Princeton to launch DRM'd textbook program
posted August 6th 2005 11:30AM
Yeah, we're all for education embracing current
technology, but not like this. Princeton is going to be offering digital textbooks to students starting this fall
semester, in partnership with Missouri-based MBS Textbook Exchange, Inc. Students pick up a barcoded textbook card and
activate it at the cash register, and can then go online for a one-time download of a PDF version of the textbook.
Here's where it goes wrong: the digital textbooks are only discounted 33 percent off their printed counterparts, and
are slathered in a DRM scheme which prevents copying or burning to a CD, limits printing to small passages, locks the
file to the computer you downloaded it to, and expires the book after 5 months. So let's see — your laptop gets fried?
Gotta buy a new book. Going home for break and the book is on your dormroom desktop machine? Tough luck — no printing,
neither, y'hear? No returns or buybacks, either. Wow, what a deal! Thank goodness we're living in the digital
age.
UPDATE:
Dear Engadget Editor,
You are using a protected image (Princeton University's shield with
scroll) on your website without permission. Please remove this image from http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000153053372/ ASAP.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Sincerely,
Thomas Bartus
Office of Communications
Princeton University
Dammit, I go to Princeton High School and I got all excited.
what about selling or giving the eBook away when you're done with the course? You can do this with normal books. Students are able to sell back the books that they don't want anymore after the semester is over so other students can purchase used books. Just because the media is digital, for some reason it has special rules and is treated differently then traditional media? This is why people circumvent DRM. "If you treat me like a criminal, then I'm going to act like one."
Glad i don't go to Princeton
i mean, unless you have a laptop (i don't know if Princeton requires a laptop or not), this would just be inconvenient for the students with desktops. What if you want to go to the library to study? Gotta bring your laptop (if you have one). What about conveniences such as highlighting and writing notes in the text (i guess it's possible with Acrobat, but still...).
And the fact that it expires after 5 months...what if you need to reference it for a future course you take. Go buy another copy?
the fact that it's 33 percent off the printed counterpart....I know in Cornell you can sell used textbooks back for 50 percent (and you can buy used books for a lower price). In the end, students are at a loss, and it's just another example of the bureaucracy being stingy and cheap trying to cut corners.
Wow, I understand the need to protect the content in a similar way that copyrighted paper books are protected, but this is _scary._ iTunes was able to impose a pretty lenient DRM, I don't see why these e-books should be any different - you should be able to put them on 3+ computers and print all the pages you want, since you can, ya know, photocopy book pages! And I can't believe they EXPIRE after 5 months, that's probably the worst part.
Jack's comment about criminals is a well-known and appropriate one - give it a week and there'll be a hack, as well there should be! Especially for only a 33% discount!
Well, let's see. Locks only keep an honest man honest. That doesn't keep me from locking my car. DRM is a reality. There is no other way to protect intellectual property. Show me a better way.
I'd like to see the e-version bundled with the printed version for a small mark up - maybe 20%. As long as the printed version remains available, you don't have to buy anything with DRM. When the print version goes away, then I would get more unhappy about this.
Barb, you seem unhappy that the discount is ony 33%. Do you know how much the physical book adds to the total cost of a book? Typically 10-20 percent - tops. There is a lot more to producing a book than putting ink on paper.
"What if you laptop gets fried?" Yeah, and what if your dorm burns down? OK, so laptops are more likely to get fried (or stolen) then your dorm burning, but still the odds are remote.
The lack of re-use is an issue, but don't most editions get replaced in less than a couple of years just to limit the re-use potential anyway?
The only part of this I find objectionable is the 5 month expriation.
"Well, let's see. Locks only keep an honest man honest."
That's funny locks didn't keep nixon honest.
It's rather surprising that this actually got so far - you would have thought someone somewhere in the planning would realize what a shoddy deal it is.
>>3. Posted Aug 6, 2005, 11:54 AM ET by H_to_tha_O
Exactly, at Cornell we are guaranteed 50% of the cost when selling our books.
In the end, at Princeton or Cornell, the textbook business is just legalized robbery.
Why don't they just give them away for free and add a cost to the course?
Textbook sales ANYWHERE are legalized robbery.
Wow. Thank goodness for PrtSc and MS Word... let the copyright infringement/piracy begin!
Its too early to comment on this......
the saddest part of all of this is that companies still charge like $400 for a textbook.
If they sell any of these books I would be shocked. Aren't people going to a school like Princeton supposed to be the top in the country? We'll if they're dumb enough to fall for this scam, and they're supposedly some of the leaders of tommorow....have mercy on us all.
And then the very next year they release yet another new edition of the text which has a new picture on the cover and five chapters moved around, effectively making all used textbooks worthless.
Hell no!! If they are gonna to charge rent, which is what this is, at least let is be a little more reasonable. If I buy something, its mine to keep. Somebody will crack it or otherwise find a way around the restrictions. DVD-Jon to the rescue?
Sorry, another comment - this is completely the opposite of what MIT is doing with their OpenCourseWare program (open source courseware, past exams, and lecture notes).
It appears MIT is more interested in putting their students first, and Princeton is more interested in putting the multi-million dollar book industry first.
At Sheridan College in Oakville, Ontario, when you buy the textbook, you get a ebook version on CD with it, so you don't have to take your textbook everywhere. The ebook cannot be ripped or burned or copied (at least in an easy manner), and if you sell the book back to the college you must return the CD with it.
Though, if you sell the book to a friend you can keep the CD, or vice versa. It works out well.
Yeah, the 50% buyback thing at Cornell is only if your book is being used again the next semester. So if you're in a fall-only course, waiting till May to sell is somewhat risky because by then there's a chance there's a new edition, but if not you're golden.
Whatever; lately I've been getting books used from Amazon that are much cheaper but generally cheaply made and meant for sale in Asia or something. I would never want a digital version of a textbook anyway because I have a desktop and I do a lot of library studying far away from Internet access so I don't get distracted by, well, Engadget...
Um, where did this information come from? I go to Princeton and this doesn't sound like my school at all. First off, where is this story referenced from? My money is on a press-release from the seedy folks at MBS Textbook that completely misrepresents what's actually going on.
MBS Textbook is connected to many college bookstores, including the Princeton University Store (pustore.com) which is 100% seperate from the University itself. I really doubt this is something connected solely to Princeton.
Remeber, Princeton is the home of Ed Felton (www.freedom-to-tinker.com) and Alex Halderman (www.cs.princeton.edu/~jhalderm/). We're not exactly DRM-friendly around here.
To the previous poster: Princeton does not require laptops.
I have to disagree with ThomD. I am all for being honest and I no longer attempt to justify piracy and copyright infringement (I admit to my share of music downloading in the old Napster days), but the limitations on these textbooks at Princeton are far too excessive. Part of the value of textbooks is keeping them for future reference. I am currently working on an MBA part time and my employer reimburses me for my books and tuition. As such, I have kept all my textbooks for reference. With this program, I would not have that luxury and I would really not be compensated (only a 33% discount) sufficiently for the loss of this benefit. Furthermore, I have had at least two textbooks that I have used in more than one course. I did not have to back and buy a new textbook for that - I just reused my existing copy at no additional expense.
But even more odious is that fact that you are essentially being charged almost the same cost for limited use. I understand that the physical book is only a small portion of the cost, but you are not charged on a usage basis since you can read it as long as you like or sell it to other to read as often as they like (with no renumeration to the publisher I would add). Here you pay the price for the content but only get to use it for five months! That is a MASSIVE price increase.
I would actually like the system used for Harvard Business Case Studies. You download the protected PDF from their website. You download the unlocking software (Sealed Media). You can access the case on any computer with the unlocker software AND you can print full copies of the case (multiple times as far as I know). The PDF does expire after six months and to use it you have to buy a new license, but with the ability to get a hard copy archive, you are not limited on future usability.
This isn't an official Princeton University initiative... it's a small little program the U-Store (an independent entity that sells school stuff to students on campus) it trialing w/MBS Books.
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14983864&BRD=1091&PAG=461&dept_id=425695&rfi=6
Isn't this this a choice issue? I don't think they stopped printing the books. You can always get a printed book if you like. And if you have a ton of extra cash and want the convenience of carrying it with you in your laptop or tablet PC then you can purchase the download too. For those who only want the download, then the DRM sucks. I guess they should sell them the same way you buy a CD. You should at least have access indefinitely. But again, you do have a choice.
As long as there's a choice, I don't think there's a reason to get outraged over this. The seller has the right to set the terms by which he'll agree to sell the product - e.g., $49 for 127.5 days of use, and you have to stand on one foot to read it. If you don't like the terms, don't buy it. Buy the print version instead. At no point are you justified in breaking copyright laws. And there's no law (nor a strong argument IMO) that electronic books have to be sold under the same terms as printed texts (copyable, resellable, own it forever, etc.).
Perhaps if there's insufficient demand, the seller will loosen the terms.
The problem arises when the buyer has no choice at all. This happens in the general textbook market as well as in medicine - where the person making the decision on what needs to be bought (the professor or the doctor) is not the person who has to pay (the student or the patient). Many professors take into consideration the cost of the textbooks that they require; hopefully they'll also consider the DRM terms that students find acceptable.
"Barb, you seem unhappy that the discount is ony 33%. Do you know how much the physical book adds to the total cost of a book? Typically 10-20 percent - tops. There is a lot more to producing a book than putting ink on paper."
Yeah, can't forget the three-million-percent markup.
half assed DRM broken by a smartypants princeton student in 3,2,1....
As someone on the other side of the fence (ie: a Prof), I try to be very reasonable when picking textbooks for my classes.
If it's over $100, it's out. If it's revised on a yearly basis with BS revisions (ie:changing tiny sections and page numbering, and maybe some review questions at the end of the chapter), it's out.
I think the average price of my texts is probably in the $45 range, and I always suggest that students wait a couple weeks into the semester before buying so they know what they actually need (a lot of my texts are as extra reference material for those who need extra help or want to study beyond the cirriculum).
In rare cases if only expensive texts are available, I'll buy one myself through our department, and write my own summaries and examples based on theirs (being careful to not plagerize their text).
Most of my stuff is powerpoint slides on a projector, combined with handouts anyway.
N.
At least two of the reactions to Princeton's electronic book scheme misused the word "then." In a discussion about universities and books, you would think that the writers would know that "then" is an adverb, telling when (as in "I bought the book, then I downloaded the electronic version). "Than" is a conjunction used between the comparison of two descriptions (She is smarter than she looks). I see this mistake all the time and hope to help a few people improve their English.
By the way, what happens to your electronic textbook if your birthday comes around and you get a new computer? Do you have to keep the old one around just to read your book?
Talk about bad timing. Wikipedia's founder just announced his next step is free textbooks.
Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but you are MUCH better off if you get your books off india.
Me and my friends have been buying engineering texts off india for a semster now, it's great especially they kept changing editions which makes resell value -> 0.
So when my eBook expires after 5 months, are they giving me 50% of the cost back that I paid for it?
In response to #16 - MIT opencourseware involves SOME lecture notes and SOME syllabi for SOME courses. MIT is not handing out textbooks, in pdf format or otherwise.
The opencourseware system was probably innovative 5-10 years ago or so, but now with many university course websites having public content, including equivalent content to MIT and CMU's systems, there's not much difference.
Take a look at this:
http://www.cs.princeton.edu/academics/coursesched.php
notice all the higher level courses with open information (unlike the opencourseware system) and please, check your facts before making unfounded claims about Princeton.
For the record, I think this DRM textbook idea is ridiculous, and I'm quite sure the undergrads here will continue to buy their books in physical form.
Richard Stallman's "The Right to Read" 1997 essay:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
What useless shite. Just fullscreen the pages you need to print and "print screen" capture them to the clipboard, then print. Yeah it's a lame workaround, but whatever.
Ah, just when you thought a dweeb was only a dweeb... It was bad enough that they would institute such an asinine policy, but then to harrass you about simply using their logo? My goodness, what ARE we coming to? Let's just say my opinion of higher-ed, and this institution in particular, has NOT gone up.
How could you take the shield down? What happened to fair use? Methinks Princeton University_TM just didn't like the story.
I can tell you from experience that the Ustore is already a rip off. I certainly won't buy a book like this in the fall and I can't imagine anyone else I know doing it either. I just wish I could be there when they fire the guy who thought this up.
RE the Sheild. Wikipedia is useing an image of the shield - under fair use.
Meh.
I'm pretty sure the shield thing is a hoax.
People at Princeton like to think that they're the smartest students in the country. (And no, I didn't graduate from Yale or Harvard, but worked with Princeton students for years after I graduated from a different university.) As for the issue of the image, they're also pompous asses who think they're all lawyers. Fair use lives. Put the shield back where it belongs. Bunch of spoiled weenies at Princeton.
If they allow you to download the pdf to a linux machine, you can get rid of the DRM by doing pdf2ps and back again with ps2pdf. It strips out the all of the drm allowing you to print the entire thing, and removes the locks.
As 23, 24 & the prof have pointed out, there are plenty of options out there. Other postings have listed other options: buying from Amazon, buying from overseas, sharing, borrowing from the library. If you are so outraged, choose a different option. Plus, if market demand is limited for these e-books, then they won't be offered or changes will be made (i.e. extending the time for access). And for the record, this being a pilot program that offers a limited number of e-books and is taking place at 10 school across the country, not just Princeton.
What I can't seem to figure out is how everyone wants the best of both worlds. With the e-version, you get a discount of 33% upfront. With a print version, you get no discount, but have the promise of reselling it. Maybe you'll get 50% back, maybe 5%, maybe nothing. But that's the risk you take. There are complaints posted about not having access after 5 months and complaints about not being able to sell the book back. Seems to me that if you want access to it after the class ends, then you wouldn't be selling it back anyway. You can also print the book, just not the whole book at once. So if you really need a portion of the book later, you can print it for reference.
Also, some e-books are offered at a 50% discount, but just not through this specific program.
Quote:
Sorry, another comment - this is completely the opposite of what MIT is doing with their OpenCourseWare program (open source courseware, past exams, and lecture notes).
That is not really an accurate comparison. MIT didn't ban the use of textbooks when it announced the Open Courseware initiative. If an MIT prof writes a textbook, he or she will still get royalties, whether the book is used for classes at MIT or anywhere else.
Conversely, Princeton could adopt Open Courseware for lecture notes and the like, with zero impact on their ludicrous e-text rental scheme.