Napster responds to Napster To Go burning

We'll be the first to admit that yesterday's news about a plug-in for WinAmp that let's you make CDs out of files downloaded from Napster's new all-you-can-download Napster To Go service was blown way out of proportion. Yeah, the plug-in makes it simple, but at the end of the day there's nothing special about exporting audio from protected files and capturing it with your sound card, and Napster's officially responded with a statement emphasizing that no encryption has been broken, nothing has been hacked, and that Napster is still secure. Alright?

[geekdreams @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

This story spread like wildfire yesterday, it's no wonder Napster was quick to respond. Still, I think users will try out the techniques posted here and elsewhere, and manage to sufficiently rip off the industry to the point where Napster will be forced to close shop and (finally) put the cat to sleep for good.

[pellinor @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

Of course it will. Maybe.

Keep in mind the other efforts being put in place to stop this. The USB specs have built in encryption to keep people from grabbing a stream from either an external sound "card" or a speaker line.

The next generation of Microsoft OS will be building in driver stacks that can't be messed with to add additional drivers to grab the stream on the way to the card.

And look at how effective was the pull of the plug-in. It's gone. True, this is because it's such an old plug in it wasn't replicated elsewhere anymore, but still...

Napster might not survive, but a decade from now services like this will be thriving because all the technological pieces will be put in place to ensure it does.

And in the current political climate, Western governments, with their unshakeable and strong belief in the sanctity of and need to protect, extend and enforce intellectual property and copyright rights (well, at least to protect the votes and money coming from those that believe) at the expense of the consumer and fair-use rights will continue the push in that direction.

[Chris @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

Napster's explanation is BS. Of course you could do this with protected files from iTunes. The difference however is that only Napster offers the unlimited music download plan. For someone to do this with iTunes they would first have to actually purchase the song. Do you have any idea how many songs I can get during a 14 day free trial? That is about 5,000 four minute songs. And it really isn't that hard to leave it running in the background.

[Donald @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

In desperation I managed to bypass the DRM in Windows MediaPlayer (WMP) some time ago.
I had bought a Red Hot Chillie Peppers album on the MSN Music site and wanted to burn it to a CD so I could listen to it in the car, which I was entitled to do three times, according to the license. I used WMP to burn the CD and then tried to listen to it in my home CD player. First song sounded good until the end, when I heard a very high pitched tone going on for 5 seconds or so, after the second song, the same thing. I burned a new CD, thinking it was something wrong with the CD, however with the same result. In desperation I took the burnt CD and ripped the tracks with Nero (remember the old way we all used to copy CDs) to my HD, thinking I should edit each track in my audio editor so that I could listen to at least most of the album I had paid for.

Ripping the tracks was not a problem at all and when I started listening to the tracks the high pitched tone was gone, so I burned a new audio CD, from the wav-files Nero produced and that CD still works very well.

Clearly, the DRM solutions MSFT, Napster, Apple and Sony are using are just there to stop the small-time music copiers. The big guys will allways find a way around this problem. The message must be. Supply the public with high quality non-DRM music files from respectable music sites, and most people will pay for them, just as most people pay for their CDs. Non-DRM files and a standard format will also let people worry less about weather they will actually be able to play the file or not on their player and start thinking about what music to buy. Pirates will allways find away around any copy protection! Conclusion: high quality non-DRM files from large respectable online music stores = more legal sales = fewer pirates.

Another thought on the same topic. I've seen that you can now download DVDs legally and if you like it you can buy a hard copy DVD with the price you paid for the downloaded version deducted. This is somehting I've asked for for a long time when it comes to music, since I still like a hard copy CD of music I really like. CDs still have some advantages, e.g. they can be played virtually everywhere. It shouldn't be to hard to do this for music if it already exists for DVDs.

[Richard @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

Anyone know where you can get the output stacker plugin from?

Googles cache of Winamp doesn't give a link to the authors website and a google search of his name points to a forum that gives you an alternative URL for the plugin that, sadly, also doesn't work.

[Chris @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

If you look at the original story yesterday it links to a site that gives instructions on how exactly to do this. In there you can download it.

[jake @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

looks like winamp.com took ouput stacker off of their line up (the link was http://www.winamp.com/plugins/details.php?id=86033)...

I'm sure you resourcefull googlers can still find it if you put your mind to it.

[Seni0r @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

If you want to spread bad news about Napster Inc., just tell Steve Jobs.

The Apple Computer Inc. chief executive sent an e-mail Tuesday morning to top record industry executives, alerting them to a security gap in Napster's music service � a rival to Apple's iTunes online music store. "Thought you should know if you haven't heard about this," Jobs wrote.

The e-mail directed the label executives to a Web page detailing how to convert Napster's rental tunes into permanent downloads that can be burned onto CDs. The page urges people to sign up for a free trial of Napster and copy as much music as possible before canceling.

Napster CEO Chris Gorog sent the labels a retort Tuesday afternoon, arguing that such copying programs were neither new nor a problem only for Napster. Such programs are time-consuming because they "essentially work like a tape recorder," converting files as they play, Gorog said.

By contrast, he said, it is "trivial" to download a free program that circumvents Apple's anti-piracy software and unlocks "a large collection of iTunes music in seconds." He provided the Web address of a site that supplied such a program.

Neither Apple nor Napster would comment on the e-mail exchange. Spokesmen for the major record companies declined to enter the fray.

From the L.A. Times-

By Jon Healey, Times Staff Writer

[Chris @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

I just found another idea to speed up the conversion process. Winamp allows you to run multiple instances of it by checking off that option in the options screen. I saw this on another message board so I can't take credit. I just wanted to share.

[n8 @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

That's a good point Chris (#3) and of course that's the reason it was such "big news." Ultimately Napster's subscription model is just a bad idea, and this might just be the final nail. Of course, with the huge number of people signing up for the free trial as a result of this news, Napster might do well if those people decide they actually like the service, but I doubt it.

Although I don't think paying ~200 a year for all-you-can-eat music is fundementally a bad idea, it really only works if customers can rely on their "collection" being maintained. Napster's model requires a lot more trust from the consumer, even than iTunes.

I think the result of this is that labels are going to start pulling out of Napster, and then everyone's going to lose the tunes they rented, and then customers are going to leave in droves.

[jake @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

so... according to napster's site: http://www.napster.com/tutorial/burn_cd.html
can't you do the same "hack" that you can do with itunes... therefore getting around the copyright the same way?

[Kevin Overman @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

Anyone interested in what pellinor stated about DRM should check out M$'s press on it at http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2002/jul02/0724palladiumwp.asp or you can read more info here http://www.activewin.com/articles/2002/pd.shtml
or of course .. google it yourself.

[Chris @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

Jake,
Yes you can do the same. But the difference with iTunes is that you first need to buy the song before you can do that. So at one point you have to pay 99 cents. With Napster it is $15 a month for unlimited songs. So the potential is far greater with Napster.

[mike @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

Senior.. you have to pay for the iTUnes songs before you 'unlock' them...

With the subscription model you can pay for one month.. 'stream' all your songs.. convert them to 'REAL' songs.. and cancel your subscription.

Don't you get it?

Apple gets paid.. Napster.. er.. one month of subscriptions for a buttload of songs..you can cancel after a month for the ultimate 'VALUE'

[Jason @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

Regardless of napsters business models, or Microsofts attempts to build "anit-piracy" into their sound drivers, or Apple's solution, at the end of the day, there will always be a workaround to record the stream. If you can hear it, you can record it.

This is just a dance. The only one of these folks who can stay within range of the workarounds is Apple by owning both the hardware and software. Once somebody builds an app., Apple can update iTunes and/or a firmware update to iPod and BANG! It's over until someone figures out how to work around it and the dance begins all over again.

[Fabulo @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

#10: to me the business model makes a lot of sense. Flat fee is always better for the consumer. I'm willing to cope with the evils of DRM for unlimited songs and a subscription. It's that kind of initiative that can redeem the RIAA, be more open, be more acomodating, not suing left and right and not claiming we are all pirates and thieves.

$15/month is even better than satellite radio, because I choose what I want to listen and where and when.

Napster would not have done anything without the blessing of the RIAA. Competition is fierce and there is no differenciation, so far this is the best pay for download service (or screw that and allofmp3.com)

[tile @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

#10: Flat fee for some folks makes perfect sense. for the occasionally music listener, probably not but for someone who loves to listen to music its a great model. it allows this person to try out new artists or genres that they never would have listened to before at such a small cost. people believe this is model is dumb (rightly or wrongly) based on how accustomed we've all become with the buying and 'owning' something. but somehow we are OK with paying a monthly fee for other things cable, satellite TV, satellite radio, DVD rentals, online porn subscriptions (cmon...don't lie), etc. it'll only be a matter of time before an online content service like napster partners with a broadband provider (cable and/or dsl) to just include it in your monthly broadband fee and call it a value add. if you pay $40 a month today, its not that much of a leap to pay $50. cmon...fess up...how many of you pay that ridiculous set top rental fee for that cable box or that cable modem? you know you can go and buy and own that STB or modem, right? and what a deal that is...its all in the marketing. I pay $12 month for HBO and nearly $20 to go out to a movie with someone. i would easily pay $15 month for on demand movies at home. and i love music so $15 a month for napster is a no brainer.

[Infinite @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

If anyone wants the stacker plugin, you can get it off of my FTP space:

http://members.aol.com/infiniteuni/Output_Stacker.exe

[Nik Manning @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

PEOPLE AND RECORD COMPANY executives look at it like this. $15 a month you can download and burn music to cds(oops).
If 40 million people sign up to this service saying wow I can't believe it I can download all this music thats 40 million times $15 a month ($600 million a month) over $7 BILLION a year. Think about what that could do for the MUSIC industry overall. Eventually add another 40 million customers or so for world wide sales. $14 BILLION Baby.
I have nothing to say but positive things about napster. I think we should tell the record companies not to change a thing. When Apple sold there 1 billionth song that was only $1 billion made. BAD APPLE ps love the mac mini.

Also on a marketing note DELL should license "go dj" by lil wayne of Cash Money Records if they want there player to sell the "dell dj" in case you didn't see that coming.

[John @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

If I wanted "flat fee" convenience that disappears when I stop paying the monthly service, why wouldn't I just go with satellite radio? It's only $10. a month and follows the more spontaneous "random" metaphor Apple has tapped into for the new iPod Shuffle.

It seems like three clear choices: iTunes if you want to own, satellite radio if you want to rent (and download/capture songs too don't forget).

Napster kind of gets left in no man's land while a whole lot of skeptical record labels are already experiencing success with iTunes and satellite.

[Seni0r @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

Mike,

Am I the only person on engadget aware of the thriving P2P Networks?

Why would one go through all the trouble when they can download unrestricted MP3's with a possibly higher bitrate?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!!!

[Monmin @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

Senior,

Overall, your right. Napster does give the convienience of getting the tracks nice and easy (p2p is not always nice and easy in my experience) but then you have to record them to wav in realtime -- thats a huge disadvantage compared to p2p.
I get the feeling most people want Napster to fail. I don't know why. It seems like a nice option to listen to music. I prefer satellite though.

[natemc @ Dec 19th 2005 12:10AM]

Seni0r,
because it's easily searchable and has a some what guaranteed speed of download. BitTorrent takes visiting multiple sites and then praying there is a seed.

Use the stacker plugin with the lame plugin instead of the diskwriter, it writes the id3 tags and everything. I've got a 24+ hour playlist already.