Nothing too notable here -- just that Toshiba is apparently fixing to unveil a brand new DVD player in the age of Blu-ray that will be "capable of producing high-resolution images from regular DVDs." As you're laughing heartily, ponder this: are we looking at a simple upconverting DVD player? Or will that
Cell-based SpursEngine chip bring "super-resolution" to a standalone deck? According to unnamed sources cited by
Daily Yomiuri Online, the planned release "signifies an effort to recover from a humiliating setback suffered in March after announcing its decision to
withdraw from its HD DVD business." We really cannot fathom why Tosh would even dream of fighting BD with souped-up DVD, but reportedly, it plans on marketing the unit "as a device with which consumers can enjoy a broader array of content than is available in the Blu-ray format." Congratulations Toshiba -- we thought it couldn't get any lamer than
HD VMD, and you
handily proved us wrong.
[Via
VNU Net / Yahoo, image courtesy of
DangerousIntersection]
posted May 30th 2008 3:25PM
Congratulations engadget -- we thought it couldn't get any lamer than being such Blue Ray fanboy site as you are right now, and you handily proved us wrong.
Oh please, do you expect them to be HD-DVD fans? And if they are fanboys of ANYTHING, it's Apple and Eee PC's.
Don't forget Pleo.
911: 911, what is your emergency?
tt: Help. I have been hit. Please send the waaaambulance immediately!
fanboy = reporting on new technology and related news.
wait, thats not what it means at all.
It's not blu-ray fanboyism, its incredibility at the idea of taking on blu-ray with an upconverting DVD player (lets face it, that's all this can and will ever be).
incredulity
No I expect Engadget to have a bit of dignity by not twisting the knife in any furter. However as expected dignity and Engadget are about as close together as napalm and chocolate milk.
Judging by the h264 videos I've downloaded, even 1080p ought to be able to fit on a regular DVD as long as a codec better than mpeg2 (LOL) is used.
bluray is so hype - the only real losers are the consumers who purchase the hi def dvds.
Blu-ray looks great on my tv. Maybe not on your 13 inch goldstar? Maybe...
haha is this like my dick is bigger than yours? :rofl:
come on now - lets act grown up.
Yes im bigger
Upscaled DVDs don't look as good as Blu Ray discs that have been remastered for Blu Ray specifically. I've compared them back to back, there's a huge difference.
If you have an older display, an SD source is fine because your display is unable to show you all the goods from a great HD source.
It's a totally different story if you have a cutting-edge display. Upscaling players with the best DVDs won't hold a candle to the best from hi-def (blu-ray, HD DVD, HTPC, blah blah blah) sources. There is a huge difference with clean hi-def sources... but only if your display is capable of it.
As for this new Toshiba product, I don't see the point. There is only so much you can do with interpolation of an SD source.
Do you people really have to say a HD source is better than an upscaled DVD source? And did you really have to test that to realise that? Common now guys.
sony is doomed
Better than doom3ed I guess.
(Uh oh, now I deserve a low rating for my lame joke, but I can't stop myself hitting add)
wait a sec it plays doom?
Oh oh oh now this sounds like a good idea!!!
Use normal DVDs and upconvert them to... oh wait....
there's only but sooo much you can pull from a 480P source!!!
and yes this will make them enough money to forget about HD-DVD... NOT!.
Now if they had done this ebfore... it would make mroe sense
Getting our joke-making cues straight out of Borat are we?
Well done sir....very nice NOT! joke. Bravo.
Bacon, dude, NOT jokes have been since well before Borat came out. You just jumped on something you thought made it popular.
I guess this is all under the guise that any DISC format is even going to survive the next couple of years. FIOS, U-VERSE, and 700mhz here we come! I just wish they had it in my area.
Download is going to win here, people are moving away from all physical formats (photos, cd's, books, .... movies), you get it.
Disc formats are gonna be around for a long time to come. I honestly can't believe that you think discs will disappear anytime in the near future! Even if downloading movies becomes big, people will want to be able to save that movie and move it around wherever they want, therefor you need discs. I would rather go buy the physical format, then decide what format i want to convert it into. Hard drives are too unreliable and SSD's aren't even close to affordable and also lack the capacity. Don't be such an idiot!
"I just wish they had it in my area"
You just hit it on the head on why your comment is wrong. The amount of people that have, or even have access to fast enough internet for downloads to seriously hurt optical media is way to low in the US.
The broadband infrastructure in the UK is already very slow due to people downloading shows and movies off of the BBC iPlayer etc. and without upgrading the entire country's broadband, it will stay this way
And I don't think that will be happening in the next few years. This is the same story in soo many other countries as well. So, everyone who is saying that physical media will be replaced within the next 10 years is sadly mistaken.
Hooterman said: "The amount of people that have, or even have access to fast enough internet for downloads to seriously hurt optical media is way to low in the US."
You mean sorta how no one has an HDTV yet??
Number of households with HDTVs: 25%
Number of households with broadband: 47%
Broadband is being adopted at a much faster rate overall than HDTVs, wired & wireless. And I don't even wanna get into how Blu-ray is doing on that scale.
@ peestandingup
The broadband percentage that you're using is also based off of 256kb/s being considered broadband. I'm sure the stellar performance that you'd get trying to download/stream movies on a connection like that would completely win people over and show them why that solution is so much better than using a disc.
Laugh all you want... perhaps i'm in the minority here but many of my friends and family can't even tell the difference between upscaled regular dvd's and hd content. If the results of this "super-resolution" is anything close to this: http://compression.ru/video/super_resolution/super_resolution_en.html than color me impressed. If the price is right, I could see this selling very well.
Adam
Combine that with modern codecs on a dual layer 9GB DVD and suddenly it /is/ comparable to Blu-Ray, except that the media and drives would be drastically cheaper.
I hope this stuff looks better than those examples, or else Toshiba is in more trouble.
And how can you and your family not see the difference in HD? Unless you guys are watching your movies on a 26" Vizio, the only way you wouldn't be able to tell the difference is if it's hooked up incorrectly. Wrong cables, wrong settings, not actual HD content, etc.
Either you're blind or you have a sucky TV. It's time to get a new 1080P TV.
It's all dependent on the quality of your TV.
I have a 27" 1080i CRT HDVD. You can see the difference on my setup, but it's like a 10% improvement in quality with the Blu-Ray.
My brother got a nice 42" 1080p LCD, and I took my PS3 over to show him some content while he waited for his HD satellite install. On that set, the Blu-Ray looked much better, because you could see all the detail, while the DVD looked much worse because you could see all the artifacts.
you can't tell a difference? I think you need to get your eyes checked or else you are trying to compare an upscaled dvd with regular compressed TV quality HD. Try viewing a dvd next to a 1080p blu-ray.
I'm seeing a lot of buyer's remorse in this thread, when deep-down somebody knows they spend a bunch of money on a useless piece of shit so they go online and take their deep negative emotions out on people who were smart enough not to invest in said piece of shit. A good movie is enough to stand on its own and not need a 5,000 dollar TV and a 600 DVD player to enjoy it. I enjoyed Empire Strikes Back as much on my 20" Walmart SD TV hooked up to my 15 year old stereo as you did on your 1080p 80" HDTV, and deep down you know this.
HAHAH... Well, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference either on a 19" Trinitron CRT
hey, I know that guy..
So this player will Super Up-Convert?
I guess we'll all marvel at how this new player really SUC's.
looks like its going to be a peice of S.H.I.T. (super high-tech innovative technology)
Does it upscale the audio quality as well? Yeah, thought so.
Can't take more resolution from where there is none.
Johnny Consumer and his $349 doesn't know that...
Not true. There's always a better interpolation algorithm.
Take a look at 120Hz TVs. For 24fps video they do a damn good job at recreating those extra 4 pictures between each pair of recorded frames.
Look and Learn
http://compression.ru/video/super_resolution/super_resolution_en.html
Erm... I think they just play the same picture for 1/24th of a second (5 frames)
But I have been wrong before. There was that time in '95... and um thats it.
I agree with the OP. As good as these algorithms may be, they will never produce anything other than fake comp generated detail. I'd rather have my resolution come from a true HD source rather than from a chip's best guess. This is very similar to optical vs digital zoom on digital cameras.
no no no this is brillian!!! they are fighting blu-ray with DVD's!! allow people to put those ultra-compressed 1080p MKV files on a standard dirt-cheap DVD and BAM.. right in the kisser, BAM.. right in the kisser....
That sounds like a good idea.
As I mentioned in my other post, this is probably 3XDVD or some related technology that puts HD video on DVD media. The problem is that basically it's another HD format. Sure, it's backwards-compatible and will probably upconvert DVDs, the players will be cheaper, the prerecorded media will be cheaper on both the manufacturing and retail aspects---but weren't these already HD-DVD's advantages over Blu-Ray?
The only way I could see this as being useful is if they made it a RECORDER as well, and work the angle of this being an affordable way for people to archive the HD recordings from their HD camcorders. I'm doing it right now with my Mac and Toast 9, but I'd love a standalone console solution.
That would be nice if they support Matroska on DVD media. Currently the only thing that does that I am aware of is the Popcorn Hour device (not on optical media though).
Cause buying "Juno", "27 Dresses", "Dan In Real Life", etc. etc. isn't lame. Nice try people....Q
Buying them north of 20 dollars is what I meant...Q
i honestly hope Toshiba delivers something of substance here. What we really need is for The BLuray companies to understand that in this day you cant gouge the consumers with high prices and deliver no attractive products.
If the average consumer could purchase a SUper upscaled dvd player to accompany their already large DVD collection Bluray would be DEAD.
If anything people should adopt this toshiba technology fast so Sony and the other BLuray MOBSTERS get their act toghether and release a standard and lower prices so people can afford to purchase this stuff. COMPETITION IS GOOD.
I was all for the HDDVD standard even bought a xbox360 player. Once they lost i was bitter, but i figured i would buy BR when the price dropped. YEAH whens that gonna happen now? XMAS? why would i wanan buy the old stock of dead standard BR players?
So Cmon Engagdet..HELLO Your a GADGET BLOG get your shit toghether OPEN your eyes and see that Toshiba's move will cause the BR people to produce some quality. Not some fly by night standards that keep changing or players that get no firmware updates.
COMPETITION..
COMPETITION..
DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS!!!!
Thankfully some sense.
I wanted a winner. But Sony is an unworthy winner.
I have a Sony 1080p TV. I will buy a HD source player once they're competitive. They're not at present, and I really thought they would be by now. It's not enough to pay off studios, you need to invest in the technology once you're the dominant force, if you want to really see penetrations - Sony et al have taken their eye off the ball.
Those writing off downloaded content are wrong. Streamed/dwnld is happening, and it's slowly making disc irrelevant (In the main). People will still buy their favourites to keep - BluRay or whatever, but casual movie fans will download. Online providers *are* investing...
I'll always buy discs of regulars (Pixar films for the kids, my favs etc), but I'm happy to "rent" downloads on a weekly basis for me and my partner. And I'll download - even @ 720p - more than I'll buy.
I always preferred vanilla discs, anyway. :o)
I'd be more than happy to get the best out of my 150-200 or so DVDs. Tosh may give me a better return on my investment!
I want to see the same video, side by side on both the standard DVD and the this new fangled stuff.
As lame as another upconverting DVD player would be, perhaps Toshiba is looking to release a format that stores 720P or 1080P video on standard DVD-9's? That could possibly be a winner.
It doesn't sound like a mere upconverter; sounds like 3xDVD to me.
This post is kind of disturbing -- how is offering a new player technology that works on EXISTING MEDIA possibly a bad thing? They are not asking you to buy anything you don't already own other than the player. Which current up-converting units are claiming as well.
I am personally so disappointed with Blu-ray prices that I am likely to try this out for under a few hundred bucks.
Praise the lord!
Some sense!
How is BR not existing media? In either case you have to buy a new player. Toshiba needs to quit fucking around and just start making BR players.
Nevermind... I misunderstood what you were saying. This is still totally pointless. It's just another upsclaing DVD player producing fake detail. Woo hoo!
I heard BlueRay's sales have been disappointing since HD DVD folded. Maybe consumers aren't as ready to jump to BlueRay as Sony would like? Regardless, competition is great. Let the marketplace decide!
Your credibility is shot as you can't even spell Blu-Ray correctly.
What's with the missing e anyway? is that engrish or what?
Or was it so the HD-DVD people could quip 'blur-ay' but they never caught on to that angle?
sony couldnt copyright "Blue" ray, so they dropped the e and just called it Blu-ray, a name in which they can indeed copyright
This has nothing to do with upscaling.
Toshiba plans to stream HD versions over the web, just like iTunes.
So... you get the DVD, which is ultra-compatible with everything, and on these new players... you get the HD version.
HD DVD lives on in the broadband cloud... and yeah, I wrote about it on my blog a long time ago :)
That's not what the article says nor does that make any sense. Are you claiming that they will stream the HD versions of DVDs you arleard own for free? If so, that's a pipe dream.
admit defeat. move on.
Its about time they changed their name to "blugadget"...
While these players wont produce better pictures than from br discs themselves the benefit is EVERY DVD you own will allegedly look better, which cannot be said when using current br players to do the upconversion which for the most part do not upconvert very well, with the exception of those few players that have the REON chip (which I believe is limited to 1 Samsung standalone and their dual-format player).
I'm still waiting for my upconverting Betamax player
Lots of discussion about what is "lame" on this board. What's more lame than having to re-purchase your entire DVD library in another fscking format?
Tech fanboys are happy to blow thousands on new TVs and players, but I think the average consumer is sick and tired of rapidly changing formats. Yes DVD has been around for a good 10 years, but didn't gain mainstream acceptance until about 5 years ago. Now they're supposed to discard their TVs, DVD players and entire movie library?
I think Toshiba understands that your average consumer with 100+ DVDs may be very happy to buy a player that will play their existing library for the forseeable future.
I agree with you totally. Only change your 10 to a 15 and your 5 to a 10. Time flys when your having fun watching DVD.
ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD
Yeah, it would be so much better if these stupid BluRay machines would just play all of your old DVD's as well so you wouldn't have to buy the new format if you didn't want to...oh wait...
Hmmmm i don't think anyone said you should discard your DVD collection. I'm also glad that you speak for all of the average consumers, especially since by even posting on this website, you are not an average consumer! Did you totally disregard the technical differences between DVD and Blu-Ray???? Were you saying this same thing when DVD came around and people started moving away from VHS? Also, Blu-Ray players............PLAY DVD's AS WELL!!!!!! Thats backwards compatibility genius!! Most upscale as well. Next time, think before you post!
No ones pointing a gun to yer head and making you re-buy all your DVD's on Blu. If you don't want it, don't buy it. Studios will continue to release DVD movies so no one is forcing you or any consumer to do anything. We now have a choice for those of us who prefer higher quality PQ.
I just find it funny how people want charity from studios and BD player companies and expect them to give their players away, or release movies in HD for $3... serious reality check needed.
as coolone said, Blu-ray players do infact upconvert so there is no need to repurchase your entire collection, just start purchasing newer films in the new format as opposed to the old.
When you look at the jump from DVD to Blu-ray as compared to the jump from VHS to DVD, blu-ray really is a more cost effective. You can play all of your movies on a sinlge unit as opposed to two separate devices.
Lets face it, Blu-ray players are here to stay. Lets just be thankful that the players do infact play standard dvds
HD-DVD or Blu either way.... I'm surprised people who actually take time to comment on a gadget blog seem to think their 480 lines of Mpeg-2/ macroblocked/30p at best/Ac3 DVD collection looks "good" compared to a 1080 HD disc.
Maybe you all own a$$ quality televisions. Or didn't realize that yellow composite cable that comes with your Ps3 isn't HD?
I can watch Std DVDs. So I'm sure I can watch up-scaled ones.
I have a 1080p Sony HD TV. And I use HDMI.
Your point is?
Should I spend several thousand pounds replacing my current DVD library or by something that gets the most out of it?
I just spent $6,000 (over £3,000) with Apple on two new Macs... (I'm in the UK, see VAT). I'm not scared off by price, I just like to see value for money...
@aaronsheath
lol, no you don't, you like to see pretty things for your money, you should love rebuying your whole movie collection on BR (which you obviously don't have to do to enjoy a BR player).
You didn't even read my post.
No amount of fairy dust will make a DVD look better than a 1080p HD disc.
some on engadget seem to think an upscaled DVD looks "just as good" as a 1080 disc.
I call BS on them.
BTW, you must be rich.
No, I'm not rich. I have needs!
I'm not saying that 1080p is comparable - quality-wise.
I'm saying I'm rather see a return on the $$$$ I already spent. I have no desire to buy all that content again. If Tosh can give me a better DVD experience, and future DVDs will carry a newer, better codec, than I'll be happy. :o)
why do people not understand that Blu Ray players will upscale your DVDs as well? I mean, its not something you have to go re-buy a bunch of media or something... buying a blu-ray player and using it primarily as an upscaler is likely going to be about the same quality as this thing from toshiba, only you also have the option to play some true HD content should you have the desire
"Toshiba is apparently fixing to unveil a brand new DVD player"
Fixing to? I thought that expression was reserved only for Texans (like myself). Well, I ain't gonna criticize nobody if ya'll start writing that way!
...as for the DVD player itself, how will this compare to the already super "Superbit DVD" format? What's better than super?
This will be a monumental FAIL.
If it was a noticeable difference and a decent price I would consider purchasing this. I still haven't recovered from the switch to DVD. Not that I had a huge amount of VHS's but it really sucks trying to replace all these old classics (Ace Ventura, Night at the Roxbury, Surf Ninjas, lol) and its quite costly.
@ Coolone3000: I don't claim to speak for all average consumer, jackass, I prefaced my opinions with "I think" - learn to differentiate.
I understand the technical differences between HD DVD and Blu-Ray and I don't care, it wasn't the issue I was speaking to. Toshiba claims to have a player that gets better resolution than Sony's upscaling of existing DVDs.
At this stage in the game, I'm apt to get on board with just about anyone other than Sony, hence my comments about re-purchasing an existing library. Sony is always happy to produce a new system that will cause you to be trapped in their lifecycle. You get on board with any aspect of the Blu-Ray game, and you're done. Have fun.
Hey idiot!! I said the technical difference between DVD and Blu-Ray, not HD-DVD and Blu-Ray in which you were commenting about! There is plenty of technical differences to make people choose Blu-Ray. I was all about HD-DVD and still think its a better format in most ways, but its over now. As much as i HATE Sony, thats not gonna make Blu-Ray go away, or change the fact that Blu-Ray WILL be the next home movie format! In your original post you didn't mention Sony one time, or the fact that you hate them??? No where in the article did it mention that the upscaling technique is supposed to be better then what Sony can do. What exactly are you smoking??? Once again i will say that you don't have to purchase your existing library over again, you can simply purchase new releases if you wanted to and still be able to play all your existing DVD's. Also, if Toshiba would have won the format war it would be the same scenario with your old library. Now........go take a nap, recuperate your thoughts, i don't know, try playing brain age or something or else i'll have to post again just to make your realize how much of an idiot you sound like.
Yeah, I sound like an idiot starting off my posts with "Hey idiot!!"
Good one! With your skills in diplomacy and the written word, why there's no limit to what you can accomplish! Why waste time on the Internet when you could be changing millions of young minds and lives with your powerful rhetoric?
If you honestly see no difference between investing in Toshiba vs. Sony, then I guess we don't have anything else to argue about.
Now I'm off to "recuperate" my thoughts - enjoy your DS Lite!
Yeah, good job disregarding every single point i made about your idiotic comments and take the sarcasm route. At least you took my advice about taking a nap.
You're arguing against yourself, assclown. You should change your username to StrawMan.
Actually i'm arguing with you because you keep replying to me lol. I'm just halfway messing with you man, but seriously, i've invested plenty in Toshiba with all the HD-DVD content that i've bought and my Toshiba laptop. Really though, your first comment was an ignorant assessment of whats really going on simply based on your hatred of Sony?
Ok, we're back to discussion then, which I appreciate. It's the invective that I take issue with, so my apologies. I think you read my initial comment while disregarding some factors that I took as a given.
- HD-DVD players will upconvert existing DVDs.
- Blu-Ray players will upconvert existing DVDs.
- It isn't a given that Blu-Ray will become the next standard just yet, the adoption rate has been very slow, and all-digital solutions are rapidly encroaching on that market as well.
My position (which is another assumption) - IF current HD-DVD will already upconvert, then why would this be news? Because Toshiba is going to position "super resolution" as being superior to the current upconversion. That's the only reason this would make news.
As you have stated - yes, regardless of who won the format war, to enjoy the advantage of new hi-def standards, one will have to re-purchase anyway. My points were only that 1) I'll take Toshiba over Sony any day, and 2) this product must have more to it, since existing HD-DVD players already upconvert.
That's a little more clear, right? Cheers.
I think it's a great idea. Tons more DVD's out their that are not blue ray. Blue ray disksare typical Sony over Priced. The sound does not need improving over good plain DVD's So IF IF the price of the unit is good and the quality, reliability, etc. of the unit is good, then I am going that route and Ignore Blue Ray it's just became the "Lisa" of the video world.
LOL
Thats true....just like when I had a sony digital camera and then switched to a canon. Had to buy new SD cards because sony has their own "memory sticks."
Its hardly the age of Blu-Ray when fewer than 5% of the people who own DVD players have Blu-Ray
epoch fail
Take that Sony!
This is a perfectly cromulent idea that is sure to embiggen Toshiba