Zune vs. iPod specification smackdown
By Thomas Ricker 
posted Oct 3rd 2007 7:22AM
posted Oct 3rd 2007 7:22AM
The new Zunes are official so let's get to it: a spec-by-spec scrap between Redmond's new Zunes and Cupertino's formidable iPod foe. Unfortunately, Microsoft failed to mention the all important battery performance of their new gear in addition to a few other minor details. Microsoft fans will tell you that's due to an iPhone-like surprise close to the November launch while haters will jump to the conclusion that this is a definite sign of trouble. Still even without that morsel, there's plenty of data to masticate for comparison.
The Zune 80GB certainly holds its own when pitted against the 80GB iPod classic on a specification table. That's not the case, however, with the iPod touch as long as you're willing to sacrifice the bytes for the touch's bigger display and heftier price tag. It's a tougher call on the flash-based Zune vs. the iPod nano -- just how important is WiFi to you on a 1.8-inch display? None of this, of course, accounts for the oh so important user experience or the ecosystems supporting their respective players. As such, we'll reserve final judgment until we have the new Zunes in-hand. Until then you'd best dig in fanboys, that November release is a long way off. The tables that follow will provide the fuel to fight the flame wars in the weeks to come.
Update: Battery data updated with information found on Amazon.com.
The Zune 80GB certainly holds its own when pitted against the 80GB iPod classic on a specification table. That's not the case, however, with the iPod touch as long as you're willing to sacrifice the bytes for the touch's bigger display and heftier price tag. It's a tougher call on the flash-based Zune vs. the iPod nano -- just how important is WiFi to you on a 1.8-inch display? None of this, of course, accounts for the oh so important user experience or the ecosystems supporting their respective players. As such, we'll reserve final judgment until we have the new Zunes in-hand. Until then you'd best dig in fanboys, that November release is a long way off. The tables that follow will provide the fuel to fight the flame wars in the weeks to come.
Update: Battery data updated with information found on Amazon.com.
The Zune 80 with its big 3.2-inch display fits right in between Apple's iPod classic and iPod touch models. As such, we'll give you all three in a side-by-side comparison. Since Microsoft is a bit light on the specs, we've plugged in the information we reasonably expect to carry over from the 1st generation Zune -- otherwise, it's To Be Determined:
| Feature | Zune 80GB |
iPod classic 80GB
| iPod touch 8GB |
|---|---|---|---|
| Price |
$249.99 |
$249.00 |
$299.00 |
| Size (inches) | 4.3 x 2.4 x 0.51 | 4.1 x 2.4 x 0.41 | 4.3 x 2.4 x 0.31 |
| Weight (ounces) |
4.5 | 4.9 | 4.2 |
| Display (inches) | 3.2 | 2.5 |
3.5 |
| Display Type |
LCD | LCD (LED backlight) |
Touch-sensitive LCD |
| Resolution | 320 x 240 (expected) |
320 x 240 |
480 x 320 |
| Navigation | Zune Pad | Click Wheel | Multi-touch |
| WiFi | Yes (802.11b/g expected) | No | 802.11b/g |
| Wireless Sync | Yes | No | No |
| Wireless Share | Yes | No | No |
| Wireless Store | No | No | Yes |
| Web Browser | No | No | Yes |
| Battery | 20 hours music (WiFi off) / 5 hours video |
30 hours music / 5 hours video |
22 hours music / 5 hours video |
| Battery Charge Time |
2.25 hours / 1.25 hour to 90% via USB |
4 hours / 2 hours to 80% |
3 hours / 1.5 hours to 80% |
| Audio Support |
WMA, protected WMA, WMA Lossless, MP3, MP3 VBR, AAC (expected) |
AAC, protected AAC, MP3, MP3 VBR, Audible, Apple lossless, WAV, and AIFF |
AAC, protected AAC, MP3, MP3 VBR, Audible, Apple lossless, WAV, and AIFF |
| Video Support |
WMV, H.264, MPEG-4 |
H.264, MPEG-4 | H.264, MPEG-4 |
| FM Tuner |
Yes | No |
No |
| Headphones | "Premium" earbuds |
Apple earbuds | Apple earbuds |
| PC / Mac compatible |
Yes / No |
Yes / Yes |
Yes / Yes |
| Client Software |
Zune Software |
iTunes |
iTunes |
| Colors | Black | Silver, Black | Black |
Now on to the flash-based Zunes which like Apple's best selling iPod nano, will likely be Microsoft's top sellers:
| Feature | Zune 4 / 8GB | iPod nano 4 / 8GB |
|---|---|---|
| Price |
$149.99 / $199.99 |
$149.00 / $199.00 |
| Size (inches) | 1.6 x 3.6 x 0.33 |
2.8 x 2.1 x 0.26 |
| Weight (ounces) |
1.7 | 1.7 |
| Display (inches) | 1.8 | 2.0 |
| Display Type |
LCD | LCD (LED backlight) |
| Resolution | 320 x 240 |
320 x 240 |
| Navigation |
Zune Pad |
Click Wheel |
| WiFi | Yes (802.11b/g expected) |
No |
| Wireless Sync | Yes | No |
| Wireless Share | Yes | No |
| Wireless Store | No | No |
| Web Browser | No | No |
| Battery | 20 hours music (WiFi off) / 4 hours video |
24 hours music / 5 hours video |
| Battery Charge Time |
2.5 hours / 1.5 hours to 90% via USB |
3 hours / 1.5 hours to 80% |
| Audio Support |
WMA, protected WMA, WMA Lossless, MP3, MP3 VBR, AAC (expected) |
AAC, protected AAC, MP3, MP3 VBR, Audible, Apple lossless, WAV, and AIFF |
| Video Support |
WMV, H.264, MPEG-4 |
H.264, MPEG-4 |
| FM Tuner |
Yes | No |
| Headphones | Microsoft earbuds |
Apple earbuds |
| PC / Mac compatible |
Yes / No |
Yes / Yes |
| Client Software |
Zune Software |
iTunes |
| Colors | Pink, Green, Black, Red | Silver, Black, Blue, Green, (PRODUCT) RED |
Oh, here's what Zune "premium" headphones look like. Sorry, no useful data but that cable has a certain rugged, mountaineering look to it dontchathink?
In the comparison table, both the iPods & Zunes are marked as supporting MPEG-4. Does that mean that they both play divx/xvid avis, or is that a different proprietary version of mpeg-4?
Cheers.
DviX/XviD video codecs are MPEG-4 based. If configured accordingly, they can produce MPEG-4 compatible streams. But normally they don't. Also MPEG-4 specifies also container file .mp4, but DviX traditionally uses heavily hacked .avi files. (DivX by default uses MP3 codec for audio, MPEG-4 - AAC.)
Check www.divx.com - it has list of many (not all) devices supporting DivX.
Again, DivX/XviD != MPEG-4.
Which sucks.
They're not that damned different - Why haven't they paid the damned license fees already? Give me SOME codec choice. Pain in the ass monopolists....
DivX and XVid are MPEG-4 part 2 implementations, but they belong to the 'Advanced Simple Profile', which the iPod is not capable of displaying: it is 'Simple Profile' only. Don't know about the Zune but it is probably the same.
Btw, H.264 is also a MPEG-4 format (MPEG-4 Part 10)
If properly stored in an MP4 container, the Zune (and any proper MPEG-4 compliant device) will play XviD/DivX codec video -- assuming that the video resolution and bit rate is compatible.
XviD and DivX (more so DivX) are proprietary implementations of the MPEG-4 SP/ASP codec. Admittedly, the flexibility and ubiquity of the AVI container is one the primary reasons why the people behind DivX 'hacked' MPEG-4 video into it.
I don't get how Zune, looking to take market share from the iPod, wouldn't include the two biggest formats on the net, Xvid and divx. Same thing with the 360. I'm holding out for the new zen vision w, whenever that comes out.
There is also a hack on Zuneboards.com that allows .avi and other new files to be supported for the current Zune, not sure about the new firmware, though.
The reason XviD and DivX are so rarely supported by these major manufacturers in their multimedia devices (PSP, X-Box 360 and PS3 included) has less to do with paying codec fees and more to do with not wanting to piss off media allies. With XviD/DivX being the preferred method for encoding ripped television shows and DVDs these days, supporting them in their products would be seen by some in the industry as support for piracy. That the PSP could play movies at all earned Sony, who themselves have a major motion picture arm, considerable scorn from their peers in the motion picture industry.
how about not having to go through the process of hacking a player, there are so many players that support the formats, creative,archos, iriver etc, I hate how people looking to not get an iPod just jump the gun and get a Zune without doing research
I do not like Itunes. I have used Itunes and I am not an "M$" fanboy. I dislike the interface and prefer WMP (any competent person can use WMP). I don't like Apple interfaces in general, and the products are too hyped.
And I really don't understand why every single apple fanboy must use "M$". I don't see ms fanboys doing the same thing even though apple is, this may surprise some of you, just as greedy. I think it might have something to do with the fact that both apple and ms are businesses (I may be wrong, but that is my understanding) and businesses like to make money for the stockholders and employees (this is capitalism, right?)
Oh well, here is a very misleading name. Apple. Apples are pretty non-toxic (except for small amounts of arsenic in the seeds) and I don't think that they harm the environment (don't trees consume carbon dioxide and produce oxygen?). Get this, Apple (the company) isn't very environmentally friendly (quite the opposite actually).
Sorry for the rant, ignorant hypocrites are quite annoying.
theres gunna be a new vision:w? mines way too big :P
unless you're thinking of the Creative ZEN
@Dragod, sort of. I use it today, but all it really does is make the Zune software see those file types as video in the software. The Zune software then uses DirectShow codecs to convert those files to a WMV that the Zune can handle. It works, but what the update will provide is native playback of those mp4 formats as you'd typically find in video blogging. You will still be able to watch Divx/XviD movies if you convert them, just as today. Given that I can reduce an entire DVD to ~300 MB for a 320x240 WMV, that conversion process is worth it... should also result in longer playback too since the HDD consumes most of the power on devices like this, and not the decompression routines.
I'll take one 80GB Zune please! :-)
Looked like parity to me. Until the Wind0ze only "Zune" software hit the list.
M$ can do good software. But seems out of principle never do when plain (non-pro) customers care. (Compare M$Office and M$DevStudio to rest of M$ shagware.)
I personally would avoid Zune only and solely due to extra software it requires to operate.
P.S. Oh, and well, I haven't tested Zune, but iPod sound quality (with proper earphones) is really outstanding. Few other players I had before handled classics, jazz and metal as perfectly as does iPod. My cheap Senheiser CX300 really put to shame Sansa and Creative players (flash based!!!) with their electrical noises during playback. Intolerable.
because iTunes is not an additional software ??????? take off your mask Steve, you're busted
Looked like a win on features for the flash-based Zunes when compared to the nano for me.
Am I the only one who immediately stops reading what someone writes when they refer to Microsoft as M$?
Seriously, do you think that you are witty by doing it? Oh how clever! Honey come look at what this chap wrote on the internet! See how he changed the S in Microsoft to a money symbol to symbolize that they are greedy? Isn't he so clever?
> because iTunes is not an additional software???????
Because I use iTunes for 4(?) years now. And it is "good enough". And always was.
On other side M$ never managed to produce anything decent forced on everybody the ugly and unusable WMP.
As much as WMP interferes with whole OS, I expect not less from Zune software. After all all from M$ has to be grandiose, screwing *everything* installed before.
Just recall first Zune software fiasco. That was laughable. Did they learned their lessons? Dunno. Will see. At moment, additional software requirement goes against them since they remake it all the time - not much for fixing old problems as to much as to introduce new ones.
Presence of iTunes is neutral to me: i had 100% positive experience with it.
Presence of Zune is negative to me: though I never tried it, it was reported all the net as defunct.
"Will they learned their lessons?"
Good lord! Will your learned your grammar already!
On a different note, just because you've had Itunes installed for four years now, doesn't mean the entire population has.
One sure way of finding out a Microsoft fanboy, watch them get all whiny when you type M$, Microsuck, etc.
M$ M$ M$ M$
If imitation is the sincerist form of flattery Apple should be dark maroon by now.
And all you M$ fanboys, how does it feel to be circlejerking around a product that's just a cheap imitation of an original? Basically there's leaders and followers, those who create, and those who only know to copy, M$ fanboys are the latter, followers. Without Apple, you'd be using floppies, working in DOS, and using clunky Creative MP3 players hooked up to your FUGLY beige computers probably using an ultrawide SCSI. Oh, you'd still be single, living in your parents basement, and still incredibly big losers who'd never have kissed a girl, but your life has only been made better by M$'s copying Apple at every turn because there isn't an original idea in any of Microsuck, or your, vacuous heads.
Flame on tards, you're pathetic and weak, the funny part is, you'll always be a step behind while you think you're not. What a sad, sad lot your are.
@Rick
Make me a pretty picture on your individualistic MacBooc please and then send me a picture of yourself from Photobooth!
@Blue
$hut up, you M$ fanboy a$$
If you haven't used both devices, keep your snarky opinions to yourself.
I've used both and owned both and the Zune was better than the iPod classic but even the new implementation isn't as good as the iTouch.
I will give props to the Zune team for allowing v1 owners to get the new firmware.
THANK YOU!
Yep, always a step behind. If the Zune went away, iPods would continue to innovate. If the iPod went away, you'd be sitting on the same Zune design for the better part of a decade.
Like Amazon MP3, the new Zune marketplace will have some growth as long as Apple is contractually forced to have DRM. Once they're able to drop it, that'll be the end of that. In M$ speak: DRM-free music is Zune's Halo, but unlike Halo it's easily replicated.
LMAO, most MS fans are idiots. They really have no legitimate argument for anything MS. yeah, I said it...bring it on. Most people that mouth off about apple is because they really do not have a clue about the OS or the company. I on the other hand have worked for both and anyone educated on the topic sees what MS does time and time again....get an original thought or just keep quite so you do not look like an idiot time and time again.
I have an iPod nano 1st gen and the sound quality is notably lower than my old Creative players. Historically speaking, iPods [with the exception of the 1st gen shuffle] have had terrible sound quality. Psychosomatic,perhaps?
Actually, using rhetoric akin to 'Microsuck', 'M$', and so on, is a sign that an argument has no factual basis but instead is used only to garner an emotional response.
As to allegations that Microsoft cannot innovate or is only copying Apple, I submit to you that there is no conceivable design for an MP3 player that is not rectangular and striving for a smaller and smaller size. And I didn't notice wifi appearing on any iPods until after the Zune came out, but for the love of god, it's competing products, you don't have a stake in which one is better, so either give some verifiable facts relevant to the issue at hand or get the hell out.
@ John
The latest iPod touch is a giant screen with only a single physical button; the iPod shuffle clips to your clothing. Zune's interface still isn't as intuitive and user friendly as the decade-old clickwheel. So no, there is no natural limitation to MP3 player design besides the designer's imagination (or lack thereof).
Happy?
Yeah, I've been using the Zune Software with my Zune now for about 8 Months. It's pretty solid if you are used to WMP. And, I don't know about you, but as long as you have your PC Configured correctly, just about any program will run properly, on Vista OR XP. I choose to call it "User Error" (Or the old ID10T Error...)
Then, for whatever go knows why reason, I tried installing the new version of iTunes on my PC. WHOA! What a mistake that was! That app is so slow and non responsive, I did a restore on my PC to get it off!
Yeah, some of us get upset when people refer to Microsoft as "M$", but I've just come to know it as a company that has sold so many OS's that of COURSE they are going to be rolling in dough. If there was only an "S" in Apple, it would be full of Dollar signs as well... Probably more so. At least M$ Doesn't have to be like your creepy uncle that's trying really hard to be liked.
Anyways, Go Zune! Hurry up with that Firmware release for my old Zune30!
"Seriously, do you think that you are witty by doing it? Oh how clever! Honey come look at what this chap wrote on the internet! See how he changed the S in Microsoft to a money symbol to symbolize that they are greedy? Isn't he so clever?"
Best when read in the style of Stewie Griffin.
Also, you forgot the "WinDoze" :).
@Rick:
And Apple stole the concept of an MP3 player from Diamond. Whoopty-freakin-do. Apple isn't creative, it isn't special, and it isn't a damned bit different. Your life is meaningless. Just face it, dude, you're a loser who has no life and who uses a corporate brand as a reason for existence.
Like Maddox said... One thing PC users can do, that Mac users can't: SHUT THE (@&*# UP.
"Zune's interface still isn't as intuitive and user friendly as the decade-old clickwheel."
BS! The clickwheel uses the same motions to go left and right as it does to go up and down! Circles shouldn't be used to navigate a rectangular interface. Plus, have you ever noticed that when you scroll clockwise to go down, you're also moving your finger up? Is that really intuitive? Maybe if the iPod firmware had a wheel-based GUI, but it has a rectangular-based one, which is best navigated by a D-pad. Shut up about the intuitiveness of the wheel, because it's just a gimmick Apple's been able to pull off for a decade due to its blind fans.
Why are we comparing this to the iPod? Or the iPod Touch? The iPod is just a fad. It isn't even a fanboy thing. The ipod used to be a cool gadget, so I bought one and everyone else did. Mac has moved on since then because even Steve Jobbs knows that fads never last. That's why he created the iPhone. Just stop being so bitchy and look at it with an open mind. Microsoft has taken the harddrive-based MP3 player one more step, and they did a great job at it. My props to them, and I'm definately going to buy one.
And stop telling me that Apple is "innovative." Apple is very artistic, I'll give them that. But if you've been into the electronics industry for more than a week, you have to admit they're just another microsoft. Another company with a bigger budget than all the rest, so they can get more advertising and engineers than other worthy competitors.
The iPod touch should be compared to an MS-based handheld IMO. It's been done before and it doesn't look too good (specifications-wise of course . . I mean the thing looks amazing.)
I don't think any regular tech enthusiast will ever understand devoted apple consumers. To a mac enthusiast, apple is a lifestyle. It's a religion. It's what they live and die for. So you like apple products? Keep it to yourself. We know you'll never change your minds, or listen to anyone else's opinion. Mac could market an abacus and you would call it innovative and beautiful.
Most of us base our opinions quality and reason, and could care less about MS vs. Mac. To be honest, until I have stock invested in one of them, I could care less if either company burned in hell.
I'm not saying that everyone that owns a mac is like this, but after reading most of the posts on this site, it scares me to think that these people make regular day-to-day decisions on their own. You're given an exact comparison, Zune vs. iPod 80g, as simple as black and white, and you still stick with the iPod? With my experience with both devices, using windows XP (in case you're wondering), the Zune outperforms in every category, including memory usage. Zune uses 1 program in memory all the time (zunelauncher.exe) and is about 3mb, and has never performed illegal operations or screwed my computer up. iPodlauncher.exe and itunesservice constantly have memory usage spikes and problems. I'm sticking with my zune. Why? because it's better. simple.
apple fans are zealots to emperor jobs who immitate jobs's witty accusation of microsoft. apple fans are the insecure teenagers who need a constant battle against the other 90% of the computer world to be assured that they are making their point. please, no more.
i have the zune and my girlfriend has an ipod. i like the zune but i'm not against the ipod. what really pisses me off is that the zune requires zune software that is a replica of WMP, which gates shoved in every windows. I really don't understand why a new software is needed when WMP is perfectly sufficient to handle everything zune software can.
When you look at another breakdown the Zune and the iPod really aren't that similar. It's a tough call which one offers more, however. They could both stand to improve:
http://comparati.com/883-Zune-vs-iPod
Turd brown replaced by puke green.
Yeah, that's real progress for MS.
'tard comment
Yes, because we all know that offering customers CHOICES is somehow a bad idea....
It's not about giving choices, it's about giving good choices. Zune designers need to learn how to use a Pantone color palette, because excluding black these colors are busted.
You know, as someone with a Powerbook G4, Macbook, and iPod nano, I'd not respect MS work. However, if you open your eyes and look at the new Zunes, they actually look a lot hell of a lot better than both the iPod nano 3g and iPod classic. The touch notwithstanding, I think the Zunes look notably better. Furthermore, the classic has received absolutely terrible reviews for sound quality. I own multiple Apple products but would say from a sheer asthetic standpoint that the current MS players [aside from the touch] just look better. End of story.
How can you say that? Have you seen the new nano colours? Apart from the red and black, they're pretty vile.
The worst part is, according to zunescene.com, is that the color isn't "puke green" it's "old army jeep green." That is also called O.D. or olive drab. I think "drab" sums it up for me.
it would be nice to throw in some non-RIAA sanctioned players in the mix, with an 'ecosystem' consisting of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_mass_storage_device_class
Seriously, USB Flash Drives are NOT players. They STORE things :O
Any person who announces to the world they love their Flash Drives as a player are being a smartass. And probably has tons of illegal MP3's, and feel like they're better than any other person who legitmately purchases their music.
Good for you. On the other hand, I prefer buying physical media (oh noes, back to t3h stoneage for you!), rip it to WMA Pro, and lock out every single person on the interweb simply becuse WMA Pro is unpopular. Why the hell would I want to give you something that I paid for, unless you're a close friend. Which you're not.
So keep sharing your music via USB and be a rebel.
BlissX,
I am *not* talking about simple flash drives as "players". You do realise that there are a whole bunch of devices selling out there that work on any modern operating system and that don't require a burdensome one-way application on every machine to get playable music on them, don't you?
You can also get music off them with the greatest of ease.
Your comment about physical media is funny, because i would have to be the biggest proponent of CD. But again, I'm not sure what point you were trying to make there but posturing about my "stone age"; the same can be done with any portable audio device that doesn't require proprietary apps to get stuff on (and OFF) itself.
I honestly don't know what you're complaining about, aside from the fact that perhaps u don't know there are devices out there that can do perfectly well without an app to "manage" their own restrictions.
I am talking about players that utilise drag n drop, copy n paste, just like a data drive, but that play music. These devices exist. They don't require a proprietary application to put audio on them. They can also be used to copy audio and data back to the computer, too.
Existing devices can be used for piracy too. I'm really not sure what your point is and your accusations I'll just ignore.
What we have here are RIAA-restricted devices that can only transfer audio through special apps, ONE-WAY.
Why?
For the RIAA's benefit. Look into the Cowon and Meizu products to see what I'm on about. They don't require any of this nonsense and their codec support is excellent. And they are not just "flash drives".
Microsoft Zune: Very nice complimentary colors and design.
Apple: shoddy incoherent looking product mix
Microsoft +1 IMO... now market the hell out of it... seriously I'd like one of each.
It's Microsoft Bob! Where you been Bob? Microsoft call you out of retirement to shill for their new baby, eh?
lol MIcrosoft Bob!! too funny..
I think both these products, ipod and zune suck, what do you think of that? Maybe I have strange ideas in what I want in a PMP.. I don't know. But I want an AM tuner, the ability to record from said tuner, larger flash drives, faster cpu's, and a rugged design that's built to last and protect my files. 1 drop = ipod death, at least it was for me. Overall though I have chosen Ipod historically, so maybe I will give a zune a try. As long as the thing doesn't try and tell me I can't play my own tunes after 3 days, I will personally wage jihad on microsoft if they pulled some shit like that.
But I want people who use "said" so unnecessarily and pretentiously to die.
Orpheus my friend, surely you aren't threatening me with grievous bodily harm or death are you? Thank God I'm well armed and work for the FBI out of the Chicago Field Office or I might actually be scared of you. Internet Tuffguys are scarey!!!!
Oh dude, don't piss that guy off. He'll totally tear you a new one on his LiveJournal.
So revamping your product line from top to bottom with dyed aluminum casing (even the touch has black aluminum around it's huge screen) is an incoherent redesign? Over puke-ass green and a red that looks like an old woman's lipstick?
@Kinowolf:
As far as I can tell, Apple revamped their line with black that looks like industrial sludge and a silver that resembles the shackles used to bring the Africans over to the states to be sold for slavery. Yes, you can think of something horrid for any color.
And I believe he meant incoherent in terms of the Nano getting pug fugly, the classic not changing a significant bit since the first iPod, and the Touch being a handicapped iPhone knockoff. That screams laziness. The Zunes, however, got significantly better - the touch interface changed, flash-based Zunes were released (and look pretty nice might I add), the original's design got refined, AND the original Zune got a free upgrade to 2.0 software. That's significant and well thought out.
Might just get me a flash-Zune to compliment my 80gb iPod Classic.
@ Tom
The Zunes got significantly better... by catching up with Apple design? Saying the Zune is better because the iPod isn't as far ahead is pretty backwards logic. I agree that the iPod touch needs more space (at least 30GB) to really take the lead, but we know that with Apple it's right around the corner. With Zune? A year later we have pretty much the same design in a few more colors.
Coming up with bad adjectives for a color isn't the problem, the problem is that the colors aren't aesthetically pleasing. And the shackles of slaves in the colonial period wouldn't have been polished or even brushed metal, they would have been dull wrought iron or even black.
@Kinowolf:
What of the Zune reminds you of the iPod? The vertical screen or the wireless sync?
I mentioned nothing of "catching up to Apple design". In fact, Apple design went DOWN this revision - have you tried the new UI? I own a classic and owned a 30gb video - the new interface is horridly slow and damn near unusable coming out of sleep mode. So, I suppose you might think that Apple design is actually catching up with the Zune, in the fact that it's getting worse.
I, however, believe that the Zune's design this revision was fantastic - a whole new player, new touchpad, new interface, more codecs, but the most important is that the 1st adopters get a FREE UPGRADE - something Apple would never do. That is significant, and goes light years past Apple's intentions. The Touch might have gotten Apple out of this one, but it is a handicapped iPhone clone with pitiful storage for a serious DAP.
I always found wireless sync to be really funny. If you're close enough to your computer to wirelessly sync, why not just put it in a dock? And if you need to sync it means you've changed your computer's library... so aren't you already sitting next to your computer? Honestly think about it. As for FM tuner, who still listens to the radio?
As for the touch, negatively comparing it to another Apple product is a pretty weak argument, but I also agree that it needs more memory (at least 30 GB) to really pull ahead of the pack in terms of features. Even as a Mac/iPod user I'm critical of Apple (I'm glad Amazon MP3 was able to push DRM-free music for example and will probably use it until Apple drops DRM), but one product's shortcomings don't automatically become a competitor's strength. If I say I'm 6'1" and I'm really 6', it doesn't change the fact that you're 5'10".
@ Kinowolf
Just because you don't use the FM Tuner, a million others like me would totally welcome one either on their phone or mp3 player. I have no clue what the ipod and iphone have against FM tuner. That's just one of the reason why it's holding me back from purhasing an ipod or an iphone because of their restrictions to it's owners.
An FM Tuner is dead weight. Seriously, Apple is doing you a favor.
I am holding off on buying an mp3 until these BABIES come out. The specifics are nice. I see the Apple fanatics marching in line right now LMAO. They will prob say this is an iPod rip off like everything else in the world is from Apple.
I prefer the zune pad(clickable) than Apple's click wheel any day.
Considering that you are saying that you prefer the Zune pad to the clickwheel when YOU HAVE NEVER USED the Zune Pad, I'd say it's you who are the fanatic.
Ugh come again???
I have used the Zune's pad on the first Zune. I am sure they both CLICK despite an almost circle.
Jesus...
The new zune pad is different.
"I am holding off on buying an mp3 until these BABIES come out."
You do realize you can listen to them without a portable player, right? Go ahead and join your eMusics. Btw, free vocabulary lesson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_audio_player
Trent is such an ignorant MS fanboy. The touch pad is totally different from the original. No paying consumer has used the new pad.
"I see the Apple fanatics marching in line right now LMAO. They will prob say this is an iPod rip off like everything else in the world is from Apple."
It's funny when FANTATICS try to paint OTHER FANATICS as crazy. And if you're lame enough to think "Laugh My Ass Off," at least type it out.
I think some of us are jumping the gun here. What happened to all the Zune haters prior to this announcement? Everyone was calling the first Zune "boring" or "bland", but now the Zune update is being embraced before it's even on the market yet!
I'm guessing since there are so many problems with the current line-up of iPods, this left an opening for other competitors to get some air time. It just so happens to be Microsoft is releasing their update right now.
Maybe I'm just generalizing here, but I can't the difference between people who are praising the new Zune because it's something new or because it's a work of fanboyism.
The Microsoft Flash Zune looks like a Mickey Mouse product to me.
Yup, pull its years, and you can hear Michael Eisner say "copyright terms should last forever" and "no one watches 2D animation anymore".
Why the low rank? The squircle and buttons on the Flash Zune looks like Mickey Mouse's head and ears!
I guess people cant see beyond hate eh?
If Microsoft (aka Micro$oft aka M$) would price a 16GB Zune for 50% less than Apple, the iPod would go the way of the Walkman (as in fad(e)away...).
Why Apple waited after others to release a 16gb flash model (meanwhile 32G and 64G SSD are out) and charge more is typical.
Meanwhile, the curve has just changed: car stereo makers are skipping the audio player and just making "media slots" for your music. Deathknell for CDs?
Nobody would actually buy a Zune would they? What's happened to the diarrhea brown color? This is hillarious. It reminds me of how supermarkets copy well established brands, whether it be your washing powder or flat screen TV. The difference is that supermarkets cut the price and market the product on the basis 'why pay more for something as good as the leading brand?' and are explicit about copying the established product. I mean, the Zune pad is just taking the piss. Thing is, Microsoft aren't selling their shoddy iPod copies for any less than the real thing!
There are countless examples of Microsoft stealing ideas, especially from Apple, but the Zune is the most laughable and embarrassing. Microsoft have no ideas of their own except that touch screen coffee table that children have been inventing every year for decades for a school project.
The Zune reminds me of that Simpsons baby translator episode; I quote "People are afraid of new things. You should have just taken an existing product and put a clock on it or something". Or in this case, an FM radio and some useless battery draining wi-fi shit.
Oh dear apple fanboi go home!
The Zune is quite a good effort actually, and almost, infact is comparable to the ipod classic now - I just bought a classic given the choice between the 2 I would seriously need to think about it.
As for Microsoft stealing all apples ideas, well I have a little bit of news for you - everyone takes ideas off everyone, including your beloved apple! Apple have great products and fantasic designs and OS's, however they are not responsible for every mp3 innovation.
And then you are complaining that Wifi is a gimmick.. why does the touch have Wifi then!?
oh god, not one of *you* people.
hey microsoft fanboy i mean Chrisphillers,
he may actually be at home, u never kno...
AT least Microsoft figured out a way to offer a FM tuner, and a screen worth watching a movie on, as well as wireless synching as social networking features.
For someone who is just stealing ideas from apple they seem to be doing pretty well at beating Apple to the punch. Six generations of IPODS and still no FM tuner???
So if multiple companies answers what the Market has been asking for, one of them is copying the other?
Hey look! My Mazda has a tank that holds gas just like your Honda! Why can't Mazda be original?!?
"And then you are complaining that Wifi is a gimmick.. why does the touch have Wifi then!?"
Maybe, just MAYBE it's for the full-blown browser complete with tabbed-browsing support. That is hardly a gimmick. A gimmick is wifi syncing. What good is wireless syncing when you will be putting the device in a cradle at home to charge anyway?
to Chrisphillers:
The problem is that the Zune is NOT "quite a good effort" - it's an aggressively mediocre effort. As an iPod fanboy (aside : please, please, PLEASE dear sweet zombie jesus stop using the "boi" derivation - "as annoying as ten tons of whale crap" doesn't begin to describe that usage), the main problem I ever see with the Zune is that the only things that actually distinguish it in usage (leaving out things like styling) from every other DAP out there are the things that are hobbled. Otherwise, I'll just get a Samsung/Sandisk/Meizu/iRiver/Creative/WhateverTheHell player with the same damn feature set (aside from those features that MS botched), or an iPod for it's specific interface and ties to iTMS.
Microsoft just looks like they're half-assing their way through this and expecting the Anything-But-iPod lemmings to buy it simply because it's not an iPod.
C'mon, guys. Make a kick-ass player that makes people NEED to buy it. Maybe then you'll get more than just the anti-iPod wingnuts to trumpet it as awesome.
Of all the specs, the "premium" earbuds may hurt the iPod the most. As most people seem to judge the iPod's sound quality by the included earbuds, I can see it taking a hit there.
That and the fact you'd have to be on crack (or a MAC owner) to choose the iPod classic 80GB over the Zune 80.
Microsoft Bob strikes again! Bad Bob!
Whereas you seem to judge products based on their adspeak.
Bob is Microsoft supplying you with crack by any chance?
Wow, I'm being attacked by both MS _AND_ Apple Fanbois at the same time! Woot!
Look at my actual words Stevie boy. "the 'premium' earbuds may hurt the iPod the most." MAY hurt it. MAY hurt it. I can't possibly judge the product because the product isn't available. The only thing that ANYONE can do at this point in time is to go off of the adspeak.
Apple's earbuds have an incredibly bad reputation. Apple's iPod inherits this bad reputation. The fact that people may be too stupid to realize that it's the earbuds and not the iPod doesn't matter. The iPod gets low marks from a lot of people because of the earbuds.
If, that's _IF_ Microsoft's "premium" earbuds are any good at all, the same people above who give the iPod low marks will give the Zune high marks. And Apple and the iPod will take a hit because of it.
Even if the iPod itself produced superior sound to the Zune using identical earbuds/headphones, it DOES NOT MATTER. This is a perception thing. This is a marketing thing. The iPod will take a hit if Microsoft's "premium" earbuds are any good at all.
The headphones look really nice as well. Look like decent pair of canalphones with a fabric based cord that looks difficult to tangle.
And they aren't 'mug me' white either. :)
SO BORED WITH THIS! Hey Endgadget- how about an all-iPhone/Zune site and we get back to 90% news that's not iPhone-related here?
An mp3 player is for playing music - i still dont see the point of watching a film on a tiny screen
Therefore its ipods for me, just because of the sound quality. Obviously you need to buy a decent set of senns.
Also i dont care what it looks like, i want products that work - and when a company cant even make an os that works, what chance do they stand with a mp3 player?
yes i am an apple fanboy, but only cos i like to live an efficient life.
Actually, Jake, I believe that it's already been demonstrated that the Zune has better sound reproduction than iPod line (excluding the shuffle). Sorry, I don't have a link available, but worth looking into.
Well, i will withdraw that point until i can buy one and listen - oh wait i use macs as well being a mac fanboy, cos if the sound quality is better i would quite happily get a zune, but i cant, thats 10% of the market gone.
As for my other points, they still stand.
Plus i use an ipod mini currently, i dont kno how the sound fairs with that.
Well why talk about sound quality comparisons, then, if it's a moot point for you?
i think u misunderstand, that or i dont kno what moot means - sound quality is the most important, i was merly agreeing with you that until i actual get them side by side and listen to them both i will not kno for sure. i was then expanding on the fact that if i then decided that the zune was superior in sound quality i would then be unable to use one, cos microsoft wont make it mac compatible.
"when a company cant even make an os that works, what chance do they stand with a mp3 player?"
Seriously that's got to be one of the stupidest comments I've ever heard, and I can't believe no one else has commented on it yet.
How many mp3 players are there? I can't say infinite, but damn it's close.
Now how many operating systems are there? There are 2 major ones in the US, and the Linux/unix platform or whatever you want to call it. I'm not sure about the rest of the world. But if every country only had 2 in addition to the US's, it would still be smaller than the number of mp3 players out there.
If you can't see the point here it's that just about everyone can make an mp3 player. Not everyone can invest the time and money necessary to develop a working, successful operating system. The fact is that Microsoft still holds a high market share when it comes to operating systems. Even people who buy Apple hardware sometimes put the Microsoft operating system on their machines.
Just because you prefer the kindergarten colors and shinnies that OSX has doesn't mean that XP or even Vista (the piece of shit that it is right now) isn't successful. Way to go being one of the prime examples of why logical people hate Mac fanboys.
Idiot.
oh dear, seems like someone took a small bit of a joke too far. hence why no one has replied to it.
I hope the time you spent writing out all that spiel was worth it,
next time i will mark things like that with little marks, and save you some time.
Also please dont use insults, im sure the engagdet team prefer to keep there site as clean as possible.
Also, u mite wanna look into how microsoft got that big market share.
yur replies make no sense?? what do u mean?
with little marks, for example
*i think windows is great*
Ya know something? I'm really getting sick of the click wheel. This is the first time I'm noticing it, but all the iPods with it kinda look plaid.
I still like my 8gb nano 2nd gen though. I guess its 'cuz the phatty is hideous and the classic looks like its the same one as 3 years ago when they first introduced the click wheel to the "classic."
Anyways, the Zunes look really nice and I'm guessing they're gonna capture more market share this year. I'm still gonna get either get the iPhone or touch though...
iPhone and iPod Touch seem to me as a sign that Apple is sick of the click wheel as well.
Or, to be more accurate, they need something new to sell since they are coming pretty close to saturating their potential market with iPod Classic/Nanos. They need something to keep the growth up.
Isn't it sad. They created a product that enjoys ultimate recognition and incredible sales, now they're in transition and prepping to basically kill it since they sold it to everyone who ever might have wanted it.
One could argue they managed to outdo themselves with Touch, but at some point, they'll fail in the next transition, and it'll be game over.
It's similar with Microsoft and them trying to outdo themselves with each version of Windows, so people have reasons to upgrade. 3.x was nice, 95 was nice, so was 98, 98SE, (let's skip ME), 2000 and XP. And then Vista.
The "Vista" day will come for iPods as well.
I bet, I just bet, if the day comes that there are no click wheels for the iPods the multi-touch display will have a virtual click wheel interface.
I, for one, need to be able to navigate my player easily while driving, and the click wheel does that perfectly.
I disagree with your "The 'Vista' day will come" analysis of what Apple is doing. Any modern tech company that wants to survive MUST continue to innovate and update its product line if it wants to stay in the game. Atari and Commodore are examples of companies that didn't. Palm is an example of one that has been falling behind, but still has a chance to get back on the band wagon.
I do agree that the phenomenon of the "Vista Day" is real, but think that it is more indicative of when a company makes a poor decision in choosing how to move forward. If Vista ran 2x faster than XP, didn't nag the user, came with drivers for almost every device, AND had a slicker interface than OSX, then Microsoft would have set the new standard, and Apple would be playing catch up.
As for the music players, it looks like the Zune is also playing catchup: simply because they are basically matching the iPod's existing line, but they are just NOW coming to the market.
No sensible person would deny that Apple has raised the bar by merging the iPod with a phone and adding the multi touch interface. And they've covered all the bases by producing a product line that gives you choices; Classic, Touch, or iPhone.
If Microsoft wants to knock Apple off the MP3 player throne, they need to leapfrog the iPhone and create something that makes it look obsolete, not enter the market with a player that matches where the bar was set 2 years ago.
BTW, i don't own any Apple products, so I'm not a fan boy of Steve & Co.
"No sensible person would deny that Apple has raised the bar by merging the iPod with a phone and adding the multi touch interface."
i guess i'm not sensible then.