Second Galileo GPS satellite goes into orbit

Finally, the EU's Giove-B GPS satellite was shot into space by the Baikonur cosmodrome in Kazakhstan. Strapped atop a Soyuz-FG rocket, the Giove-B reached orbit at 8:01am this morning, and is the second satellite launched for the nascent next-generation European Galileo satellite navigation system. This particular model is kitted out with dual redundant rubidium atomic clocks that the ESA says are "the most accurate in space". The next bird -- just three of thirty -- is slated to go up in 2010 with a full-system launch around 2013. Until then, it looks like they'll be stuck using the US's crappy, less-sensitive GPS network (boo hoo).

[Via Physorg]

[rederikus @ Apr 27th 2008 3:25PM]

The US GPS system is free for all to use. Galileo will not be free so no one will ever use it.

[Sasha S. @ Apr 27th 2008 3:35PM]

Galileo will have free as well as paid services. More info can (as always) be found in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_positioning_system#Services)

Personally I am happy that Galileo will be put in service as we need better accuracy as well as the system which is not under military control. Although I am sure US Military already has looked into jamming or otherwise disabling Galileo above certain territories as certain times.

Apparently GPS and Galileo will play along nicely and we all will have more reliable GPS service as well as a nice add on: "...Galileo satellites will be able to detect and report signals from Cospas-Sarsat search-and-rescue beacons in the 406.0–406.1 MHz band, which makes them a part of the Global Maritime Distress Safety System."

[Ian @ Apr 27th 2008 3:54PM]

Err.. You do realise that Eurpopean military/political leaders will be able to swtich off the G system as well!

[Andrew @ Apr 27th 2008 4:25PM]

You can be sure European governments and military *will* use it.

And I will gladly pay for access because I trust *my* government, but not so much the US...

[Argot @ Apr 27th 2008 4:27PM]

@Ian:You do realize the difference between having a system under civilan control versus one controlled by the military, right?

[Ian @ Apr 27th 2008 4:40PM]

Yeah, 'cause I can't count the number of times the US military has shut off civilian acess to GPS... oh, wait.

[Dolemite @ Apr 27th 2008 4:54PM]

Andrew, yes you can't trust the US "government" because you know they are the boogeyman! booga wooga!

In any case, if you really trust your own government, good for you! But do keep in mind that Norway already has a population of less than five million, and with a fertility rate of 1.78, it means that there are less Norwegians today than there were yesterday, and there will be even less tomorrow. So what will you do when there is no one left to run a government, then who are you going to trust? Or perhaps a better question should be if you will still trust your government when it looks like the Pakistani government? Because it is certainly headed that way, but that is one direction in which a GPS, whether European or American, will not be able to help you.

[Andrew @ Apr 27th 2008 5:47PM]

Easy there, Dolemite. I trust my government to work for it's citizens - but I don't trust a foreign one. Is that so hard to understand? To each his own.

As for my country's low birthrates; it hardly matters. Each year thousands of Europeans move to my country. We offer high wages and loads of unfilled positions, not to mention free healthcare and schools. They are not born here but they end up being every bit as good Norwegians as the rest of us. Just last year (2007) over 40.000 people moved here and settled. That more than makes up for the difference.

And even if we did end up less than one million people so what? We have 700 million European neighbors. Or maybe I should hire some Americans to clean my house? I am sure we can arrange for guest worker status, hehe.

[Argot @ Apr 27th 2008 6:10PM]

@Ian. No, the U.S army would neeeeever do something that could put non-U.S citizens in danger, right?

[LJKelley @ Apr 27th 2008 6:16PM]

As a Norwegian, I will proudly say that I do not trust the Norwegian Government. In fact they have broken their promises to me and other Norwegians several times and I fear more about the results of Politically Correct talk and ignorant actions. It is amazing how Pakistanis can immigrate in mass while because I earned about 10000 NOK less than I should I couldn't allow my American BF to immigrate to the US whom I met while going to school there.

I'd rather support a country that is a bit over zeolous in their protections of their citizens than a country that blindly thinks it owes something to the rest of the world even to the expense of its own citizens.

However, back on subject I think better more targeted GPS is better for us all. Also to the original poster, yes there are features you can pay for but general service is free and that includes more accurate positioning.

[Dolemite @ Apr 27th 2008 7:07PM]

Andrew, you have to be kidding me, right? 700 million Europeans? My friend, the survival of your culture is not something you can outsource to someone else. Even if you had, Europe is by far the worst choice possible, considering that they themselves rely on immigrant populations to keep their pension funds going.

How can you rely on Europe when the populations of Germany, Italy, Spain, Russia, Greece, and even France and others are all shrinking? The Norwegian population is literally dying out, and yet that it is in a better situation than the rest of Europe. So you sure as hell should not expect the Europeans to prop up your population.

As for the quality of the immigrants, you said "They are not born here but they end up being every bit as good Norwegians as the rest of us." Well, if only the world were as full of roses and teddy bears as you think it is. If the immigrants to Europe were as good as citizens then Europe would not be quickly becoming the mecca of honour killing outside of Saudi Barbaria and Pakistan. In fact, rape, especially gang rape, by immigrants would not be becoming as large a problem as it getting, including in Norway. In fact, if it were as you say it is, then Theo van Gogh would still be alive. Remember Theo van Gogh?

I suppose that I am willing to concede to you that it is not necessarily the immigrant population that is the problem, as the vast majority of immigrants tend to be extremely hard workers, and generally quite dedicated to their new countries. The problem however, is their progeny. Europe has the honour of making sure that the second and third generation immigrants to Europe are more radicalised then their parents and grandparents. The rioting Algerians in France, the exploding Pakistanis in Britain, and the honour-killing happy Turks in Germany are proof of that.

Whether you believe me or not, it does not matter, as this is not about me. But perhaps you will believe one of those Norwegian immigrants you are swooning over: Mullah Krekar

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1247400.ece
Krekar claims Islam will win - Aftenposten.no

Norway 1.78
Denmark 1.74
Finland 1.73
Sweden 1.67
Netherlands 1.66
United Kingdom 1.66
Belgium 1.65
Germany 1.41
Russia 1.40

[Jake @ Apr 27th 2008 8:09PM]

@Argot:

Um, you realize that in the US that the military is under civilian control, right?

[EvilEuropean @ Apr 28th 2008 4:56AM]

@Dolomite

I find it interesting that Americans are so interested in demographic trends in the EU. As a nation of immigrants, I guess that is understandable. However, why do you hang onto discredited right-wing nonsense from Mark Steyn to attack a new navigation system being constructed?
The chance of 'EUarabia' is very remote. The term was created as a way to discredit what free and democratic people thought of the illigeal invasion of Iraq.

As for the figures, the reality is that demographic change happens all the time. Birth rates are as much a factor of economic concerns as anything. In which case the birth rate in the US will be falling soon as your economy tanks. But its okay. While the Islamification of Europe has been show to be just right-wing rubbish, the Mexicfication of the US is a very real trend! I for one look forward to it. The latin types are far less uptight!

[Geir E @ Apr 28th 2008 6:15AM]

I am also a Norwegian, and I trust the Norwegian government a bit more than the US one. Not because our is so good but at least our government is mostly driven by our elected statesmen and not only by our larger cooperations.

But I will not pay for GPS service when the US system is free. I am not that found in paying for something i legally can have free.

[Henrik @ Apr 28th 2008 8:46AM]

Sasha S.: The American Government are not allowed to do that. USA isn't like the rulers of the world, and they do diffidently do not have control over a European GPS spinoff.

Anyway, sounds great, finally Galileo seems to come somewhere.

[M @ Apr 28th 2008 1:19PM]

Getting back to the origional point...

A lot of people will be using the Galileo system. The US system is fine for you're $200 Sat-Nav systems but try landing a plane using it. Put simply you can't - it's simply not accurate enough.
The second point is that airlines, and other safety critical applications will not accept a system which is under the millitary control of a forign government. In the case of some kind of millitary emergency in the US (eg N.Korea leting off a few missles) that US gps system will be encrypted in the blink of an eye. A hugly unlikey situation but since it is still a posibility they can't take that risk.

[maty @ Apr 27th 2008 3:30PM]

Finally, something for Europe to be proud of. Not like that appauling European "national anthem" they have going on... /cringe.

[eurobloke @ Apr 27th 2008 4:19PM]

What is wrong with Ode to Joy?

Can you hear the words...
"Est Europa nunc unita
et unita maneat;
una in diversitate
pacem mundi augeat."

(to those who don't understand Latin,
Europe is united now
United it may remain;
Our unity in diversity
May contribute to world peace.)

[Seth @ Apr 27th 2008 4:31PM]

Europe has many things to be proud of. Such as, um, um, oh! Swedish Meatballs! Those things are quite tasty.

[Argot @ Apr 27th 2008 6:15PM]

@Seth: Yeah, and that whole western civilization thing. But as a Swede I like meatballs.

[MARSHAK @ Apr 28th 2008 8:27AM]

wow. thats a pretty good anthem. I'm Canadian and mine isnt bad (can be sung in french or english) but its too damn long.

[gabe @ Apr 27th 2008 3:31PM]

there must be a lot of traffic up on space with all these satellites.

[Conor @ Apr 27th 2008 3:35PM]

http://www.theglobaleducationproject.org/earth/images/final-images/g--space-debris.gif

[andres @ Apr 27th 2008 7:18PM]

it seems like you ran out of letters mark, have some of mine
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz

[Jordan @ Apr 28th 2008 1:34AM]

Jesus, we humans really know how to not only trash the earth, the atmosphere, but also space.

[NHAnimator @ Apr 27th 2008 3:42PM]

Ah. My sister works in Baikonur stroking the rockets to make them go up. She is good worker. And she is good kisser. The GPS'es will make glorious return of Kazakstan to Space Race. Thank you and bon voyages.

(my apologies in advance)

[daniel @ Apr 27th 2008 3:58PM]

very nice! i like! i have looked forward to this comment, long time!

[Slick @ Apr 27th 2008 4:01PM]

Classic

[matt @ Apr 27th 2008 4:02PM]

you kiss your sister?

[Richard Lai @ Apr 27th 2008 4:17PM]

I see what you did there...

[John @ Apr 27th 2008 3:51PM]

"Until then, it looks like they'll be stuck using the US's crappy less-sensitive GPS network"

Must every post on engadget be filled with anti-American vitriol ???

I will point out some facts:

1. GPS is the only fully functional Global Navigation Satellite System
2. It cost the US aproximatly $750 million a year to maintain.
3. It's free to any user.

[tony @ Apr 27th 2008 4:01PM]

Dude... it's called sarcasm.

[matt @ Apr 27th 2008 4:02PM]

not to mention, the ESA is more than 20 years behind america. hey, when was the last time the ESA or russia put a man on the moon? oh right, never.

[Bazza @ Apr 27th 2008 4:03PM]

Well then the US will be happy that Europe will take some of that burden off their hands. Dont ya think? Europe can now stand on its own feet and thank the US for all those years of service.

So, its all good.

Oh and i think that last line was meant as a light joke, instead of a revolution against the superpower.

[paul-engadget @ Apr 27th 2008 4:16PM]

glonass

[matt @ Apr 27th 2008 4:20PM]

@paul

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS#Current_status

wtf

[Richard Walker @ Apr 27th 2008 4:23PM]

TBH john most of your comments don't really have any relevance to the point your trying to make;

1. GPS is the only fully functional Global Navigation Satellite System
Yes, true, but thats what this post is about, the development of a new GPS system.

2. It cost the US aproximatly $750 million a year to maintain.
No matter how much it cost to maintain, it still can be crappy, just look at the zune... (j/k! before people start!)

3. It's free to any user.
If you read the wikipedia article above then you would know that Galileo will be free for the most part and most users will not need to pay a fee and the service they receive will still be much better than the current US system. It will just cost bit companies who want detail down to the meter that will have to pay for use.

Oh, and bazza, don't know if you've been reading the press recently but the USA is no longer classed as a superpower due to its recent flailing economy, do some research you'll find an article in non-us press soon enough!

[matt @ Apr 27th 2008 4:33PM]

@richard

how many countries have $13 trillion GDPs?

[Kamokazi @ Apr 27th 2008 5:51PM]

@Richard

Superpower is not a definitive classification assigned by the UN or anything like that. While some anti-US people out there would love to throw around explantions as to why they don't feel the US is a superpower anymore, the truth is, the overwhelming majority of people would still consider the US a superpower. Admittedly, there are many predictions that the US will lose its superpower status in the future, but there are more arguments that in this day communication/information overload, globalization, the UN, etc. the whole greatpower/superpower classification is antiquated and does not really apply to the current political scene anyway.

[Wwhat @ Apr 27th 2008 7:38PM]

It's amusing, fighting who has the 'bestest' space capability but meanwhile both the americans AND europeans have to get the russians to launch things in space for them.

Incidentally, the US can't put anybody on the moon either anymore.

[Dolemite @ Apr 27th 2008 4:27PM]

John, if you think this is bad, just the posts written by the other Joshua. Now Joshua Topolsky is the real political MLA of Engadget.

In any case, Europe can launch as may sats as they want. Soon it will all belong to the Turks, Algerians, and the Pakistanis, at least in the case of Germany, France, and England. But I am not convinced that this is necessarily a bad thing.

[Andrew @ Apr 27th 2008 5:52PM]

Yeah? But the GPS system will soon be converted to Spanish only because the Latinos demand it. Viva EEUU! Or maybe you should just merge the two federations, and simply call it the Estados Unidos de Mexico?

P.S. Yes, I know the GPS really doesn't use a human language for it's operations. It just doesn't make sense to attack the UK for having Pakistanis in their population when the US has *everything* under the sun voting for their next President.

[Edwin @ Apr 27th 2008 4:48PM]

@matt : on the moon ? It was a filmset in a desert !!

[sinjinn @ Apr 27th 2008 5:36PM]

i watched some documentary that says the radiation in space would have gone right through the astronauts space suit and through the ship because it wasnt lined with led.

if you think about it , even the person that takes your xray hides behind a led screen so i dont know one way or the other now.

[schmitty338 @ Apr 27th 2008 5:49PM]

led =/ lead

...also...there is absolutely NO question that they went to, and walked upon the moon's surface...if you have a sufficiently powered telescope, you can see the landing site from Earth...

Perhaps even more damning to your thoughts of conspiracy is the fact that they set up mirrors on the moon (which can also be seen from telescopes) that allow researchers around the world to shoot a laser at it, and measure the time it takes to get back, thus allowing us to measure how fast the moon is moving away from Earth...This is done many times per day by various independent researchers and the results have been published in multiple academic papers.

If that explanation is too long for you, this is the short version: "STFU"

[matt @ Apr 27th 2008 5:55PM]

@sinjinn

google apollo radiation

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html#radiation

[sinjinn @ Apr 27th 2008 5:59PM]

thanx. i can put hat theory to rest now

[sinjinn @ Apr 27th 2008 6:00PM]

that*

[jaapV @ Apr 28th 2008 4:18AM]

at schmitty338 ...

Although I do believe that the US went to the moon. I have yet to find a telescope image of the landing site.

It's just too small. There hasn't been a telescope with enough resolution to make out 1 feet squares. But if you know of any, please post any.

There was a fly-bye by Smart-1, (a satelite from ESA) it did make pictures of the landing spot, but with (I think) 200 yard resolution. So no tracks that we can see.

[garbage @ Apr 27th 2008 8:45PM]

Schmitty338, "if you have a sufficiently powered telescope, you can see the landing site from Earth..."

Yeah have YOU got a sufficiently powered telescope? I doubt it. Just cos someone says you can see it with a "sufficiently powered telescope" doesn't mean its true! In real terms none of us can prove this, because we don't have access to such a telescope you f*ggot.

I'm not sayin I don't believe it (a body of experts say its true so I make a judgement on it, right or wrong). But you should say "_apparently_ if you have a sufficiently powered telescope", otherwise you sound like you are speaking with some authority (to dispel the conspiracy-theorists) which you probably don't have. If you have this authority then state it. And while you're at it, show us a photo taken from your telescope of the landing site.