TiVoToGo goes slow

Scarily enough the ancient 14 hour TiVo we have kicking around Engadget HQ is way too old for TiVoToGo, but Obvious Diversion had the good sense to buy their TiVo in the 21st century and thus were able to take full advantage of the new feature which lets you copy shows stored on your TiVo over to your PC. Unfortunately, they discovered the hard way that while the software was easy to install, actually copying a one hour TV show from their TiVo to their laptop took a lengthy five hours. The culprit? The TiVo box is connect to their home network over 802.11b WiFi, which made the transfer rate murderously slow compared with what it would have been over Ethernet, and incredibly enough TiVo doesn't yet offer any drivers for 802.11g adapters, something which would help ameliorate the problem. To be fair, transferring any kind of video between two different machines over 802.11b is going to be slow—it's not like this is a TiVo-specific problem—but if TiVo is going to pitch their DVRs as digital entertainment hubs, they've got to realize that Ethernet simply isn't always an option. Support for 802.11g has got to be around the corner, but here's an idea: save everyone a lot of trouble and just build WiFi directly into the boxes.

[Via TVHarmony]

[Matthew @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I don't get why people are complaining, Wifi isn't designed for transferring files, (even with 802.11g u might get 1.5MB/sec), compared to 10/100, where i consistently get 9-11MB/sec. (Thats megabytes per sec).

Do the work and wire an ethernet cable.

From tivofaq.com: "All series 2 TiVos support USB 2.0, with the exception of the earliest models." and the drivers actually do use USB 2.0 where available". Get your facts straight!

[Michael Pate @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

When I saw the headline, I assumed it was referring to the software update. As far as I can tell, the January 3rd announcement was only to stop them from looking like complete idiots at CES and to try and extricate themselves from the Wired Vaporware List. I would say they should fire the CEO over this, but apparently, they already had plenty of reasons.

[Jeffsters @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

If I was the design lead for Tivo Series 3 it would have FireWire 800/400, and 10/100/1000 Ethernet as well as 802.11 b/g. This would allow for maximum use and versatility. We're looking at transferring gigabytes of data here and if it's going to be a major part of the digital hub it can't be such a pain the butt to do this. I have resorted thinking about getting the DVD-R combo unit and using the DVD to move the video to my Mac. Having Tivo suck up the shared bandwidth on my 802.11g wireless network is not cool. I'd rather just plug my PowerBook in (FW800) and dump the video I want. Maybe some day!

[Bryce @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I have a Series 2 with a Linksys USB2 100Mbps Ethernet adapter. It seems to be throttling based on the quality setting � "Basic" at 4Mbps, +1Mbps for each step up.

For the WiFi folks, WEP seriously slows down older 802.11b gear.

[aaron @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Only some tivo boxes have usb 2.0 hardware suport. A series2 box will have usb 2.0 hardware suport if the TSN starts with "2". Maybe others too.

[Terrance Cohen @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

When I bought a new TiVo, I transferred my saves from the old one. I got a little less than 4X realtime for shows at best quality. I had no complaints about that transfer rate.

[Jeremy Holloway @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

When the Series2 units debuted, the USB ports were 1.1. TiVo took a lot of criticism for this on the tivocommunity.com forms for being short sighted. If my 80 hour Series2 had USB 2.0 ports, it would not take 1 1/2 hours to transfer an hour show to my computer. Sure, USB ports tax the CPU's processing power (unlike Firewire), but that cannot explain the speed deficiency.

[Justin Gruenberg @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Like #12 said, you probably have USB 2.0 ports if your TSN starts with 2. And now, they're used.

It just seems crazy to me that an hour per minute is the best the box can do. I've moved entire DVDs across my network in no time at all, but thats comparing a full blown computer to a specialized device. Just seems like poor planning.

[Dan @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I thought you guys were smarter then this. No matter what you are limited to the bandwith of USB 1, not ethernet or b/g

[Justin Gruenberg @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Dan: you didn't read the above posts. According to TiVoBill (who posts on the TiVo Community Forums), the 7.1 upgrade (aka TiVoToGo) has the USB2.0 drivers. That (according to TiVo) is not the bottleneck anymore.

[Michael @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

My TiVo updated this evening. For a regular quality 1 hour program, it took around 28 minutes. I can live with that.

[Jeremy Holloay @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Justin, #21, ask TiVoBill (who I believe works for TiVo) to confirm or deny that the earlier Series2 units only had USB 1.1 ports. I have the 7.1 (TiVotoGo) update as of last Thursday and it takes 1 1/2 hours to transfer an hour long show from my TiVo to my PC on my 100Mbps ethernet network. That is not USB 2.0 performance by a longshot. I'm also noticing that prerecorded shows viewed through the TiVo on the television are freezing up the first 30 seconds of the beginning of the program. I'd also recommend that the Series3 uses some type of MPEG4 (Quicktime, Divx, AV-1) encoding to squeeze even more programming onto the same sized hard drives. Considering how cozy TiVo is getting with Microsoft, you'd think they'd sign an intellectual property licensing agreement with a nice $500 million cash infusion from Microsoft to implement Windows Media encoding on future TiVos in exchange for a free pass for past IP infringement by Microsoft (UltimateTV) as well as current and future transgressions (Microsoft Media Center Editions). In comparison, TiVo certainly isn't letting Echostar's DishNetwork get away with IP infringement. Maybe they can turn their legal guns on Comcast, TimeWarner, Charter, and the settop box companies like Motorola and Diego for their DVR wares. And judging from the photos from the Comcast 2003 annual report (unless its changed since then), the Comcast DVR unit has a USB 1.1 port on the front panel...what a POS...

[Duncan Blackthorne @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

In the last couple days I also received the v7 software upgrade and while I'm pleased that they didn't cripple the unit according to some of the rumors I've been hearing, and I'm pleased at some of the new features, TiVoToGo falls short of the mark in my opinion. It shouldn't take 22 hours to transfer 26 half-hour programs! I'm using wired 100Mbps ethernet, not WiFi, too. It's only transferring at 500kBps, 1/20th of the ethernet capacity, and less than half of USB v1 capacity. Very below average, in my opinion, that it takes longer to transfer over ethernet than it does for me to play it back as video and capture it with video capture.

[john radi @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

You should check your connections. I have 802.11b on my laptop AND tivo and I'm able to transfer video over at real time rates. If I let it buffer for about 5 minutes, I can generally start watching the video on my laptop and make it all the way through...

[Chris @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

What about the fact that TiVo, since it has no built-in networking, is using USB 1.1 to connect to a network device? Is not the bandwidth limited alerady to the 12Mbps of USB 1.1? Assuming that you're really getting the 11Mbps of 802.11b, would it really matter if you used a ethernet cable?

[Justin Ashworth @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I don't have a TiVo, but I know that the speed at which my ReplayTV transfers a show over my wired LAN to another unit or DVArchive is throttled so as not to affect the performance of any recording/watching that may be going on at the time. DVArchive uses the mechanism in ReplayTV which allows it to stream shows to other ReplayTV units and to stream a show you don't need gobs of bandwidth. TiVo may be capping the transfer speed for similar reasons. If you are recording a show and transferring at high speed to a PC, you are likely to have HDD contention issues.

[John Merryman @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I have a hacked Series 1 with a TurboNet ethernet card - and I used a Linksys wireless-G "game adapter" to connect it to my 802.11g network. The "game adapter" is essentially a cheap wireless bridge. It's fast and works great for video extraction.

[ty @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

i had identical experiance as comment 1, either way set up what you want transferred in the evening and go to bed. in the am its ready.

[Jeremy Holloway @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

The speed culprit is the USB 1.1 ports that you connect the ethernet/wifi adapters too. I don't have mine hooked up via wireless, I have mine on good ol' ethernet and the transmission process is very slow...although not as slow as the internet program sharing on the Replay units nor television file trading on a P2P app. The Series 3 TiVo units better have ethernet built into them, and some sort of card slot for a wifi adapter (think an Apple Airport card) and a CableCard adapter.

[Mike Janer @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

They have a couple of factors working against them with the current generation of Tivo's
200mhz Main processor
64Megs of ram, not sure, it may even be 32megs
USB 1.1, even with ethernet would top out at 11Mbps, not 11MBPS so , very slow.
I believe, the Series 2 boxes have encoder chips, but the main processor is decoding video, as opposed to the series 1 boxes which had a dedicated decoder/encoder chip and a 50mhz main processor.

When you factor all of this together, you have a very slow media center by today's standards.

Mike

[Mike Janer @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

They have a couple of factors working against them with the current generation of Tivo's
200mhz Main processor
64Megs of ram, not sure, it may even be 32megs
USB 1.1, even with ethernet would top out at 11Mbps, not 11MBPS so , very slow.
I believe, the Series 2 boxes have encoder chips, but the main processor is decoding video, as opposed to the series 1 boxes which had a dedicated decoder/encoder chip and a 50mhz main processor.

When you factor all of this together, you have a very slow media center by today's standards.

Mike

[Mark @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Building in Wi-Fi is definitely a good idea for TiVo. It'd be good for customers and good for them too because it would keep them from having to keep creating new drivers for every new adapter that comes out. My sister got a TiVo for Christmas and I searched all over town trying to get an adapter to hook it up to their wireless network. The problem was all the stores had in stock were the latest models of adapters that TiVo still hadn't caught up with. I finally found an out-of-date adapter in a dusty box at a Radio Shack that would work!

[Brian Behrend @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I hope my setup doesn't take this long. I'm still waiting for the software update, but as soon as I get it I need to transfer the Rose Bowl over to my PC. That's like four hours long, I better set aside an entire weekend!

[john radi @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I read that Series 2 Tivos have USB2 installed, but that they only put drivers for USB1. They expect to upgrade that part of the software later in the year so 802.11g will be supported.

Also, re: wired v. wireless - I think there may be more overhead involved with wireless. So while both may be throttled at 11Mpbs, the wirelss will result in a lower transfer rate. Take into account the quality of connection (the lower quality, the slower the transfer rate).