Microsoft's
Robbie Bach feigned an uninterested yawn at
Apple's 6.9 million iPhones figure in an interview with
BusinessWeek the other day. He wasn't particularly insulting of the product, but didn't think the number means too much in the long run. "Apple had a big launch of a new product, and they launched at scale in a lot of new countries with a lot of new [wireless] operators. This quarter, RIM is having its big launch, and at some point we'll have our big launch. We'll have to see where things normalize." While that statement is encouraging for the fact that it semi-implies that
Windows Mobile 7 is supposed to be released at "some point," we're not sure we're picking up what Robbie is putting down -- 6.9 million of a single device seems to imply a bit more than "launch buzz." Things devolved quickly when Bach started spouting about how carriers want a balanced ecosystem. That may be true, but consumers are the ones that buy the phones, and if their RAZR buying habits are any indication, "ecosystem" isn't their top priority.
[Via
Electronista]
posted Oct 24th 2008 9:08AM
Jealous much?
Just a bit.
I don't see jealously.
I mean, is there anything he said there that wasn't true, or particularly insulting?
Maybe for Apple fans he wasn't laudatory enough in their minds, but compared to the rude, arrogant stuff that comes from Steve Jobs, this is a nothing story, here for no other reason than to start a flame war.
Actually, in a sense, he is correct, and Apple would be the first to agree with him. The fact is that Apple and Microsoft have a symbiotic relationship. Apple's (per Jobs') philosophy is to be the elite, the cream of the crop, the avant-garde, and of course, with a price to match. For that to be possible, you need to have a baseline for Apple to be superior to. Microsoft supplies that baseline--the klunky, clumsy, oafish competitor who tends to the unwashed multitude with "good enough" utility and low prices. To put it succinctly, Apple's well-being depends on a Microsoft, just as Microsoft's aspiration (to emulate) depends on an Apple. Apple will never overtake Microsoft in market share, because that would mean the end of Apple's superiority. You cannot be superior when you are in the majority.
The equilibrium has served well enough when the computing universe has only APL and MSFT. Now that mobile computing is getting more interest, Google with its Android will make things more interesting.
Jealous on the scale of Hillary Clinton.
@d00b
That's the saddest thing I've read.
You've put too much thought and wasted too much time thinking of that and writing that.
Microsoft aspires to be like Apple? The elite cream-of-the-crop Apple supporters? Let's not turn this into an iPhone/Apple circle jerk please.
His exact quote also includes, "Don’t get me wrong, the iPhone is a cool device. But it’s not about choice.” ...so, no. Microsoft is not jealous.
If you take the quotes in context, he's saying that the iPhone fits a specific market and you'd have to look at the broader picture to see where it fits. For example, is it replacing business devices like Blackberries and Windows Mobile devices or are consumers just upgrading from their old regular cell phones. He's saying that it will take a while to get the full picture because it's too early to say. ...in business, a trend isn't always a long-term sustainable outlook (think stock market and oil prices dropping by half over a month's time).
Has Engadget ever heard of a company called Nokia? It's N95 handset has sold 10++ million units. Unfortunately that model doesn't have a logo of a fruit in it.
@ huihai,
err...it's 6.9M in just months.
yeah u read it right. 6.9M of iPhone 3G alone.
Ah, you missed my point. I know that iPhone has sold 13 million units in total after its release last year. Just saying that this specific last years model from Nokia has sold more than the iPhone. This is not a competition between the models or firms, since Apple is a great niche producer while Nokia has gone for the mass market and controls 39% of the whole market.
Just saying that I haven't heard any praise for N95 sales figures from engadget, in fact, I haven't heard anything constructive regarding Nokia. Yep, maybe I shouldn't except fair treatment for all.
Ecosystem my left nut.
At the store I work at, I'm the go-to tech head and I get a lot of our customers asking me a bunch of random things. "Can I replace this hard drive?" or "What do you think of this phone?" are the common ones. In respect to phones... people - as in the person that is actually going to buy the phone, and pay the contract, and use the service, and run up overages, and sell non-vital organs to pay grossly ridiculous bills - generally couldn't give less of a shit about ecosystem. The large majority of them are of the mindset "It's the iPhone!" and the other portion are of the mindset "I'm a businessperson, I MUST HAVE A BLACKBERRY!" There isn't a care in the world about software ecosystem because the man on the street doesn't know jack shit about software.
The iPhone looks pretty. The Blackberry has push email. Let's face it people, there are cliques that must be conformed to - ecosystem be damned.
The iPhone has push mail too. Just so you know.
I know.
But that if that is what you are focused on, then you missed the point.
I wasn't trying to disparage the iPhone at all, I was simply stating the common person's thoughts when buying an iPhone. The person that is buying an iPhone, more often then not, doesn't care about Push email - they care about having the iPhone, for whatever that may mean. Similarly, the person buying the Blackberry generally cares about being able to have an essential on-the-road, at-my-fingertips office. I'm not saying that the iPhone cannot function in that Blackberry place or vice-versa, and I suppose you can say I'm stereotyping, but it holds true.
The point I was trying to make is this: Neither the iPhone user or the Blackberry user cares about ecosystem. iPhone users have the app store, but the average person would survive without it (think: someone that doesn't read engadget)... we're the minority: the group that knows about jailbreaking and closed-source. The man-on-the-street sees a status symbol. A similar concept applies to the Blackberry.
Actually no, iPhone does not have push email. It was released as an update with much fanfare only to be retracted by Apple because it didn't work. To my knowledge it still does not work properly. I ended up turning it off because I figure why waste resources on something that doesn't work.
Apple retracted push for Mac OS mobileme only. It's still push on the iPhone and it works well.
So it works with Exchange? That's a plus.
I couldn't agree more.
Very good point. I think Microsoft has a big problem in the way it's approaching things. No one cares about a balanced ecosystem, no one even knows what the hell that means! All most people know is the iPhone is the thing to have now, and it isn't because it's a great phone. Apple is winning here because they've successfully marketed their products as fashion accessories and have established a kind of massive niche. Microsoft also neglects the nostalgia factor. Well to do people who have been in the tech sector for a long time have gone through a lot with Apple and still just "don't feel right" about using another product when there's an Apple one to buy.
My message to Microsoft is: Stop being a fricken' Vulcan. Logic and consumer purchase preference have nothing to do with each other.
That's a fair assessment, Valicore.
iPhone doesn't have to be a great phone, just decent enough on a decent enough network. It has a nice PMP with a nice screen and good storage size. And it's highly pocketable. But Apple would never have sold as many as they did if it totally sucked. It does most things fine and some things well, plus it has the high cool factor. People want to touch it. It certainly isn't perfect or even close.
Look, Microsoft controls the desktop market. Nothing is going to change that anytime soon. But if Microsoft wants to cultivate a cool image they have a long way to go. So far they're clueless and Ballmer, king of uncool isn't helping one bit. Sure, the Zune looks like an awesome player and can do wonders for MS's cool factor but their ad campaign sucks. They could take a few pointers from Apple on how to market their image. Jobs is a master at it.
I guess that Engadget missed the memo.. Microsoft Reports Record First-Quarter Revenue..and can bash./say whatever the fuck they want with a market cap (202B) bigger that Apple (87B) and Google's (110B) combine!
So I assume Engadget is going to embargo this until 10:00PM EST, like they have done everytime Microsoft reports earnings?
Ah Ike and fred, Engadget's lovable resident Microsoft PR duo. Buck up campers - Microsoft may not get any media or customer love, but you always have market share to add a rainbow to your rainy day!
And remember what Lord Ballmer said: iPhone will never get any significant market share. So relax!
maybe you didn't get the memo... MS growth in profit year over year.. 2%... apple's 29%... apple exceeded the streets expections... MS didn't..
10 years ago apple was in a bad way and Michael Dell's advice to Jobs to just close up shop and give money back to investors... today Apple is 3x the market cap of Dell and has enough cash on hand to literally buy Dell outright and have change left over (25B and Dell is worth 23B).. how does that crow taste Mr. Dell?
apple has larger market cap than IBM, Intel and is approaching cisco and google and is almost half of MS... that's quite something for a company that was being told to just close it's doors and give up 10 years ago...
bottom line is that MS is plateauing and apple is growing in leaps and bound... need to look at trends, momentum... don't be like Michael Dell... unless you really like the taste of crow... now we know for that MS can only succeed when it's abusing it monopoly.. take that away and it's just another company... and is likely going down since they don't really know how to innovate.
Microsoft operates in way more markets than Apple. Besides, do you even know what market cap is?
- Higher market cap doesn't mean better products
- Market cap is very volatile
- Growth and profit are what count. Google's is still one of the hottest stock options around, and Apple have grown enormously over the past few years. They're on an upwards path. Microsoft is paying $300M in advertising just to keep its business as it is.
If you want to deny that Apple is successful, look at the facts:
- Mac market share growing
- Safari market share growing
- WebKit wildly successful. Engine of choice on mobile devices and for Google's own browser (how long before they stop dropping cash to fund Mozilla?)
- iPod #1 PMP for nearly a decade, by a huge margin
- Number 3 mobile phone maker, despite only being in the market for 2 years and having 1 phone on 1 carrier
- Soon to have a fully 64-bit OSX with a transparent switch for consumers that begun years ago (have you tried Windows x64 lately?)
- Fastest growing retail chain of any kind, worldwide
- $1M a day in App Store sales. Copied by all mobile platforms, despite being ridiculed early on.
- $20Bn cash in the bank. Saving for one massive binge.
Yes, you're right. Apple is clearly doing everything wrong. I'm not an Apple fanboy, but anybody with even half a brain knows that they're successful. They're nigh-unstoppable right now.
@KarlW
So in essence discount everything MS does so you can keep up the line that ONLY Apple does well. Cute.
@doctorspoc
Actually MS did exceed Wall Street's expectations - revenues of $15.1bn, ahead of the $14.8bn expected by analysts, with earnings per share of 48 cents, in line or ahead of estimates of 47-48 cents.
As for iPhone sales, anyone who thinks 6.9 million 3G sales in two and a half months isn't impressive is an idiot, however anyone who thinks that sales rate will continue is also an idiot. The iPhone 3G - impressive product that it is - is but one product which, because of it's high subsidy rate (did anyone else have a giggle at AT%T's figures and just how much they had to take it up the arse from Steve and Co to have sole rights to the iPhone?), will have a pretty fixed lifecycle point of 18 months or so. Apple will ramp up sales again when they release in their remaining markets but once that's done it's done.
But it's kind of true.
Do you think Apple can sustain these kind of figures? Sooner or later everyone who fell for the hype and marketing will have one.
I seem to recall that's the same thing people said about the iPod. The first couple of years of million unit sales were a fluke. It was a passing fad. Sooner or later there won't be any more market because it'll be saturated.
It's 2008. 7 years after the first iPod, and they're at 70% market share still.
It couldn't possibly be that there's some substance to a device like the iPod or the iPhone that attract people to it.
That's what I'm thinking too - what he said was the simple truth. Yes, it was a successful start, but on a global scale, 6.9 million handsets are still not *that* breathtaking, and similar numbers have been achieved by other companies as well, multiple times, with similarly expensive devices.
I don't quite get why half the internet blogged about that statement today, usually with headlines as silly as the one Engadget chose?
Yes, but the mp3 market is much easier to cater to. A device with a slick UI that can play music? That's what *everyone* wants. The phone market is a lot more diverse, different people want different thing.
Do you really believe it is hype? One thing that MS forgets to realize is that there are still some people on 2 year contracts with other carriers just waiting to switch without paying a fee. I picked one up the day after my Verizon contract expired last week and could not be happier with it.
You forget that the MP3 market was but a fledgling market at the time of the iPod, so to gain a strong foothold early-on ensured growth. But phones have been around a long time, and though I give props to Apple for making a great interface, they entered an already intensely competitive market. Google has answered with a more open OS, WinMo7 could have some good features (I haven't seen them, so I won't comment) and now the competition is even fiercer. I do think iPhone sales will continue to grow, but they will not dominate the market like the iPod, especially with the G1 out now and the slew of Android and WinMo phones that are to come.
As for Microsoft, if they can get their new OS into a phone that is sleek, it will sell. That's all there is to it, really.
"Sooner or later everyone who fell for the hype and marketing will have one."
Everyone who fell for the hype and marketing of Windows sooner or later had one. How did that turn out, business-wise?
Engadget was the same place that bashed the SPINN for not having an ecosystem.
Good luck being coherent, guys.
Different ecosystems.
Bach is talking about how it's in the carriers best interest to have a balance of powers among handset manufacturers (an "ecosystem"), so that carriers like AT&T can keep them in their place and load crappy software on them, charge for GPS and disable important hardware features. Apple upsets that balance.
What the SPINN lacks in ecosystem is software / content partnerships to make the device viable for viewing legal content.
Microsoft should be ashamed of their efforts in that space. Pocket PC is a joke. It's really an embarrassment. iPhone's software is ten years ahead of PocketPC.
I could care less about Apple, I'm not a fan of the Apple Tax, but seriously, is Pocket PC the best that the behemoth Microsoft could come up with?
I guess we need to wait for version 7 of both their windows platforms...seems like good thing are coming.
Well more WinMo phones are beeing sold than iPhones worldwide..so MS couldn't care less about what a bunch of apple fanboys can say. BTW where's my MMS, copy/paste, fully functional GPS, tethering, etccc ?? Oh mighty Steviiee Joobbs
Pocket PC wasn't designed to work an an entertainment device in you pocket. They are PDAs meant for less recreational things that so happen that people put more entertainment centered software on it. Apple obviously made their phone for more than that. Whatever.
Windows Mobile 7 will see if Pocket PCs are going to keep in that direction or do something new.
I don't care about Apple or Microsoft. I don't own either platform. I have a company assigned Blackberry. I've dabbled with all three platforms due to my job. And I'm just pointing out how terribly behind the times Microsoft is with respect to their mobile platforms. I hope 7 changes everything. It just amazes me, the worlds biggest software company is so far behind.
"Ike Turner @ Oct 24th 2008 9:32AM
Well more WinMo phones are beeing sold than iPhones worldwide..so MS couldn't care less about what a bunch of apple fanboys can say."
You're right about WinMo sales I'm sure, but I don't believe for one minute that Microsoft doesn't care about what Apple fanboys say. They've as much as indicated that they do many, many times.
1. Just because Apple can make a cute interface doesn't make it light years ahead of anything. Microsoft has admitted that they concentrated on functions of the OS and not so much on using those functions. I have the M2D on my HTC TyTN II (much like the new HTC 3D interface on there new phones) and it is much more usable then the iPhones; though once you get past the interface admittedly, it is still WM6. I played with the iPhone and used a trial of an iPhone skin, and if you have a lot of applications you have screen after screen of icons only in some kind of self organization. Where is on the HTC interface you slide to what the main function you want, apps. weather, internet, and then go from there. I think it is much more streamlined. If the leaked photos of WM7 are true, they are going to have a similar system, but navigation through and through will be finger friendly and more user friendly.
2. Because MS spent most of its time figuring out what people need in a business phone / mobile organizer, WM 6 is light years ahead of the iPhone. Most of the faults people find in the iPhone are functions you have in most other smart phones for years. The fact that my crappy Toshiba WM PDA could *gasp* cut and paste eight years ago just makes the fact that the iPhone can’t that much more ridiculous. No my good friend, iPhone put a prety face and a nice browser on a device and forgot a heap of functions that have been around for years. Microsoft has it easy, they have the functionality, now all they need to do is streamline that bad boy.
3. Its the applications that make WM my choice (and used to be Palm). Drinking beer from my phone is cool and all, but the plethora of software available for my phone puts the iPhone app. store to shame. Sure there is one place to go for the iPhone apps. that is conveniently accessed. One, locked down, over controlled, innovation stomping place to get your iPhone lighter.
4. I do think this is the future, and I am stoked. Microsoft will work with HTC and others to bring there surface technology to a phone size and then all your capacitive and resistive touchy feely screens will be old news. The fact that MS has this technology alredy puts them in a good lead to be first to bring this to a phone. Finger friendly? Yes. Styless friendly? Yes. Multi touch you ask? Yes. I wont go on to what you could do with an optical touch screen on a phone, but just give it a try yourself, it is awesome.
FRED- seriously. Are you not listening to Balmer, are not reading the marketing. My first Ipaq played media and attempted to replicate all I could do on my desktop in a mobile environment. It was/is widely touted as a comprehensive platform. You are in a parallel dimension called denial.
What, too long?
i still prefer winmo but xcrunk's right. it's pretty sad that they're on v6 and this is the state of the os. they should be way more advanced than they are. but it's just like the browser. now that apple and google are in the game, ms needs to wake up.
@ ANDRIOD
the problem is that regardless of how many and how more functions a phone may have if people can't use them easily and the way they want to they are essentially useless.
apple did it the other way around.. realized the actual human being need to use these things and are the one that are paying for them so make the platform incredible easy and usable and add feature later... MS painted themselves into a corner.. they made a UI that is hard to use... you can't just transform a desktop GUI into one for handheld... that's just stupid and make people pull out a stylus to do everything... business users might put up with this but the wider consumer market will not...
MS's problem is that they went full bore for the business market not realizing that the wider consumer market is MUCH larger and much more lucrative.. but you have to make a UI that they can and will deal with and make it fun and easy to use
functions, smunction... you have to get the GUI and the platform right before you start concentrating on adding every function under the sun
@doctorSpoc
No arguments there. I was trying to get across that MS did fail with the interface, and I put off using WM for years, until I realized that Palm was just not going to give me anything new except colors.
My point is that they both fail.
MS was relaxed because they didnt see any real threat until the iPhone; but if Microsoft delivers on what I have read on what is to come with WM7, then Apple, RIM, and Google amongst others wont have the excuse of, well we dont sync with this, we cant cut and paste, etc, but at least we look and feel cooler than Windows Mobile.
Sorry
Typical Microsoft, they are being ignorant. If they were smart they would be putting software on it, make an office program for it or something instead of ignoring it and making stupid comments like that.
Look at the nice little logo on the left http://www.apple.com/iphone/ Microsoft Exchange!
MS is already making money on each iPhone sold...
To be honest, I'd prefer to see Microsoft as far away from the iPhone as possible for the simple reason that their usual business practice is to release a hobbled version of an application, then point at it and laugh. Brad Brooks's comments a couple of weeks ago on the Apple Tax is a wonderful demonstration of this since he describes Office:mac as a "stripped-down versions that don't have nearly the amount of features, or the usability like the ribbon on Office". And who makes Office:mac? Nice, Brad, real nice.
I'd much prefer to see companies developing for the iPhone (or any other platform, for that matter) who don't have a conflict of interests.
I will note, since perhaps my last comment doesn't show it, that I have a lot of respect for the Mac Business Unit and the work that they manage to do in a company where their success surely is not desired. Brad made note that the Office:mac version of MS Office is inferior because it doesn't include the Ribbon but oddly neglected to mention that this was done intentionally because no one actually likes the Ribbon and MBU heard this feedback loud and clear. The MBU could, no doubt, produce good software for the iPhone but I suspect that they will be forced to cripple it versus the software available for Windows Mobile.
@Kelmon : Like Apple doesn't cripple iTunes for Windows? I've used iTunes on Windows and OS X, and the Windows version is really horrible, while the OS X version is much more nicer. Safari for Windows first came out with a lot of bugs, and still isn't even a decent desktop browser.
I think you're also stretching it a bit by saying "no one actually likes the Ribbon". I know a LOT of people who love the Ribbon interface. Those that can't except change or even try getting used to a different type of interface are that ones that don't like it. The visual layout, and the placement of commands into tabs make it easy to use. It's so logical, that I find it hard to believe someone would hate it.
There's a world of difference between purposefully crippling an application and simply not making a good version. I do not know what the reason is why iTunes does not work well for Windows but I am 100% certain that it is not on purpose. Certainly you don't hear Apple telling reporters that iTunes for Windows is worse than iTunes for OS X and that people should buy the Mac version for a better experience. Producing bad software for Windows is hardly likely to encourage people to switch to the Mac, is it?
And, no, no one likes the Ribbon. Seriously. The Mac Business Unit had every intention of bringing it over from Office 2007 to Office:mac 2008 but their customers told them not to. It isn't because the couldn't do it but simply because no one wanted it. And the customer is always right. Even the Windows version had to be scaled back for the release but by that time it was too late.
FYI - the principle problem with the Ribbon is simply that the Office interface has remained largely unchanged since I can remember (back with Office for Windows 3.1) and everyone knew where everything they needed was. The Ribbon had laudable goals but it fundamentally changed the interface for existing users. New users will no doubt get on with it but existing users hate it because they can't find where options now reside. Whoever changed the interface completely for Access 2007 needs to be dragged out into the street and shot.
if wm7 to be released in later 2009, I think an atom or even lower power x86 processor made xp capable phone will flood the market...
I personally can't wait to snap up whatever Microsoft is going to launch, whatever it is they are going to launch, whenever they launch it. I, like hundreds of other people, are chomping at the bit to perhaps buy a Zune integrated WinMo7 phone. Hopefully whatever it is will be built by Motorola, further insuring another 2 years of complete and utter hardware/software HELL for me.
I can has WinMo RAZR plz
Hah, I'd buy that just for the novelty!
I single-handedly just saved moto right there.
"Things devolved quickly when Bach started spouting about how carriers want a balanced ecosystem. That may be true, but consumers are the ones that buy the phones, and if their RAZR buying habits are any indication, "ecosystem" isn't their top priority."
Right. So the networks don't buy and then subsidise the handsets to sell on to their customers. Riiiiiiiiight. That'd be why manufacturers build phones with features that are designed to drive additional revenue for the network like cameras for MMS and the like. That'd be why the N81 wasn't offered by networks in the UK when it had links to Nokia's own music store built in, the networks love and demand their ecosystem be supported over here, because they have the data capacity to shift the information to make the sales possible.
Please remember, the USA is not the world, especially not when it comes to mobile phones.
Ike Turner: Get a clue, man. The lack of MMS and copy-and-paste hasn't been a problem so far, because only message board gurus think that the average consumer actually demands those features. Now, go back to your mom's basement and slap around your helium-inflated, anatomically correct "Tina" doll. Then, have a pop tart and run off to school. Cheers.
Not, appropriate.
Just because you haven't had use for it doesn't mean no one uses them.
Copy and paste is the most essential feature you can think of in a smart phone! Friend sends me a message with his address, and I can go to Google maps and find it but oh wait, I cant copy the frigging address!
Someone calls my phone, whose name is not in my address book. Now if I want to add this number in the phone book, I am not going to memorize it, I am going to C&P it!
Shall i go on......
Is there even such a thing as "average consumers" anymore?
the amount of variations in the mobile market is so high that there is a phone out there to suit pretty much anyone....its not like your granny needs push email, but she might need a simple, easy to use candybar for when some hoodies try to steal her walking stick and werthers originals.
you have jimmy mac boy who needs to be in possesion of everything emblazoned with an apple symbol, who just wants to look 1337, but never sends video messages or copy and pastes, hell he probably doesnt even phone people, but its the right phone for him.
you have the business drone, who is sitting on a tube trying to send nine hundred million emails a day, and look important whilst he wants his phone to be easy to use to do that, so he has a blackberry, or a winmo device maybe even with a stylus to look super awesome.
plus many, many more I am sure...
who cares?
its got to be about finding the right phone for however many niches there are out there, so there will never EVER be an outright "winner" in this game its just going to go on and on and on for ever with people on the tinternets constantly saying "omg, my phone is so much better" "no my phone is teh bestest"
I think on the iphone you just click on the address and it opens in Google Maps - no cut and paste required. Same with the phone number example you gave. Apple have thought about how you use the device WITHOUT cut and paste.
Y3K:NikL: I agree "copy-and-paste" should be in the iPhone, but it's not as bad as you paint it: if you get a call from a new number, you have the option to create a new contact or add it to an existing contact, effectively doing what you wanted 'copy and paste' for in that example, and it's the same for addresses in Google Maps - they can be added to contacts or create new ones.
Again, this is not to say the iPhone doesn't need 'copy and paste,' I'm just pointing out that the iPhone accommodates many of the things you would use 'copy and paste' for by providing the feature you would most need it for at that moment you're using the phone. It's not as crippled as you might think citing your examples.
Lack of copy paste on my iPhone didn't bother me for a long time. Then all of the sudden one day I found myself wanting it. It still isn't hugely critical for me, but when I want it it's a major annoyance that I don't have it. Please Apple, copy paste. We want it.
Robbie is forgetting that this is 1 SKU. How many different SKU's does RIM have? Not an apple fanboy, just sayin'......puts some perspective on it.
7 million?
Seriously, that's supposed to be an achievement? A random Nokia model sells that much, and their series only last about 2 years. Call me when the iPhone reaches at least 10% of Nokias best selling model. Which will be in 5 more million units sold.
Nokia's all time best selling model has been 1100 which has sold over 200 million units in 5 years. Almost 12 million iPhones have been sold in about 15 months or so. Considering that 1100 is one of the cheapest cell phone model sold around the globe. This figure is still impressive when you compare it with RAZR (50 million sold in 4 years). So iPhone, which is a smartphone, has sales which are comparable to best selling dumbphones. And considering the fact that for almost a year the phone was just sold in the US and Apple created acute stock shortage for couple of months to boost sales.
BTW, forget 10%, iPhones currently outsells Nokia's "best selling" smart phones and Blackberries. In both US and in Europe.
Listen - Apple are, in revenue terms, the number 3 mobile phone manufacturer in the world after 15 months selling one phone. 3rd in the world behind Nokia and Samsung - this quarter they will likely overtake Samsung. This is not a number of handsets contest but actual revenue - anyone can turn out shit $10 phones and sell them by the boatload - this is 3rd largest selling only 1 phone in the smartphone price range.
That is outstanding.
@Mark M
Oh for heaven's sake get a grasp of supply and demand!
Quoting that a company is the third biggest phone company by revenue in one quarter means nothing because the quarter reflects where that company has had it's product launch. Let's see what the average over the year is before we get out the bunting and ticker tape.
As an iPhone and Apple Powerbook owner, all I have to say is I've noticed some very heavy anti-Microsoft tone in Engadget's posts. Quit being such fanboys. BTW - I also use Vista on my work PC and it's the most stable platform I've ever used. I prefer everything about it over OS X. Fanboy sites completely succeeded in giving Vista a bad rep, for no reason other than some "brand loyalty" mumbo jumbo. I look forward to Windows 7.
No way - Vista is the biggest pile of shit ever since ME. The entire networking stack needs rewriting - have you actually tried to create an adhoc wireless network on Vista - absolutely hopeless. That combined with the overbearing security frameworks, inconsistent UI, resource requirements and API's that are so unbelievably complex and inconsistent.
Microsoft are struggling - Google for the recent discussions on the web about how they have changed the way the internal MS development teams are working together - it's truly an inditement of what a state they are in.
They are fighting competition they can no longer just buy off like they have done in the past - Google, Apple et al are taking huge chunks out of their market - this in combination with the fact that companies have woken up to the OS/Office cycle scam and have stepped off that train and you can only see a decline in their fortunes.
They have one attempt to turn it around with Windows 7 - if they f*ck up like so many of their recent projects they are in huge trouble.
Unix will win out in the end.
@Mark M
I gave you a chance in your previous post because I just assumed you were merely ignorant of economics. Now I see that you're just plain ignorant.
You're an embarrassment to the rest of us who unfortunately share the same forename as you. Please change it to 'moron' or 'fanboy' to rectify this situation.
"Sarig @ Oct 24th 2008 9:23AM
Do you think Apple can sustain these kind of figures?"
They can if they continue to have "exciting" new features in the next model. To me, the 3G wasn't it as it was perhaps the iPhone that should have been in the first place. Still, I stuck with my original iPhone because the 3G wasn't enough to get me to upgrade. What I'm looking for in a real next gen iPhone is a much better screen, better camera perhaps with video and at least 32 GB of storage. It also needs to have better battery life and faster 3G speed while maintaining the same form factor. But it will be hard to maintain that "gotta have it" factor in the face of so many other new "exciting" phones coming out from other manufacturers.
With respect, Robbie's hardly going to be suggesting that the iPhone is going to dominate the market and that Microsoft is doomed. This is a case of "putting on a brave face" and hoping that it will all go away. If you want a good opinion of something or a situation, don't bother asking a competitor.
@LaughingMan
Yeah, because it looks "pretty".
That's the substance, if you can call it that.
Whether or not Microsoft is being harsh on Apple in this instance, this news article certainly is an interesting front-pager for msn.com.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/why-the-ipod-is-doomed.aspx?GT1=33002
First they ignore you..
Then they laugh at you...
Then they fight you...
Then you win.
-M.K. Gandhi
Microsoft is at the second step...
Did you seriously just compare Mahatma Ghandi to Apple, Inc.?
The sheer arrogance and stupidity has literally left me dumbfounded.
Yes 6.9M units is not a large number on a global scale and Nokia sells boat loads of phones everyday but you guys arent comparing apples with apples (haha, no pun intended). Apple only sells one model of phone and Nokia sells how many and how long have they been selling phones? Apple entered the game less than 2 years ago and doing pretty good (In Larry's voice off of Curb). Single handedly they created change, started a revolution, made other companies switch their style up. I know touchscreen phones have been out for a while but none as finely manufactured as the iPhone. Just like their computers, Apple will never be #1 in the world or even close to it in terms of selling phones BUT they will make the phone that everybody will want to have.
Apple is a parasite company. It preys off of the consumer need for new things and shiny toys. It not only treats you like you are an idiot, but it assumes that you wont notice. As a company they are always just slightly ahead of the curve but none of their stuff is earth shattering. Which is why this guys is totally right to yawn. Apple just assumes you are too caught up in what its doing to notice that there are other people in the world and they are doing innovative things too.
I hope you are not saying that MS is doing anything innovative? If they are, or if they have ever, I want to know.
"One, locked down, over controlled, innovation stomping place to get your iPhone lighter."
LOL, so true.
"Apple will never be #1 in the world or even close to it in terms of selling phones BUT they will make the phone that everybody will want to have."
Unless that is, they don't want one. Can that thing even run two apps at once?
You have to give credit where it is due, for all sides. The iPhone is great at many things (UI being the biggest), mainly from a general consumer perspective. At the same time, other phones have had more functionality for awhile.
All that being said, this is typical corporate robo-drone PR from Bach, vaguely reminiscent of Palm's comments except this is actually AFTER a very successful first year for the iPhone. They have to downplay the competition because that's corporate mentality, even if the comments are somewhat laughable. Yes, it remains to be seen if Apple can maintain its momentum in the long run, but it has done a LOT of things right with the iPhone, and its sales have exceeded almost all expectations.
As others have pointed out, the iPOD's seven year domination is certainly no 'fluke', and while Apple's growth is at 29% Microsoft's is at 2%.
It seems to me that the company that is exciting consumers is Apple. When was the last time MS made something that really got people talking? Unless they were talking about Microsoft's bizzare Gates / Seinfeld commercials or how crappy Vista is, there is little buzz being generated by MS.
Apple wouldn't have sold as many of the newer iphones if it didn't launch at a lower price. The first iphone was very expensive because carriers didn't subsidize the costs. Now, carriers and get a bigger share of the profits, it's a good device, but won't ever get one.
Couple of reasons why i don't like apple is because one they control both hardware and software. and 2 I am Gamer. I actually prefer the blackberry over the iphone simple the fact that you can't do MMS which is lame.
If Microsoft did something that created intrest then consumers would look towards them, for example set up a another company that encourages innovation, Kill the Windows name, etc, etc. Risky but worth taking a chance. They are so large both in size and capital that they have lost their way. Their business pratice towards other companies and international standards hasn't help them either. They have a lot of enemies. Sure they well always make money than anyone else for now but the respect will never be there.
Well at leave windows mobile supposrts MMS Messaging unlike my dumb Iphone! http://iwanttosmackstevejobsintheface.com/
i'm kind of amazed at the levels of ignorance here. people might not like windows mobile because of the interface but you can damn well do everything the iphone does (and more) with it. it's not like the interface is super-tough or all that non-intuitive to work with either.
/very pleased with my unlocked bj-II on t-mobile's $6/mo edge. i can surf youtube (and any other flash site) with skyfire, while scrobbling whatever i'm currently listening to on wmp or pocket player - even have a jog wheel to scroll through my music like an ipod. i've got my gmail and my work email being pushed for free with emoze. full gps with google maps. 16gb of memory with a $50 microsd, and more when they release 32gb versions. (there's really no excuse for apple to be stuck at that amount of internal storage when it can be fit into a thumbnail sized chip - at that price!)
Apple is eating Microsoft's breakfast, lunch and dinner. Microsoft makes idle boasts with nothing to back them up. Where's the next versions of Windows Mobile and the Sidekick?
WinMo will be around for a while simply because there are a lot of smart phone manufacturers (hello, HTC) who simply have no choice but to depend on MS for their software. But considering that they're two years behind, any big splashes from MS software seems unlikely.
They say acceptance of your problem is the first step to recovery.
I left Windows Mobile because I had to reboot my phone five times a day and it didn't sync with all my iTunes movies and songs.
Apple really delivered with their smartphone and Microsoft should pay homage and realize they have some catching up to do.
I do miss Microsoft Voice Command, though.