Microsoft's closing and locking Xbox 360 peripherals
posted Aug 11th 2005 8:40AM
This ain't no wishy-washy Made For iPod program here—Microsoft's officially playing some classic monopolistic moves with the way companies can make devices for the Xbox 360. You guessed it, only authorized peripherals (i.e. devices made by companies who are giving MS a cut of the scratch) deemed as such by a security mechanism they've engineered into the 360 will be able to connect to, control, or be used by the console. Yes, yes, we know many companies have tried to make sure they get a cut of device sales from third party manufacturers, but to the best of our knowledge never before have any actually attempted to prevent reverse engineering of any kind or lock said third parties out—so the $64,000 question is whether or not Microsoft will actually enforce this and try to use the DMCA to overturn the kind of fair reverse engineering that was most popularly noted after AMD's 1975 Intel 8080 clone. We know what we think, but what do you think?
I give it a month before we hear the same announcment from Sony. They can never resist a chance to stick some proprietary locking system on anything they make, and if Microsoft is doing it . . .
This sucks.
To be honest I'm surprised it's taken this long for something like this to happen.
It'a always seemed odd to me that any Far Eastern Company with plastic making kit can churn out endless numbers of really crappy controller knock offs, without any sort of monetary or legal comeback.
There is some really nasty stuff out there, and it shouldn't be allowed really.
Having said that, MS will get flack for this. Mainly becasuse of who they are, but also because they could easily make a huge mess of this a limit some of the more interesting peripherals ever surfacing.
Also they'll have to careful the price they charge for the licence is fair and realistic. It's only right that any console maker should see cash from companies make money from their product.
To be honest though I've got to think they'll be OK about stuff. If you look at their Certified Drivers scheme on the PC, they tend to be fairly cool about who and what they let through, as long as the standard is there.
As long as the companies build and design stuff to a high enough standard, and pay a fair fee for the right, I can see this being a good thing.
As long as they are responsible about it anyhoo.
I understand WHY MS is doing this, but I think it's a horrible move on their part. As of right now the iPoo rules the mp3 player market **shudder**, and we all know Steve Jobs isn't going to give Mr.Gates a cut of it. All this means is that very few players will infact be supported by the 360, meaning a lot of lost customers.
Although this definitely has to do with MS trying to make more money, I wouldn't be surprised if this also has to do with trying to prevent products such as Action Replay from being made. Live is a big part of their plans and this would be a way for them to stop cheaters.
I think a great deal of companies are behaving very stupidly right now. They see this as netting them more profit, but I think it could easily prove to cost them far more than they will ever gain.
What is the lifespan on this console going to be? 5 years if history tells us anything. So, in that 5 years will there be enough income from these licensed peripherals to pay back the money spent developing the security, the increased manufacturing costs, and other increased costs incurred as a result of this? And what about if someone like Datel DOES reverse engineer the security system? Will those licensing fees subsidize the court battle? And what will the impact on the Xbox360s public image be when Microsoft is removing a product consumers very much desire from the market? I'm thinking of the Game Genie type products, which are always a chink in the armor of security for a console and therefore don't have a chance in hell of ever being licensed by Microsoft for production.
This happened before... When Galoob first came up with the genius invention that was the Game Genie, Nintendo fought them tooth and nail. For years. I was probably only 10 or 11 years old, but I followed the court battles as closely as I could through gaming magazines. And I came to despise Nintendo and their legal team. When the next generation came around, I didn't forget the ill will Nintendo had engendered in me. I asked for, and got, a Sega Genesis that Christmas.
I don't know if my experience was singular, and I realize that most people would simply whine and complain for a little while then buy the next thing anyway (just look at all the mindless zombies propping up EA, buying their products even after footage of their CEO eating live babies was aired on CNN), but ill will is not something a manufacturer should be pursuing. Especially when you're the underdog in a fight.
I'm not siding with them, but it is only logical. How many other companies will benefit from the 360 that may have never given a dime to MS even so much as a developer's kit, or licensing agreement etc?
I think the question comes as to whether these kind of practices will protect MS profit margins, or alienate end users. *cough*Sony Electronics*cough*
Another indication that Microsoft just-doesn't-get-it.
The fact that they are rushing this console out the door, plus the fact that they are locking down any way of improving it is a big mistake.
By the time the other consoles come out the 360 is going to be old-hat and will need some kind of upgrade to keep up to the standards of the latest gaming system.
Does MSFT think that people are going to drop their 360 just to go get an Xbox 540 or some half ass upgrade for the full cost?
No... people have a limit to the amount of BS they can put up with from a company, and Microsoft is pushing that limit every time they release something to market.
Huey2k2 - This licensing/royalty fees is only for controllers not MP3 players.
The interesting thing in the Mad Catz agreement is that they can't make wireless controllers only wired ones. Nobody is sure if that's Microsoft's policy for all parties or just Mad Catz. Personally I didn't like 3rd party controllers anyway (mine broke in 6 months where as my Microsoft ones have lived for years). I'm not really suprised by this since they're getting royalties for games, why not controllers as well.
I hope they do implement it. Its clearly only for third-party peripherals anyway... and 99% of the time - they're shite.
You're telling me that an mp3 player won't be considered a 3rd party peripheral to MS?. I am certain if they apply this kinda of fee to controllers, they will apply it to everything else.
As a former employee of an Electronics Boutique I am glad this move is being made. Too many crappy 3rd party pieces of junk were sold and constantly came back defective.
Maybe just maybe, this idea of microsofts will stop those crappy controllers with the fans inside them from being made.
Personally I have always preferred getting peripherals from the og manufacturer. 3rd party controllers and such always seemed to break easier on me. It won't make a difference for me if I do decide to get a 360 or a PS3 because any extras will be from either MS or Sony.
and microsoft was arguing not too long along something about stifling creativity and innovation?
hmm...pot meet kettle.
I think Logitech's equipment is better than most...but I also expect they'll pay MS whatever the cost needed is to get 'official'.
i just don't want to see 2.4ghz controllers! that'd be plain stupid.. way to much usage of that spectrum.
Huey2k2 - Your hate for the iPod has spilled over. You must have anger issues. MicroSoft has already publicly stated that you can use the iPod or just about any USB based MP3 player to transfer music onto the 360.
WizarDru - Logitech is releasing 1 controller at launch time for the 360.
spiker - The controllers are 2.4 ghz, but they use a proprietary technology. Basically it continually spans the spectrum and when it finds that other devices are in that spectrum it avoids using that specific frequency. Designed specifically to avoid interference.
Huey2k2 - Here's a link to the periphals page:
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/peripheralsfactsheet.htm
It would be plain stupid for Microsoft to charge a licensing fee for the 360 to be able to stream/pull content from MP3 players. Nobody would pay that. Nice try at spreading bad rumors.
Say what you will about the move, but calling it "monopolistic" is downright stupid.
MS makes a console. MS makes software for said console. Microsoft licenses games to run on the console. Microsoft licenses hardware to work on the console.
How is this ANY different than the game licensing that has been done by every console manufacturer since (at least) Nintendo's NES? And how is this "monopolistic"? MS doesn't own even 50% of the console market, and even if they did it's a closed system; they have the right to close it up any way they want, just like Apple has the right to put DRM in their OS.
If you want to be one of the mindless Microsoft-hating drones, go ahead. It's the fashion these days, after all. But at least don't make stuff up.
I LOVE this idea. finally, no more crappy controllers that die after 10 hours!
if anything, this will just weed out the shitty peripherals put out by "Far Eastern Company with plastic making kit" and leave us with quality controllers and devices made by good companies that are willing to pony up.
3rd party companies need love too, but they gotta pay!
I think some people are forgetting one very important
fact: most 3rd party controllers suck
Forgetting about Logitech wireless, 3rd party controllers are no where near the quality of 1st party and have the potential (if very small) to break the controller port they are connected to, at least in wired controller situations. Hence why manufactures of the consoles will not fix your broken controller port if they find out a 3rd party controller was used in it (at least I know Sony won't).
I personally think that its a great move by Microsoft to ensure the quality of 3rd party manufactured controllers.
This stifles development on a broad level as it is something that many companies do for many products all in the name of profit. A company can't honestly admit that it is interested in innovation when it does this sort of thing especially when profit is the obvious motivation.
All of you who say 'this is great 'cos some 3rd party stuff sucks and why should they make money on MS back' should really think about this a little longer.
Firstly, 3rd party products have never stopped you buying the official ones. They just added more choice - take it or leave it.
Secondly (and far more importantly) the production of 3rd party additions and spares has a long history in many, many fields. Would you consider it fair if you could only buy your next exhaust from the manufacturer, or their approved resellers? Or tires? Or air filters? Want to build a garage on your house? Better make sure it's from the people who built your house....
This is a long, nasty, slippery slope.
I don't mind this at all. Third-party controllers tend to be terrible and a waste of money. And with the 360 controllers being wireless (and hence prone to more room for error), it's good that they're cracking down on shitty companies making shitty products.
The one crappy thing about the Microsoft wireless controllers is that the USB power adapter (connects to the front of the 360 and charges while playing or when off) is extra. The standard controller requires 2 AA batteries. Probably going to be another $20 since that seems to be the going rate for accessories (i.e. headset, DVD playback, video adapters).
Everyone that has a good product does this. Even ones that don't have a good product do it. Look at Nintendo Gamecube third party software. Third party vendors had to throw nintendo a kickback. Third party vendors will pay it, if they want to develop and sell tons of gear, and the end-user will never know the difference in the end. The street price is 4 to 5 times what it costs to make in China anyway.
The point: Everybody does it. If you don't like it, buy the less popular system. They need the sales.
what microsoft should do is set up a minimal profit gain (like 5% or 10% of third-party sales) so that they get money but dont put off the companies. that's the best balance--or they can just bargain with chinese ppl. we're awesome at bargaining.
Everyone that has a good product does this. Even ones that don't have a good product do it. Look at Nintendo Gamecube third party software. Third party vendors had to throw nintendo a kickback. Third party vendors will pay it, if they want to develop and sell tons of gear, and the end-user will never know the difference in the end. The street price is 4 to 5 times what it costs to make in China anyway.
The point: Everybody does it. If you don't like it, buy the less popular system. They need the sales.
doesn't bother me in the least. The only 3rd party ANYTHING for any of my consoles are Logitech wireless controllers. Most 3rd party products are garbage anyways. I like 1st party peripherals
Perhaps someone can educate me because I don't really understand the strong pervasive anti-third party peripheral sentiment on this thread.
I don't disagree with it, I simply don't understand it. When I was more active in console gaming (and who knows what the future may bring on again) I personally LIKE(D) 3rd party stuff. at that time most of the cross console adapters (ie use you PS2 controllers on your DC and visa -versa) were third party and they worked great (some of them anyway). And were much cheaper than their branded counterparts if such existed at all.
Did Sega ever put out a branded PC link cable for the DC (serious question)? Because all my friends who had/used them loved it. I think mod chips and boot disks can largely be considered 3rd party (some may not consider them 'peripherals' per se though...). And the previously mentioned game genie as well...
Are there a slew of crappy LOW quality 3rd party peripherals out there for each and every console ? There most certainly are. But no one forces you to buy them. Occassionally you find a gem in the rough, and for me that and the hunt for such is part of the fun (admittedly, this is not true for everyone).
Does the strength of this sentiment come from the impact 3rd party stuff has on 1st party stuff (availability/prices) ? That I could understand. I suppose it takes money away from the 1st party, so they are less able and inclined to produce more and better peripherals if people are just gonna go buy cheap knock offs anyway. Yeah I can see that logic...
Truth is I've seen plenty of people get burned with cheap 3rd party stuff (literally in one case involving a 3rd party power adapter...)One of my closest friends (at the time) would every so often look down at his little blue translucent saturn-to-dreamcast controler adapter and sort of snarl very quietly, I'm guessing because in some games the buttons didn't seem to map sequentialy but in some games they worked fine. And sometimes he'd rave about the 'Innovations' adapter I got for him for $4 that worked perfectly, and also allowed you to connect a PS/2 mouse or KB.
And I like using my Saturn/DC/PS2 controllers when playing games on my PC...
Maybe I just like having choice for choice's sake, but I don't see anything wrong with producing 3rd party stuff so long as you're not FORCED to buy it...research into quality/warranties/return policies and such is incumbent on the consummer in my opinion...
Just my $0.02, and I actually would be interested in feedback from more up to date gamers...
They're not allowing 3rd party wireless stuff. They're also not allowing light guns. Looks like no House of the Dead IVfor Xbox 360.
Quite funny, actually. Microsoft prospered over apple back in the day for the sole reason that they allowed anyone and everyone create software and peripherals for their systems (and the hardware they sit on), while apple computers didn't. And now, they're starting to move backwards.
Its obvious -- more people will enjoy the system if allowed to use peripherals of their choice. But i suppose the money hungry will never quit.
I'm glad MS is doing this, I've had horrible experiences with 3rd party controllers that weren't properly tested... including a Dreamcast controller that burned out all of the controller ports in 2 different DC's.
This helps ensure product compatibility. MS isn't gonna just blindly lock people out, they're smart business people there and I think they've earned a little of the gamer's trust if you ask me.
At first I thought it would be great, because we'd see less crap controllers and peripherals in the market. Then I realized MS will probably let anybody who pays the fees to make crap for their system. When I was a kid I though Nintendo's quality control meant it was a good game. It just meant it would actually work when you put it in the system. I'm guessing it'll be the same sort of thing.
This is wrong. Sounds like something Microsoft would try to do. They are trying to monopolize something else now that they are losing to Apple.
Whoops. Looks like we get no keyboard this time around, unless it's a $100 model from Microsoft.
Chris K. and anyone who thinks that this is just a FINE thing to do while running a business as large as Microsoft...
What are you FREAKING STUPID!?!?!?!
Bill Gates should really be taken out with Steve Jobs and locked up somewhere forever for the crap they pull.
Any IDIOT knows that the more optional attachments, ranging in price, from any number of companies, only makes you new xBox 360 a more valuable item to own. The more things people can do with your product is the more apt they will be to purchase one. It's a synergy of happiness that compounds and spreads itself. The LEAST Microsoft could do, as the monopoly they try to be, is to create quality products that don't malfunction and are resistant to security issues. I mean, they're supposed to have the best there right? Wrong.
Actually this has been done before in similiar situations. Nintendo did it on the NES with the Seal of Approval or Quality thing where to get the seal for a game, the developer had to pony up the money. I have seen this story on another website and they mentioned another occurance
I think this model is wrong. Microsoft would earn loads out of this licensing system. But what about doing some good to the consumers. If you a slice of the profits from the accessories makers, would the burden be passed on to us the consumers? Also if i am not wrong you have to pay a licensing fee to maker the accessories, isnt it enough? To ask for a slice of the company's profit is like ripping the company off their hardwork. If you want to be profittable, price your console at a rate which would give you a comfortable profit level.
The EU competition commission is going to live this...
Guarantee you someone hacks it to use iPods and they get sued, then Jack Johnson finds another bandwagon to jump on. =
#33, what world do you live in? As far as PC's are concerned, Microsoft does NOT and NEVER has made a Computer System. Microsoft makes operating systems, SOFTWARE. Get your fact straight.
It was IBM that opened up the PC hardware industry that overtook Apple. Back in the day Microsoft was just one of several vendors that made an operating system that ran on PC hardware.