Windows 7 Starter Edition to pave the way for $200 netbooks?
By Donald Melanson 
posted Mar 30th 2009 1:44PM
posted Mar 30th 2009 1:44PM
Microsoft still hasn't nailed down all the specifics about its much talked about Windows 7 Starter Edition, but it looks like the company is all too happy to talk up a few of the potential side effects of the OS variant, including the promise of some actual $200 netbooks by this coming holiday season. Apparently, Microsoft sees netbooks running Windows 7 Starter Edition as all but replacing current entry-level Linux-based netbooks, which it says see a "disproportionate amount of returns," although the company insists that it will still market Home Premium as the default option for most netbooks. Microsoft also says that's it's going out of its way to make Windows 7 as accommodating for netbook manufacturers as possible, adding that it has cleaned up the system tray and "made some other concessions for the OEMs to help with branding."
[Thanks, fikhl]
[Thanks, fikhl]
no mention of how it will only run 3 programs at once Engadget?
I love how at http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/27/microsoft-shows-off-snippet-of-windows-7-at-d6-reveals-multi/ you complain about Apple bashing, but then bash MS here. Does this really affect you? Does it make one damn bit of difference to you about any limitation in a Windows product? Or are you just bitching and complain about a product that you will never use to try and bash MS? Why complain about a product that brings the price of ownership down, allowing more people to get their foot in the door and it may be just what people want?
I never run more than 3 programs at a time on my Acer Aspire - Zune, IE, and mail, but I would probably upgrade to a higher version of Win7 if I bought one of these netbooks. But for others, this would be perfect for them low price on a computer that they will use for light work. But you know more and better than those who may buy this, because you are the Apple fanboy so it must be attacked even if it points out your hypocrisy.
The 3 app limit is one thing, but not being able to change the desktop background is even worse! That's hardly a premium feature!
See:
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/03/29/microsoft-drops-personalization-from-windows-7-starter-locks-wa/
I think this is actually a really good idea, if they price the starter edition low enough and make upgrading to the full version easy and economical. As long as the price of the starter edition plus an upgrade to the full version is comparable to the price of a standalone full version, then what's the big deal?
I want to say something:
Microsoft never gets it right. Microsoft fanboys will always be there to protect their beloved company.
Apple never gets it right. Apple fanboys will always be there to protect their beloved company.
Linux never gets it right. Linux fanboys will always be there to protect their beloved company.
That is all.
@John : What "company" are the Linux fanboys supposed to protect? As a matter of fact, Linux isn't even an operating system- it's just a part of one.
@John.
Win.
That is all.
@John
With about $240,000,000,000 in market cap between Apple and MS, I would argue that they both got some things right.
Why no unicorn?
@Karl
i think that was the "help with perma-branding within OS" engadget was hinting at.
@bkap:
I suppose you're trolling, but I'm sorry if I led you to believe that I wasn't aware of how Linux distributions work. I was only simplifying in order to create parallelism; a technique used by many to strengthen the point they're trying to make.
I'll call my statement artistic license, and I'll call you a douchebag. Have a nice day.
@john
you forgot to add a WHIP sound at the end of your last post :)
Anyway. reading microsft's statement about linux really ticked me off... Microsoft like Apple and intel are avery bureaucratic enterprises. I just wish google, mozilla, SUN and all the other aperrently goody goody enterprises and open-source software developers win the battle against the evil ones of the world... seriously. if google did an operating system for full feature pcs based on unix or linux (i do know linux is based on unix) id move to it. like android for pc :D, google is so popular it wouldnt have that much trouble with getting the ball going.. (just paste a small icon on google.com redirecting people to their operating system's website [like what the did with chromos, which i didnt ever download because i do like firefox to much an i think it was a bit evil of google to fight firefox])
Anyway. tho i believe windows 7 will be a great hit as in features and performance i still hate the company to much and as soon as i see a viable easy way out of it i wouldnt think it much more than twice (by way out, i mean linux getting support from all the companies that develope hardware and a few propitiatory software like games and adobe. but most importantly most hardware developers).
So go **** yourself microsoft and Viva la revo... Open-Source :)
Something I just thought of, since you are an Apple fan, why is an iPhone only able to run one app at a time perfectly fine, but when Windows runs on a scaled down device and has the capability to run 3X more applications at a time is a travesty?
@John
I really haven't met too many Microsoft fanboys. I have a Zune, I use Windows, and I don't know anybody who I would classify as a "MS fanboy" unless you're only talking about teenagers on their Xboxes. And even those few that must exist can't possibly account for the huge percentage of overall users of the products that Apple and Linux enjoy.
I think usually you're mistaking "anti Apple" fanboy for "MS fanboy."
@chispito:
I beg to differ.
If you think that the iPhone's multitasking prevention is ridiculous, yet think that a 3-application limit for a netbook is perfectly acceptable, you might be a Microsoft fanboy.
If you complain about the $250 price tag for an iPod, yet gladly throw down $250 for the Zune, you might be a Microsoft fanboy.
If you think that Apple's ads are douchey (they are), yet gladly welcome Microsoft's recent ad laden with underhanded Apple jabs and half-truths, you might be a Microsoft fanboy.
If you think that defragmenting your hard drive and installing anti-virus software are necessary to a functioning computer, you might be a Microsoft fanboy.
If you think that selling six versions of the same product is smart, you might be a Microsoft fanboy.
Most of that doesn't describe me, nor anyone I know. I don't think iPods are overpriced, I just prefer my Zune because it was the lesser of two evils, since both are very DRM-centric. I traded a slightly larger form and battery life for a bigger screen and WMA support (and arguably slightly better sound quality). Also, I hate iTunes. If I have to run proprietary software, the Zune software is far better and I believe most people who have tried both agree.
Having a strong distaste for Apple's marketing and pricing is not the same as being a Microsoft apologist.
But what if I want to open 4 applications at the same time?
Then you shouldnt get a netbook with windows 7 starter.. Simple as?
It's not strictly 3 apps at once, it can be quite a bit more.
http://community.winsupersite.com/blogs/paul/archive/2009/03/30/the-mystery-of-the-3-app-limit-in-windows-7-starter.aspx
Start one as a service?
Yeah, this is bad. MS is really shooting itself in the foot with this one. The ugliness and the 3-app limit will serve only to create a negative image of Windows, rather than to highlight the awesomeness of the full versions. I guess the idea is to keep performance as high as possible on crap hardware, but still. I'm all for multiple OS versions, but this one is just stupid.
If I "shift-click" and open another instance of the browser is that considered another "app" or is that just the same app?
If you wnat to launch 4 apps, then what you do is you open a command prompt (first thing before anything else) and enter 'C:\> write & "x:\path\to\app1" & "x:\path\to\app2" ... & "x:\path\to\appN"'. Courtesy of Paul Thurrott. Alternatively you could quickly whip up a program that does one thing: you give it the filepath of a program and it launches it. Take all of 2 minutes. You could even give it a GUI and hope that you can sell it for 5$ a pop.
Lauren would love this
they should call it windows naked
I wouldn't mind running Windows 7 on my dell mini, rather than ubuntu and trying to find different drivers to make things work properly. Even though ubuntu works just fine for surfing the net, email and chat.
Trying to find drivers for what?! Windows 7 (and Vista) installs drivers on its own for any device that has less than 4 years old hardware, if not more. Connect to the internet, run Windows Update and you are done!
@SAAD
I think he's referring to Ubuntu.
He was saying he had to find drivers for Ubuntu and that he wouldn't have to find any for windows 7...
Ops, my bad. Thanks Kevin.
I knew that something didn't make sense here.
How are people having to search for drivers for a Netbook? They're not very customizable...
@pingles
If it has USB, there are almost an infinite possible number of hardware combinations. How else do I use my animated male-making-love-to-woman usb thumbstick? or my usb fan to help cool my during the hot spring days? or a vacuum powered by usb to clear out all the cookie crumbs! Think man! Think!
On a Netbook I can't really see complaining about a stripped down OS. I think it's a fine option for those Linux-phobes out there.
M$ gets a whopping $7 for each OEM netbook license of XPHe. What will they make for each crippled W7 license they sell? I can't believe Ballmer is happy about this.
A Crippled License.
Now that's something you don't hear everyday!
I havent used linux in 5 years and didnt have any issues with it but my wife had many. People who are use to windows will stay with windows since it is what they know. Besides if you want to run one of those other systems and find new drivers all the time go for it. I bet this will clean up on the low end laptop market.
The "OEM Branding" comment worries me. That probably means more crapware/bloatware/useless Acer logos stuck where they don't belong. And OEM themepacks!
It means no wallpaper changing. According to Paul Thurrott's site, if you install Starter, the customize menu is not available.
Can you say Direct Attack agenst Linux
Cough Anti-Trust
I'm not sure... but they are still charging for Windows right? That still makes it cost "infinitely" more than linux? That means that they are not price gouging...
Also, its not like linux has a stake in desktop computing, so it's not like they would be driving any companies out of business
Unless they start giving Windows away for free or buying up all the Linux OS's (which they cannot do because if they incorporate GNU licensed code into their code, they'd be required by law to release their code as open source) I don't think they can be called for doing anti-trust practices.
Until there is a linux "company" that sells a desktop operating system that directly competes with Windows, then there will never be anti-trust lawsuits in this vein.
For now, Linux/Unix will remain as the pillars of server operating systems. They will be a continual pool of innovation and a source of knowledge for new developers and computer scientists, as well as for the old programming dinosaurs ;-)
Hard to argue that any license they still charge for is predatory or anti-competitive on a free license.
This sort of competitive response was sure to hit eventually as soon as Linux started realizing any degree of commercial success. It's how the market works. Linux still offers a full, uncrippled OS for free. But Windows now also offers a very, very cheap solution that's (arguably) a better consumer experience, but is crippled. I'd bank a fair number of people will take that crippling in favor of the ease of use and ease of compatibility.
If Linux wants to play, the devs out there must respond by simply continue focusing on the simplicity of the end user experience. (They're damn close already, IMHO. Ref: Ubuntu.) If they can ultimately trump MS on that, they still have their edge. The market feeds back on itself and the beat goes on.
If they think that Windows Starter somehow won't get a "disproportionate amount of returns" then they're out of their minds. Three applications and no personalization? That's the kind of OS you push to run in the background of an ATM machine, not something sell to consumers as a desktop OS. This is going to explode in their faces big time.
It's not a Desktop OS because get this...it's NOT going on a Desktop.
We are talking about Atom based machines here with 1 GB of RAM, 1.2 GHz processors, and 8 GB hard drives.
Granted, some users may opt to run multiple apps simultaneously, but they should know that they will likely chug on those machines anyways. Furthermore, taking into consideration the current cost of these systems, this "Starter" edition will appear to be costing users a mere $10 a pop if the rest of the hardware adds up to around $190 or so.
I mean, they are practically getting W7 for free -- of course a limited version of it (then again the entire Linux OS/experience is limiting in and of itself).
So, if SOME users don't like being limited to 3 apps on their already limited and NICHE machines (not all netbooks will feature Starter either mind you), then they can go out and purchase a Home edition of Win 7 for like $100.
But then again, the vast majority of all systems will come with such a version anyways.
Problem solved.
For one thing, I understand that MS is raising the "app cap" to 6. I know a cap of any kind at all is offensive to many, but 6 simultaneous apps--especially considering things like AV aren't counted at all--doesn't sound unreasonable. How many netbooks will run that many apps without bogging down unacceptably, anyway?
For another thing, personalization isn't exactly "mission critical". It's nice to have. Customization is a nice market feature, a lever, if you will, to help motivate people to buy a license to move up to a better version.
I can see two arguments: "But we've had customization since Win 95!" Yes, we have. These Win7 Starter licenses will be a fraction of the price that Win 95 was, though. It might not be reasonable to expect the same level of content.
The second argument runs along the lines of "well, if it's too crippled, it will encourage piracy..." Not producing a Starter edition will also either promote piracy or drive users to Linux. Providing a cheap, if de-contented, version of Windows at least keeps a volume of users on legitimate software, and begins to marginalize the pirates a bit.
The bulk of the posters on here will never even SEE Win7 Starter Edition. I don't understand what they're complaining about.
Why should any desktop app chug on anything more than a pentuim 233? there just isn't any real reason. As far as that goes our i586@166mhz win 95 PC is Still prett snappy to this day a course it would probaby croak at multitasking but the argument remains modern OSes are WAY Bloated
cb88
That's not always the case, where the OS is to be blamed for the bloat.
I mean, care to explain why Photoshop CS4 (version 11) requires a 1.8 GHz processors as well as 512MB of RAM but prefers 1GB all unto itself, whereas Photshop 7 only required a Pentium 3 (450 MHz machine) with 128 MB of RAM with 192 Preferred?
Which the quadrupling of system requirements for an app that for the most part (90+ %) in terms of functionality remains the same?
Of course Adobe aren't the only ones guilty of this.
Virtually every single dev out there has increased their system requirements.
So, to solely point the finger at MS and blame them for a bloated OS demanding more powerful hardware is disingenuous.
They are no more or no less guilty than any other developer out there.
quite true but notice as well I did say apps should not chug on a P233 :-)
anyhow I can seen certain apps only becoming possible/feasible with more speed... but the fact is bloat eats that speed for breakfast a vicious cycle it is (faster computers - more bloated OS -faster computers - more bloated OS that is....)
sure win 98 was nicer than 95 and XP nicer than them ... Vista even as a few neat features but the amount of bloat is just phenomenal considering that for the most part the world would keep ticking along just fine for the most part without anything newer than win 95 (barring computer viruses)
I guess that is why I take a liking to OSes like Haiku Aros and Linux at least they tend to combat bloat a bit instead of embracing it with open arms. Shame really that KDE4 is nearly half as bloated as Vista (pun intended on both their parts)
I would say the returns are entirely proportionate, given that MS are the ones choosing what to charge for Windows and that Linux is free by it's very nature.
Linux support however is not free. What do you think the companies that are selling Linux based books are paying for the support teams they need to have when people that have never used or not extensively used Linux call up for support on their device. If you think an incompetent user on a windows box is hard to help, just wait till you get an incompetent user on a Linux box on the line.