Zune vs. iPod specification smackdown

The new Zunes are official so let's get to it: a spec-by-spec scrap between Redmond's new Zunes and Cupertino's formidable iPod foe. Unfortunately, Microsoft failed to mention the all important battery performance of their new gear in addition to a few other minor details. Microsoft fans will tell you that's due to an iPhone-like surprise close to the November launch while haters will jump to the conclusion that this is a definite sign of trouble. Still even without that morsel, there's plenty of data to masticate for comparison.

The Zune 80GB certainly holds its own when pitted against the 80GB iPod classic on a specification table. That's not the case, however, with the iPod touch as long as you're willing to sacrifice the bytes for the touch's bigger display and heftier price tag. It's a tougher call on the flash-based Zune vs. the iPod nano -- just how important is WiFi to you on a 1.8-inch display? None of this, of course, accounts for the oh so important user experience or the ecosystems supporting their respective players. As such, we'll reserve final judgment until we have the new Zunes in-hand. Until then you'd best dig in fanboys, that November release is a long way off. The tables that follow will provide the fuel to fight the flame wars in the weeks to come.

Update: Battery data updated with information found on Amazon.com.

The Zune 80 with its big 3.2-inch display fits right in between Apple's iPod classic and iPod touch models. As such, we'll give you all three in a side-by-side comparison. Since Microsoft is a bit light on the specs, we've plugged in the information we reasonably expect to carry over from the 1st generation Zune -- otherwise, it's To Be Determined:

Feature	Zune 80GB	iPod classic 80GB	iPod touch 8GB
Price	$249.99	$249.00	$299.00
Size (inches)	4.3 x 2.4 x 0.51	4.1 x 2.4 x 0.41	4.3 x 2.4 x 0.31
Weight (ounces)	4.5	4.9	4.2
Display (inches)	3.2	2.5	3.5
Display Type	LCD	LCD (LED backlight)	Touch-sensitive LCD
Resolution	320 x 240 (expected)	320 x 240	480 x 320
Navigation	Zune Pad	Click Wheel	Multi-touch
WiFi	Yes (802.11b/g expected)	No	802.11b/g
Wireless Sync	Yes	No	No
Wireless Share	Yes	No	No
Wireless Store	No	No	Yes
Web Browser	No	No	Yes
Battery	20 hours music (WiFi off) / 5 hours video	30 hours music / 5 hours video	22 hours music / 5 hours video
Battery Charge Time	2.25 hours / 1.25 hour to 90% via USB	4 hours / 2 hours to 80%	3 hours / 1.5 hours to 80%
Audio Support	WMA, protected WMA, WMA Lossless, MP3, MP3 VBR, AAC (expected)	AAC, protected AAC, MP3, MP3 VBR, Audible, Apple lossless, WAV, and AIFF	AAC, protected AAC, MP3, MP3 VBR, Audible, Apple lossless, WAV, and AIFF
Video Support	WMV, H.264, MPEG-4	H.264, MPEG-4	H.264, MPEG-4
FM Tuner	Yes	No	No
Headphones	"Premium" earbuds	Apple earbuds	Apple earbuds
PC / Mac compatible	Yes / No	Yes / Yes	Yes / Yes
Client Software	Zune Software	iTunes	iTunes
Colors	Black	Silver, Black	Black

Now on to the flash-based Zunes which like Apple's best selling iPod nano, will likely be Microsoft's top sellers:

Feature	Zune 4 / 8GB	iPod nano 4 / 8GB
Price	$149.99 / $199.99	$149.00 / $199.00
Size (inches)	1.6 x 3.6 x 0.33	2.8 x 2.1 x 0.26
Weight (ounces)	1.7	1.7
Display (inches)	1.8	2.0
Display Type	LCD	LCD (LED backlight)
Resolution	320 x 240	320 x 240
Navigation	Zune Pad	Click Wheel
WiFi	Yes (802.11b/g expected)	No
Wireless Sync	Yes	No
Wireless Share	Yes	No
Wireless Store	No	No
Web Browser	No	No
Battery	20 hours music (WiFi off) / 4 hours video	24 hours music / 5 hours video
Battery Charge Time	2.5 hours / 1.5 hours to 90% via USB	3 hours / 1.5 hours to 80%
Audio Support	WMA, protected WMA, WMA Lossless, MP3, MP3 VBR, AAC (expected)	AAC, protected AAC, MP3, MP3 VBR, Audible, Apple lossless, WAV, and AIFF
Video Support	WMV, H.264, MPEG-4	H.264, MPEG-4
FM Tuner	Yes	No
Headphones	Microsoft earbuds	Apple earbuds
PC / Mac compatible	Yes / No	Yes / Yes
Client Software	Zune Software	iTunes
Colors	Pink, Green, Black, Red	Silver, Black, Blue, Green, (PRODUCT) RED

Oh, here's what Zune "premium" headphones look like. Sorry, no useful data but that cable has a certain rugged, mountaineering look to it dontchathink?

[Andrew @ Oct 3rd 2007 7:29AM]

In the comparison table, both the iPods & Zunes are marked as supporting MPEG-4. Does that mean that they both play divx/xvid avis, or is that a different proprietary version of mpeg-4?

Cheers.

[Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Oct 3rd 2007 7:37AM]

DviX/XviD video codecs are MPEG-4 based. If configured accordingly, they can produce MPEG-4 compatible streams. But normally they don't. Also MPEG-4 specifies also container file .mp4, but DviX traditionally uses heavily hacked .avi files. (DivX by default uses MP3 codec for audio, MPEG-4 - AAC.)

Check www.divx.com - it has list of many (not all) devices supporting DivX.

Again, DivX/XviD != MPEG-4.

[Yo @ Oct 3rd 2007 11:23AM]

Which sucks.

They're not that damned different - Why haven't they paid the damned license fees already? Give me SOME codec choice. Pain in the ass monopolists....

[mhc @ Oct 3rd 2007 9:25AM]

DivX and XVid are MPEG-4 part 2 implementations, but they belong to the 'Advanced Simple Profile', which the iPod is not capable of displaying: it is 'Simple Profile' only. Don't know about the Zune but it is probably the same.

Btw, H.264 is also a MPEG-4 format (MPEG-4 Part 10)

[Willen @ Oct 3rd 2007 9:39AM]

If properly stored in an MP4 container, the Zune (and any proper MPEG-4 compliant device) will play XviD/DivX codec video -- assuming that the video resolution and bit rate is compatible.

XviD and DivX (more so DivX) are proprietary implementations of the MPEG-4 SP/ASP codec. Admittedly, the flexibility and ubiquity of the AVI container is one the primary reasons why the people behind DivX 'hacked' MPEG-4 video into it.

[leland @ Oct 3rd 2007 9:50AM]

I don't get how Zune, looking to take market share from the iPod, wouldn't include the two biggest formats on the net, Xvid and divx. Same thing with the 360. I'm holding out for the new zen vision w, whenever that comes out.

[Dragod @ Oct 3rd 2007 11:06AM]

There is also a hack on Zuneboards.com that allows .avi and other new files to be supported for the current Zune, not sure about the new firmware, though.

[Bah @ Oct 3rd 2007 3:12PM]

The reason XviD and DivX are so rarely supported by these major manufacturers in their multimedia devices (PSP, X-Box 360 and PS3 included) has less to do with paying codec fees and more to do with not wanting to piss off media allies. With XviD/DivX being the preferred method for encoding ripped television shows and DVDs these days, supporting them in their products would be seen by some in the industry as support for piracy. That the PSP could play movies at all earned Sony, who themselves have a major motion picture arm, considerable scorn from their peers in the motion picture industry.

[JohnTitor @ Oct 3rd 2007 3:20PM]

how about not having to go through the process of hacking a player, there are so many players that support the formats, creative,archos, iriver etc, I hate how people looking to not get an iPod just jump the gun and get a Zune without doing research

[DreadConches @ Oct 3rd 2007 3:21PM]

I do not like Itunes. I have used Itunes and I am not an "M$" fanboy. I dislike the interface and prefer WMP (any competent person can use WMP). I don't like Apple interfaces in general, and the products are too hyped.
And I really don't understand why every single apple fanboy must use "M$". I don't see ms fanboys doing the same thing even though apple is, this may surprise some of you, just as greedy. I think it might have something to do with the fact that both apple and ms are businesses (I may be wrong, but that is my understanding) and businesses like to make money for the stockholders and employees (this is capitalism, right?)
Oh well, here is a very misleading name. Apple. Apples are pretty non-toxic (except for small amounts of arsenic in the seeds) and I don't think that they harm the environment (don't trees consume carbon dioxide and produce oxygen?). Get this, Apple (the company) isn't very environmentally friendly (quite the opposite actually).
Sorry for the rant, ignorant hypocrites are quite annoying.

[Alex M @ Oct 3rd 2007 5:24PM]

theres gunna be a new vision:w? mines way too big :P
unless you're thinking of the Creative ZEN

[Ryan @ Oct 3rd 2007 5:29PM]

@Dragod, sort of. I use it today, but all it really does is make the Zune software see those file types as video in the software. The Zune software then uses DirectShow codecs to convert those files to a WMV that the Zune can handle. It works, but what the update will provide is native playback of those mp4 formats as you'd typically find in video blogging. You will still be able to watch Divx/XviD movies if you convert them, just as today. Given that I can reduce an entire DVD to ~300 MB for a 320x240 WMV, that conversion process is worth it... should also result in longer playback too since the HDD consumes most of the power on devices like this, and not the decompression routines.

[Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Oct 3rd 2007 7:32AM]

Looked like parity to me. Until the Wind0ze only "Zune" software hit the list.

M$ can do good software. But seems out of principle never do when plain (non-pro) customers care. (Compare M$Office and M$DevStudio to rest of M$ shagware.)

I personally would avoid Zune only and solely due to extra software it requires to operate.

P.S. Oh, and well, I haven't tested Zune, but iPod sound quality (with proper earphones) is really outstanding. Few other players I had before handled classics, jazz and metal as perfectly as does iPod. My cheap Senheiser CX300 really put to shame Sansa and Creative players (flash based!!!) with their electrical noises during playback. Intolerable.

[yavin @ Oct 3rd 2007 7:56AM]

because iTunes is not an additional software ??????? take off your mask Steve, you're busted

[Bob @ Oct 3rd 2007 8:08AM]

Looked like a win on features for the flash-based Zunes when compared to the nano for me.

[Blue @ Oct 3rd 2007 8:13AM]

Am I the only one who immediately stops reading what someone writes when they refer to Microsoft as M$?

Seriously, do you think that you are witty by doing it? Oh how clever! Honey come look at what this chap wrote on the internet! See how he changed the S in Microsoft to a money symbol to symbolize that they are greedy? Isn't he so clever?

[Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Oct 3rd 2007 8:16AM]

> because iTunes is not an additional software???????

Because I use iTunes for 4(?) years now. And it is "good enough". And always was.

On other side M$ never managed to produce anything decent forced on everybody the ugly and unusable WMP.

As much as WMP interferes with whole OS, I expect not less from Zune software. After all all from M$ has to be grandiose, screwing *everything* installed before.

Just recall first Zune software fiasco. That was laughable. Did they learned their lessons? Dunno. Will see. At moment, additional software requirement goes against them since they remake it all the time - not much for fixing old problems as to much as to introduce new ones.

Presence of iTunes is neutral to me: i had 100% positive experience with it.

Presence of Zune is negative to me: though I never tried it, it was reported all the net as defunct.

[Rynth @ Oct 3rd 2007 8:36AM]

"Will they learned their lessons?"

Good lord! Will your learned your grammar already!

On a different note, just because you've had Itunes installed for four years now, doesn't mean the entire population has.

[Rick Dillinger @ Oct 3rd 2007 9:36AM]

One sure way of finding out a Microsoft fanboy, watch them get all whiny when you type M$, Microsuck, etc.

M$ M$ M$ M$

If imitation is the sincerist form of flattery Apple should be dark maroon by now.

And all you M$ fanboys, how does it feel to be circlejerking around a product that's just a cheap imitation of an original? Basically there's leaders and followers, those who create, and those who only know to copy, M$ fanboys are the latter, followers. Without Apple, you'd be using floppies, working in DOS, and using clunky Creative MP3 players hooked up to your FUGLY beige computers probably using an ultrawide SCSI. Oh, you'd still be single, living in your parents basement, and still incredibly big losers who'd never have kissed a girl, but your life has only been made better by M$'s copying Apple at every turn because there isn't an original idea in any of Microsuck, or your, vacuous heads.

Flame on tards, you're pathetic and weak, the funny part is, you'll always be a step behind while you think you're not. What a sad, sad lot your are.

[Nubaeus @ Oct 3rd 2007 9:46AM]

@Rick

Make me a pretty picture on your individualistic MacBooc please and then send me a picture of yourself from Photobooth!

[Purple @ Oct 3rd 2007 10:28AM]

@Blue
$hut up, you M$ fanboy a$$

[david.m.carroll @ Oct 3rd 2007 10:32AM]

If you haven't used both devices, keep your snarky opinions to yourself.

I've used both and owned both and the Zune was better than the iPod classic but even the new implementation isn't as good as the iTouch.

I will give props to the Zune team for allowing v1 owners to get the new firmware.

THANK YOU!

[Kinowolf @ Oct 3rd 2007 10:31AM]

Yep, always a step behind. If the Zune went away, iPods would continue to innovate. If the iPod went away, you'd be sitting on the same Zune design for the better part of a decade.

Like Amazon MP3, the new Zune marketplace will have some growth as long as Apple is contractually forced to have DRM. Once they're able to drop it, that'll be the end of that. In M$ speak: DRM-free music is Zune's Halo, but unlike Halo it's easily replicated.

[william @ Oct 3rd 2007 11:10AM]

LMAO, most MS fans are idiots. They really have no legitimate argument for anything MS. yeah, I said it...bring it on. Most people that mouth off about apple is because they really do not have a clue about the OS or the company. I on the other hand have worked for both and anyone educated on the topic sees what MS does time and time again....get an original thought or just keep quite so you do not look like an idiot time and time again.

[Za @ Oct 3rd 2007 11:18AM]

I have an iPod nano 1st gen and the sound quality is notably lower than my old Creative players. Historically speaking, iPods [with the exception of the 1st gen shuffle] have had terrible sound quality. Psychosomatic,perhaps?

[John @ Oct 3rd 2007 11:30AM]

Actually, using rhetoric akin to 'Microsuck', 'M$', and so on, is a sign that an argument has no factual basis but instead is used only to garner an emotional response.

As to allegations that Microsoft cannot innovate or is only copying Apple, I submit to you that there is no conceivable design for an MP3 player that is not rectangular and striving for a smaller and smaller size. And I didn't notice wifi appearing on any iPods until after the Zune came out, but for the love of god, it's competing products, you don't have a stake in which one is better, so either give some verifiable facts relevant to the issue at hand or get the hell out.

[Kinowolf @ Oct 3rd 2007 11:42AM]

@ John

The latest iPod touch is a giant screen with only a single physical button; the iPod shuffle clips to your clothing. Zune's interface still isn't as intuitive and user friendly as the decade-old clickwheel. So no, there is no natural limitation to MP3 player design besides the designer's imagination (or lack thereof).

Happy?

[Spyder @ Oct 3rd 2007 1:25PM]

Yeah, I've been using the Zune Software with my Zune now for about 8 Months. It's pretty solid if you are used to WMP. And, I don't know about you, but as long as you have your PC Configured correctly, just about any program will run properly, on Vista OR XP. I choose to call it "User Error" (Or the old ID10T Error...)
Then, for whatever go knows why reason, I tried installing the new version of iTunes on my PC. WHOA! What a mistake that was! That app is so slow and non responsive, I did a restore on my PC to get it off!
Yeah, some of us get upset when people refer to Microsoft as "M$", but I've just come to know it as a company that has sold so many OS's that of COURSE they are going to be rolling in dough. If there was only an "S" in Apple, it would be full of Dollar signs as well... Probably more so. At least M$ Doesn't have to be like your creepy uncle that's trying really hard to be liked.
Anyways, Go Zune! Hurry up with that Firmware release for my old Zune30!

[Don @ Oct 3rd 2007 4:41PM]

"Seriously, do you think that you are witty by doing it? Oh how clever! Honey come look at what this chap wrote on the internet! See how he changed the S in Microsoft to a money symbol to symbolize that they are greedy? Isn't he so clever?"

Best when read in the style of Stewie Griffin.

Also, you forgot the "WinDoze" :).

[Kasuro @ Oct 3rd 2007 8:23PM]

@Rick:

And Apple stole the concept of an MP3 player from Diamond. Whoopty-freakin-do. Apple isn't creative, it isn't special, and it isn't a damned bit different. Your life is meaningless. Just face it, dude, you're a loser who has no life and who uses a corporate brand as a reason for existence.

Like Maddox said... One thing PC users can do, that Mac users can't: SHUT THE (@&*# UP.

[DeoWulf @ Oct 6th 2007 6:33PM]

"Zune's interface still isn't as intuitive and user friendly as the decade-old clickwheel."

BS! The clickwheel uses the same motions to go left and right as it does to go up and down! Circles shouldn't be used to navigate a rectangular interface. Plus, have you ever noticed that when you scroll clockwise to go down, you're also moving your finger up? Is that really intuitive? Maybe if the iPod firmware had a wheel-based GUI, but it has a rectangular-based one, which is best navigated by a D-pad. Shut up about the intuitiveness of the wheel, because it's just a gimmick Apple's been able to pull off for a decade due to its blind fans.

[V3LOCIP3D3 @ Oct 7th 2007 8:36PM]

Why are we comparing this to the iPod? Or the iPod Touch? The iPod is just a fad. It isn't even a fanboy thing. The ipod used to be a cool gadget, so I bought one and everyone else did. Mac has moved on since then because even Steve Jobbs knows that fads never last. That's why he created the iPhone. Just stop being so bitchy and look at it with an open mind. Microsoft has taken the harddrive-based MP3 player one more step, and they did a great job at it. My props to them, and I'm definately going to buy one.

And stop telling me that Apple is "innovative." Apple is very artistic, I'll give them that. But if you've been into the electronics industry for more than a week, you have to admit they're just another microsoft. Another company with a bigger budget than all the rest, so they can get more advertising and engineers than other worthy competitors.

The iPod touch should be compared to an MS-based handheld IMO. It's been done before and it doesn't look too good (specifications-wise of course . . I mean the thing looks amazing.)

[V3LOCIP3D3 @ Oct 7th 2007 8:55PM]

I don't think any regular tech enthusiast will ever understand devoted apple consumers. To a mac enthusiast, apple is a lifestyle. It's a religion. It's what they live and die for. So you like apple products? Keep it to yourself. We know you'll never change your minds, or listen to anyone else's opinion. Mac could market an abacus and you would call it innovative and beautiful.

Most of us base our opinions quality and reason, and could care less about MS vs. Mac. To be honest, until I have stock invested in one of them, I could care less if either company burned in hell.

I'm not saying that everyone that owns a mac is like this, but after reading most of the posts on this site, it scares me to think that these people make regular day-to-day decisions on their own. You're given an exact comparison, Zune vs. iPod 80g, as simple as black and white, and you still stick with the iPod? With my experience with both devices, using windows XP (in case you're wondering), the Zune outperforms in every category, including memory usage. Zune uses 1 program in memory all the time (zunelauncher.exe) and is about 3mb, and has never performed illegal operations or screwed my computer up. iPodlauncher.exe and itunesservice constantly have memory usage spikes and problems. I'm sticking with my zune. Why? because it's better. simple.

[icepop4who @ Oct 21st 2007 12:13AM]

apple fans are zealots to emperor jobs who immitate jobs's witty accusation of microsoft. apple fans are the insecure teenagers who need a constant battle against the other 90% of the computer world to be assured that they are making their point. please, no more.

i have the zune and my girlfriend has an ipod. i like the zune but i'm not against the ipod. what really pisses me off is that the zune requires zune software that is a replica of WMP, which gates shoved in every windows. I really don't understand why a new software is needed when WMP is perfectly sufficient to handle everything zune software can.

[Nick @ Nov 29th 2007 5:39PM]

When you look at another breakdown the Zune and the iPod really aren't that similar. It's a tough call which one offers more, however. They could both stand to improve:

http://comparati.com/883-Zune-vs-iPod

[Rickumus @ Oct 3rd 2007 7:33AM]

I'll take one 80GB Zune please! :-)

[tekdroid @ Oct 3rd 2007 7:37AM]

it would be nice to throw in some non-RIAA sanctioned players in the mix, with an 'ecosystem' consisting of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_mass_storage_device_class

[BlissX @ Oct 3rd 2007 6:14PM]

Seriously, USB Flash Drives are NOT players. They STORE things :O

Any person who announces to the world they love their Flash Drives as a player are being a smartass. And probably has tons of illegal MP3's, and feel like they're better than any other person who legitmately purchases their music.

Good for you. On the other hand, I prefer buying physical media (oh noes, back to t3h stoneage for you!), rip it to WMA Pro, and lock out every single person on the interweb simply becuse WMA Pro is unpopular. Why the hell would I want to give you something that I paid for, unless you're a close friend. Which you're not.

So keep sharing your music via USB and be a rebel.

[tekdroid @ Oct 3rd 2007 10:04PM]

BlissX,
I am *not* talking about simple flash drives as "players". You do realise that there are a whole bunch of devices selling out there that work on any modern operating system and that don't require a burdensome one-way application on every machine to get playable music on them, don't you?

You can also get music off them with the greatest of ease.

Your comment about physical media is funny, because i would have to be the biggest proponent of CD. But again, I'm not sure what point you were trying to make there but posturing about my "stone age"; the same can be done with any portable audio device that doesn't require proprietary apps to get stuff on (and OFF) itself.

I honestly don't know what you're complaining about, aside from the fact that perhaps u don't know there are devices out there that can do perfectly well without an app to "manage" their own restrictions.





I am talking about players that utilise drag n drop, copy n paste, just like a data drive, but that play music. These devices exist. They don't require a proprietary application to put audio on them. They can also be used to copy audio and data back to the computer, too.

Existing devices can be used for piracy too. I'm really not sure what your point is and your accusations I'll just ignore.

What we have here are RIAA-restricted devices that can only transfer audio through special apps, ONE-WAY.

Why?
For the RIAA's benefit. Look into the Cowon and Meizu products to see what I'm on about. They don't require any of this nonsense and their codec support is excellent. And they are not just "flash drives".

[bradG @ Oct 3rd 2007 7:38AM]

Turd brown replaced by puke green.

Yeah, that's real progress for MS.

[kilikili @ Oct 3rd 2007 8:14AM]

'tard comment

[Blue @ Oct 3rd 2007 8:19AM]

Yes, because we all know that offering customers CHOICES is somehow a bad idea....

[Kinowolf @ Oct 3rd 2007 10:31AM]

It's not about giving choices, it's about giving good choices. Zune designers need to learn how to use a Pantone color palette, because excluding black these colors are busted.

[Za @ Oct 3rd 2007 11:41PM]

You know, as someone with a Powerbook G4, Macbook, and iPod nano, I'd not respect MS work. However, if you open your eyes and look at the new Zunes, they actually look a lot hell of a lot better than both the iPod nano 3g and iPod classic. The touch notwithstanding, I think the Zunes look notably better. Furthermore, the classic has received absolutely terrible reviews for sound quality. I own multiple Apple products but would say from a sheer asthetic standpoint that the current MS players [aside from the touch] just look better. End of story.

[mills.edward @ Oct 3rd 2007 12:02PM]

How can you say that? Have you seen the new nano colours? Apart from the red and black, they're pretty vile.

[BigSarge @ Oct 3rd 2007 2:20PM]

The worst part is, according to zunescene.com, is that the color isn't "puke green" it's "old army jeep green." That is also called O.D. or olive drab. I think "drab" sums it up for me.

[bob e @ Oct 3rd 2007 7:38AM]

Microsoft Zune: Very nice complimentary colors and design.

Apple: shoddy incoherent looking product mix

Microsoft +1 IMO... now market the hell out of it... seriously I'd like one of each.

[yoshi @ Oct 3rd 2007 8:03AM]

It's Microsoft Bob! Where you been Bob? Microsoft call you out of retirement to shill for their new baby, eh?

[St. Stephen @ Oct 3rd 2007 8:59AM]

lol MIcrosoft Bob!! too funny..

I think both these products, ipod and zune suck, what do you think of that? Maybe I have strange ideas in what I want in a PMP.. I don't know. But I want an AM tuner, the ability to record from said tuner, larger flash drives, faster cpu's, and a rugged design that's built to last and protect my files. 1 drop = ipod death, at least it was for me. Overall though I have chosen Ipod historically, so maybe I will give a zune a try. As long as the thing doesn't try and tell me I can't play my own tunes after 3 days, I will personally wage jihad on microsoft if they pulled some shit like that.

[Orpheus @ Oct 3rd 2007 9:19AM]

But I want people who use "said" so unnecessarily and pretentiously to die.