TUAW Reader Discussion on Grokster and Google Video

Every so often, now that we have a chatroom, I'm going to have little impromptu chatcasts with readers on different tech topics that affect the Mac community. This time around we talked about the Grokster decision, the RIAA, the MPAA, and Google's new video playback capabilities and their lack of a video client for the Mac.

Here it is:

CK TUAW: so what do you guys think about the Grokster ruling?
Joe: ?
CK TUAW: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/27/technology/27cnd-
grokster.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1119898935-jDT/6cD8tbk7ycNTzY9DHw
CK TUAW: the Supreme Court by a unanimous vote ruled against Grokster
Joe: o
mrbarrett: well...
CK TUAW: basically saying that any file-sharing software that promotes pirating should be held
accountable for its misuse by others
********** at 3:04 PM jx left the room
Joe: yup it sucks
CK TUAW: well....?
mrbarrett: personally, I'm mixed. There are many legit uses for P2P networks...and I hope that
P2P won't be harmed by this ruling
Joe: don't kill bit torrent
mrbarrett: but it's also clear that there are some companies, like Grokster, that were using P2P
solely for illegal purposes
mrbarrett: the ruling did seem to focus more on Grokster's misuse of the technology, rather than the technology itself

Read more after the jump...

mrbarrett: which is a good thing, as long as people read and interpret it reationally
Joe: they toke suprnova.org now wat
mrbarrett: my fear is that there are some players on both sides that will respond irrationally to
this ruling
mrbarrett: and the technology of p2p will be forever overshadowed by the irrational dialogue
around it
CK TUAW: yes, but the wording is too vague
CK TUAW: in the ruling
Grappik: I am in agreement with Mr. Barrett...
CK TUAW: so the people with all the money
CK TUAW: ie the RIAA and the MPAA
mrbarrett: which I deplore,BTW
CK TUAW: will use this ruling to destroy every freedom they can
mrbarrett: the RIAA and MPAA are WAY overboard in their heavyhandedness
CK TUAW: that's my worry
Grappik: Basically, both sides are wrong.
Joe: yes
Andrew Kaufmann: I think legal p2p will stay pretty strong... but I don't see sites like
torrentspy.com lasting much longer
mrbarrett: and honestly part of me wanted this ruling to go the other way to stick it to them
Joe: which sucks
mrbarrett: but....it's all about distribution of legal material vs. illegal material
CK TUAW: I wanted the ruling to go the other way 100%
mrbarrett: I know someone personally that was sued by the RIAA because she downloaded
some songs via Napster
Grappik: People really shouldn't be trading copywritten material online like they do. We can sit
here and try to justify most p2p services as having legitimate uses, but those uses are alwasy
going to be --
mrbarrett: she settled, like so many others, out of court for about $50000
CK TUAW: b/c the way to protect against illegal misuse shouldn't be to make laws that limit legal
technologies
mrbarrett: er, $5000
Andrew Kaufmann: mrb: yeah, they're arbitrary about who they go after... scare tactic
Joe: wow
Grappik: -- overshadowed by the illegal uses...
mrbarrett: which she couldn't really afford and will be paying off for a long time
mrbarrett: THAT's the heeavyhandedness that pisses me off
Grappik: And there are ways that p2p services can be set up to not allow trading of copywritten
works...
CK TUAW: yes, Grappik, but the wording in this ruling is vague enough...
mrbarrett: now, had she talked to me BEFORE she went and signed something, I could've
helped her
Andrew Kaufmann: yeah... and I admit, I've engaged in some pirating on P2P, I'd be lying if I said
otherwise... but if I get caught, what defense do I have? I knew what I was doing, shouldn't I face
the music if I ge
Grappik: And yes, the RIAA (probably the MPAA, soon enough) are being too havy handed. They
are going to drive away the customers, and in turn, their clients, the artists.
CK TUAW: where they could make the argument that hackers can get around those preventive
measures
mrbarrett: but she didn't...and now she's in debt for years to pay off this "scare tactic" lawsuit
which makes only the RIAA and it's scumbag lawyers money
CK TUAW: and therefore the technology shouldn't be used
Joe: p2p will always stay
Grappik: There will be another case. There will be clarifications...
Grappik: It's not that doom and gloom, CK... Honestly, p2p is not going anywhere.
ing to kill the technology, but I'm
with Grappik -- it probably won't go anywhere
Joe: like your tree
Grappik: That's "iTree", thank you very much.
Andrew Kaufmann: and I'd rather have a civil suit against me than they press charges criminally
CK TUAW: my other worry is that this ruling will embolden the RIAA and MPAA and they'll become
more overbearingly harsh
mrbarrett: I agree with that, CK
mrbarrett: that's my biggest worry
Andrew Kaufmann: yeah
Andrew Kaufmann: I really don't like the RIAA and the MPAA
CK TUAW: I mean I haven't seen any evidence of them backing up at all
Joe: well we just have to wait and c
Grappik: That, I'd like to see. Because then, they would put the final nail in their coffin. The RIAA
won't exist without artists.
mrbarrett: but...do we automatically negate copyright to prevent that kind of abuse?
Andrew Kaufmann: I like Mark Cuban's point of view -- rather than innovate with the times, they try
to rely on the goverment and lawyers to fight their battles, rather than improve their product
CK TUAW: yes, Mark is good on these issues
mrbarrett: he's a pretty smart guy, reality TV nonwithstanding
Grappik: The problem is not really p2p and copyright infringement in the eyes of the RIAA...
Grappik: The problem is that they see that these technologies will be the death of them.
CK TUAW: I honestly see copyright becoming more problematic than it was originally
Andrew Kaufmann: I work out at the same gym as Mark, known him since before he was
famous... he's nice in person usually, but the most intense dude ever
CK TUAW: I think there should be some protection for the artists
Andrew Kaufmann: he is a little ball of cussing when playing pickup games
Grappik: Right now, there is no protection for the artist, though.
Andrew Kaufmann: (well, not that little)
CK TUAW: but i think the current movement to protect is so unenforceable that the move becomes
to lock everything down too much
Grappik: If an artist speaks up, they are ridiculed in the media.
Andrew Kaufmann: Other than when they sign their contract... once they're in contract though,
they're screwed
Grappik: eg. Metallica
mrbarrett: what scares me is the broadcast flag
Andrew Kaufmann: which is hard for a non-contracted artist to argue
CK TUAW: that's my main gripe
CK TUAW: yes
********** at 3:16 PM arkowi joined the room
mrbarrett: I'm not going to defend theives stealing ripped DVD movies
Grappik: Hi Arkowi.
CK TUAW: but my main gripe is that all of these rulings and decisions are largely unenforceable
CK TUAW: so they are inherently bad law
mrbarrett: but I will defend to the end my right to do with freely broadcast signals as I will
Andrew Kaufmann: scare tactics -- like suing random little people, so they spread the word and
their friends don't do it, and their friends don't do it
Joe: i don't really think its going to be that big of a deal
Andrew Kaufmann: "I know a guy who knows a guy that was actually sued!"
CK TUAW: I mean, if it were really enforceable, everyone, not just your friend, who had abused
filesharing would be owing $5K
Andrew Kaufmann: (OK I have to do some work, mostly away, good convo tho!)
the room
Grappik: We scared arkowi...
CK TUAW: yes, I like this convo
CK TUAW: I think I'll post it
Joe: just be more carefully when useing p2p thats all
Grappik: p2p is full of headaches as it is.
CK TUAW: broadcast flag is stupid
Grappik: Broadcast flag has been held down so far.
mrbarrett: /afk
CK TUAW: what really surprises me with the MPAA and the RIAA really don't get that everything is
an advertisement for itself
CK TUAW: that the MPAA & RIAA
Joe: there will probley be some new bittorent type thing soon
CK TUAW: is that
Grappik: What pisses me off, more than anything, is that a lot of the times, the industry is
responsible for the "leak" to the p2p sites...
CK TUAW: I mean, if Bob downloads a 96kbps encoded mp3 of his favorite band's new song
CK TUAW: most likely, he's going to go out and buy the full deal
CK TUAW: same with bittorrented broadcast shows
Grappik: Back to the whole Metallica vs. Napster thing... It was metallica's "I Disappear" song that
had been out on Napster that got their attention.
Grappik: It was on Napster before it was released...
CK TUAW: if Bob grabs the O.C. off of bittorrent
CK TUAW: first, he gets all the embedded advertisements in the show itself
Grappik: Now, the infamous Revenge of the Sith movie... It's an insider copy, witht he time code
still on it.
CK TUAW: so all those trendy songs have just that much more chance of Bob going and buying
the album
********** at 3:21 PM Stephen Searer joined the room
Grappik: They need to look inward to stop a lot of this crap.
Grappik: Hi Stephen.
CK TUAW: and would you rather have the bittorrent copy, Bob, or a nice DVD with director and cast
commentary?
CK TUAW: yes
CK TUAW: exactly, Grappik
Stephen Searer: Hello, looks like its pretty busy here Most people I've seen in a room yet
Joe: it was there falt for not protecting starwars 3 better
CK TUAW: look to your own house before you start making assumptions about mine
Grappik: This room is always jumpin'...
CK TUAW: Grappik, come on
CK TUAW: sometime's its just you and iTree
Grappik: Yeah... But iTree is more than enough for anyone.
Grappik:
Joe: no iatom
Joe: lol
Grappik: Wait until winter! iTree will be naked! Woohoo!
CK TUAW: you guys are freaks
********** at 3:24 PM arkowi joined the room
Grappik: That's iFreaks, CK.
CK TUAW: anyway, back to Grokster etc
arkowi: hi everybody
Joe: iatom can take itree
********** at 3:25 PM Stephen Searer left the room
Grappik: The problem is, again, that both sides are at fault.
CK TUAW: yes, but there's an imballance
Grappik: The cool thing about all this, is that we are going to get some really cool stuff out of this.
People are "damning the man", and making their own content available. Less headaches.
CK TUAW: b/c one side has TONS of money
CK TUAW: and the other has lots of distributed dollars
Grappik: Podcasts are the future.
CK TUAW: so what is the solution?
Grappik: Video casts are coming.
CK TUAW: but all of this effects podcasts
CK TUAW: and vidcasts
arkowi: Google just launced their playback on their video search today
Joe: a new way to have p2p network
CK TUAW: b/c if I accidentally broadcast a vid cast with a trademarked logo in the background
arkowi: (no mac software of course)
Grappik: There is a revolution happening, that some folks aren't seeing the good side of.
CK TUAW: it can become problematic
CK TUAW: that bugs me about Google
arkowi: i agree
CK TUAW: about most companies actually
CK TUAW: but especially Google
CK TUAW: b/c I really want them to "not be evil"
Grappik: What bugs you?
CK TUAW: and I think being an internet company
Joe: have you seen that one movie about google
arkowi: and it even says this on the about page for google video
arkowi: "just enter your search, like ipod"
CK TUAW: they should make all of their products compatible with as many different OSes as they
can
arkowi: http://video.google.com/video_about.html
CK TUAW: instead of trickling out the Mac support a month or two down the tube
arkowi: if ever
Grappik: Google has been pretty good, though. Some companies forsake the Mac.
CK TUAW: yes
Joe: ya
arkowi: i still dont think there is a mac version of the keyhole software
********** at 3:29 PM Scott McNulty joined the room
CK TUAW: but we had to wait a while for Google Maps
Grappik: There is. It's Google Maps.
CK TUAW: and we're still waiting for Picasa
CK TUAW: and desktop search
Joe: iphoto
Scott McNulty: Oh, no, C.K. is in here!
CK TUAW: which I don't really want, but that's not the point
Grappik: Hi Scott.
Scott McNulty: hey Grap
CK TUAW: heh
CK TUAW: I just told scott that it was kicking in here
Grappik: I think Apple has to do with some of this.
arkowi: Picassa and Desktop search, good thing we have both of those built into the OS
Joe: mac user don't really need it
arkowi: in iPhoto and Spotlight
Scott McNulty: I hate iPhoto with a passion
Grappik: Adobe won't release Photoshop Album on the mac, and I am sorry, but I think it is
superior to iPhoto.
arkowi: hahaha
CK TUAW: but that's not the point
Joe: no
CK TUAW: we may have alternatives
CK TUAW: but so does Windows
CK TUAW: so why not another from Google?
arkowi: i am at work on a PC and I dont even want to look at this google video stuff, cause its
gonna tick me off if its cool
CK TUAW: lol
Andrew Kaufmann: on the other hand, they're a private company looking to make a profit -- why
should they spend money on something they don't feel is profitable? They're not a charity
arkowi: haha
Grappik: Uhh, CK, the video viewer is available for the Mac...
arkowi: i cant find it
Andrew Kaufmann: I want them to release everything for Mac... but I defend their right (and not
just right, but lack of obligation) to not do something they don't think is profitable
CK TUAW: I was going by what arkowi told us
Grappik: On their "Video Help" page, they link to VideoLan...
CK TUAW: pfff
Grappik: Their viewer is VideoLAN...
Grappik: 0.8.2
Joe: lol
Grappik: http://video.google.com/video_help.html
arkowi: i am going by the google site
arkowi: http://video.google.com/video_download.html
Grappik: So am I.
CK TUAW: but that's not the same as full support
Joe: so
Grappik: VideoLAN is VideoLAN, though.
CK TUAW: so it irritates me
CK TUAW: yes
arkowi: sorry i missed that, i am stealth surfing at work
arkowi: im still pissed
CK TUAW: lol
arkowi: hahah
CK TUAW: I'm with arkowi
Grappik: Tell that to Homeland Security.
CK TUAW: oof
arkowi: someone with VideoLAN go try it
Joe: scott
Scott McNulty: Joe?
Joe: bill
CK TUAW: keeps telling me that 'video is not available"
Scott McNulty: ok, I'm confused
Grappik: Has to have a triangle on the link.
Andrew Kaufmann: dave
Andrew Kaufmann: hal
********** at 3:37 PM Grappik left the room