Normally when we see somebody filing a lawsuit with interface-related patents in question, we're talking about
some vague thing filed a couple months after that product went into production and with little relation to the real-life technology under fire. No such luck for Nintendo this time around: Patrick Goschy, an ex-Midway employee, has a YouTube video of himself demonstrating something astoundingly similar to a Wiimote / Nunchuck... eight years ago. His demo shows his hacked-together controllers providing a surprisingly-responsive interface for a bit of Ready 2 Rumble Boxing on the Dreamcast. Goschy, who appeared on Fox News in Chicago last night, says that he has had no formal involvement with the Wii, but holds the related patents
and is taking Nintendo to court over its implementation. Rumor has it that Nintendo might have to sacrifice as much as 47 seconds of retail profits were the company to lose in court. Video is after the break, brace yourself for a complete lack of pants.
[Thanks, Boyo]
Update: Patrick's wife Sheri contacted us to set the story straight and says that Patrick isn't suing Nintendo (yet). She also gave us the link to
the news story, which provides some further info and a Nintendo statement which denies any Goschy involvement in the Wii's technology.
posted Jan 14th 2008 12:10PM
;)
Oh my god...that mullet is priceless.
I'm in stitches.
Buisness up front, party in the back.
His look screams Jacksonville, FL sometime in the 90's.
The "mullets" have it...
$10 says he still hasn't gotten a haircut since then.
That's a pony tail.
So if you develop something in a vacuum, and all of a sudden it becomes part of a very popular (not profitable mind you) system, where does that leave you? Would now have to spend precious resources on searching through patents offices in every country you were going to be introducing your product?
What a minefield for any company doing business in the US, and it's patent system. Just amazing we don't have the courts clogged with patent lawsuits covering everything that has ever been made. I imagine that only electronics, manufacturing related items, and pharmaceuticals have the type of people writing patent law to make sure they make money from someone else (they seem to be the greediest). Oh wait, I forgot about one company, MONSANTO, for suing farmers, for illegally growing it's Genetically Modified crop.
And MONSANTO won, here's one case for you to think about: http://www.bnd.com/business/story/221785.html
Did the individual incubate the idea and try to spend money on marketing? oh wait it's owned by the company, sorry doesn't belong to you. We paid you to try and come up with something awesome, and the president would look at it and say "we're supposed to be making games, who authorized this? you're fired" and then Konami does the MoCap Boxing the following year, naturally evolving their arcade games from Rescue 911 and something I can't spell :]
I wish I had a video camera when I was a kid to record all the crazy shit we did with ATARI controllers! now THAT was prior art!
Why does the guy in the VIDEO say to contact Mark Myers @ Midway Games? I know he was like an Executive Producer of some big titles. What was he doing at that time? only corporate filings can reveal that.
Does this become the target of C'r'opper NON Inn'er'ovations Gr'ubs'oup claims? Because this video came after their patent filing, notice how they both use micro-controllers, accelerometers, etc, etc. Or they don't care because MIDWAY didn't wander into this area of the industry?
How could the patent office have issued a patent on something so clearly in violation (sic) on the OTHER patent?
Do they get to sue each other instead? and then whoever wins gets to go after SONY + NINTENDO?
EVERY R&D department is now going to require closed circuit 24 hour recording systems in every room, on every table, and portable cameras, because if you don't file, you have to document, and if you don't document you have no proof.
dude just hit the lottery.
It's seriously annoying how every big thing in technology today seems to have some 'lottery winner' who apparently had a patent for some part of it. Either develop your products completely and release them, or tough it up and deal with the fact that someone else has better business practices than you do.
To TheLostSoul: The problem with your idea is that if you adopted it, then there would never be any incentive for any individual to develop anything new. You are looking at this like you were just a corporate slave. Of course some guy, all by himself, can't come up with the funds and support to develop, and market his own game console. He can, however, come up with a neat idea for a new sort of controller. The way our system is supposed to work, is that someone like that documents and develops the concept into a prototype, patents it, and then tries to get larger companies to license it for use in their products. Problem is, today's society and media are so slavishly devoted to the worship of the corporation that when the company refuses to license the technology, and instead just copies it, the guy who patented it is labeled a "patent troll," and people like you claim he shouldn't get anything for his trouble, because corporations are the only ones allowed to make money through innovation.
Lloyd: Spot on
TheLostSoul: Epic phail!
From the comments on the original article, here is his actual patent:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=w4EOAAAAEBAJ&dq=6545661
Seems like he has a good case, but IANAL, so I dunno.
Patrick Goschy is his name
http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=5478742&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1
Here is the Fox "News" Chicago (Home City Of Midway Games) Report and interview with Goschy.
hmmm...isn't his only a 2 axis vs a 3 axis for the wiimote? and doesn't the wiimote use an infrared system, not movement sensors?
what patent is he defending? The wiimote is closer to the power glove then this thing is to the wiimote.
the wiimote uses infared for the pointing the cursor. the accelerometers are for movement sensing
No - the wiimote includes both an IR camera and 3-axis accelerometer. Boxing uses exclusively the accelerometer.
I'm guessing he's more interested in the similarity to the nunchuck. His design seems to have a lot more in common with that than with the Wiimote. I'm not sure if it has enough in common to claim patent infringement, though.
Also if you watch the video through to the end he mentions they are working on a 3-axis version that is wireless...
So from that you can infer that they probably had patents on both the 2-axis wired and 3-axis wireless.
@paul: "Also if you watch the video through to the end he mentions they are working on a 3-axis version that is wireless..."
Not really, he says "_If_ we had a 3-axis version..." @ 2:51. He _does_ say "We are currently working on a wireless version, and a version that uses a faster microcontroller" @ 2:31.
And folks, those aren't boxer shorts - they're short pants. You can see the pocket line on his left.
What's sad is that the Ready 2 Rumble graphics are on par, if not better, than Wii Boxing. Evidence that I didn't buy a Wii for it's amazing graphics performance.
Have you even seen Metroid Prime or Mario Galaxy? Wii Boxing is not, nor was intended to be a showcase for the Wii's graphics abilities. I'm not saying the Wii is as good as the 360 or PS3, but it still looks really nice with a game that takes advantage of what it can do. Wii Boxing is not that game.
And just in case, because some people still don't realize this - games like Zelda look SO MUCH BETTER on an HDTV or EDTV using component cables and 480p instead. It's like night and day, literally. My component cables were on backorder so for the first few weeks I had my Wii I was using the standard AV cables and regular standard def. When I got the component cables and set up the Wii to use 480p, and fired up Zelda - I very literally thought it was a different game for a few seconds. Vast improvement.
I just think some people who complain about the Wii's graphics aren't using it in 480. Like I said it's still not as good as the 360 or PS3 - but that being said, there is a world of difference between standard def with av cables, and 480p with component cables.
None of the games in "Wii Sports" were meant to be groundbreaking with respect to graphics. They were meant to be a quick and fun way to get you learn to use the Wiimote/nunchuck.
Personally, I think that the "Need for Speed" games are very well done for the Wii. I was quite surprised how fluid and detailed the graphics are in "NFS: Carbon", and from what I hear the newer NFS (I forget the full name) has phenomenal graphics. "Super Mario Galaxy" and "Metroid 3" are excellent as well.
The problem is that you can't compare the Wii with other consoles. It was never designed to focus around graphics, whereas that was the core premise behind the 360 and PS3. The Wii was and is all about gameplay. As so many games from the Commodore 64 and 256-color VGA era proved, you don't need great graphics to have great gameplay, but great graphics usually don't mean anything without great gameplay.
Zak:
480p? WOW, that's pretty new, up to the times, and high-def.
*looks at my 1080p NCAA College Football 08*
*Looks at 1080p NCAA College Football 2008*
Fuck. I'm playing a college football video game.
Worst. Lawsuit. Ever.
I don't really mind the lawsuit (they'll probably end up settling, if the suit has any merit), I just wanted to make a Comic Book Guy reference in response to that picture.
Worst. Post. Evar.
Hindsight being what it is...I'd bet he wishes he wore pants before making that vid.
I shudder to think what will happen should Nintendo decide to counter sue the pants off him.
@MEAT!
Midway did, hence being a former employee and completely devoid of pants.
@Student Driver: I believe in the video he is a current midway empoyee at that point because he mentions contacting him at midway.
Come on guys... really, that's all you have? Comments about pants?
For the record, those are flannel shorts. I used to own tons of those in the late 90's. They were very popular in the mid 90's. A friend of mine still wears his today. (Yes, my friend needs a new wardrobe.)
They are not boxers!
What have you got against pants?? I happen to like pants! How _dare_ you insult the pants! Nothing is more important! NOTHING! YOU HEAR ME?
this looks like a job for Emergency Pants!
cookie for the one who guesses the reference.
I hope he gets at least a couple million dollars if he is legit. then he can start his out company dedicated to making wii games
...why doest this guys only appear when the company is making loads of money with the product??
if Wii had been like Gamecube or Dreamcast i bet he wouldn't be suing Nintendo...
well...another guy trying to grab some easy money......
gonna use my vacation time to make all sorts of controllers i can imagine and maybe sometime soon i can squeeze some money like him!!..........
@oinquer
While I thought the same thing, why the guy did not press the issue when the WII first came out. I thought for a little more, and then figured maybe he was consulting lawyers and such, and attempted to get in contact with Nintendo, prior to pursuing the lawsuit.
I could be wrong though.
Oinquer:
I imagine he appears when somebody's making money off his product because, you know, it'd be pretty pointless to sue them otherwise.
This is the reason why the patent system exists, folks. It's to protect people who otherwise have little money but do have good ideas. Otherwise, nobody who doesn't work for a major corporation would ever be able to create something and make a product out of it. (This is also the reason why patents expire; you have a set number of years to put your idea into action, and then it's up for grabs.)
Say what you want about patents, this is how the system is designed to be used. You have an idea, it's yours to run with for a limited amount of time. If somebody else takes it from you in that period, then you're entitled to royalties and damages. That way original ideas are protected and the little guy doesn't get screwed.
Sounds like he did actually file patents too, so he's got more than just the videos to rely on from a legal standpoint.
I doubt he'll manage it, technology behind the ideas might be slightly different, in which case no doubt Nintendo can body swerve this, the idea and theory behind is has been around for a long time.
Video after the break? I have not made visual contact with said video.
Good for him.
Is that Jeff "Comic Book Guy" Albertson from The Simpsons?
i am saddened by the fact that you know his full name.
Cheer up riggs; I had to Google his full name.
He looks more like an original Klingon to me.
It was only mentioned once, in a somewhat recent episode. I was a little disappointed when they revealed his name. I like the fact that they had no reason to refer to him by name for the past 15 or whatever years, that was hilarity in itself.
It was only mentioned once, in a somewhat recent episode. I was a little disappointed when they revealed his name. I like the fact that they had no reason to refer to him by name for the past 15 or whatever years, that was hilarity in itself.
What the hell, Blogsmith? I posted once...
Do you know the meaning of prior art? I don't think you are using the term correctly.
Prior art would be used to defeat the patent and would have to predate the filing of the patent.
In your article you seem to imply that the prior art will help the patent litigation. Also, the patent is atleast 12 years old so 8 year old 'prior art' is not prior art.
The shorts he's wearing is proof that this was done 8 years ago.
The Japanese have always copied stuff. You know the old saying, great artists steal. And MS STOLE the Mac OS desktop. (I know, I know...other desktops were before that, too)
yes and the Apple Desktop was stolen directly from the Xerox Parc. The Apple Lisa was an almost exact copy of the Xerox Star except that it was slightly less advanced. Xerox even sued Apple in the late 80's but the courts determined that Xerox waited around to long and the suit was thrown out for being too late. Apple is hardly an innovative company either.
Either way this isn't an article about MS or Apple this about Nintendo. I highly doubt taht Nintendo stole this patent but it is possible they violated his patent. Most likely this case will be settled if there si any veracity to his claims and if the patent holder is reasonable.
congratuliations, you just made a total fool of yourself by bringing apple up even though this has nothing to do with it....dumbass
480 isn't bad, but for a next gen system, it should have at least 720, if not 1080.
It has happened that technology has been developed independently in different parts of the world. Prior art limits individual or companies from taking out patents on the technology developed.
I don't think so, John. As I stated in my post I AM WELL AWARE of the naysayers' arguments about PARC. (And I can spell AND type congratulations, too. Sorry you must have made a complete fool of yourself for not buying a computer with spell check. ZING!)
;)
No, sorry FThorn,
You still look kind of foolish. I think that in your fervor, you missed the whole "this article has nothing to do with Apple and MS" part.
dude just got freaking lucky
okay, if i were on the jury, i'd find against him simply because the act of his lawsuit would have forced me to watch a video of a comic-book-lookin guy without pants.
god bless the american judicial system!
The real problem is going to come when he figures out that he sold his invention to Midway for 1 dollar. Everyone at that time had to sign over thier rights tothier ideas. This is most importantly because this was developed while on company time. I think tha Sumner Redstone is going to be the one to profit from this, NOT PAT.
Oh no, not 47 seconds of retail profits? ;)
@john
I was replying to the person above me in retrospect your reply was better.
He described his method to the axis, so shouldn't he be going after Sony's Six-axis controlling, and buttons being activated based on the motion. Nintendo uses infrared and doesn't describe their mechanism to axis'.
Dude taped this on 6-28-00. As in 7.5ish years ago of prior art. I hope he - not Midway - gets a little something for his patented work.
No pants = creativity.
I'm going to try and sell my boss on that one.
here is the video guys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCyJZpKtdzk&eurl=http://gonintendo.com/?p=33275
Boxing in boxers.
Here's an idea: The patent and trademark office is supposed to cross reference all patents to make sure they do not infringe on any others. That is kind-of their whole purpose. Why not leave them responsible up front and quit all of these frivolous law suits? If they did their job there would be nothing to fight about, products would simply have to comply before they were ever built. There is no way someone outside that office could possibly do a better/more efficient patent search to check for their own compliance (i.e. some bonehead who hacked his 80’s console). These patent law suits piss me off.
Maybe these lawsuits frustrate you because you do not understand what's going on.
If Nintendo had tried to patent the technology in the controller, then the USPTO would do a search for prior art and would hopefully uncover this patent and use it reject Nintendo's patent application. It is not the USPTO's job to look for infringement in everything made/used/sold/imported into the US.
It is every company's responsibility to make sure they are not infringing on another person's patent. Why? Because they understand their own technology better than anyone else and therefore are in the best position to determine if they are infringing or not and seek licenses if necessary.
And there is a way, because companies do this all the time.
So Nintendo has no patents on the Wii's controllers? I just assumed that they would patent the one piece of technology that was unique to their system. I mean, if they are knowingly/willfully infringing on patents then screw 'em, but it seems there are too many of these types of law suits going around. Something isn't right.
Maybe not today, maybe not tommorrow, but some day Nintendo is going to have to pay somebody off.
"Hello Nintendo? You're fuX0red!"
http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=5478742&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1
Again The Fox "news" interview out of Chicago.
Is he wearing underwear?
Serious, I don't want to see fat guys in a t-shirt and underwear playing videos games.
Avoid looking in any mirrors then ;)
Actually - there was a compnay in 1997/1998 that developed this technology. It was called reality fusion and they made games that were controlled by a camera. They did a bundling deal with intel and logitech who added their software to cameras they sold. Sadly the company is no longer working on this. I was one of the forst 3 people to work there back in the late 90's
So there is your prior art.
"Games controlled by a camera", did you see a camera in the video?
It's a different technology.
Mr. Goschy has 2 patents filed in his name:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=IrsHAAAAEBAJ&dq=ininventor:Patrick+ininventor:Goschy&as_drrb_ap=q&as_minm_ap=1&as_miny_ap=2008&as_maxm_ap=1&as_maxy_ap=2008&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=1&as_miny_is=2008&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=2008
http://www.google.com/patents?id=w4EOAAAAEBAJ&dq=ininventor:Patrick+ininventor:Goschy&as_drrb_ap=q&as_minm_ap=1&as_miny_ap=2008&as_maxm_ap=1&as_maxy_ap=2008&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=1&as_miny_is=2008&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=2008
Both patents belong to "Midway Amusment Games, LLC", so chances are Mr. Gochy does not even have standing to sue.
Further, the patent describing the controllers shown in the video, claims a light sensor on the controller which would receive and interpret pixels on the "video display" (claim 1). Nintendo's wiimote may fall outside of this claim as it uses IR sensors to interpret the signals from the sensor bar, and not pixels from the video display.
huh? I think that the patent that relates to what's in the video is the second one that you give and that one has pretty direct implications regarding the "motion sensing using accelerometers" functionality of the Wii controller. Good spot on the patent ownership, tho.
There's no chance he'll get anything - not only did he develop this on Midway time - but he signed paperwork so he can't even touch Midway; who technically owns the invention and patents. Sure maybe it seems shitty, but it's worked that way for a long time now.
Tip: if you're eventing something look into properly protecting it and don't let your boss handle it all for you.
He let this one slip through his fingers a long time a go, sucks.
And also; this doesn't exactly work like the wii does; it's like comparing a bicycle to a motorcycle; topical similarities but fundamentally different.
Someone stole his pants! Urm.. I mean, patent.
OOOOkkkkkk, and this couldn't be fake, WHY??????????!?!?!?!?!?!?
He states that he wants credit for his invention. OK give him credit for what he did. Great job Pat!!!Now get on with life! He isn't going to see a freekin nickle. Niel Nicastro had him locked up then and he still is locked up leagaly. He has NO rights to anything that he did while in the employment of Midway Games. He signed away his rights. Shame on him, shame on all of us back then. Stop sniveling and get over yourself. I guess nothing has changed has it?
I hope he gets paid.
Better yet I hope Sony or Microsoft buys the patents and goes up against Nintendo themselves.
Anyone realize in the fox vid the put the wii disc in backwards? Bout 3/4 way through
I like the comments made in previous posts about invention being worthy of a patent but evolution not being...I see both a motion sensing controller in combination with an accelerometer as evolution to a remote control (wired or otherwise) since this is logical progression.
I'm gonna sue Nintendo because I once used my fists in a fight. I don't have it on video but if I track down that junior school fiend we could share the profits.
So let me get this right.... Steven Seagal invented the wiimote?