Envy 133 and MacBook Air duke it out in the flesh
By Paul Miller 
posted Jun 10th 2008 10:06AM
posted Jun 10th 2008 10:06AM
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go mac!
Go Envy!
go banana!
GO GO POWER RANGERSSS NAHHH NAHHH NAH NAH NAH
Go away!
Go Go enGadget Copter!
I prefer Mac's but the clear winner here is the Envy. All the MBA's got on it is looks.... plus it cuts cake.
So our options are blunt clever or meat knife?
Isn't there another nah in the power rangers Song?
I was alive then so i should know!!!
P.S. Blue ranger got the shaft, everyone knows he was more fit to lead than the red ranger...
Of all of those reply, the winner is ...
TIM BROWN!!!
You made me lold!
replies....
EDIT FUNCTION PLZ
I would kill for an edit function...
Esquire put it best when their tech reviewer made a comment comparing a high end PC laptop running on Vista with a Ferrari with square wheels.
Now I've read Clak I'll never go Mac.
Intel graphics != marginally acceptable. I don't get it. They make such good processors and have made strides in the market place being the defacto leader since the introduction of the Core architecture and AMD choosing the way of the Motorola and Palm (piss poor business decisions). But Intel's graphics suck, horribly.
I read that != as meaning that they are acceptable, rather than marginally acceptable. For some reason my brain thinks marginal is a negative. I must have high standards, ha.
In programming, "!=" means "not equal to".
It would have been fine to say "Intel graphics != acceptable". However "Intel graphics != marginally acceptable" translates to "Intel graphics are not marginally acceptable". If they are not marginally accaptable, what are they? "very acceptable"? The statement could mean either better or worst than "marginal".
they're working on it - go google Larrabee and the new integrated graphics that are coming with Montevina.
Besides, you can't expect too much from integrated graphics anyways purely on size - look at the graphics chip on a motherboard, it looks just like the CMOS chips and northbridge/southbridge chips, maybe a little bigger, and no heatsink. Then look at the nVidia/AMD boards - collosal, easily ten times the size, and with humongous heat sinks. Honestly what did you think was going to happen?
okay, then
Intel_Graphics < Marginally_Acceptable
or in layman's terms: Intel Graphics sucks donkey balls.
I don't care about power consumption or heat. They made a product that couldn't handle the most basic of tasks in Windows XP, let alone vista. Sure, it was low power and it didn't put out a lot of heat - but it didn't work either. I have this brick, it doesn't put out heat and doesn't use any power and it doesn't display graphics either. Just like Intel Graphics.
A fail is a fail. They failed.
Um... does anybody here speak Freedom?
Freedom. There is no such thing. Go to any country, any country. From the most Red/Blue state in the US to the most communist society and try taking a dump on the side of the road. They will punish you, some MUCH more severely than others. China will beat you senseless and probably throw you in a torture chamber of a jail for 10 years, California will fine you into bankruptcy, classify you as a sex offender, throw a tracking bracelet on you and not allow you to move within 100000 feet of any child in the country.
We have 0 freedom. Say a guy is robbing your house and you shoot him, you go to jail, the news classifies you a right wing white supremacist Nazi apologist and you lose your job, your house and all your money.
You meet a girl in a bar, have a few drinks each and take her home and seal the deal. The next day, she feels guilty and like a slut, she says you raped her and you get arrested, get classified as a sex offender, get a permanent tracking bracelet, get fired from your job, lose all your money, get chemically castrated and you can no longer move within 100000 feet of any child in the country.
You go to Taco Bel in NYCl, eat a few Gorditas and need to fart. You fart in the general direction of anyone who is Gay, Lesbian, Transgender, Black, Asian, Latino, etc... and you get arrested for a hate crime, get labeled as a right wing white supremacist nazi apologist and you lose your job, money, wife, kids.
Freedom, HAH. You can't even buy a DVD and watch the same movie on your iPod without paying another $10.00. We have no freedom.
Hell, try buying a product that has directions and accepted uses printed on the product's container. If you use it in a manner that isn't listed, even if its not illicit, you can be fined AND go to jail.
WE HAVE NO FREEDOM. We are royally F*CKED. And going to hell in a handbag.
How in the world do you know the different forms of punishment one will receive for taking a dump on the side of the road in various countries?
If you want total freedom, move to Iraq, Afghanistan or Somalia and do whatever the hell you want. Let's see if you survive.
Our understanding of freedom in the west is not 'total' and was never understood to be that way. It is freedom within your own private realm. You can exercise freedom but you cannot exercise it in a way that impedes the freedom of others. So no, you can't drive drunk at 100mph on the wrong side of the road. That's because you would be risking other people's rights, and that is something you do not have the freedom to do.
@Tydei8:
I've never been arrested for it, but went on a PA FOP sponsored bus trip through wine country in California. But, the bus didn't have a bathroom and I needed to do #2. So I went in a bush just as a CHP officer drove by. I had to listen to a 10 minute tirade from the officer on what would of happened if 20 of my buddies didn't flash their badges at him. Never been to China, but from what I heard what happens if you spit gum on the street, I can only imagine the horrors that would ensue if one were to defecate on the street.
@GenBanks:
I was being facetious. Except the whole lack of fair use with media and the Canadian government wanting Copyright police that can search your laptop, cellphone and iPod for copyright infringement.
Sorry, @MadMike, but I would gladly live with small rules of order in exchange for the broader freedoms a civilized society affords.
I'm really not sure if you were being serious with your i-can't-take-a-dump-i-have-no-real-freedom argument, but briefly: If everyone could simply defecate on the side of the road, the high level of sanitary conditions we have come to enjoy in this country would quickly deteriorate. Disease would become rampant. Not to mention the smell. (You think it's bad when crap is confined to the sewers??)
404 Not Found
Why does it have a giant track pad if it doesnt have multi-touch?
Apparently it does. Multitouch = wave of the future, clearly.
Actually it does. Thats what the video said
I think they already stated that the Envy has multi-touch.
Also the Air's the only one that's good for cake-cutting because of its illusionary aggressive tapering. I wonder how thick it would look if it didn't have that misleading taper, though?
Clak,
What's with the Ponies man? Bestiality fetish? They make drugs for that.
Anyway yes. Mac for Mac OS X, PC for Winblows or Linux. Mac OS X has its distinct advantages as a daily use OS. For everything except gaming, I use Mac OS X. XP is useful for business connectivity and gaming. My gaming PC and my work PC run Win XP Pro.
Linux is great for research, coding, servers, getting into 'trouble', etc... I use Gentoo for all of my unsavory activities. I got this signal generator for linux one time, that plus $10 of parts from the Granger catalog and every car alarm for 3 blocks was going off. :-)
That Envy is the first Windows 'book that I've wanted in a while. Depending on Uk prices (If it's even going to be available in the UK) I may get one. Would complement my Air very nicely.
Here is the way I see it....
See?
Its all what you want for an OS at this point.
I don't Envy anybody who is forced to use Microserf!
Yes, all microsoft users are forced to use their OS.
Bad ecobore,
you smashed my dreams of peace.
go away with your bobo's laptop
Wow, I'm impressed.
No mac vs pc yet.
Will there finally be peace?
The reason for that is because the MBA sucks. Envy is better. Everyone knows it. Yes I'm a Mac user but I would probably buy the Envy before a MBA. But if I had $2000 to blow I wouldn't waste it on an underpowered machine.
No, I definitely agree.
Its ridiculous the amount of money Apple asks for the air while sacrificing so much hardware.
I dont understand how anyone justifies buying an air when the mpb is a fraction more expensive, only a fraction thicker, and far surpasses the airs capabilities.
Well the Air's actually OK now that they've got past the build quality issues. I must say the Envy's nicer though from an aesthetic point of view - it just looks more chiselled and defined.
*gushes*
As for OSX vs Windows, both have good and bad points.
*shrugs*
@ Clak:
I totally agree with you. I won't buy any non OSX computer.
I agree.
I have nothing against windows, I have used it all my life up to about a year ago.
OSX just seems so pure compared to xp now, i really dont know how to explain it.
I still use xp too, for gaming and such, as OSX cant do everything.
But as a daily OS I doubt I could ever get used to using xp again.
Ooh, I so want the Envy to come out in Europe.
They make bestiality pills?
I prefer OS X over Windows, but the lack of it certainly isn't a reason "they" won't buy it. Windows has 92% marketshare, so obviously its not stopping too many people from buying OS X-free computers. So while you can say that its lack of OS X makes it useless in your eyes, in the eyes of the majority of people, that doesn't make a difference.
Voodoo's site [www.voodoopc.com] has a PDF up about the envy.
Highlights:
-.70 inches thick
-weighs 3.373lbs with ssd
-1.6ghz or 1.8ghz Core 2 Duo
-64gb ssd or 80gb hard drive
-Intel graphics
-multitouch trackpad
-backlit keyboard
-claimed 3:45 of battery life
-1 USB port and 1 "e-SATA / USB 2.0 combo"- not sure how that works out
-expresscard slot
-HDMI out
-no XP option (vista only)
Looks interesting.
Here's hoping that it's not even more overpriced than the Air (not that I could ever afford either of them, anyway).
Well the Air has better battery life, soooo.... choose your necessary evil: non-replaceable battery but with high battery life (quoted: 5 hours), or replaceable low-power batteries (quoted: 3:45 hours).
I'm a recent convert. I switched about 4 years ago after using Windows exclusively since version 3.1. I still have to use Windows daily at work and I don't hate it but I do wish we could use OS X instead. That'll never happen though. We are still using XP and I don't think IT has any plans to switch to Vista. That's fine. As a CAD user, any decrease in performance is a detriment.
Windows just seems to not have the attention to detail that OS X does. OS X IS clean. Just compare the OS directory structures of Windows and OS X. Why are background images in the Windows folder along with system files? The hosts file is in \Windows\system32\drivers\etc. That makes no sense! When you install 3rd party software in Windows things become even more disorganized. Not so in OS X since programs are stored in bundles. I think programmers like Microsoft because they aren't made to follow any standards.
Not me, I bought my Mac (regular MacBook, not an Air) to run Windows on! The eurgonomics of the hardware is independent of the operating system:
- Mac's large track pad - I just couldn't bare to use the puny trackpad on my Dell laptop after experiencing the large and perfect sensitivity of Apple's trackpad! So, I'm very pleased to see another manufacturer put a good sized trackpad on their laptop.
- Mac's balance - the battery's weight is near the front which makes it more stable and wobble less!!! I can even use it on my legs at an angle without it threatening to tip backwards like the Dell.
- Mac's smooth underside - it slides effortlessly into my backpack while the Dell's protuding rubber feet would often get caught on something.
- Mac's air vents are at the hinge - it doesn't complain when I put it on a blanket while the Dell's fan would rev up to full blast whenever it came in contact with anything other than a hard flat table surface.
- Mac's quietness - it's fan rarely runs fast enough to hear while the Dell's fan was always changing speed and making a fuss.
The thing I don't understand is, how hard is it for other manufacturers to make a laptop with a smooth case with the battery and air vents in the right place?
Internet explorer != windows.
I personally can't stand OSX. I find everything to be needlessly turned into something confusing, that's supposed to be "helpful."
Like instead of easily having the "file" or preferences menu attached to a program, moving it away from the program, so it sits up on the top left, taking up where there should be apple's version of a start bar? Why make something more complicated than it should be? Why make everything visual, when it ends up becoming less efficient or convoluted? Why not just have a regular desktop to place things on, instead of the oversized interactive menu at the bottom of the screen which takes up extra space? Why not just have very easy to use max/minimize buttons on every program?
--------------
To each his own---but it's not as simple as "once you go Apple, you never go back." I really enjoy the ability to customize everything, and I often find it harder on Macs. Personal experience, though.
My point isn't that OSX is incapable of these things; everything I listed, Apple has its own version of. But they seem to take something simple, give it a few extra colors and a smooth animation, add a few limitations and inability to customize, and then they brand it as "simplicity."
what does it say on the macbook air screen endeavo(red)?
The MBA is like a Miata-sleek, small and underpowered. It's a style statement. I do agree that most OS X folks wouldn't switch. They couldn't. Windows is too complex for them. When significant choice is present, lack of simplicity also is present.
Take a look at Photoshop- it's a tremendously powerful and capable program. It's also complex. Take a look at the manual. It's the SAME for both operating systems. I like XP because it's far more customizable (all that "think differently" and "I can have it MY way") than OS X. And, for me, choice outweighs whatever increase in complexity there is. Now, don't get me started on Vista ....
Why did you get voted down o.0
@WarMouse
I respect you preferences to windows, but your experience shows how many windows users try out osx and get frustrated before figuring out how to change things. I remember when everyone was fussing about no right click, when the secondary click had been added years ago.
The apple menu has never been apples version of the start bar. True, it has the clock and sys apps running on the right, but the left side had always been the common anchor for file, edit, etc. I find this approach simpler...whatever window is on top has priority of the menu bar.
And you claim the dock is oversized, but with even the slightest attempt you can change the dock to any size you want. I dont even use mine.
It is, however, useful to the computer illiterate because of its simplicity.
replies....
EDIT FUNCTION PLZ
replies....
EDIT FUNCTION PLZ
For what you get, I don't think it's overpriced at all. The ethernet port in the powerbrick is genius - seriously, what is up with that funky dongle thing with the Air? Plus, the Envy just looks secksay.
Dear Engadget,
As some readers have pointed out recently, and for as long as I can remember (which isn't long thanks to all the beer I drank in college), the comment system on all of the BlogSmithMedia sites is royally f*cked hardcore.
Having an edit function would be nice, as well as removing the gay "rating" stuff.
But, one feature we really want, is for the comments to actually submit and show the FIRST time consistently. Now most of the people on this site are most likely using Mozilla Firefox 2.0. I would just like for once, to be able to not have to copy my comment into the clipboard because I may have to submit it 50 times before it even goes and displays so I know it went and we don't have 50000493903903091303109310931093109319310931^8387372 redundant comments.
Thank You.
Your friend,
Mad Mike
PS.: I needed to send this comment, two times already.
It's a filtering thing. If the system deems your comment not all that worthy, then it doesn't post it for the first few times. But after 40 something tries, it finally succumbs to your request.
you know....i dont disagree that OS X is a great os....but why do they now have Windows running on Macs and not the other way round???
you can search on youtube...there was an interview with both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates...in that interview Steve started with telling all about OS X and how it was superior and the defects with Windows...when it was Bill's turn...he just said...I'm not fake like Steve Jobs and now Windows run on Macs too
you get my point guys???
the Envy looks sexy
also...atleast it has vents to cool off the machine and also a removable battery
Esquire put it best when their tech reviewer made a comment comparing a high end PC laptop running on Vista with a Ferrari with square wheels.
Honestly, I like both OSes fine. XP SP3 or Vista SP1 vs OSX? I don't see such a point, people will always defend what they like till death, and arguing about it in the comments section will not change their mind.
I use OSX at school (graphics design program) and XP at home, i find both of them have their respective advantages and disadvantages. And the user of one OS doesn't have the right to bash a user of the other OS. OSX is simpler and purer, no spyware and viruses (because it owns so little marketshare, this is bound to happen, OSX is not THAT much more secure than VISTA from a coding standpoint), Microsoft OSes run on virtually everything, and not just limited hardware, has more powerful hardware, but is infested with spyware and viruses, although a simple program called Zonealarm fixes all that.
I mean arguing about it is moot.
The only thing i don't like about Apple is it's marketing department it's full of assholes. Leave PC alone already, you don't see Microsoft making such commercials, and don't say they don't have any basis to make such commercials, total lack of games (the only method to play games is to boot into the competition's OS), etc. At this point, most people who view them don't think Mac is better, they just think Apple is conceited and are a bunch of dicks. Market surveys have shown that the viewer actually sympathizes with PC, and prefer the PC character over the Mac character. So, just stop them, they're not doing you any favours, just bolstering your images as a snobby company.
I'd recommend the sony vaio TZ.
I recently switch from XP to vista and I have to say it runs like a dream. Everything is nice and smooth and according to Ballmer its the most secure OS on the market.
I went specifically for non apple laptop since I've used Apple computers at my university for nearly a year and still couldnt quite get used to OS X. I'm more familiar with windows and it feels like its more flexible and offers me more freedom. OS X looks really neat though and I had a blast with expose. With just one button press I could see all my applications running and just select it. It looks really nice and neat. OS X runs really smooth and fast but I just couldnt get the hang of it.
im liking the quick boot OS in the Envy
Hahaha. clak, I used OSX frequently for a couple months and hated every second of it. Sure, it's great that no one cares enough about the OS to write spyware for it, but I prefer an powerful operating system to one that looks "nice" and is "cool" and "CAN'T DO JACK SHlT"
Interesting comments on this thread - the most balanced views I've read on Engadget in a long time. Maybe most fruit lovers and haters had enough to feed on yesterday on the WDC coverage and took a day off.
Anyways - reason for my post is that while we constantly look at new releases of Apple vs Windows releases don't you ever get a feeling that innovation has slowed down quite a bit. Not to pick on Vista - but after 5 yrs of work on a new OS -- all they could come up with is some shiny new front-end (I know the innards have been completely rewritten but this being a closed source software - can anyone vouch for that?)? Take OSX / Linux (Ubuntu) to that matter ... with every so called major release yearly, do we see the kind of innovation that we saw in the late 80's and early 90's?
I think we are beating down the same worn path of the "Desktop" analogy with "Files", "Folders" ,"Documents", "Cabinets", "Paper Weights"(Vista Ultimate Toys :D ) .. etc. These analogies we good to structure our software initially when we were building the blocks but now that the technology is mature I think it is confining our imagination and stifling innovation. It high time we invest in new paradigms in computing (anyone find the "Sugar" OS innovative?) and it doesn't matter if the innovation is charged by Apple/MS or open-source - as you can be sure the others will copy and follow.
couldn't you know install OSX on the envy anyways? I mean I've seen hacks on engadget for running OSX on any intel system. Seeing as they all use the X86 processor.
I'm going to chime in and say I'm not a big fan of the apples laptops, wish you could legitimately install OSX on any set of hardware. But then you would have the same problem Microsoft does. Having to support tons of different hardware with mediocre results, causing errors and other problems. Thats apples thing, not a bunch of third party applications and hardware to mess up the OS. Of course Microsoft has other issues besides that but those are the big ones that Apple avoids by just staying proprietary. It's a catch 22, fewer games and specialized apps, or more bugs and security flaws caused by third party drivers and software.
But yeah I use ubuntu on a Compaq 6710b and I like it better than the mac book that I have at home. I also don't think I could join a cult of people who blindly like a system. I also run a couple xp machines, one for developing on and my other laptop to do development and work on.
based on the VooDoopc.com specs, the only difference is......
VooDoo has express card slot and HDMI out, plus windows(ugh)
while the MBA has Longer battery life, lower wieght, PATA instead of SATA, and thinner, plus OS X
everything else is the same
you can clearly tell that they are made for two completely different puroses so i dont think they should ever be compared
Its like comparing a pickup truck to a subcompact
someone looking to buy a voodoo is looking for a gaming pc obviously, so macs are out of the question
someone loooking to buy a MBA is looking for a ultra portable and is fed up with windows, therefore they would never buy a VooDoo
so my question is, why are we comparing two computers that are meant for two completely different types of people
why wngadget, why?
Sexy, simple, i like. Voodoo is really stepping it up with their new designs.
As for windows and OSX... its a matter of preference, theres differences and advantages of each. Some are suited for different people depending on what they wish to do with it (ex: video editing is to OSX as gaming is to xp/vista)
Apple's practically running a nationwide cult for computer users that can't think for themselves. Seriously, take a look at Mac. What does it have that Windows/Linux doesn't have? A clean interface out of the box? No viruses? (bulls**t Kaspersky has already identified plenty) More organized files and directories? (HA! What a joke) No, it has better marketing and a higher price. Windows has nearly every bit of software Mac has and much more. There's no denying Mac's amazing ability to add some visual effects, a slightly "cleaner" interface, lie a bit, and call the entire damn OS simplified. All in all, Mac is fail.
And by the way, Microsoft has announced multitouch features for Windows 7.
Honestly, I could be happy with either of these... but I'd put Slackware on it!
/me ducks, as attacks rain in from Windows and OSX camps...
Honestly, I could be happy with either of these... but I'd put Slackware on it!
/me ducks, as attacks rain in from Windows and OSX camps...
I love the Envy, it feels more complete than the Air with 2 x USB, HDMI and wired network.
But I wonder - why, oh WHY this glossy screen??? This is the most stupid design fashion ever. It's a fu****g mirror!