Vista unable to stream, convert CableCARD media

Vista's fun run-in with CableCARD started earlier this year when we all found out at CES that they had every intention to finally make Windows (specifically Vista Home Premium and Ultimate) work with your CableCARD setup. No more annoying, awful Motorola high def DVRs, no more ATSC tuners, no more standard def nonsense. As we all found out, however, users who prefer to roll their own Media Center box (like yours truly) will be left out of the option entirely -- support will only be available for CableLabs certified boxen, which home-rolled are, of course, not. Now we come to find out some even worse news about CableCARD and Vista: not only will you not be able to re-stream your high def media to other Windows machines (sorry, Vista capable Media Center Extenders only, i.e. the Xbox 360, and not much else), you won't even be able to transcode and sync to your PMC or other devices, as is currently possible. So, recap: no streaming, Windows Media Connect is null, and no conversion and syncing to your portable; don't be surprised if before the cable industry and CableLabs is through Microsoft further panders by disabling the fast-forward button in the expectation that you'll sit patiently through the recorded commercials.

[Via BoingBoing]

Read - CE Pro
Read - Chris Lanier

[CM @ Nov 25th 2006 10:56PM]

Which will come first, the CableCard board or the hack to open it up?

[Fitz @ Nov 26th 2006 12:57PM]

This is not exactly a solution to the problem, but a work-around that is supported in MCE 2005, not sure about Vista.

It basically allows recording in HD through firewire from cable box. Only catch is you can't pause/skip in real time. You have to record it while streaming, then after its finished, you can go back and watch it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695&page=1&pp=30

Cable operators have been turning encryption on the firewire port, but this is illegal and can be challenged via....

(4) Cable operators shall:
(i) Effective April 1, 2004, upon request of a customer, replace any leased
high definition set-top box, which does not include a functional IEEE 1394
interface, with one that includes a functional IEEE 1394 interface or
upgrade the customer's set-top box by download or other means to ensure that
the IEEE 1394 interface is functional.

PDF document found here-
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-03-225A1.pdf

[WindowsNow @ Nov 25th 2006 11:14PM]

I blogged about this a week or so ago. Microsoft had to make concessions to the Cable industry to make digital cable & HDTV to happen, so it's the consumers who have to force action. Write to your cable companies and tell them that they need to get their acts together for the benefit of their true customers.

http://www.windows-now.com/blogs/robert/archive/2006/11/19/consumers-must-force-change-in-the-cable-industry.aspx

[Duncan Poole @ Nov 25th 2006 11:54PM]

I think the cable companies are shooting themselves in the foot.

Most PVR usage is for time shifting basic network programming.
I'm fairly certain cable companies are not allowed to scramble the local
channels they carry, if they are transmitted over-the-air in the clear in my
area.

I will just buy a QAM tuner without cablecard support, and plug it into my
cable feed, picking up those key dozen or so channels. Who loses?
Certainly not early adopters like myself that work out they can
live without those extra channels. I bet I'm not the only person
that won't subscribe to watch a channel, if I can't watch it time shifted
and recorded to my PVR.

Duncan.

[kyler @ Nov 26th 2006 12:20AM]

yay for utorrent.

do these companies really think that revoking consumer rights is going to help their business?

[Steve Wallen @ Nov 26th 2006 12:51AM]

Wow, same crap they're putting Tivo through.

[Shmoe @ Nov 26th 2006 3:31AM]

MS needs to get some balls and take on the damn cable industry and force this issue. MS has the cash, and if they want to see media center penetrate and server their own customers, MS will have to do something about this. Bastards.

[DutchSwiffer @ Nov 26th 2006 5:40AM]

If you want to "share" your streams with other people or devices you can try www.orb.com. Works well for me.

Greetz. DutchSwiffer

[GhostDoggy @ Nov 26th 2006 8:17AM]

Shmoe, I agree. microsoft should utilize the FCC to get them to stop putting obstacles in front of consumers. First the cable industry get's upset with the rising costs of their DVRs and tries to virtualize the DVR in a more VOD setup, but get's blackballed by the MPA and broadcasters.

Now, Microsoft comes up with a plan to assist the cable industry by removing the DVR costs upon them and migrate the costs to consumers. So, what do they do? Screw that up. I'm guess the DVR costs were really never a problem, and their VOD attempts were more to convert their garden industry and converted to enforce a fee-per-view condition, or re-advertise within every shoing of a saved show.

And I thought the telephone iundustry was evil. This is the first time I'd support Microsoft asking the FCC for legal and regulatory assistance.

[GadgetGab @ Nov 26th 2006 8:36AM]

"Cable Television Laboratories, Inc. (CableLabs�) is a non-profit research and development consortium that is dedicated to pursuing new cable telecommunications technologies and to helping its cable operator members integrate those technical advancements into their business objectives."
Translation: CableLabs is dedicated to removing customer choice in how and where they watch programming supplied by their poor, downtrodden cable operator members and making sure that the cable operators can make more money with less effort thanks to digital technology. Thanks to our lobbying efforts and the passing of the DMCA we're on track to remove all fair use rights the theiving customers thought they had and we're laughing all the way to the bank.

[Adam Lenio @ Nov 26th 2006 9:19AM]

We're just hoping that Vista supports 1394b - if that is the case then we have the solution here: http://www.tecstream.com

[Matt @ Nov 26th 2006 10:08AM]

This is terrible news. I love the MCE interface and hate paying monthly subscriptions, so I was really looking forward to CableCard support in Vista.

I already switched 2 of my 4 machines to Ubuntu...I think the other 2 will be following soon.

[Ray-- @ Nov 26th 2006 10:43AM]

high def (to me) isnt worth the hassle (although OTA is fine)... i'd rather have standard def and more freedom than all this restricted crap... i spend too much time on the train to not be able to watch some shows on it... i mean high def is nice and all but i find most shows entertaining for the content not the clarity of the picture/sound...

[Evan Rodgers @ Nov 26th 2006 11:08AM]

So lets recap:

Microsoft gets raped by cable companies, and the consumer gets NOTHING.

This really sucks the worst for consumers, who don't even have a choice in all these matters. Hmm, I wonder why more and more HD OTA tuners are becoming available, broacatching is becoming prevalent, and people love TVUplayer? ITS BECAUSE NO ONE LIKES YOU CABLE COMPANY! We give you money and you give us a smack in the face.

[halfeatenfish @ Nov 26th 2006 11:45AM]

It's too bad that MS can't have the same balls (ie, Universal, Cable Industry) that Apple did when it negotiated prices for iTMS. Shame. Shame. Shame. Forget Ubuntu...try OSX and wait for iTV. I'll bet Jobs won't get jobbed like Gates is.

[Matt @ Nov 26th 2006 5:55PM]

OSX and iTV don't offer anything more than what is already available with XBMC...it actually does less considering it won't support as many codecs.

If you don't see CableCard support from MS then you won't see it at all.

[Shmoe @ Nov 26th 2006 2:51PM]

MS would have even more cash on hand to fight things like this if it weren't for the damn EU and their
f--ing demands. If I were MS, I say to hell with all the EU, pull all support -- no downloads, updates anything for Windows or Office -- until they lifted their sh-t ass demands or just sit back and watch all of Europes economy tank.

[halfeatenfish @ Nov 26th 2006 4:25PM]

I guess we're assuming that MS makes ZERO profit on Europe!?!?! You don't REALLY think their EU legal bills exceed their EU profits, do you??

[Riskable @ Nov 26th 2006 8:22PM]

Just like to point out that I scooped this story by ONE WHOLE YEAR in a previous Engadget comment:

http://www.engadget.com/2005/11/16/microsoft-announces-cablecard-for-late-2006/#c562079%3Cbr%3E

...of course, no one believed me back then. There was even some irate commenters in this post:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/30/cablecard-on-vista-to-require-cablelabs-certification/

...where I re-stated the truth of the matter.

I'll just bask in the truth for a moment.

-Riskable
http://riskable.com

[Notme @ Nov 26th 2006 10:30PM]

Everybody, stop blaming the messenger. I work as the CableLabs rep for a major equipment vendor, and you guys have this all wrong.

CableLabs is on your side. Even Comcast, Cox, and everybody else is on your side. We are completely powerless to allow Microsoft to open the streams to transport to other devices or to DVD, ipod, etc. Why? To find out why, you need to go all the way back to the MPAA. The MPAA mandates this to HBO who mandates it to the Cable Company (the MSO as we call them) who mandates it to CableLabs who then mandates it to the equipment vendor. In this case, this mandate extends all the way to Microsoft.

Seriously, I read an article like this every month, blaming CableLabs and the equipment vendors for the problem. It's not our fault. It's the MPAA (and a few other entities) that we collectively label "Hollywood". Stop blaming the police officer (CableLabs) for the law (the DRM enforcement). Blame the legislature.

[Trent @ Nov 27th 2006 1:40PM]

Notme, While I respect what you are saying. Why isn't cablelabs shouting to the heavens (officially) to assist us poor citizens to get "fair use" resolved so we can all get back to handing you money.

Sorry to be callous, but put your money where your mouth is. Most of us know its the MPAA which is the problem, but your silence in the trade rags is not helping.

[Notme @ Nov 27th 2006 4:54PM]

Trent, CableLabs is a hardware development consortium. Its charter is to develop hardware according to mandates put forth by the cable companies.

So why doesn't the cable company go to bat for you?

Here's what happens:

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6342799.html?display=Top+Stories

How about satellite? Want to see what happens when they try to provide what they see as fair to the viewers?

http://www.tvpredictions.com/echo102406.htm

It's the courts and the legislature that are the problem. I ask you, last time you voted, did you vote for any judges? Were they on the ballot? Did you research which ones were viewer-friendly and vote accordingly? How about your congressperson? Have you contacted them about this issue?

Again, don't blame us for specifying hardware the way we're required to. It's the DMCA, the MPAA, and everybody up the chain.

[Trent @ Nov 27th 2006 9:43PM]

To answer your questions. Yes, I voted for the right judges who would benefit "fair use". Yes I have signed many EFF petitions and am registered at their site. Yes I tried to alert my congressman(woman) but Mrs. Baily-Hutchins is aligned with evil. But in fact, she has received three letters on this topic from me.

You dodged my question though. I wasn't laying blame at your feet if you re-read my previous post. I did ask you what cablelabs was doing for us, the consumer? And you didn't address that.

[Trent @ Nov 27th 2006 9:47PM]

Senator Kay Bailey-Hutchinson, my error.

[Notme @ Dec 1st 2006 1:13PM]

If your question is, what does CableLabs do at the behest of a consumer? The answer to that question is nothing, CableLabs is not run by the public. It is run by the Cable System Operators.

If you are asking what does CableLabs do to benefit the consumer? The answer is, lots. The biggest tangible benefit that CableLabs provides is reduced hardware cost. Things like the HD Tivo are a result of CableLabs work on the CableCard. Another benefit is the fact that Cable Modems are dirt cheap, and available at retail, and useful on any cable system in North America. Try that with your DSL modem!

Is VoIP available from your Cable Company? How about QoS for your video games? These are services that would not be cost effective without the standards, and the standards are developed here.

More intangible benefits are the near ubiquitous availability of Cable Modem service. Just about every home that can get cable can get Cable Modem service. The older, non-DOCSIS Cable Modem service was too expensive and proprietery to roll out everywhere, many semi-rural areas would not have broadband if it weren't for CableLabs' driving down the hardware cost (on both ends of the connection).

I hope this helps.

[danimal @ Jan 12th 2007 12:42PM]

"It's too bad that MS can't have the same balls (ie, Universal, Cable Industry) that Apple did when it negotiated prices for iTMS. Shame. Shame. Shame. Forget Ubuntu...try OSX and wait for iTV. I'll bet Jobs won't get jobbed like Gates is."

You mean content with restrictive DRM that costs as much as (or more than) purchasing the same content on less-restrictive physical media? Yeah, some balls. Golly, gee, Mr. Jobs I stand in awe of your amazing power - how ever did you manage to swing that deal that had everything the major music labels wanted. Oh, but you didn't back down when they wanted you to do tiered pricing - you are a freaking god!

Seriously, I'm considering starting a religion for people who thing Steve Jobs is the messiah and Bill Gates is the devil.

[babakrezai @ May 2nd 2007 9:13PM]

The Cablecard Consortium is a a monopoly, I am starting a class action lawsuit against this company and its control over how we watch TV, this is rediculios we will not and should not have to pay these ridiculous prices for the ability to watch digital cable on our media center pc or connected TV's if you are intrested joining the lawsuit or simply electronically signing a petition to the FCC. The FCC requires cable boxes to have fire wire and all people who request cable cards for their tvs to be given one, therefore this should extend to media center as well.

http://groups.google.com/group/cablecard_fairuse?lnk=gcimh

[Tarry @ Aug 12th 2008 3:04AM]

This is great news!

http://www.chasetheglow.com