!

How about 'iPod Shuffle' being plurel for its self?

I bought 4 iPod Shuffle yesterday.

ehhhh?

[WheelSee @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

had hitting journalism right here...keep up the good work!

~wC

[Michael @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I'm still unclear whether the "s" in "Shuffle" should be capitalised or not.