New Zunes support DVD quality video over TV-Out
By Conrad Quilty-Harper 
posted Oct 6th 2007 11:50AM
posted Oct 6th 2007 11:50AM
Zune Insider has a little update about specifics of the new Zunes up on their site, with the rather minor -- but interesting -- tidbit that the new Zunes natively support video of up to 720x480 at 30fps, or 720x576 at 25fps. These formats will only play at full quality via TV-Out -- the Zune display is expected to be a regular 320 x 240 affair -- but it's nice to know that you'll be able to lug around full DVD resolution movies on the next Zune, right?[Thanks, alexsv: via Zune Online]
I personally think this is great. Not only can you finally watch movies off of a portable device at a level competitive with an actual DVD, this technology is clearly the first step microsoft is taking in integrating the Zune Marketplace with Xbox Live Video Marketplace.
It is now completely technically possible for non high definition downloads from Xbox Live's Video Marketplace to be viewable on the new Zune's without any need for re-encoding. The only thing missing is a firmware update and the necessary addition of content to the Zune Marketplace, both of which are only matters of time.
Sweet. The Zune seems to keep getting better.
Thats a great feature i'm glad MS was able to pull it off.
I still believe that the iPod is crippled when it comes to video out because of the deals Apple had to make in order to get content from NBC etc, I believe MS gave in to offering a % of sales from each Zune to some labels so they may have done the same to get video content. I hope that all companies are able to at least get DVD quality videos through their respective online stores and that the units offer at least DVD out on their DAPs.
Not all it needs is this:
http://www.createthefuturecontest.com/pages/view/entriesdetail.html?entryID=365
The theory that iPods are crippled in terms of video out because of media deals would be an interesting one if iPods were crippled in terms of video out.
iPods do 480i video out, and the new ones even do 480p.
This is crippled exactly how?
@the above poster: The ipod is crippled because it plays at the LOWEST tv resolution (480p), this will play at 720i on a TV.
@ Paul:
You do know that 720x480 is not 720i (which doesn't exist, btw). TV formats (like 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i) are vertical resolutions. 720x480 has 480 lines of vertical resolution, so the max would be 480p.
Woo! the zune is looking better, and better
you guys seriously need to compare the Zune to other players except the iPod and you'll see it's nothing special
Why would they need to compare it? No one should buy an iPod or a Zune because a chart says this or that, if it fits what YOU need, just by the damn thing.
@john
yea i have a zen vision:w and use the tv out. I feel it is better than the zune but it is HUGE. Luckly it doesn't go with me, being why i sue an insignia when i go to school and stuff.
Um, yeah........
I mean, the wireless syncing is too cool........wait, you need to be connected to a dock or charger.
I can use the WiFi to browse the internet........what? I can't.......
Oh, but I can firmware update my old Zune and the New ones support DVD quality out.
No you don't, do your f**king research before you post. The zune doesn't have to be docked. You can manually launch the WiFi sync anywhere in your network.
I think it does it automatic when your docked. I think you can manualy set it to wireless sync
Yah man, you don't need a dock to sync! Only to sync automatically.
I don't need to point out the inaccuracy about syncing, because Mike already pointed that out...
I do want to say that I don't understand WHY someone would want to have the internet on a device that doesn't have a full keyboard nor a touch screen. And if it did, I'm sure you'd find some way to bitch about how the keys are too small, or too close together, or doesn't recognize keystrokes.
You people need to quit comparing the Zune to the iPhone/iPod Touch... There is no touchscreen, and the Zune is cheaper. It's competition is the iPod Classic & Nano market, which, if I recall correctly, doesn't allow wireless syncing or the ability to browse the internet either...
So STFU already.
It's too late guys.
Jobs has has him now, god rest his soul.
Awesome, because Apple totally throws down UI updates for all the ipods right? Oh wait... :(
Microsoft's marketing department needs to get its head out of its ass and tell people about these nifty technical features.
Very true. I think the Zune marketing dept budget should get an increase from its annual allocation of $5.00.
I think MS can afford it now that Halo3 is out and no long needs the millions spent on marketing it.
Zune Cocacola any1?
Microsoft got lazy, so Apple outperformed them.
Apple is now getting lazy, so Microsoft is outperforming them.
LOL, yeah that Zune Touch ... oh yeah, wait a minute!
If you want a MS supported PVP with a touch screen, get a PDA. I've had one for a couple of years now. Really, you can't say Apple's iPod Touch was the first to give you a touch screen with PDAs able to play music and video for some time now. Hell! The Archos 605 made it to market well before the Touch, and I'm not even sure if that one was the first dedicated PVP player with touch screen
So will this option be available when updating a Gen 1 Zune as well? I like my 3rd gen Nano, but I couldn't pass up the $99 sale on woot recently for the 30GB Gen 1 Zune. Best of both worlds, WTF!
For crying out loud, it's FTW, not WTF. Damn you auto spell check!!!
dude, that is one hilarious mistake...
(now for something a bit more relevant)
the new zune looks nice, but are they going to be selling it anywhere in Asia? 'cause that's just really irritating if they don't...
I really like Apple products, but Microsoft is dead-on here. When the iPod was first released, they advertised it as a replacement for your CD collection. Now with video, you should be able to take your DVD collection around with you. The Zune is becoming a very nice and capable product, Apple beware.
Tens of movies in your pocket!
@palooz, I dont know what world you are living in, but there is a zune that has an 80 gig drive. Most decent resolution videos that you rip from a dvd are around 400 mbs, so that means you can carry around 200 videos with you and then have them play at a decent resolution on a tv you hook the Zune up to at a friends house.
Utterly Kickass.
Nice. I know not everyone would agree, but it would be nice if if these had a screen that was a little over 4" instead of 3".
I'll be honest...I think the form factor for the Zune is perfect....I know everyone's wants/tastes are different, but for me it's a great form factor. If I'm imterested in a 4"+ screen, I'm going with the Archos...which is amazing....
I'm a big guy with large hands...My wife's new Nano is like a triscuit...The classic is nice, but feels dated and the screen is just ok....the Zune 80 could probobably be just a smidge thinner, but it's the perfect form factor for me to hold and put in my pocket...I can't wait....looks awesome
"My wife's new Nano is like a triscuit."
Hilarious. I don't think I've ever heard a better comparison.
1. Get your TV programs into Windows Media Center
2. Sync your Zune with WMC
3. Take the programs with you to a friend's house & watch in full quality.
4. Drink beer.
:)
Sounds like a plan to me.
Yeah, no joke, everyone's going nuts over DVD's, but think about TV Shows! I can carry tons of standard definition (converted HD)shows and plug it in at my friends house...portable DVR!!
Sweet
I sold my 1st gen zune because I could not get the wmv codec to perform well at ANY bitrate. However this new zune is looking very impresive. Especially with h.264 support.
That's weird ... I use Windows Media Codec all the time and it has great quality and compression at 320x240.
I should mention I'm somewhat of a videophile ^_^.
so you like your porn in hi-def?
Actually, me and my religion are against porn, in all of its forms. I do however, enjoy star wars and lord of the rings in the highest quality possible. However, I have not yet gotten a hd player. But I have a 720p projector and 1080i camera. ^_^
do any of the ipods have video outs?
Yes, check apple.com's store
Yes. Every single iPod that has a color screen has a video output. Even the ones that don't play video.
The iPods have ability for TV-out but at an low resolution.
While certainly you could watch a movie over iPod TV-out connection, it's noticably blurrier.
While DVD quality in fact puts entirely new spin on things. Zune makes a great no-compromise portable DVD player (if you rip the movies in advance, that is..).
Hmmm.. or if you don't, you can ask someone around your PC to rip'em on your PC and do a fast wireless sync :)?
I can see it's shaping up a very nice device. Can't wait to see what Zune 3 will be next year :)... Apple may have something to worry about.
iPods can (and have since 10/12/2005) display 640x480 video on a TV.
The Zune can display 648x486 video on a TV. So here we are, 2 years later, and you guys are trying to say that it's some huge technological advance?
No way! 6 extra scan lines!
Can the Zune play Divx/Xvid? Do you have to rip the videos to Windows Media or by Windows software?
Zune finally picks up H.264 two years after Apple and people are saying MS is scooping Apple somehow?
Previous iPods played 640x480 480i H.264 two years ago. Current iPods do 640x480 480P H.264 video over video out, this new Zune does 720x480 480i video and still isn't even out yet! I can't see how you say the Apple device is behind the curve.
Roger, no Zunes don't play these formats natively, but MS has added built-in transcoding in their Zune PC software (iTunes equivalent) for non-protected videos from these formats to formats Zune does support.
Engadget said, "These formats will only play at full quality via TV-Out"
I hate poor blogging. Is Conrad saying that TV-Out only works if you copied it at DVD quality or is he making the obvious comment that the Zune screen is only 240x320 and therefor can't pay DVD resolution media?
The Zuneinsider article:
" - Actually Zunes will suport a higher resolution than I originally stated."
I assume he's talking about the on screen resolution. I hope to god it's higher than 320x240 . . . though I still don't see myself buying one, it would be really frustrating if they didn't at least support a higher on-screen resolution. Come on, bigger screen + same old resolution = grainer, more washed out viewing experience.
If screen will be the same resolution as iPod Touch, I'm sold (and I don't care if I have to import one since I'm from EU/Italy).
Italy is the EU???
Interesting! What kind of TV Our connector does it have?
I would guess the same as the Zune 1 which is fine seeing as its only 480 you can also hook it up to your Xbox 360 through USB and watch the videos.
wtf people, am i confused here???
apple's new iPods can playback using COMPONENT video... and straight from the dock connector. yes people will bitch, cuz they have to buy a new cable, but the component quality far outplays the composite + s-video quality of previous generations. and because it's through the dock connector and not 3.5mm headset jack, the quality will look close to DVD, same as Zune. as far as i'm concerned microsoft is still playing the matching game with apple's iPod
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=1AB26629&fnode=home/shop_ipod/ipod_accessories/cables_docks&nplm=MB128LL/A
sure, it's upscaled or whatever, but for a cellphone to pull off 480i, and the ultra-thin nano to pump out 480p, this is hardly any reason to jump on board the zune ship
Whats the point of using Component when your using quality under 480i??????
I love my Apple products, but just give the Zune OSX compatability and I'm sold.
If you run parallels or bootcamp, you already can use a zune. Otherwise, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. From a pure cost perspective, I doubt MS would recoup the money they spent investing in an OS X client, considering the relatively small market share vs. Windows, even smaller share that doesn't have Windows running on the device via the afore mentioned mechanisms, and even smaller share that doesn't get into a spitting rage just at the mention of Microsoft. When Apple supported Windows (albiet it originally with the crap ass musicmatch jukebox) it was a very different atmosphere for them than it is for MS supporting OS X now.
The second best selling media player (The Sony PSP) already does that.
oh and its 720x480
@required
The PSP does not support 480p video output. The newest PSP (slim) supports video output but they are composite cables, hard to out put progressive scan video when you aren't using the right cables
LOL, yea if you want 4GB of memory!
What is the internal storage of the PSP? Is it 80 gigs? Is it even 4 gigs? Does it have any internal storage at all? Or are you bringing up a completely unrelated product category for no justifiable reason? My freaking portable DVD player outputs at the same resolution, but that isn't relevant to this topic, anymore than the PSP is.
To be fair, since the PSP's memory is expandle, it is technically, limitless.
I see that some of you are upset that the PSP outperforms and outsells the Zune by so much. It's not that big of a deal, the Zune is just very limited in what it can do, hence why so few sell.
Will this be implemented on the old Zune?
Unless MS has made an announcement specifically about it, I don't think anyone can answer you with any more than speculation. The new Zune's might have dedicated hardware designed for this purpose that the old Zune does not have, or the old Zune's chips might be under utalized, or MS might have figured out an efficient way to do the run time conversion to the lower screen format (for display on the device) using software and the existing chips.
@iPod fans
iPods did not support anything higher than 420i output until the recent release of the iPods and even those only output in 640 x 480 which is good but not as good as the new Zunes. Sorry you lose again.
No, you lose.
The 5G has supported 640x480 480i output since 2005. It didn't do it on day 1, but it was in a software upgrade a LONG time ago.
The new stuff does 640x480 at 480p. Is 640x480 at 480p lower quality than 720x480 at 480i? Many would say 640x480 at 480p is higher quality. It's definitely a point of discussion to say the least.
720x480 @30fps or 720x576 @25fps without transcoding and its outputed at those qualities at 480p through componet cables and yes on a 61" HDTV like mine that makes a load of difference. Also your 640 x 480 420i option didn't come around for iPods until Sept 2006 on the iPod 5.5G 30 and 80 gb iPods.
actually the new ipods support 576p. even the tiny little nano can do 576p. no win for you. k thx, bye.
Thats funny because ever stat site I see about the new iPods says 480i 640 x 480 so unless you are on drugs or have a site to prove your statement I will have write you off as another iPod fanboy who doesn't want to realise when you are beat.
What people aren't understanding is that even though the Zune's screen doesn't display DVD resolution, you can still put DVD quality video on it which will look fine on the Zune's screen and will look fantastic when using TV Out.
The iPod has had TV out for some time now but here's the difference: You still have to convert any video you put on your iPod to match the resolution of the iPod's screen. Yes the iPod can display tv out at 480p but the image quality isn't very good because you were forced to degrade the quality of the video in the first place for it to even work on the iPod.
The new Zune can playback DVD resolutions on itself meaning that even though the quality of the video you see on the zune is the same as an iPod(classic not touch) when it comes to video out the Zune has a higher resolution video file to send to a television.
You have to convert any video you play on Zune too. DVDs are MPEG2 at high bitrates (6-11mbps). Playing this video on a portable media player is not battery-life efficient. You have to spin up the drive 3x as often to play 9mbps data as you do 3mbps data. This makes your battery life crap.
To play a video on Zune or iPod effectively, you're going to have to convert it to MPEG-4, WMV9 or H.264. And when you convert and recompress, you're losing some quality. The amount of quality lost is minor, but then so is the quality lost when converting from 720x480 to 640x480.
You obviously have to convert most of your video because if most people are like me, your video is either on a DVD or in AVI format. What i meant is you dont have to reduce the resolution when you convert files for the new zune now, you only need to convert to a different file format while retaining the same quality standards for standard def video programming.
While this is cool, I think it's a little bit of a stretch to call this "DVD resolution" unless it's playing back at least 2-4mbit/sec. (regardless of codec)
It's DVD FRAME SIZE but not DVD DATA RATE.
@scott johnson
And for the dumbest comment made all day, the award goes to you! woo hoo!
2 mbps is not that hard to do through USB 2.0 if it was it would take forever to sync one album
At no time time did I infer that it wasn't possible, and I am well aware of the bandwidth available over USB.
also CORRECTION:
That should read Mbps not mbits.
Also, DVD's MPEG-2 encodes are 4 to 8Mbps of bandwidth; hence good encoded movies (with extras on second disc) taking 9GB storage space for a couple of hours of 480i/576i movie.
Why does it have to be playing back at that data rate? Mpeg-2 is a pretty verbose encoding, relative to modern video encoding standards (say WMV 9, H.264, etc). You can push out video encoded of the same resolution and same frames per second with a considerably more efficient encoding that consumed far few Mbps. Those encoding schemes actually require more horsepower to decode (the tradeoff in compression comes in processing requirements) so the fact that the Zune (and iPod) use a much smaller footprint encoding by default means they actually are *more* capable devices rather than less.
It is DVD resolution if it supports a given framerate at a given screen resolution. The relative verbosity of the video encoding is of absolutely no importance, unless you *actually* consider it a negative point that less disk space is used to achieve the SAME results. Personally, I like that I could use something a little more modern than MPEG-2 (it had been out for a time when DVD adopted it, and that happened more than a decade ago) and store more videos of the same quality on my device.
Great...so the new Zune can ouput direct DVD-quality streams. Why only 80GB? The iPod Classic has a 160GB player...why doesn't the Zune?
Because 160 gb is not needed. 80 gbs with the right features is awesome enough. 160 gb iPod can't wirelessly sync or send songs to another iPod can it?
Who says 160GB is not needed? My music collection is already close to 80GB. Add a few DVD Rips and I'm well over the 80GB capacity.
I don't see the big deal...if the iPod Classic can offer a 160GB unit, why can't Zune?
I agree totaly with you, I realy need a 160gb Zune, I just do not know what to do, I love the zune interface (the big cover art viewing), and I hate cover flow (it works real bad with soundtracks and compilations). I need to replace my Ipod 60gb Color.
With 80gb I can't do nothing. So I'll need to wait a hole year? Or just buy a 160gb Ipod? I just love the zune interface.
Besides the fact that the market for a 160 gb player isnt large enough for mircosoft to sweat not having a Zune 160, they clearly arent as capable as apple is when it comes to slimming down their devices. A 160 gb Zune based on how large the Zune 80 is would frankly be too thick
Thats the stupidest thing i have ever heard. All they would do is make the back of the case a little thicker, and toss in a 160gig. They chose not to so they can have a simple product lineup. The 160 gig version would sell, but not nearly as many as the 80, and that is evident with the new iPods.
Microsoft is perfectly capable of making it larger, its just that they dont want to make another Zune. Who knows why. But dont think apple has some magic pixie dust and vials that give them the capability to make their devices a tad thicker to fit in a bigger hard drive. Its choice, and a good one by apple because i could use a 160gig zune. I guess ill stick with teh 80 gig zune, because i wouldnt be caught dead with an iPod.
Haha, wow, youre kind of an idiot. Of course microsoft could just make the Zune 80 thicker and shove a bigger hard drive in there but heres the thing, it turns out the average consumer doesnt like their mp3 player to look obese. Apple is good at making THIN products, i think that's made painfully obvious by the fact that the 160 gb ipod classic is only .2 inches thicker than the 80 gb Zune. Making a 160 gb Zune would be so thick it would be ugly.
Im not saying that's the main reason microsoft didnt make one, my guess is theyre more worried about establishing some kind of noticible presence in this market before they continue to diversify their offerings.
Microsoft is also very aware that while hard drive based players are a very important component of the mp3 player market, smaller flash players are the highest sellers and largest money makers.
It's my experience that the thinness of the iPod comes at the expense of shock cushioning. The primary reason the original zune was so thick was because it had farily robust cushioning; at the time you could fit an 80 or 120 gig drive into the zune (which used 2 platters vs. the 30 gig single platter. Now 80 gigs is down to a single platter) if you took the cushioning out, which was what Apple had done to make their devices so thin (it isn't completely gone, but it is more minimal than the rubber cushioning in my toshiba laptop, which itself is pretty minimal). The result is that anyone who used a HDD based iPod while being fairly active had a higher chance of disc failure (it doesn't mean it is a guarantee, but odds are higher). My first 4th gen iPod was warranteed with two drive failures, largely I hypothesize because of this, though I will give Apple credit, they waranteed with very little fuss.
Apple doesn't magically increase platter density so that they can use thinner drives. The harddrive size is something they are forced to engineer around. Likewise, while there is some variation on the thickness of LCDs in this category, as well as chip and board sizes, none of those is going to shave off a huge amount of size. You can play around with the battery size a bit, but not too much if you want to keep capacity up, so the only place physically you can get much variation is the physical enclosure and casing. You essentially have a trade off between the thinness and physical resiliance of the device. If you google both the iPod and the orignal zune for take apart pictures, you can really see the difference in how much shock protection was used.
are you kidding me! writing off a media player based on thickness is ridiculous! especially when your talking about tenths of an inch. id rather have a far superior product thats a mind boggling .16 inch thicker than an out dated one that has a few insignificant millimeters shaved off. are you really going to cry over .16 inch?
when is the new firmware coming out?
As long as they battey life is good, the Zune 80 blows the iPod Classic out of the water. The larger screen, wireless synch and DVD quality out makes the difference. Lets just cross ou fingers and hope battery life is up to par.
Hmmm I still think the PSP being able to play games is a better deal.
screw the psp, my PC has 160 gb of storage and a 24" screen! oh yeah, this is referrig to portable media players. sure, my pc sucks at that, but so does your psp. for the same price, you get a larger device with only 2 gb of storage. Thats pathetic for a dedicated pmp.
better resolution more features and location free tv streaming, yeah the PSP is a much better option.
@steve
Larger price than what? The PSP is under $200.
I have a PSP and love it I have a Zune and love it but I dont think i can strap my psp to my shoulder at the gym :)
Questions about the new Zune:
Does it play unprotected AAC files?
Can it play music videos purchased from iTunes?
I've never been happy with Apple's larger mp3 players. I only buy the mini and nano. I think the new Zune is what I've been waiting for in a hard-drive based player.
Does it play unprotected AAC files?
YES
Can it play music videos purchased from iTunes?
NO. Unless you find a way to strip the DRM, it will only play through your iPod and iTunes software.
I think that Microsoft keeps taking steps in the right direction. However, I find that wi-fi syncing is way overrated as the Zune lasts for 5 hours with heavy wi-fi use. That means that you will have to charge your Zune after doing any large amounts of syncing. You might as well just plug it into the computer and get faster syncing rates while charging the battery at the same time. I do think that it offers some value over the 80GB iPod classic. However, I still feel that the Zune isn't using its wi-fi to full potential. Sure, wireless syncing and sharing is nice and all but wi-fi would be better put to use if it could stream songs to supported devices (such as the case with iTunes and the Apple Airport Express). On top of that, the screen uses too small of a resolution. 320X240 is fine on the iPod's screen but the Zune's screen is almost 1" bigger. Things just look a little blurry on my Zune while they look crystal clear on my iPod classic.
I do think that Microsoft needs to release a higher capacity Zune in order to really compete with what is out there. I don't think anybody saw the 160GB iPod classic coming for such a good price and I think it is not time for Microsoft to release their 160GB player for the same price. I would much rather have a Zune with wi-fi streaming, a 160GB hard drive, 40 hour audio battery life, 7-8 hours of video playback, and a 3.2" screen using a resolution higher than 320X240. That would be my ideal music playback device. My 160GB iPod classic is almost that ideal device except that it lacks wi-fi (which would be nice to work with my Airport Express) and the screen is a tad small for video playback.