Creative's new Zen Vision:M (with video)
posted December 7th 2005 1:30AM
Creative is introducing their new Zen Vision:M, an answer to Apple's
5G iPod, and what an answer it is. We know it
gets old hearing every new player get compared to Apple's flagship offering, but can you seriously blame us here? The
specs are vaguely familiar, with a 2.5-inch screen at 320x240 resolution and a 30GB hard drive, though thankfully
Creative squeezed in 4 hours of video playback, doubling Apple's endurance on at least video. (The audio playback conks
out at 11 hours.) The size of the two players is virtually identical, with the Zen Vision:M only changing it up on
thickness — at about twice the iPod's 0.43-inches. They're also forging their own path on button placement, sporting a
layout similar to that of their Zen Micro
Photo, and including a vertical scroll pad. Creative did add their usual FM tuner and voice recording niceties, and
they have a decent list of video format support, including MPEG-4, WMV, Motion JPEG, DivX, and XviD, so this $330
player could turn out to be a worthy candidate for video capable commuting buddy — if Apple's lawyers don't have
something to say about it first. Check out some closeups of interface, erm, borrowing after the jump.
[Via
Apple Brothers]
I said I wouldn't buy another mp3 player for a while... Looks like I'm gonna have to break that promise
Wowza! I don't want to sound like a typical Apple guy that claims that every device that even remotely resembles the iPod is ripping off Apple... but this is a little close (at least the white one) Perhaps it's payback for stealing/using the Nano in their player? Also, considering my 30GB cost 340 (Canadian) the Apple brand appears to be cheaper (while lacking fm tuner, etc)!
Ha - nice photography to make them look sleeker than they really are. Does anyone get the heiroglyphic icons? But props on the XviD and DivX support.
Hmm, now where have I seen something that looks like that before. Come on Creative, be original...
right. and no one uses divx or xvid either. worthless.
Jesus, biggest friggin' iPod knock-off ever!
This is actually a pretty sleek player. Weighs the same as the iPod v5, but it's definitely thicker. The menu system is a bit nicer and the video stuff works way better...so yeah, it looks kinda like an iPod, but it has enough more than enough differences to make it noteworthy. Also, Xvid and WMV support mean that you don't have to pay for some crappy MPEG4 software to get your videos in the right format and size.
Creative is a clear winner with this device
everytime an ipod dies
an angel gets a pair of wings
(0o)/
WMV (320x240/700kbps and 320x240/436kbps MPEG4 and DivX 4/5, XviD (720x480/3Mbps and 640x480/2Mbps recommendation)
MPEG2 (640x480/2.5Mbps and 640x480/2Mbps
MPEG1 (640x480/1.15Mbps and 352x288/1.15Mbps
Motion-JPEG (640x480/2.5Mbps)
Still picture:JPG(8 Mega pixels)
I don't see how you think the menu system looks nicer...the controls are alot complicated...so not nicer there...and the actual menu itself is an exact rip off of the ipods menu...explain.
I'd get this over a video ipod anyday, however I still wouldn't buy either because I'm assuming the Vision:M is like the regular Vision in that it doesn't support soft subtitles.
Otherwise it's a great player, but soft subs are a requirement for me. Cowon A2 here I come.
well this player looks rather good, probably one of the better ones creative ever has [and the most copied from apple's design team]. creative should spend more time designing products which appeal design-wise.
Apple's Menu...for comparison.
http://www.connectedhomemedia.com/Visual/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=44484
Too bad you dont need to pay anything to get xvid converted into mpeg that is ipod compatible. I like the reflection of the player below it.... looks like some other companies ad's. I dunno why everyone always praises FM and a mic as a better feature that makes that player a better buy. I listen to the radio going to work cause I dont have an ipod dock for the car and my cellphone does recordings also and I have used it maybe once in the last 2 or 3 years. Cheaper slimmer and much more integrated seems like a better buy to me.
Well, I can tell you that I used the mic on my Zen today in a meeting (I forgot my notebook and the quality was DAMN good), and I frequently use the FM tuner to catch ball games and shows while doing stuff in the yard, so I'd say they're worth it.
Granted, I also don't get the appeal of ipods (other than some sheep like reflex to be like the cool kids). I'm fairly interested in this device also since it means I can plug it into subscription music services and load up, plus toss on the occasional video (ok, not really a major issue). I am curious if there will be a way to output the video for sharecasting.
I don't understand why companies bother to put in FM radio and so rarely AM. I need AM for traffic reports, weather conditions, road conditions, avalanche warnings, etc.
#7 - "and the actual menu itself is an exact rip off of the ipods menu"
You must be some obsessed iPod fan because if you new anything about mp3 players then you would know that Apple took Creative's menu system and copied Creative's design. Chalk a lack of creativity up for Apple on that one. Get your facts straight.
At 19mm instead of the iPod's 11, It's almost twice as thick.... yuck
#12
Actually, Apple created it first (the design and menu). As the original inventor of the iPod I would know, since I created it.
Nice Effort though.
Actually, Creative managed to get a U.S. patent on the menu system that Apple uses (the name is Directory based browsing system or something like that). So if Apple does try to sue Creative for the resemblance, Creative can countersue on the interface aspect. Since Apple's biggest plus is its interface, they might be reluctant to sue Creative.
#14
Creative's Patent
"The patent, which the company calls the Zen Patent, covers Creative's interface for portable players, which allows users to select a song, album or track by navigating a succession of menus. The patent office awarded the patent on Aug. 9."
"the company first shipped music players with the navigation system in September 2000, and filed the patent application in January 2001. Apple announced the iPod in October 2001."
Nice effort.
The black one looks nice! If it has a better viewing angle than the Zen Vision with good pricing to the Ipod Video, I might considered this one.
According to the link sources, the playback for movies is twice that of Ipod Video. Great, just what I am looking for in a way, I need a recorder to record down lectures.
BRAVO CREATIVE! BRAVO CREATIVE!!! THIS IS PRETTY BADASS, WHEN IS IT COMING OUT???????? I WANT ONE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All creative basically did was add several basic functions that barely anyone use, make it fatter, uglier, and added their own buttons. Voila, a Creative Zen Vision:M
Yet another product to add to Creative's ridiculously large MP3 player lineup that will be yet another huge flop like all the others that came before it.
#14
Creative's Patent
"The patent, which the company calls the Zen Patent, covers Creative's interface for portable players, which allows users to select a song, album or track by navigating a succession of menus. The patent office awarded the patent on Aug. 9."
"the company first shipped music players with the navigation system in September 2000, and filed the patent application in January 2001. Apple announced the iPod in October 2001."
Nice effort.
While there's nothing really wrong with this thing, Creative is going to have to stop reacting and start innovating if they ever want more than 5% (or whatever they have) of this market. Regardless of who did what first, to the general public this looks like an iPod knockoff. And while it has a couple features that will appeal to a couple thousand geeks (divX, etc.), it has some big disadvantages for the millions of average non-geek consumers (thickness, limited capacity). This will do nothing to save Creative's floundering ass. Which is too bad, because I would really like to see someone put some competitive pressure on Apple. They are phoning it in, but when the best their competition can manage is "me too, but with an FM tuner", phoning it in is good enough.
Are these going to be out before christmas? I seriously am considering buying one. Xvid and Divx support is absolutely fantastic.
Twice as thick? Ew. That button interface looks like it would suck. I'd have to try it first, but it doesn't look nice. I've used their vertical scroll before and hated it.
If this thing is more durable and less scratch-prone than my ipod then im buying one. The video formats this thing supports is good too. I suspect theyre being released in Japan first so im guessing theyll be out here in a couple of months.
#25
Good point. "Regardless of who did what first, to the general public this looks like an iPod knockoff."
Sucks that everyone compares everything to the iPod, which IMO is a very poor mp3 player compared to some others (cowon, samsung).
Looks like Creative will keep with their id3 tag menu system. Why can't these major mp3 makers realize that there are people who hate that system and prefer a file folder system? This will be the only reason I won't buy one.
Amazing, looks JUST like another certain product I COULD SWEAR I've seen before somewhere ;-)
Are you kidding me. I just shelled out $400 for a Zen Vision. It looks like the only difference with this one though is that they made the screen smaller so they could make the overall dimensions smaller. Why so thick, though?
The good news is that I still love the beautiful screen on my ZV. I'm undecided though.
Ok...about this apple-stole-from-creative tit-for-tat-bs:
The Creative patent is pure bunk...and they know it. I'd wager they made this UI to try to prod Apple since Apple hasn't responded to their patent in the first place.
The fact of the matter is, the iPod UI emulates the OSX Finder column view, which was adapted from the NeXT UI and "aquafied"
Now while creative did have a menu system on their mp3 players (I know, i bought a couple of them before the iPod was intro'd) none of them were like the NeXT/Openstep UI.
I personally think its rather lame of a company named "Creative" to try to pull this crap, and I hope that Apple brings all of its IP and prior art to the table and sends Creative back home weeping.
Perhaps then, like a previous poster said, they will innovate again like they did with the Jukebox instead of this sadness.
And it is *sad*, because I have to say that the codec support should sell it to the geek crowd alone.
Taking the iPod's distinctive UI and sticking it in their player pretty much tells the tale:
"We can't make a more appealing player than Apple's without dipping ito the MacOS X UI"
i'm with #26 (scott). to ad to that, these are advertised (and accepted as) portable audio players, WITH video--their main function is music playback. on that note, creative's 11 hours is considerably less than apple's 14 hours. as a closing note, "almost twice the thickness" is the kiss of death--too many people (including myself) like to carry things in their pockets.
Who cares about originality and patents. NOTHING IN THIS WORLD IS ORIGINAL. The only thing that concerns me is that this thing supports XVID and DIVX and has twice the video time (@ 4 hours) that my current ipod does. I just might be buying this bad-boy when it comes out.
Funny, no body seems to see what Apple is offering on it's video ipod, which is a complete solution for the general public. Do you expect your 50 years old mom, or your computer dumb girlfriend to be able to convert all the videos into divx or what so ever? For the general public, with one click, they can have good quality and legal videos on their ipod to go. No all people are as geek as us will spend hours converting all the video and transfer to the players. I think, unless any other mp3/pmp companies come out with a better solution than Apple's, it will always be the geeks' toy only.
Yay for Creative.... now when does it come out? I see it as a way to visually see my songs somehow...
This is one fine mp3 player that's heftily borrowed from Apple and is better off for it (regardless of your feelings about Apple or Creative or whether or not it's innovative, you know as well as I do why Creative's UI looks the way it does - and I don't blame them for it), but it won't sell to the general public. It'll sell great to geeks (I mean, who doesn't have just about everything of theirs encoded in XVid/Divx?), but last I checked, we don't make up a majority (a shame, really). Why? People seem to forget the razor/blade relationship between the iPod and the iTMS (though I can never really tell which is which) - what with the number of shows added to the "TV Shows" section today, I can more or less guarantee iPod market domination once again this coming year. Yes, Creative can offer XVid support for all the illegal movies you bittorrent, but Apple can offer a way to download and watch the episode of "Law and Order" you just missed (granted at a low quality than it could or should be, but the rise of mp3/lossy audio codecs in general is pretty indicative that people are far more utilitarian and look for convenience, so long as it looks/sounds "good enough").
But for those that opt to purchase this Zen, I hope that DVD Jon gets cracking on the DRM - if this thing could play back video downloaded from the iTMS, it'd be a nice bonus.
I don't care how it looks, compared to the iPod. But if it won't work with my Mac, it's pointless.
even thought I dont own a video ipod(i have a 30g photo.......) i still think buying the video from the itunes store make it so unique in comparing to other players on the market. i just check their current selling line-up, now NBC is joining it... crazy... I would like to see FOX and Comedy Central on the iTMS too...
looks good, but the menu look very similiar to hte iPod's
Great effort by Creative.
So what that it looks like an iPod, don't all TV's, celphones, cars etc. look alike! It's just another step in the universification of these mobile devices, finally! Let's just call it the cPod for all I care :)
Still from a device twice as thick you'd expect a better video performance as well as audio, what's up with that?
Keep it up Creative, Apple etc. this way we get better gadgets!
I don't care that its a rip, or knock off of the iPod. General consumers want something thats convenient and works best, unless you're a fashion conscious junkie.
The iPod is a great machine, no doubt! But even though this wont sell as well as the iPod vid, i'll be sure to get one in the near future for the following reasons:
1) It looks great, unoriginal, but about the same dimensions as the iPod Vid except for thickness, hell, it even weighs the same.
2) It supports more formats, pretty much every common video format that you can download off the web, and just drag and drop onto the creative, no need for this bloody syncing mish-mash
3) Double the battery life <--- for me this is the deciding factor,...As much as I love Apple (I own and love my powerbook and soon to get a next gen mini mac), this is their biggest boo boo. Most modern movies, or drama's are 2+ hours long, creative crosses this thresh hold. I wouldn't wanna be watching an iPod during a flight/trip and have the battery die half way through a movie, i'd be majorly pissed.
My only concern up till its release is the actual quality of the screen, then I can determine wether it really is a worth the purchase or not!
What about TV Out?
There really is nothing original AT ALL about this design. Check out the small pics of some of their accessories, such as...
A very white looking "dock"
http://images.jp.creative.com/images/inline/japan/products/VM_ds/VM-DS-pdt.jpg
and
a remote that is nearly the exact same layout and design of the (old) iPod remote
http://images.jp.creative.com/images/inline/japan/products/Zen_Neeon/zenNeeon_wiredrc.jpg
Creative has to be crazy to think the Apple legal team isn't going to come after them for at least something.
Are you mad? H.264 blows DivX and Xvid away. It's the codec used on HD DVDs and Blu-ray disks as well as the BBC's HD library. It scales down too which is why it's used on mobile phone networks and in the iPod. It's the standard codec for Digital TV. That's why it's used.
There's endless FREE utilities on the net to convert almost any video format to iPod sized H.264 MPEG4 video.
But as ever in these discussions, people forget about the other half of the iPod's success - iTunes. Creative's, Sony's and anyone else's players would stand a better chance if it wasn't such a pain in the arse getting songs on to them and managing your library.
Be aware, divx support doesn't mean all your divx movies will be supported... I just returned my regular zen vision; though it supports divx 4 and 5, it doesn't support divx 3, and it doesn't support ac3 audio. That counts for about 60% of my collection i found. Not only that, but it really seems like creative doesn't care about these issues. I may sound like I'm predisposed not to like creative, but I wouldn't have bought a zen if I were, I really was turned away from them because of their product (it also froze all the time, and had other issues, and is seems they don't plan on ever fixing the issues...)
-Taylor
I just think it is about time that these big companies like creative starts thinking out the box and could come out with a radical new design of mp3 player, everything is starting to look almost the same these days, maybe go for a slide up feature like some phones have this way you can get more controls on there that makes some thing easy to adjust.
Gross... its so fugly, it looks like something from Fisher Price or to monitor your baby.
QUOTE: "Actually, Apple created it first (the design and menu). As the original inventor of the iPod I would know, since I created it."
don't forget Creative still owns the "Zen patent" on the UI, which Apple also tried to patent but got rejected.