Vista already getting passed around the internet

It hasn't even been out of the nest a full week yet, but already those nefarious software pirates who drive prices up for everyone else have taken the little birdie known as Windows Vista and begun passing it around the interwebs like a hot potato. A quick search of the more popular BitTorrent sites reveals that numerous copies of the RTM version of Vista are available for download, but being the law-abiding netizens that we are, we can't verify that these are actual working packages or simply 4GB archives of nasty spyware. We really shouldn't have expected anything different from the "free software movement" -- after all, the same thing happened with OS X Leopard after August's WWDC -- but we're sure Microsoft is pleased that this group of "early adopters" has given its latest and greatest product a de facto thumbs up. Just a friendly reminder to everyone who's taken it upon him / herself to load up a copy of the yet-to-be-released OS: enjoy it while you can, because once Redmond starts sending out updates and checking the validity of your install, that boatload of crippled features is going to make your PC a real pain in the ass to operate.

[Thanks, Monsieur Cedric]

[strider_mt2k @ Nov 13th 2006 10:16AM]

Or just keep rolling with XP.

[Zak @ Jan 18th 2007 8:33PM]

Oh yeah

[mike @ Nov 13th 2006 10:20AM]

"is going to make your PC a real pain in the ass to operate."
O you mean the same way WGA is messing with my copies of XP....... o wait....

[UKMuFFiN @ Nov 13th 2006 10:21AM]

I don't think Vista's Vadiation is going to stop the piracy.

[Lewis @ Nov 13th 2006 11:18AM]

Actually, if you've ever used a pirate copy of XP (my chair rolled over my OEM disk), you'll realise how difficult it is to get away with it. A lot of Microsoft software and updates requires WGA. It's just not worth it, and I ended up buying another CD.

Pirating does affect legitimate. It's not like there's huge competition for the average PC user... Linux is often too hard or daunting for them. Also it's not "good for Microsoft because it takes money away from Apple" ... since people pirating it are highly likely already have a PC and can't use OS X anyway.

[shirizaki @ Nov 13th 2006 10:27AM]

Pretty smart of you to throw in the jab about pirates. Yeah, pirates copying an OS, because 1 out of every 2 copies of XP isn't legit. More like 1 out of 1,000. Maybe MS should stop pouring money into a non working key system. What MS should do is encourage it. A person getting Windows for free is a person not turning ito a smug Mac user. If they really cared about not losing their fanbase that is.

From what I heard the size you should be eyeballing is actually 2.4 ish. But there's alot of work to make it not activate validation. So they did actaulyl make it difficult to a point.

[nizzy1115 @ Nov 13th 2006 10:34AM]

From what i was reading on other sites, people were saying that it was the legit thing, except there is no crack for the activation...yet. I hope it never gets cracked either, because i am planning on buying a copy of the software. It will feel like a waste if it gets cracked after i spend my hard earned money on it and everyone else has it for free.

[mike @ Nov 13th 2006 10:39AM]

hate to tell you but there is a crack for activation for the past 2 days.

[chris @ Nov 13th 2006 10:39AM]

Please don't liken the Free Software Foundation and their movement to pirates.

http://www.fsf.org/

[SHOTT3R @ Nov 13th 2006 11:31AM]

Considering nerds and their ilk are usually the more sarcastic people around, I'm amazed so many people don't recognize a sarcastic disparaging jab at pirates for what it is. See the quotation marks, people? "free software movement", it means they are not being literal. In fact the existence of an actual free software movement is why the pun works, and why they had to put it in quotes just to make sure IQ-challenged people realized what they were doing.

[nizzy1115 @ Nov 13th 2006 11:57AM]

But does the "crack" actually let you access windows updates? Or does it just fool the os into thinking you have more days to activate.

[Rohit Kapur @ Nov 13th 2006 11:03AM]

Actually it's not so much a crack as it is a workaround. It'll only allow you to run Vista for 180 days after which it'll lock up.

[mike @ Nov 13th 2006 2:36PM]

Right now you can get updates anyway, so you wont know until they start checking.

[Alex @ Nov 13th 2006 10:44AM]

You honestly think that software piracy drives up the price of Windows? I think you've got another thing coming.

Perhaps it was the 6 or 7 years of R&D that went into this crap-tastic OS.

[Jeff @ Nov 13th 2006 10:45AM]

What the hell does the free software movement have to do with pirates?

That's like saying indie rock bands are all thieves because they're not signed to major record labels.

[kOa7 @ Nov 13th 2006 10:46AM]

It is really ignorant to call this the "free software movement." Lots of people have very happily divested themselves of proprietary, limited by design sofware, thanks to the technical and legal efforts of the GPL et all. Which is a great counterpoint to the tactics of Microsoft, Apple et all.

Free software users/developers do not typically use pirated software. I am sure Engadget knows this full well, in fact I am surprised to see this comment after seeing Engadget recognize Linux (among many great free/open source software products) on devices as an excellent way to share developent and allow individuals to control and contribute to the capabilities of new tech.

No, I am not a rabid free/open source guy, but let's try not to lose sight of the things that are happening while mouthing the tiresome jaded hipster 'tude you guys seem to like so much.

[Phil @ Nov 13th 2006 10:54AM]

Would be worthwhile to note:

Microsoft makes the bulk of it's profits off of OEM bulk licensing. The amount of licenses sold to hardware distributors like HP, Sony, and Dell pales the total of individual license sales. Add that to the amount of corporate customers that pass through the corporate vendors (Dell, HP, etc) and you'll realize that the incentive to protect the software from piratization has more to do with Microsoft's corporate image to it's business consumers.

With that said, if a piece of software can be engineered, it can also be reverse-engineered. Without a doubt, there will be a way that pirates will be able to keep up with the activation schemes and licensing.

[Travis Pulley @ Nov 13th 2006 10:58AM]

As far as I'm concerned, windows could come free with a $20 bill inside and still be a poor value if you still have to use it. If microsoft could pay me for having to fix all the stupid problems on my and other people's computers due to negligent design defects, I could afford to buy windows plenty of times over. It's the jerks who actually paid for it that have subjected the world at large to such a lame de facto standard.

Piracy in this case is more an act of civil disobedience for having to deal with an illegal monopoly that the state failed to protect its citizens from (they should have been made to open the API). Why can't I buy another OS from a different company that will run my critical apps? I can sure as hell buy a car from different companies that have to actually compete with each other instead of just one whose cars catch on fire during normal operation. (despite the availability of 3rd party flame blockers)

That all being said, Vista would be very nice if it's 100x more stable than the second release candidate. Maybe it might actually be worth paying for, if for no other reason than they finally made a decent alt-tab interface.

[Phil @ Nov 13th 2006 11:11AM]

Here's the thing though. Along with all those issues that arise, the economy is supplied with an increase in employment opportunities for those who actually know how to resolve such issues. If everything in the world worked without fault, we wouldn't have mechanics, plumbers, electricians, IT support staff, doctors, lawyers, etc.

Also, for the record, it's not Microsoft's fault or problem that you can't run OSX (well, at least legally) on non-compliant hardware. You can run all the linux environments you want, however, so if that's your thing; I don't think that the same Dell or HP that you bought is going to keep you from running the particular OS of your choice. It all meerely boils down to market demand, which is what creates the market share of a particular product, which unfortunately for Open Source supporters, is Microsoft and the PC.

[mespinosam @ Nov 13th 2006 11:08AM]

"is going to make your PC a real pain in the ass to operate."

I think since Win95 that achievement has been fully accomplished

[Karl @ Nov 13th 2006 11:11AM]

Hey, learn some economy!

It doesnt work like this, oh so many buy our OS for 150 dollars. We make so much money we must lower the prices! Tada capitalism is about maximizing profits. You put the price that gives you the highest profits. If 6 billion people were prepared to pay 1000 dollars for there products they would sell it for 1000 dollars because that would increase there profits.

One can argue that piracy even can LOWER the prices since when prices goes up to a certain level, instead of buying it people copy it. Some software might go up in price due to piracy. Why i dont have time to explaine in detail. But let put it this way, MS makes a hell of alot of money. There prices has NOTHING to do with breaking even. They would make money if they HALF the price of Vista. They wont because they want to make as much money as possible... And they think there prices are low enough to make people buy it and high enough for a BIG profit...

[Tom @ Nov 13th 2006 11:16AM]

I think people misinterpret the phrase "Free Software."

To quote wikipedia, the "free" in the phrase "free software" should be thought of in the sense of "free speech" not "free beer"

[Baffled @ Nov 13th 2006 1:30PM]

I have "used a pirate copy of XP". I'll tell you from first-hand experience, it is exactly the opposite of difficult to use. I get all the updates, I just didn't install WGA when it popped up in the Automatic downloads because i set it to ask for permission to download and install everything. I see no need to use the other crap MS freeware programs (live messenger, defender, WMP 11, IE, any other crappy program, etc.) that might require WGA, when there is a plethora of other programs that actually grant the user freedoms instead of restrictions, i.e. Open Source programs.

Fortunately for me, I am very much able to use Linux and I do, its just that games are a little hard to come by.

[Gustav @ Nov 13th 2006 11:28AM]

Yes it certainly is, im currently sitting on my new Vista Ultimate. And yes, there is activition cracks available.

[kOa7 @ Nov 13th 2006 11:56AM]

You know that guy who's always making dumb jokes to get people riled up, then says "just kidding?" Who does it again and again until you realize the only reason they're doing it is to get attention? That's engadget for you. If you want to be an apologist for this kind of behavior, go to it, but don't bother trying to insult other people's IQ when they are simply asking for more intelligent conversation.

Further, I guess you don't operate in the real world, but in fact many people out there pretty much lump free/open source together with "freeware", "shareware" and software piracy. I'd guess a good proportion of readers of the "free software movement" comment don't know the backstory to this "joke."

[Jeff @ Nov 14th 2006 10:38AM]

"See the quotation marks, people? "free software movement", it means they are not being literal. In fact the existence of an actual free software movement is why the pun works"

Two things wrong here:

1. It's not a "pun". It helps to know the meanings of the words you're using before you disparage the IQ of others.

2. See how I used quotes there? And I was being completely literal. Quotes have nothing to do with literal vs. figurative. In this context, they're used to illustrate what *someone else* calls something, implying that the writer/speaker does not call that thing by those same words. e.g. a certain group of people calls this the "free software movement", while Engadget apparently just calls them "pirates".

That is not a pun, nor is it a joke.

Get it now, Mr. Genius?

[brant @ Nov 13th 2006 11:31AM]

"A quick search of the more popular BitTorrent sites reveals that numerous copies of the RTM version of Vista are available for download, but being the law-abiding netizens that we are, we can't verify that these are actual working packages or simply 4GB archives of nasty spyware."

Are you serious with that sentence Ivan? If this were high school, I am fairly certain you would get at least thrown in a locker for that lame comment. And yes, they are most likely 4GB is "nasty spyware". ::Falls over::

[HackedByJoe @ Nov 13th 2006 11:32AM]

Guess what? I am writing this while using Vista. I must say its not
bad, and not that hard to hack. =PIm not going to stop using cracks
until all but 1 million dollars of Bill's money goes to helping
Africa.
http://evan.snew.com/ecgi/gates.cgi?2406861843613050045621009846080608#Spending

Let's not forget; Bill made his billions from "bought/stolen" software (DOS,
Windows, WordPerfect, Netscape, etc). Guess what Bill? Payback's a bitch!

[andy @ Nov 13th 2006 11:34AM]

piracy and price:

free software is never pirated.
cheap software is rarely pirated.
moderately costly software is moderately pirated.
ridiculously expensive (cost prohibitive if you have 5 computers in your house like me) is FREQUENTLY pirated.

Why is this? Because it's value relative. If you have to spend a month to hack free software..... what's the point? If you have to spend a month to hack moderately priced software, it's only worth it to very few individuals. If you have to spend a month to hack software that is cost prohibitive, it's worth it to everyone.

Piracy keeps the cost of windows down, and it's the only constraint on the market. The more expensive they make it, the more people are going to try and hack it. Now that XP is 85 bucks or so for an OEM distro, how many people are hacking that? Almost none because it's easier and more convenient to work a few hours, get the money, and go buy the OS legally.

MS's biggest danger is itself. Once it 'hack proofs' all of its software and prices it through the moon for individual licenses, we'll be looking elsewhere or ALL of us will be putting our time and effort into developing better hacks for it. No one can/will buy.

[TIMMAH! @ Nov 13th 2006 11:47AM]

"MS's biggest danger is itself. Once it 'hack proofs' all of its software and prices it through the moon for individual licenses, we'll be looking elsewhere or ALL of us will be putting our time and effort into developing better hacks for it. No one can/will buy."

Microsoft could take a lesson from the RIAA. Litigating and making things more difficult for your legitimate customerbase in order to target pirates makes for more pissed off customers. People find it difficult to shell out money on an OS because technically an OS doesn't "do" anything. It faciliates the running of applications and integrates communications and hardware, but given a piece of hardware and just the OS, you can't really do anything (well you could play solitaire and minesweeper, but there's a limit to how much productivity you can get out of that...)

[TheOne @ Nov 13th 2006 11:47AM]

They should offer Vista Lite, a free version but you just don't get updates for free, you have to buy the ones you want.

That way for the dare devils they can go without security updates (isn't Vista meant to be safe for 7 year olds anyway?) and software updates.

And for the rest of us, we can just buy the updates we need. Allowing us to buy a good OS like Mac OS X ;)

[SHOTT3R @ Nov 13th 2006 12:33PM]

Firstly, I won't say your point isn't valid to an extent. Secondly, I won't get into an internet pissing match with you. My comment was made based on who the target demographic for this blog is. I'd wager that readers of a tech/gadget blog would know that open source isn't piracy and vice versa.

That notwithstanding, my main point was a grammatical one. After speaking specifically about piracy, the blog goes on to say "free software movement" in quotes and lowercase, clearly being tongue in cheek. So pardon me if I think someone taking umbrage as if the writers were being literal either read it poorly, or comprehended it poorly. Have a nice day, ok?

[Deathwish238 @ Nov 13th 2006 11:59AM]

Of course Vista is going to be pirated. If it wasn't so absurdly expensive...there'ld be no need for people to pirate it.

I've also heard that MS is making their own version of Linux and is then going to sell it...

[wickedjimmy @ Nov 13th 2006 12:14PM]

I think your thinking of this.
http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/02/microsoft-supports-linux-via-novell-satan-phones-gates-regarding/

[Bill @ Nov 13th 2006 12:04PM]

I'm proud to say that I got Vista, and must say - it's a nice improvement over my old RC1 install. I also plan to buy it when it comes to my college's computer store for $5 (only if that price gets me Ultimate - anything less and I'm pirating this generation). If Microsoft had not done this stupid split release, I would have gladly bought it without pirating it, but I refuse to stay on XP any longer than absolutely necessary.

There are several different activation cracks out already that use beta keys, I'll probably apply one soon.

Microsoft needs to realize that I have no plans to ever pay $300 for Windows, especially with them cramming it down my throat (because I had XP Pro, I can only upgrade to Vista Business and Ultimate, and Business is a piece of crap for consumers). If it takes me pirating my copy to tell them that, then so be it.

[noname @ Nov 13th 2006 12:07PM]

What does the free software movement have to do with anything here?? What kind of moron wrote this junk? Fire this idiot!

[GamerZ @ Nov 13th 2006 12:22PM]

I know someone that works with microsoft. He siad that when vista is released to the consumers, that all these people with internet downloaded copies of vista, will have to pay fees, and lawsuits. Microsoft isnt letting these people get away.

[HackedByJoe @ Nov 13th 2006 12:24PM]

I'll be waiting for that phone call. I'll give them a hint. I live in Redmond.
_
I I
I~I
I~I
__ _ I~I _ .
\ \ I_I/I-II-II
\~~\' `-'`-'~I
\_ ) ~\_ /~~ )
\_ Y )'
\ ^ /
|~ ~|
=====

[Korey @ Nov 13th 2006 12:23PM]

I just updated to SP2 and now it says my windows is not legit. I'd like to download Vista and see if it will cure this annoying pop-up ballon on my Quick Launch bar. if you know how to go around Micro$oft to get it that would rock.

[Peter @ Nov 13th 2006 12:24PM]

I never get a new version of windows until after at least the first service pack, preferably second. Vista no thanks, a few more bells and whistles and whole lot more bloat slowing the computer.

I don't spend much time using OS features. It is an enabler and XP enables just fine. And I already turn off almost everything so it looks like Win2k.

Piracy raising prices is completely bogus. Prices are high because microsoft has a monopoly, if anything piracy lowers prices. Piracy is the only competition MS faces. They introduced super cheap versions of windows in countries that have extremely high piracy rates. MS profit margin is amongst the highest on the planet and they have more money in the bank than any other corporation on the planet.

All these aggravating features are not to stop pirates, they are to stop Joe average from sharing a copy with his sister. Don't like all the activation nonsense, blame Joe Average, not Joe Pirate.

[HackedByJoe @ Nov 13th 2006 12:26PM]

Oops =P
| _
| I I
| I~I
| I~I
| __ _ I~I _ .
| \ \ I_I/I-II-II
| \~~\' `-'`-'~I
| \_ ) ~\_ /~~ )
| \_ Y )'
| \ ^ /
| |~ ~|
| =====

[Phil @ Nov 13th 2006 12:35PM]

Alas, Vista is buggy. It can't even properly format ASCII art!

Wait. Maybe it's a user-based error. :)

[JP @ Nov 13th 2006 12:50PM]

I think there's another angle to be explored here (or maybe I'm missing something)

So let's say I actually don't mind paying for Vista, but I want it now, rather than in January: Could I install one of these copies, apply the 180 day 'crack' and then wait for an update (which would probably threaten to cripple my copy if I did not buy). . . I'm fine with buying it then, so the question is, could I effectively buy vista early by installing a copy and letting Microsoft figure it out? Would there be a higher price/legal repercussions or functional differences in the product? Would the copy still be of questionable legality once I had payed for it retroactively?

[benyarrow @ Nov 13th 2006 12:53PM]

Its 2.5GB and it does work!

[Shunnabunich @ Nov 13th 2006 1:08PM]

"...we can't verify that these are actual working packages or simply 4GB archives of nasty spyware."

You forget that if it is in fact a working copy of Windows Vista, it IS a (2? 4?)GB archive of nasty spyware. Personally, I don't know anyone, aside from businesses, who has been stupid enough to pay for a separate copy of Windows XP that didn't come pre-installed on their machine. The much-hyped Windows XP Service Pack 3 � code-name Longhorn, code-name Vista � is no more worth paying for than the original version of XP was. See Travis Pulley's Page 1 comment.

[0_0 @ Nov 13th 2006 1:13PM]

I for one welcome our Vista overlords on both my PCs. It's soo hip and clever to diss Microsoft. If anything, the standardization that Windows has brought to the world has been a much overlooked godsend.

And to all the warez apologists here: go suck on a frozen pineapple.

[Jason @ Nov 13th 2006 1:33PM]

Assuming the free software movement and software pirates are the same people makes about as much sense as assuming all Christians are Mormons.

Don't be a bigot.

[ark_v2 @ Nov 13th 2006 2:15PM]

Pirates and free software movement? Don't use that term to refers to pirates, tey are totally different things

[mr johnson @ Nov 13th 2006 2:23PM]

Vista Ultimate i have this one on a legal beta code from MS. And I can say I will be staying with XP and xandros linux for a long time yet. Its too slow and i turned on aero glass by Using regedit. and It was a Joke. My system is only a P4 2.8ghz 1mb level 2 and nvidia 6600gt pci express and 512mb ddr2 @533mhz and i only built this the other week. And why does MS feel it has to run on something so powerful when to be honest its not much better than XP. If XP home was �40.00 i would buy it for all my pc's instead of xandros home edition. which by the way is only $40.00 and can be installed on all my pcs (3) and still activate it for there download features. I have had a look at tiger on my old G3 mac i sold on ebay and that was very good and that does not need loads of horsepower to run it. Its about time MS stop screwing with us and did something usable and when i first started to install vista on a small hd it said it needed 16GB to install it arghhhh

[Montusama @ Nov 13th 2006 2:57PM]

Vista will be pirated just like XP, even I could get the RTM but as I have the preRTM installed i see it pointless to really use it at this point since its "too" new for any real hardware and software support to be 100% working (thats just lame wasn't it?)