Will XP melt your Mac?

Now that narf and blanka's solution for booting into XP on Intel Macs is out in the wild and people are using it to actually run XP on their Macs, some bugs are showing up. That's not surprising, and we fully expect to see fixes within the near future (though we don't expect Colin to start handing over cash for each bug fix). One rumored bug should, however, give you pause before you decide to use this as anything more than a proof-of-concept: according to a thread on MacRumors, the current XP install doesn't include a fan driver, which means your Mac's fan never goes on. That may not be a big issue if you're using an iMac for limited periods in a well-ventilated space, but if you're planning on running XP on a MacBookPro, you may find things getting mighty hot. We're not dissing narf and blanka here; they won the contest and deserve their $13,000. But you may want to be a little careful before trying out their solution at home.

Update: Well, you can't say Mac users don't hunt down rumors and quash them quickly (though some are, of course, just as guilty of spreading rumors)! It appears that the fans in Macs do indeed go on regardless of which OS is running, though there is apparently some concern about how the fans are regulated by software over time. Several commenters have pointed out that even in some earlier Mac models, running non-Apple OSes (i.e., Linux) could result in the fans running constantly, due to a lack of Apple power-management software. So, the good news seems to be that, no, XP won't melt your Mac. The bad news? Your fans may whirr constantly, causing a bit of noise pollution, and possibly draining your batteries before their time if you're using a MacBookPro. We do have every confidence that narf, blanka and the rest will resolve this issue -- and probably for a lot less than $13,000.

[Thanks, Syl]

[funetik @ Mar 20th 2006 12:42PM]

:D

Pretty piles of melted plastic!

[Mulder @ Mar 20th 2006 12:43PM]

lol,i am melting...

[anon @ Mar 20th 2006 12:44PM]

fan driver, audio drivers, video drivers, porn drivers. All in good time.

[Keng @ Mar 20th 2006 12:47PM]

HAHAH!!!
OS by Dali....weird.

[andy @ Mar 20th 2006 12:47PM]

what no mention of the viruses windows will give you sending the mac into a meltdown

[Andrew Stone @ Mar 20th 2006 12:47PM]

Or you could... you know... run OSX on your Mac and XP on your PC. Just an idea.

[Pete @ Mar 20th 2006 12:50PM]

Not quite. Fans on the MBP may kick on but at a higher temp than when running on OS X.
"Fans have been verified to be working, but are generally only audible under heavy CPU load or when the CPU temperature gets very high. There have been some perceptions that XP is running hotter than Mac OS X, but measurements indicate that maximum case temperatures under XP are no greater than under Mac OS X. CPU frequency throttling is confirmed working on a MBP under XP. Installing the Intel Chipset drivers is recommended.

Maybe this little tool would be a solution: Speedfan"

(From the onmac.net drivers wiki)

[Matt G @ Mar 20th 2006 12:53PM]

Uhh yeah, no way i'm installing XP now.. if there's no FAN DRIVER then yeah, not killing a perfectly good iMac at the fault of a Microsoft operating system lol. Wow that would suck telling your friends.

[StefanW @ Mar 20th 2006 1:03PM]

Is that even possible? Not having a fan driver? Doesn't the motherboard take care of heat related issues, not the OS? I don't know I guess Macs are just weird. Wait, I did know that.

[Tim Buckingham @ Mar 20th 2006 1:05PM]

According to a thread I read, the fans were starting up fine on MacBook Pros at least.

And yes, fans are controlled by the motherboard / BIOS / EFI last I checked.

[E @ Mar 20th 2006 1:06PM]

WTF?

It needs a DRIVER... For a fan?

They couldn't figure out a way to monitor the temp without the OS handling it?

No wonder they are so overpriced.

[gabeosx @ Mar 20th 2006 1:08PM]

That's interesting, because when people first started getting linux running on G5, the fans would go on full blast since there was no driver for them. I wonder why the iMac's fans don't go on full blast by default...

[shoelessone @ Mar 20th 2006 1:10PM]

That seems rediculous...

As I don't even believe there is such a thing as "fan drivers". Thats like saying you need to install drivers to get the power LED working. As far as I know, or at least as far as I can imagine, it would seem to me that the fans are in fact controlled by the mainboard directly, not via OS

[Matt @ Mar 20th 2006 1:11PM]

"Is that even possible? Not having a fan driver? Doesn't the motherboard take care of heat related issues, not the OS?
---------------------

Exactly what I was thinking...why do you need a driver for a fan?

[yangzhou @ Mar 20th 2006 1:11PM]

Fan driver? I thought the fan is controlled by the BIOS or EFI?

[xxdesmus @ Mar 20th 2006 1:18PM]

#7 ...wow, it's just cool to be anti-Microsoft isn't it?

Does this have ANYTHING to do with a fault of Windows?

No. Not even close.

This is a simple problem when you install an OS on a system it was not designed or intended to be installed on.

Go be an Apple fanboy somewhere else.

[Brian Stuckey @ Mar 20th 2006 1:18PM]

If I'm not mistaken, Apple doesn't support APM, does it? Windows XP only supports APM, correct? How does the power managment work with XP on Mac...is everything just set to "always on"....

[some dude @ Mar 20th 2006 1:24PM]

Either you have a very loud mac, with fans blasting at full speed all the time.. or you have a melting piece of plastic...I'm not sure if narf and blanka thought about heat/fan controllers when building their EMI

[Adam @ Mar 20th 2006 1:24PM]

I know for a fact that I

1) Own a Macbook Pro
2) Installed XP on it
3) Used XP on it
4) The Fans turned on

It gets a little warmer than it would when running OS X. Turn on Warcraft on a Macbook and it gets just as hot.

[Michael @ Mar 20th 2006 1:24PM]

Are the fans not wired to run at fulls-speed in absense of a driver on the Imac Core Duo? That is how the Power Mac G5s are designed. When they first came out, running Linux on them would result in the fans running full-tilt since there was no driver. The Power Mac G5's fans also run at full speed for a second or two at boot-up before software is able to control them. I would think the Imacs and Mac Books would be designed the same way.

[yangzhou @ Mar 20th 2006 1:26PM]

Does anyone know if the Intel Core Duo processor in the iMac is the variety that is inside Windows notebooks?

[kaius @ Mar 20th 2006 1:28PM]

i can't beleive this has actually the page.
talk about biased news.

[Tinlad @ Mar 20th 2006 1:29PM]

I think that Engadget has been misinformed. Because there are no fan drivers, the fans default to running at full speed (rather than being temperature controlled).

The theory behind the Macs running hotter is that because there is no graphics hardware acceleration (except on the Intel Mac Mini; a driver has been found), a lot more work is being done by the CPU.

[n1ko @ Mar 20th 2006 1:38PM]

Well thats weird, im using XP on my MBP right now, and I hear the fans. I'll download everest and see what the temps are.

[Jordan @ Mar 20th 2006 1:48PM]

My iMac Core Duo spins the fans up and then the "driver" as they call it (or just the EFI I am guessing) slows them down. Whether Windows (or their bootloader) would or not, I don't know, but I don't think my iMac Core Duo needs OS X to keep it cool.

[Adam @ Mar 20th 2006 1:48PM]

Sigh, sometimes I just have to shake my head. The basic problem is that the CPUs are not being used in any form of low power mode. They are being used as generic X86s. This means they are running SIGNIFIGANTLY warmer than they do in OS X. The same basic concept happens when you run a game or other CPU intensive application. The CPU cannot use any of its tricks to cool down, so it warms up. Is it dangerous? Running Warcraft makes my Macbook burning hot to the touch, but they are made to handle these high temps. For it to damage anything, it has to get REALLY hot. 140 degrees F is a walk in the park to electronics. If it gets hot enough to damage, the firmware steps in and turn the machine off. So, no, Windows will not melt anything and the fans work just fine.

THEY ARE NOT OS CONTROLLED!

Could you imagine what would happen if lets say something really strange happened, like windows locked up on a laptop. When was the last time we had thousand of laptops burting into flames? Lets think people before we speak.

[Adam @ Mar 20th 2006 1:53PM]

Dang, I hate a typo.

burting -> bursting

[WarcraftAddiction @ Mar 20th 2006 1:59PM]

Wow I can't believe that engadget would put something out like that. I guess they been so busy thinking about cell phones they forgot about basic computer functionality. Then again this is a popular Blog and just goes to show how there not edited/rejected stories.

[bobbyd @ Mar 20th 2006 2:03PM]

Don't forget that you also need a power button driver and the driver for your power supply. Windows doesn't have a driver for any of these because with PCs the mobo handles it but with Macs its just alittle more difficult. Make sure the versions match. version 1.6 and 3.9 are nto compatible and you need to make sure both are the same version. hope this helps

Muahaha >=)

[hobgoblin @ Mar 20th 2006 2:18PM]

heh, i would have expected the fan to go full tilt 24/7 unless some kind of software (be it in os of firmware) that was in place to regulate it down. anything else would be silly...

[Dan (thoughtfix) @ Mar 20th 2006 2:25PM]

I KNOW THE TRUTH!

Microsoft anticipated the Intel iMac years ago when it wrote Windows XP Service Pack 2. When the service pack was released, it had special code to detect if it's installed on a Mac and turn OFF the fan! That way people will destroy their Macs!

Yeah! That's it!

[sp1nfer @ Mar 20th 2006 2:29PM]

just everyone's information:
AMD's Cool'n'Quiet technology needs an OS driver aswell, to lower and increase the RPM and thus lowering the unneeded noise when you're browsing with your dog/cat on the net. Enthusiast driver writers should find no problem creating such a driver.

[doyouflip @ Mar 20th 2006 2:45PM]

It's funny...most of the facts on Engadget are posted in the comments by people with real world experience. But people don't seem to read them. They just post their knee-jerk reactions to the blog entries despite the fact that what they're reacting to was already covered in the comments and often explained or refuted.

Clarification: when I say "funny", I mean pathetic.

[trevor @ Mar 20th 2006 2:51PM]

In OSX, the fans are controlled in some part by software but they are also monitored by firmware. You'll notice if you run a utility like AppleJack that runs in single-user mode, after a while, your fans will go full blast because they are not being monitored by the system software.

If you look at the "HD/System/Library/Extensions/AppleADM103x.kext" extension in OSX, it is the one that contains instructions of what temp to start and stop the fans, etc. for most of the computers (powerbooks, g5s, etc).

The Firmware will definitely shut the computer down if it gets too hot and prevent it from melting. PCs and Macs will both do this.

I'd be more interested in how long the battery lasts in XP vs OSX.

[Khaytsus @ Mar 20th 2006 2:58PM]

Why are all the Mac people so stoked about running XP on their expensive Mac hardware? I don't get it..

[drtardis @ Mar 20th 2006 3:03PM]

Really, WHO CARES!

PCs are dead, be it a Mac or the plain Jane PC. They have been dying a slow natural death for a while now, especially for that end-user.

RIP PC/Mac!

Now lets move onto the next generation of keyboardless, mouseless, headless communication/computational tech that will meld human and machine beyond the Terminal/Control Panel/Desktop metaphor legacy that GUIs have evolved into. Jack-up and fasten yo seatbelt, folks ... Its going to be a bumpy ride!!!!

.drt

[Ken @ Mar 20th 2006 3:08PM]

The fans are controlled by both software and hardware. If an operation system is running that doesn't control the fans then the fans will go on at a preset temperature, preventing damage to the computer.

[jared @ Mar 20th 2006 3:11PM]

wait for it...
waiiit for iiiit...
"why would anyone want to run XP on a Mac anyway?"

[Microdot @ Mar 20th 2006 3:16PM]

misinformation? on engadget? no way.

mac's do have a temp sensor. the sensor will not allow the unit to overheat. while it may get a little too hot for some peoples taste... it will not get hot enough destroy your mac or cause damage. now... wrapping it in aluminum foil and baking at 450 on the top rack of your oven.... thats not covered.

[Kim Laughton @ Mar 20th 2006 3:46PM]

doyouflip, sometimes they don't even read more than the title of the post...

[robert fisk @ Mar 20th 2006 3:47PM]

whats wrong with Virtual PC if you need to run Windows, without a PC ?

[ed @ Mar 20th 2006 3:50PM]

what is the big deal about running xp on the mac anyway.....
The machines are the same now, there is no difference. Although I do like the option of running os x on any hardware to speed up some of the great proggies.

[Adam @ Mar 20th 2006 4:00PM]

robert fisk,

Other than VPC being slower than a 400mhz Pentium, lacking in hardware support other than USB, not being a Universal Binary (therefore, even slower on Intel powered Macs), it's fine.

Oh, did I mention it's slow?

[Mike @ Mar 20th 2006 4:10PM]

To take a line from an old song...
"Burn! Baby, burn!"

[Elias C. @ Mar 20th 2006 4:19PM]

@33
Because some people actaully NEED XP because of there jobs, but also want the quality of Apple hardware and the possibility to use OSX if they get bored. Part of the reason for buying a mac (especially their laptops) is because they are very nice looking, compact, yet very solid, so if people can use for their jobs by getting XP on it...all the better. When are the "why would they want to?" comments going to end, please get over it soon.

[Steve @ Mar 20th 2006 4:34PM]

Until someone posts verified information of their Mac overheating running Windows, this is non-news and didn't need to be reported. F-U-D

[Pikl @ Mar 20th 2006 4:49PM]

Does the MacBook even have any ventilation? From the pictures on Apple.com, I can't find any.

...but it must be Windows. No matter what. Mmhmm.

-Pikl

[Josh @ Mar 20th 2006 4:52PM]

"why would anyone want to run XP on a Mac anyway?"


No kidding. If you wanted to run XP why not buy a resonably priced computer that actually has a decent resolution display and doesn't use pathetic integrated graphics...

Oh, that isn't what you meant? Then perhaps you should get a freakin life and quit trolling. People are going to use their computers as they want and it is of little concern to you. If someone wants to pay for style (and macs are attractive looking computers) but for whatever reason wants to run windows that is their perogitive. Being an ass doesn't make you look clever or witty or whatever you were shooting for with your juvinile comment nor is it going to convince them to join your "side", whatever that may be. It just side tracks the conversation (which I suppose I am playing into). Here is a random question for you

wait for it,
wait for it,

"why don't you grow up, get a life, move out of your parent's basement, and actually post comments with some merit"

[Boone @ Mar 20th 2006 5:07PM]

Elias, Josh: Sarcasm. Seriously, are you that dense?

[Jann @ Mar 20th 2006 5:27PM]

This should be removed.

ALL MAC FANS COME ON IN HARDWARE.

They ALSO come on earlier in software to lower the temperature.

THE REASON they come on in hardware is to save the Mac in case of a software failure.

This is soooo wrong. And it just got Dugg!