Numark dueling iPod DJ mixer?
Not too many details on this yet, but a pic of the prototype unit surfaced (above) and was too good not to pass on.
Word has it that Numark aims to put out a consumer model in the next couple of months, retailing in the $250-350 range,
to be followed with a pro DJ version with pitch control and other goodies required by the pro mobile DJ. Both versions
will feature the dual iPod dock with crossfaders and transport controls. The other word on the street (tentative,
hearsay, take with a grain of salt, yadda yadda) is that Numark is teaming up with Apple to cook up some products.
Mobile music-makers, keep thy ears to the ground…
[Thanks, angel g.]
















Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Fredley @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
Whos gonna spend $300, and buy 2 ipods with (presumably) the same music on each! especially as when the next gen of ipods comes out you'll need to replace the lot!
Gordy @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
Um...freelance DJs? Goodbye to crates of records I'd imagine.
Not to mention party planners and nightclubs.
Lisa Rocket @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
To Fredley:
I already have spent money on two ipods as currently the only way to dj with ipods is with two into seperate channels of a mixer, otherwise, with just one you get gaps between songs. You don't need to replace the pods when the next generation of them come along. I was using a 1g and a 3g for a couple of years till the 1g died.
Connected @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
At first I thought 'cool' then I thought, hold on , you'll need a second iPod......
http://www.connectedinternet.co.uk
douglas @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
dj's would spend AT LEAST that much on a good pair of turntables and needles. Also, this would be something a club could buy (since they usually have their own equipment, and then the dj would just have to bring the ipods instead of a van full of records.
Fredley @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
But even so, the sound quality isnt nearly as good as vinyl, with all the other expensive stuff itll be hooked up to, you would be able to hear.
Also, why dont you just make one of these with a couple of hard drives in, much much much cheaper than ipods.
Kenny @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
If they can get the pitch control working (at a decent price) this is a no brainer and will be a big success. I use my powerbook and the Traktor software alone is comparable to an extra iPod in cost. And I need to bring back-up CDs or Vinyl in case it crashes - I could trust two iPods. Would be nice if the pro version was a regular mixer too, to make it easier to mix CDs, MP3s and Vinyl.
cycle60 @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
so much for getting into the club free by helping the dj carry in his records. ;-)
honestly, this is a pretty kewl idea. this kit with 2 pods cost less than 2 pro turntables, needles and a mixer.
look for mobile sound systems to pop up in modded scion xB's and honda elements very soon.
steve @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
Problem is, iPods don't have pitch control. What are they going to do, buffer the audio feed from the iPod? That, combined with the fact that an iPod can't play two tracks without a gap in between (don't get me wrong, I own and love my iPod, but come on!) really makes it a rough choice as a DJ tool.
I'd much rather see a dual hard drive player, like someone mentioned. Perhaps it would support transfer to and from an iPod for ease of use and the ability to switch up your music library while out on the road without a computer.
DJ CD players can play the CD at different speeds (just like a record), and at least attempt to emulate things like "scratching" etc, because the abilities are built in to the CD players themselves. The iPod has none of these abilities, so it would all have to be somehow faked after the fact. Not gonna happen, kids... not well, anyway..
Robert Preseau @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
If that thing fell out of the sky with 2 ipods (preferrably painted black) attached, I'd give it a shot. Not sure that I would love it though. ...At least until the next time I have to move and I spend an hour bitching and moaning about how much vinyl weighs.
Wonder what vestax thinks about this? ;-)
Dave @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
I remember Apple bragging about a 40GB iPod replacing more than 500 pounds of vinyl. Imagine a pair of 60GB models.
A couple of people have suggesting scrapping the iPods and going with connected hard drives. Er, isn't an iPod exactly that? Just use the iPods for storage and track selection and use the mixer's built-in processor for playback, which could be capable of pitch/time shifting and gapless playback.
jason @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
Why have **TWO** iPods? It's digital music, it's a hard drive, it's not like you need two physical devices. One iPod, one connector, access all music from either side of the mixer.
anti ipod DJ @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
i can't believe some of you approve of this. is there no respect for the art of DJing anymore?
2 top of the line industry standard Technics 1200 turntables= $600 (on craigslist).
a good mixer, 3 hours worth of vinyl= $350.
and its 10000000 times better than 2 ipods and this whack numark thing. how would you control the pitch? buffering? that's just asking for skipping and party fouls.
real music heads will revolt against this device... its basically cheating.
mos definitely @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
I can already see people buying this and picking up and extra iPod and proclaiming themselves "freelance DJs," only to be laughed out of a club or party for lack of mixing expertise. Just because you have a good iPod playlist doesn't mean automatically have the ability to seamlessly mix music and keep the dance floor moving.
BOTTOM LINE:
Please, iPod junkies: leave the DJing to DJs.
Lisa Rocket @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
For mos definitely:
I've been DJing with two ipods for about 2 years now. I never get laughed out of clubs i play in because it's all about what music your playing. In fact, people don't even realise i'm using ipods until they look over the DJ box.
It's a bit narrow minded to say that the 'art' of DJing is down to how well you mix. You are right to a point when you say that not everyone can DJ, but most of it is down to how well you select tunes, not how well you can mix.
If you fancy a go though. Do come down to my club Playlist (http:/www.ipod-dj.com)
dump @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
Many of you guys haven't a clue about real DJing... sure, this might be interesting as a novelty item, but it's a toy at best. It's essentially a doc for 2 ipods combined with a budget numark mixer (see: noisy) with off-the-pod ipod controls.
Here are the issues with this type of setup
1. NO PITCH CONTROL
This is MUST if you're going to attempt to do any mixing/beat matching. With no pitch control, you may as well just have a playlist going on 1 ipod & call it a day
2. CRAPPY INTERFACE
Why do DJs still use vinyl today? Where are there things like FinalScratch & Serrato Scratch Live? Why? Because DJs love the tactile interface & control a 12" platter provides.
3. LATENCY?
What's the latency of this unit? How long after you hit play does it play? Well, they don't have any pitch controls, so what does it matter.
4. SOUND QUALITY
What you probably won't hear on an ipod over headphones you'll definitely hear in a club environment when the sound is 100s of times louder...
I love mp3s but when it comes down to it... @ club volume levels, vinyl sounds best.
@ a real club, anyone who showed up w/ this joke would likely get laughed out of the joint.
This will not catch on... you can do the exact same thing in any club right now if you have 2 ipods... hook it into their house system... easy. no need to run your sound throught he crappy newmark "mixer"
dump @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
and mr. ipod-dj, you're correct... djing is not about mixing, it's about the music.
what we're talking about here really is this device, which imo is not directed at anything more than a casual audience, almost as a novelty item.
I prefer to mix. In some genres, mixing isn't even appropriate. imo, the ipod isn't the best device for playing audio in a club environment...
Spyvie @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
Unless I'm missing something, 100% of the functionality of this contraption is available now with a notebook computer and a copy of WMP10 or even Winamp... No Ipod needed.
At the very least, software could be written to mimic this device on any computer with a decent sound card.
010111 @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
I can already see people buying a mixer and picking up a couple 1200s and proclaiming themselves "freelance DJs," only to be laughed out of a club or party for lack of mixing expertise. Just because you have a crate of records doesn't mean automatically have the ability to seamlessly mix music and keep the dance floor moving.
BOTTOM LINE:
Please, vinyl supremacists who think owning vinyl automatically makes you a superstar DJ: leave the DJing to DJs.
- - -
seriously. everyone i know who owns a pair of 1200s and automatically thinks that they are somehow a 'real DJ' ... normally suck. and tend *blame the crowd* for not 'feeling what their doing' or 'not being hip enough' or apparently not understanding that it's the chunk of electronics and the media format that TRULY matters in being a good DJ.
give it a rest. either you know how to mix or you don't. and if you don't there is no sense blaming the guy who *can* on what gear he has and chalk up the presense of *ability* to mystical format voodoo or "cheating". suck it up.
i've seen DJs who categorically suck on every format around. but it's only the 1200 junkies who somehow think they are superior and immune to criticism. and somehow think the epuipment is the embodiment of said skill.
Eric @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
This is a myopic attempt to ride the cool wave of the iPod. What artists really need is choice and flexibility. It shouldn't matter if you are a freelance DJ or a rockstar and it shouldn't matter if you have an iPod or a Numark. The industry should be tracking a standard to allow all types of devices to plug in and be driven by the controller.
Imagine if MIDI only worked wiht iPods or my 1200's only played "vinyl" from iTunes. Give me a break. As an artist and a technologist - I call fowl on this piece. Additionally these mixers keep getting cheaper and cheaper and less quality. Keep it simple and clean - more so make it pluggable - stop boiling the ocean by munging on new features like integration with single minded devices. Take a lesson from Mackie and follow their lead on Firewire support that connects to multi-devices. I could go on and on about this.....
010111 @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
oh yeah. my actual device comments... i forgot those.
personally as sort of cool as the 'pro' version sounds... i'd rather just have one piece device that mimiced a dual set of transport controls and a mixer. give the mixer a few extra channels of input and an effects loop as well.
then have *each side* of the transport have 64MB-128MB-ish of RAM AND a file browser. then add a USB Mass Storage port on it... then you could plug in whatever you wanted. an iPod shuffle. an iPod. a Zen Micro. a freaking flash card reader and some 16MB Smart Media cards you have laying around. a USB hard drive. it wouldn't matter. it would just be storage. the file browser is on both sides of the transports. load in songs per side... load in playlists per side. whatever.
the song is then loaded from storage into the per side buffer. you could even do multiple songs per side similar to what some of the newer CD decks do. have looping. have pitch control. and with 128MB RAM per side... that's a 12min song uncompressed ... so you wouldn't even be forced to use MP3 if you didn't feel like it. DRM'd tracks might pose a problem without neccessary licensing arrangements. but there are plenty of places you can get high-rate MP3s of dance music legit and DRM-free. or buy the CD. record from 12". etc etc etc.
or even skip the mixer section entirely... and make something like the PVDJ only without the reliance on a full-on host computer. and instead just let it read directly from whatever you plug into it via USB. then use your own mixer.
i guess i see this actual device (especially the non-pitch control non-'pro' version) as more getting on the iPod money train than actually bringing anything new to the table. and i can see no reason to require *2* iPods if it was just used as a storage platform with a 'local' file browser and in-mixer buffering. i'll wait for more specs on the 'pro' version before i dismiss it entirely though.
glad @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
If it like most of Numarks bottom end stuff then it'll be a piece of crap, as for calling one's self a DJ, well that's taking liberties. As for vinyl yep if you don't use it it just ain't the real deal, after all djing with cd, mat as well use a computer and sack the dj.
olo J. Milkman @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
I think the approach of needing 2 ipods is silly; the thing is a hard drive and could easily stream 2 songs at once, so why should a person need 2? A single ipod should plug into the mixer and they should have software that interfaces it to not necessarily play through the ipod interface controls, but rather access the tracks through it's "hard drive" functionality. Likely easier to manage the pitch control too, since the regular ipod playback interface lacks the pitching.
baos @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
i dont really know why people are complaining about "club sound quality" when i listen to my ipod on my headphones or homeset i hear about 34 times more fidelity and high tones then when im in a club where all high tones get mangled in a highpitched mayhem of highness, and you only have some mids and (mostly) the basses to keep you on track
Paracid @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
The iPod *is* a harddisk. So the engineers of Numark can make the thing scratch and pitch as mutch as they like. Even with only one iPod. When using the iPod as a harddrive you can also listen to 96khz, 24bit AIF of WAV files in 5.1 Surround sound. That's the future of clubbing!
vatoDETH @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
It doesn't seem like a great setup to me. If it doesn't have a pitch control, then it's a complete waste of time and money to attempt to mix with this device.
The fact that you need 2 I-Pods is ridiculous. Ideally you would want the same playlist on both I-Pods, so that your tracks are always accessible for the next mix.
If this product does support some form of pitch control, then that will be a good start. If they can stream 2 tracks at once then it will be formidable as well. To stream two tracks at once will require 4 outputs, unless it will stream them in mono.
A novelty item or a serious DJ setup? At this point and I would say a novelty item. It has nothing to do with favouring vinyl or being an elitist DJ. It has everything to do with functionality.
Essentially any new media or hardware replacement has to compete with vinyl and turntables. If it is not as good, then it sucks! Imagine trying to scratch with 2 i-pods? It's not going to happen!
I am currently looking into going digital to save money on purchasing tracks. Beatport has tracks you can download for $3, which is a lot cheaper than vinyl. Plus you get (and pay for) only the tracks you want, not 1 good track and 1-3 other tracks you'll never ever play.
Currently Numarks Final Scratch and Ranes Serato Live are my two favorite options. CD decks also seem viable. I'd personally rather have all of my tracks nicely organized on a hard drive, than be sorting through heaps of CD's. Plus things like FX Units and Loops will all be integrated into the DJ software.
I'd rather use Traktor DJ and the M-Audio X-Session Mixer than this i-pod setup. The X-Session is only $100. It's a much better setup, especially if you have a laptop. You can beatmatch in Traktor, but it is essentially cheating.
If anyone else has some cool alternatives, I'd be happy to hear them. If anyone has some more technical specs on this setup, I'd love to hear them too...
Latah,
vatoid
Kevin @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
C'mon you can do .AIFF format on iPods- what DJ in their right mind is going to use .mp3 at a club, they don't know what they are talking about! Especially with professional amps most decent clubs have! This products wil be awsome! You still have to know how to mix, just like today's digital cammeras they help alot, but if you shoot shit it still is shit, it's the same with playing music to a crowd...
Thank God, these crates are getting too heavy to carry all that vinyl!
Hoorah for Numark and Apple!
scott @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
Whatever.. that shyt looks cool...
oh and you need TWO ipods because then Apple get more money, dummies
DJ Soulside @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
Ehhh...Im not too thrilled by this. As many have mentioned, there are questions about pitch control and effects etc...
I like the HD Mixer idea.
Ok kids. Stay in school and BUY VINYL!!!
ian @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
> Ok kids. Stay in school and BUY VINYL!!!
As someone who owns prolly about 3000+ pieces of wax, I love the stuff but just like with the Pioneers CDJ's, even if this technology is ass right now, they will eventually perfect it and vinyl will officially be a wrap at that point.
Chris @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
Vinyl's encounter with the Grim Reaper just got one step closer!
info @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
imo: djing with anything other than a pair of 1200s and a stack of vinyl is kinda like having sex with a condom - it just don't feel the same.
djwithblades @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
This product as shown in the image seems very targeted towards the bedroom DJ and smaller bar or lounge. Yes, the obvious intent is to cash in on the popularity of the Ipod market and Numark was the first to do it. Someone was bound to. I really don't mind a DJ company making some money versus some of the other companies out there. It does seem to be missing some key features such as pitch control that have already been mentioned but I am sure that will appear in the next model.
The goal of most DJs is to rock a crowd. That seems to be a descent method of tracking your success. Regardless of how you do it, whether through beat matching, beat juggling, scratching, track selections, etc. Equipment alone doesn't make someone a good DJ. Some DJs can totally rock a crowd with 2 old tech 12s and a crappy Gemini mixer. Who cares as long as it sounds good.
I do think this is a step to bring DJ culture to more people which is always a good thing.
The culture needs to continue to evolve and grow. Who knows, this could be a step in the right direction instead of just some greedy oportunistic move by a large company. Creative people will figure out a way to do some cool stuff other than just the standard fade out as track is about to end. Keep pushing the boundries.
adam ceeee @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
iPod mix here:
http://www.coolelectronique.com/radionowax/podcasts/noWaxMix180405.mp3
Just two 2nd Gens and a mixer... fun!
Professor JAM @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
I would like to see a unit with a replaceable docking system so an individual can pop-out, and replace, then utilize the portable player they own... Units like this would make great rental units and I can see IPod bars where you pay the bar tender $??? For a specific amount of time to play your unit in the house..
Interesting prospects and indeed a new trend.
Technology is great and I hope to see this unit and others at the 2005 Computer DJing Summit. http://www.computerdjsummit.com or http://www.cpsdj.com
Jef Damen @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
Just thinking:
Why not use 1 ipod?
The numark thing should download a song from the ipod into a buffer, from then on, the numark handles cue-points and pitchcontrol.
Offcourse there should be a A-buffer and a B-buffer...
I can't believe they made this without pitch-control...stupid move if u ask me.
It does what it says anywys, mix 2 signals, an ipod DJ-mixer is not the same as an ipod DJ mixstation.
Weird product...
FoundationDJ @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
All this talk about what makes a real DJ or not.. thats all debateable.. If you have what it takes and can get crowds jumping then your format is really irrelavant..
That being said.. As a DJ of almost 15 years and one that has played in many clubs around the world for many years both big and small.. I dont see any club owners buying such a device. Most have a hard time just keeping their 1200's serviced properly not to mention going and buying some new tool that requires an IPOD to use..
Personally I use Serato/Rane ScratchLive
www.scratchlive.com
Fully digital, very very stable and still uses vinyl or CDs to control. I walk in with my laptop and small interface box.. takes just a second to plug in and I am good to go and the clubs basic hardware stays intact.. ALOT of very very big DJ's are going this route.. DJ jazzy jeff, Paul Van Dyk, and others..
As for the sound quality.. the comment above about how its sounds fine in your headphones.. A club is a very different enviroment.. your headphones dont generate anywhere near the sound pressure levels that a large club system does at high volume.. when this happens low quality encodings sound VERY bad trust me I have tried.. for small clubs with basic sound systems or parties I play with 320kb MP3s or higher.. when I play in large clubs with well tuned sound systems.. AIFF or WAV ONLY.. there is a noticable difference between these and the MP3. I do feel however if the track originated from a digital medium then a AIFF tends to sound even better than the vinyl..
just my 2 cents, not to diss the IPOD deal but if you really want a digital DJ system go with what the pros are using now and wait till the IPODs get more refined..
www.scratchlive.com
enjoy
Foundation
danamino @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
Numark are pretty crap. They might do this themselves but there's no way I can see Apple partnering with them; mind you, they might for exactly the same reason
Praketh @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
sorry but this is stupid ... iam sure the build quality also wouldnt be as solid as owning a pioneers or so ....
moreover if u really wanna dj with digital formats i think the best deal would be a laptop with a decent sound card with traktor along with the m-audio x-session .... this setup would be really compact along with giving any dj full control over the mix ....
Mr. Mix Daylee @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
Okay people, I'm sick and tired of this little debate among The new school Dj (digital) vs. The old school DJ (vinyl). I'm just gonna tell it like it is.
We all know that if you truly love the art of Djing, then you need to go back to the basics and get your hands on two turntables and a mixer. Yes, you might suck and all, but you're still getting involved with the art in its purest form. Once you've tried vinyl, then feel free to try using different gear (ex. ipods), but just because you've been a digital dj all your life don't make dumb comments like this..
"i've seen DJs who categorically suck on every format around. but it's only the 1200 junkies who somehow think they are superior and immune to criticism. and somehow think the epuipment is the embodiment of said skill."
NO, GENIUS!!
Just because you rock turntables, it doesn't mean you're not susceptable to criticism. It just means that if you've never touched vinyl then you (digital dj's) should keep your mouth shut.
Who do you think deserves more props?
1. The painter who paints your portrait.
OR
The photographer who takes your picture?
2. The sculptor of a statue
or
The machine who makes 1000's of replicas of a statue?
I guess it all depends, right?
From a business or economic point of view, photographs and a machine would make the most sense.
But from an ARTISTIC point of view, I think that the first choice would make the most sense.
Oh yeah, the last time I checked, most dj's agreed that dj-ing was an art form.
YEAH THAT'S RIGHT, you dumbass, go tell all the art students that paint and a canvas are irrelevant, because now with the advent of technology, they're not gonna need them any more.
**As for those who claim that a good Dj is the person who can rock the crowd with their playlist. I got news for you, 85% of the crowd doesn't have freaken clue what you're doing. For all they know, you can have your grandma on the i-pods and if they're drunk enough, they will cheer for her when she plays their favorite jam.
If you really want to compare a couple of DJ's. Give all of them a set of 6 songs (all dj's get the same 6 songs) and watch them get creative. AND YES, THE CROWD MUST BE COMPOSED OF OTHER DJ'S. BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW THAT OUR HARSHEST CRITICS OTHER THAN OURSELVES...ARE OUR FELLOW DJ'S.
***On a different note, I'm glad that final scratch and scratch live were able to keep it real by letting the dj's keep their artistic form of mixing with vinyl. The True Dj's voiced their concerns, and the manufacturers responded.
Bro @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
Were else can you mix close to 20,000 songs to cover any genre of hip hop roots rock reggae dub funk disco house whatever your heat desires on a drop of a hat. I love records to but lets face it could you cary 50 crates of records in your pocket???? as long as it sounds good play it... Who needs to mix bob marley anyhow, it sounds perfect by its self. DP OC cali represent. One love
Neza @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
The ipod mixer would be a mobile dj's dream if it had some kind of pitch control, and I can think of dozens of low key events Ive done where it would have been perfect. But the bottom line is that you can have 20, thou songs on each ipod and still SUCK! its not the amount of music, but the selection that counts. So if your gonna invest money on this, cool , but with no way of actually blending the music, all you are is a button pusher! not a DJ. ( but if it makes you money then F*#k it)
easy. NEZA
BigJoeW @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
You don't need even 1 iPod. you can run anything into the back as a line... geeese do your research
DJKrugger @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
OOOHH!!..SH#^!!
I will get blind!!! just imagine i have a NANO do you get the picture? in the booth in the middle of the night with the appropiate toppings in my head, 1000 souls jumping, only black light(maybe some strobe?) browsing the playlists and triyin to cue on the beat with that tiny wheel..geez, that will be hard SH#t men!!!well, at least i can see the album cover on the stamp-sized screen:)
single device mixerscrater mp3 player.........i will be first in line @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
I like the idea, but since Apple and Numark seem to be working in tandem to get people to buy more Ipods and of course a Numark mixer/scratcher they want to keep the "masses" waiting for the.... GREAT ONE........which is I believe a SINGLE portable music device that scrathes and mixes. If Apple/Numark don't create one.....there are other "players", excuse the pun, out there that should and would step up to plate. Until then I'll be waiting for the Great One like yall...
Scott @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
PITCH CONTROL MLAHHHHHHH WAAAAAAAA
To all those "1200's are teh only way to DJ" people, honestly, stop preening yourselves publicly. Owning nice equipment or being a fantastic DJ in no way justifies utter snobbishness.
Anyway. Seeing as how all the self-proclaimed pros out there wont use this, stop fearing that (gasp) this would be used in a club that you would step your holy foot in. It's not a professional device. It's not trying to be. They're not retarded. Stop attacking it as if it was actually attacking you.
UGh.
Lola @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM
I think what everyone here is missing is that this toy, thats exactly what it is a toy, will be used for private parties where people come and bring their ipods and then the host might be able to throw a bash while mixing in different music tastes via his/her guest's ipods.
I see this more as a device that once again allows regular folks the accessability to gadgets that before only some select computer nerds would use. Calm down, DJs wont be losing jobs or respect, just let the people have some fun while pretending to be a dj.