Palm CFO keeps cards, products, anything interesting close to the vest

We're not certain why Palm CFO Andy Brown was being so cagey about the company's next-gen Linux-based platform during a "fireside chat" at a recent JPMorgan tech conference, but his devotion to secrecy is almost as interesting as if he had dished out some details on upcoming devices. Wait, no, it's not. Of course, Palm's new OS is being developed by Jon Rubenstein, former Apple hardware and iPod veep, so maybe the paranoia is contagious -- but Brown probably didn't convince anyone when he openly compared Palm to Apple because both companies make both the hardware and the software. That's a pretty hard head-to-head to be in when you're talking about the Centro running Garnet -- maybe some actual products might help that pill go down easier, you know? Brown did say that we'd been seeing the fruits of all this labor sometime "this summer," but didn't mention what it might actually be -- let's hope it's got more design behind it than that nasty Zeppelin prototype.

[Bjarke @ May 20th 2008 6:35AM]

What is up with that picture? :D

[chickenator @ May 20th 2008 6:45AM]

i won't tell

[Idlemind @ May 20th 2008 9:23AM]

I like to keep my Technology and My Hip Hop seperate - thank you..

[Fusion @ May 20th 2008 6:49AM]

whys fat joe's name in the picture, what dose he do for palm?

[Mog @ May 20th 2008 7:04AM]

Palm and Apple actually are a lot alike, if you think about it. Garnet is basically Palm's Mac OS 9 - a minority of users (including myself) feel that it is more usable than Windows, but it is missing many modern features and looks and feels dated. Tellingly, Palm is switching to a Unix-based solution, just as Apple did.

You could even make the case that the Centro is Palm's iMac G3. Both products provided a much-needed success to (hopefully) hold its parent company afloat until the next-generation operating system was ready. Both products established a "consumer" brand to sit alongside a professional brand (Power Mac and Treo). Both products are even known for coming in a multitude of colors, unusual for products in their respective market segments.

The thing is, I'm not sure if Palm will survive. Palm doesn't have a Steve Jobs. Apple was able to base OS X on NeXTSTEP, but Palm seems intent on building its next OS from the ground up (um, hello, Android?), and time is running out. Many Palm users (including myself) who like Palm OS for its usability are finding the iPhone more usable still, and as the iPhone OS develops into a true smartphone platform (third party apps!) the smartphone space will just get that much more crowded.

So what has Palm done to stay ahead? The Centro has been a success, especially with people who have never considered a Palm device before, largely due to its "non-smartphone" size, price, and feel. So that's good, right? But, at the same time, the Centro is almost identical to the Treo 750 at a third the price. Who but the most spendthrifty corporations are going to pay three times as much for an extra quarter inch of screen?

Luckily, they're updating the Treo, but I'm not sure if it's enough. The Treo 800 seems more competitive with the BlackBerry 8000 series (and I'm being generous at that) than the shiny new BlackBerry 9000. They've launched a thinner, non-touchscreen version of the Treo, the HTC-sourced Treo 500, in Europe, but even that seems unlikely to win any converts from the sleeker BlackBerries. (Continuing our Apple comparison, the Treo 500 would be the, um, Power Mac G4 Cube.)

What I'm trying to say is, Palm needs to do something big. Rehashing the Treo design for several more years is not going to cut it in this age of iPhones and BlackBerry Bolds. The Centro bought them some much-needed time, but it also devalued their higher-end products - the Treos just don't seem price competitive any more, if they ever really did. They don't just need an entirely new OS - they need an entirely new phone platform, and I'm not sure if they can deliver that in time.

The odd thing is, for *years* the Palm faithful have been begging for something Palm practically already makes: a Palm TX, only with a built-in phone. The TX is thinner than any US-market Treo (not sure about the Treo 500), it's made out of metal, and it replaces the keyboard with a larger screen. Throw a prettier home screen on there, and it's more of an iPhone competitor than any other "iPhone killer" released to date. It even has Wi-Fi, which the Treos are just now getting, and it makes the Treo and Centro feel like the cheap, plastic, bloated phones they are. Why Palm did not have something like that for sale *years* ago (or at least since the iPhone was announced) is beyond me. It might be more profitable in the short term to sell ancient hardware at premium prices, but that does not a valid long term strategy make.

[TareX @ May 20th 2008 8:03AM]

V. TRUE.

With the current available hardware, if Palm managed to put their new "wonder, iphone-ish" OS on a Palm TX equipped with a slide-out vertical keypad, they would be making many dreams come true.

[Rynth @ May 20th 2008 9:06AM]

longest reply ever..

[t3_slider @ May 21st 2008 1:13AM]

There may be some similarities between Palm and Apple, but I don't think Palm is going to rise up again like Apple did. It's just too late. FAR too late. They're literally using the same OS they've been using since 2004 (a little earlier actually) just outfitted with a few hacks to support the new hardware. I LOVED my T3 (hence the name -- though the slider is probably the worst feature) when it came out, but the sad part is that Palm hasn't released a single device that's better-spec'd than that old T3 I got in 2004. The TX has more storage space (NAND Flash) but less dynamic heap, which actually allowed it to run worse than the T3 (yep, my T3 plays Doom just fine -- Hexen, too, because of its large dynamic heap). There have been rumours of Palm releasing a Linux-based OS for YEARS now, and it's too little too late. Too many people -- especially developers -- have jumped ship to Windows Mobile (and now the iPhone), and I don't think anything Palm does can bring them back. I love Linux -- and I *really* wanted a Linux-based Palm (anyone who loves the iPhone interface needs to realize that it was invented LONG ago and used in many of Palm's devices -- multitouch was just the new addition that lessened taps/keystrokes. That's one thing that Palm OS Garnet [and older] had over Windows Mobile), but it never came. I jumped ship and bought a Sharp Zaurus, which is basically the perfect device for me (640x480 display, touchscreen, excellent keyboard, the easiest device in the world to flash yet impossible to brick, and Linux -- REAL Linux, not hidden from the user) -- I just wish it had WiFi (and maybe was a little thinner).

Anything Palm releases now will just be lost among the many other devices that are equal or better. If they had released it before the iPhone they may have had a chance, but I really doubt they're going to get enough of the iPhone-drones to cross over to a Palm device now.

Sorry Palm -- too slow.

[JozJonlin @ May 21st 2008 9:28PM]

Well said! As one of the Palm faithful, I couldn't agree with you more. I finally purchased a new Palm T|X (waiting for it to be delivered) and I couldn't help but think of the same thing you wrote. Simply add a phone function to the T|X and you have an iPhone killer.

Sure, keep the Centro rolling, but bring out a Treo T|X iPhone killer! Palm is sooooooooooo close!

[Homeboy @ May 20th 2008 7:15AM]

Haha awesome picture. That song is dope.

"come on ma' you know me run new York"

[Richard Lai @ May 20th 2008 7:41AM]

More competition is healthier for the market. Bring it on Palm!

[TareX @ May 20th 2008 7:54AM]

"Palm OS II" versus WM7, Android, and iPhone 2...... wow.

I can't believe they're actually going through this, AND not sharing details about their magnificent new OS that has been in development since forever.

I know that my next phone will be a WM7 upgradable phone, or an Android (when the actual hardware is out and reviewed), but Palm II... I used to be excited about it.... 2 years ago. Now there are many other much more successful OSs with hardwares, that have been tried and proven, AND upgraded, and RE-upgraded, to a very next-gen level, with impressive plans (WM7-8 documentation) that deserve my attention.

RIP.

[Baz @ May 20th 2008 8:15AM]

Sorry Andy Brown, but a little disingenuous. Palm does not make its own hardware and software - and neither are worth bragging about at present.

While build quality (and Support) of Palm hardware has been on a downward slide for years, Palm's OS and software was first spun off to PalmSource and then ACCESS - whose claim to fame so far has been the truly appalling Palm Desktop 6.2.
The most innovative and useful software for Palm has largely been developed by 3rd Party providers or freeware from enthusiasts - but even that has waned as the once-great Palm (one the de facto handheld device for business, students and professionals) has distanced itself from its end users as a hardware provider to wireless companies and leaves the rest of the brand to die by a thousand cuts.

The only thing Apple'esque about Palm is its ability to stick its head in the sand when it comes to dealing with product problems.

[packetsniffer @ May 20th 2008 8:22AM]

"let's hope it's got more design behind it than that nasty Zeppelin prototype."
WTF guys? Don't you read your own news? You just posted shots of the near-final Treo 800w and it (obviously) looked nothing like the Zeppelin prototype, which, BTW, was (obviously) nothing more than a photoshopped job to show designers the key layout.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/15/palm-treo-800w-caught-with-its-keys-showing/

I'm all for some good old fashioned Palm bashing, but let's keep it legit.

[Mobius_1 @ May 20th 2008 9:33AM]

I still have my broken Zire 71 and it is a good piece of kit. Come on Palm, what happened to the innovation in simplicity that made the Zire so much easier and nicer to use than WM machines!

[zorg @ May 20th 2008 9:34AM]

I continue to receive TOP SECRET information from Palm about its upcoming plans.

After the already mentioned introductions of the products code-named "Hindenburg" and "Titanic", Palm is planning two incredibly game-changing product intros, code-named "Edsel" and "New Coke". It's hard to imagine the impact these products will have on a market already reeling from Palm's masterful leadership.

Throughout these product introductions, Palm plans to continue its highly successful "roll over and play dead" corporate strategy. This has effectively lulled competitors into a false sense of security while Palm prepares its next revolutionary move.

Palm's biggest secret, and the one I'm almost afraid to share because they may turn on me for revealing it, is that they've engineered a "wait and see" approach to the smart phone market. This gives them a few additional precious years to "sit tight" and possibly be acquired or go out of business while competitors "spin their wheels" trying to satisfy demand.

[joe @ May 20th 2008 10:09AM]

Palm has had more than enough time to come up with a ground breaking design/os.

If they come out with another phone with a little splash of Palm I will jump ship.

[Justin @ May 20th 2008 10:20AM]

Who needs Palm when we'll have Android?

User-community modified and updated software, as well as licensed real software products.

We'll have software that is 3x nicer than Calendar, To Do, Notes and Memos on launch day.

I'm sorry, but Palm, I think your time has come. I've watched you faithfully from an m150, a Zire, a Treo 650 and now a T|3, and I've retired you. I'm ready for innovation, for capability, for design--you left them all behind in 1999.

[Dontgo Italone @ May 20th 2008 10:28AM]

There is also the alternate-Linux Limo organization that key-to-Palm carriers like Verizon have joined.

[rtdunham @ May 20th 2008 11:10AM]

I think we should expect something noteworthy:

Isn't it likely someone as creative as Rubenstein has at least a handful of exciting brainstorms that didn't get greenlighted at Apple, or that with the press of time he never even got the opportunity to present?

And isn't it likely a company in the circumstances Palm is in would give someone with a record like his the chance to run with a couple of them?

[rtdunham @ May 20th 2008 11:21AM]

I'd expect something exciting from this:

Surely Rubenstein had some great ideas that didn't get greenlighted at apple, or (more legally) that he didn't even have the time to present.

And a company in Palm's circumstances would surely give him the opportunity to run with a couple of them.

[Deep Pocket @ May 20th 2008 11:52AM]

Palm doesn't have enough money to run with previously-rejected-by-rich-company ideas.

Even if such ideas actually exist.

[Yuvamani @ May 20th 2008 4:36PM]

That rich big company happens to be apple which releases a handful of products a year. Thus there is a very very good probability of great ideas being let down on the editing room floor.

Of what I have heard on the rumour mill ( with a generous dollop of hope by all parties involved), The new palm OS is going to be pretty good .. Mainly due to all that apple know how coming in ...

The question will be - is it better than the new blackberry platform, Android and Windows Mobile 7, Not to mention Nokias Symbian touch platform and obviously the big daddy - OSX mobile.

The question really is how are they going to compete - Is it too late - maybe (most people would say probably)

Centros and treos are really stop gaps .. Stuff you need to do while you do a product refresh. Just fiulling out market niches till they have a reasonably competitive OS

[dhowse @ May 20th 2008 12:15PM]

I've been a loyal Palm customer since the Palm III. Best Palm based device ever was the Sony TH-55. Actually, it likes quite similar to an iPhone (and it came out around 2001) without the phone. An amazing device that Sony and Palm just walked away from.

As soon as Apple releases the iPhone G3 I'm buying one and dumping my Treo 680.

Palm had their chances to evolve over the last 7 years and they stuck with the technological equivelent of MS DOS 5.0. Stuck a fork 'em, they're done.

[Kev @ May 20th 2008 1:45PM]

As a previous Palm fan, I have learned in the past years to read through Palm's public announcements.

When some new product is said to be "released this coming summer", you can rest assured it will not, if it ever will.

When an approximate date is given for a product release, that would actually be the release date of a "press release explaining the delay of the product release".

When Palm does ever release a "new product", there is a very high chance it would be the exact same thing as the previously released Treo, and the Treo before that, and so on...... except that they have bumped the model number up yet again.

[loosely_coupled @ May 21st 2008 6:40AM]

I think Palm should have just focused their money and talen on making great next-generation hardware and just get in bed with google/Android for the OS.

If they really won't have devices with the new OS on the market until Q1-Q2 2009, there is no way they will compete. Both Apple's iPhone OS and Google's Android will both be maturing platforms with a huge base of active development and applications available. from standard developers mostly doing C/C++, thats already a huge undertaking to learn both Apple's Objective-C based Cocoa environment and Google's Java-based Linux platform. And both of these platforms will become hugely popular.
Even Nokia is now going for a big push into the US market.

Palm is just going to get swallowed up. I don't think even the TREO faithful will be real happy to move to a new Palm OS device once the other systems become embedded in the marketplace.

All of this effort is TOO LITTLE TOO LATE. They should have had totally new devices (NOT TREO variants like the "Centro") running an updated OS actually on the market in early-mid 2007. early 2009 just won't cut it.

[Paul @ May 27th 2008 2:53AM]

I have a Treo 680 here in Australia, which must be quivering in it's boots with my impending Iphone purchase - it keeps turning off and resetting mid call.

Does anyone believe that the new Palm software will apply to phones like mine or only newly-released ones ?

I have a crap of a time syncing a Palm to a Mac :(